206

Goddammit, I hate any and all mind controlling characters. Even if they're 'good' (as good as a kind controlling fucker can be) they're still constantly invading the most private and sacred place a person can have, their very mind. And the pretence of cordiality - fucking hell, it disgusts me. I may be a hypocrite, since I think mind powers are really cool, but I hated every single one I've ever read about. Fucking hell.

Octaeon

Badass Warden!

Jan Alexander

At least now Rain isn't the only character cursed with knowledge. I'm waiting for her to start asking Rain the big questions like "How does genome sequencing work?", "How advanced is cloning technology?", and "Why didn't the eagles just fly to Mordor?".

Starless

According to Vatreece, the Majistraal likely weren't the creators of the System. It was Karum who created it and she claimed that those who came after him perverted it. Considering that the Majistraal wiped themselves out in a platinum war, that must have involved breaking the damage limit all over the world, we can assume that she was referring to them. The Watch Keepers are also one of the two offspring of the Majistraal Ascensi Guildum, with the Adventurer's Guild being the other. This should give the Warden some unique historical insight into the fall of the Majistraal and what came before. The SPQR from the ancient Roman isekais is just one example. My headcannon is currently that the delve world originally belonged to the cervidians and that ancient humans came in from Earth, while the dragons came from Wix. Or maybe even the cervidians came from another world and this is simply a nexus world, that is connected to many others. Without the System, Karum must have been an ancient cultivator who used manual soul manipulation to make his way to platinum and beyond. Then he created the System to control, automate and streamline the process. Now as for longevity and stats, Ameliah's class would be a great candidate, since she is literally a balanced stat monster. If we assume that True Jack had +40% to all stats, then Legendary Jack quadrupled that to +160%. The gold upgrade could increase that to +640% to all stats. However, one advantage that pure monoliths have is that getting their five non-monolithic stats to 10 synchronized points is very easy even with bronze accolades. And at that point you're getting 100% out of your bonus stats. So a silverplate Vivificant could theoretically have 4,590 synchronized Recovery and 1,000 synchronized Endurance from bonus stats. Basically put all of their bonus stats into their other stats. Keeping mental stats high might be important to prevent mental decay, but here's where things like Winter become interesting. We've seen examples of Winter improving learning speed, memory and even intelligence to the point where it can make animals and monsters sapient. So either Winter is the special snowflake among the seasons, or overmana, overstamina and overhealth are more powerful than most people assume. Well, overhealth can literally supercharge your regeneration. There's some speculation that overstamina can improve muscle memory and kinesthetic learning. There might be some deeper effects to those two as well. Like improving longevity. I think it's a combination of high, synchronized stats, massive regeneration pushing you into overhealth, overstamina and overmana and eventually soul manipulation. We know from Lerith Singer that external soul manipulation can be used to permanently alter the vessel. And we see this to a certain degree from all awakened who morph into something resembling their ideal shape over time. It's possible that a goldplate Lerith could sing people younger, perhaps even permanently. Too bad he's a sociopath. Let's hope that Fecht doesn't get his hands on him.

Cirvante

the evidence you can find for there not being enough essence for sustaining platinums is not there, rather the evidence points against this hypotheses in my opinion. If it was like that we would not see aging problems from gold. but the state of ageing seems to be very similar for both platinum, gold and silver. So this already seems to debunk the hypotheses. Because if it was through this would be unique to the highest ranks. And if we factor in that the Majiistraal was intelligent, I think it is reasonable to assume that they would not create a system where you would be immortal. At least not immortal in the form of having a body. It does not take a genius to see that death very much is part of life, and that it would be a disaster if you would let people become immortal.

Ole Halvorsen

My guess is that it depends. although it makes sense for recovery and endurance to be what makes you live long. I don't think a recovery monolith will have the best chance since that only works on the body not the mind. What point is there for having a perfect conditioned body and you start losing yourself through cognitive functions. Look at Vatreece for example, she is still sharp as a stick. So my guess for the class that actually has the best chance at living for long is the class Ameliah has right now. A good and balanced build. that's not to say that things like seasons or other skills could drastically impact some aspects of your yourself. Maybe even skills like accessing your soul will help mitigate it, maybe it will have a negative effect. who knows. My guess is that maybe the biggest factor could be having a strong soul. We know that many of the biggest players in this world is pretty old.

Ole Halvorsen

@FeyOne yea we saw the 'different foundations of truth' thing way back in the day when a bunch of people's personal systems switched over to using meters after Rain showed them what a meter is. I'm guessing there's a lot of """common knowledge""" that's straight up wrong, or at the very least not what the system's designers intended. Another thing related to this idea that's been bothering me is the concept of a 'mentalist'. There is nothing inherently magical or arcane about how the mind works. Things like mind controlling people, causing them to learn/forget things and sending mental messages should all be the work of a chemical mage. The phenomenon of thoughts, memories, actions, reactions, and understanding can all be broken down into how different biological processes interact with one another. As far as immortality goes, it seems like Amelia's EX boyfriend had the right idea with his biokinesis experiments.

Starless

Lavarro's destruction of the Westbridge city wall and Velika's bisection of the Fist of Progress are simply the result of the System resolving a paradox. Unstoppable force meets immovable object basically. The System takes a few seconds to calculate the strength of the attacker against the defense of the target and once one of them wins, what should have happened in those few seconds of calculation happens all at once. This is different from what the platinums and Lightbreaker do, since they seem to just overpower the damage limit with sheer numbers. Vatreece knows a lot about the world and the System, possibly more than anyone else currently alive. She also implied that the claims of the Ellish faith, that anyone can ascend to godhood at level 100, is bullshit. Whether that means that raising your cap that high before succumbing to old age is impossible, or that it straight up doesn't work that way, we don't know. I agree that to say the world is dying seems a bit overdramatic. The absence of an active administrator and lack of reprisal for breaking the damage limit does not necessarily imply deterioration of System functions or that the world itself is dying. Especially since the System is an artificial framework to streamline soul cultivation and purify chaotic essence. So from that perspective it's still working just fine. The change that Rain is bringing, aside from a technological uplifting, is a philosophical one. A great number of people working towards a common goal, without the strong dominating the weak and keeping them down. The sharing of knowledge and ressources. Free education and training. Cooperation rather than competition. Once Ascension gets to Bellost and gains access to a ranked zone with lairs and underground biomes, their growth would be incredible. Of course they should take along Officer Sana to help them identify bad actors. Even Ascension is not immune to corruption.

Cirvante

@Starless, I don't believe for a moment that the world is dying. Just because the Warden believes it to be true that doesn't mean it's true. I do think that The System is weakening, but that isn't the same thing as what she said. Likewise, it doesn't mean that the damage can't be reversed. What I got out of all of this chapter is that the people in charge of everything in the world are just as stupid and foolish in this world as in our own. The System, as Rain noted, is clearly set up to encourage people to diversify in their class selections and to work together to raise each other up. Those in power have willfully ignored the clear lessons built into the system and instead they have used their own selfishness and arrogance to justify the creation of social structures where everyone is actively encouraged to seek only their own advancement at the expense of all others. As for immortality? We don't know enough yet, but I'm willing to bet that whatever Vatreece thinks she knows about it is wrong. She has demonstrated the same foolish arrogance as Fecht in many ways, in that she presumes to be the only one who really understands things. In her mind, she is the ultimate arbiter of truth, and she doesn't even acknowledge the lies she tells herself. She has decided that certain things are true, and so they are for her, but that doesn't make them True. The scene we got several chapters ago when Lavaro shattered the unbreakable wall gives us insight into this. There was a clash of realities, a clash of truths, and one of them proved to be stronger than the other. Fecht and Vatreece are both operating on their own truths, but the foundation each of them is using is the same. Rain is busy introducing a completely different foundation for any truth. It's entirely possible that his is more in line with what the original creators of the System intended, and also that any path to immortality, (if it exist), would require having started from a different truth than the one that people like Vatreece have embraced.

FeyOne

Rain's transformation started with using strength accolades to cheat his way to 10 synchronized points of strength. Bathing his core in purified essence helped him raise his synchro faster in general and got rid of the heartburn and other side-effects of using chaos essence. I expect someone like Vatreece and Fecht, who are likely using advanced soul manipulation to raise their level cap, to know of the benefits of using purified essence. And we know that at silver, your core starts to purify essence on it's own. It stands to reason that at gold your core is overflowing with essence, explaining why leviathans can chill out on the surface and even raise the area rank around them through leaking a ton of essence, while whales can only surface for a short time. I could imagine that the surface doesn't have enough chaos essence or essence density for a platinum soul to sustain itself and that they'd need to live at Rank 25 at a minimum. Or perhaps their stats and soul power can only slow aging for so long, until it reaches a critical point where their bodies deteriorate rapidly. Still, their impending death being so close together is strange. I could imagine Vatreece already chugging restoratives for years, while Fecht just started to notice his health regeneration slowly failing. We've always kind of assumed that the system was training wheels until gold, created by the Majistraal for their trainees in the Majistraal Ascensi Guildum. But what Vatreece said about Karum predating the Majistraal, apotheosis and the slow decay of the System, without an Administrator, seems to indicate that it is more than that. She said that those who came after Karum (likely the Majistraal) perverted the System. And they did wipe each other out, likely by breaking the damage limit all over the place. And Vatreece said that while the ellish religions claim that apotheosis is possible, it has never been done before.

Cirvante

I've always enjoyed my pet theory of Fecht being an evolved vivificant to allow him to be so damn old and still appear 40. Combined with the assumption that enough recovery/overhealth means you age so slowly as to practically be immortal. Apparently, at least one of those ideas is untrue. Cause Fecht is dying. So either he's not a vivificant class (believable with the omni status), recovery and overhealth don't keep defying aging forever regardless of how high, or both. I'd assume vessels/bodies can only last so long, going off what Vatreece said. At least unless you hit the apotheosis of level 100. I'm also wondering if maybe your soul can continue to exist after the death of your body. Maybe the Majistraal figured out a way to do that, and there are some bodiless, Majistraal souls saved somewhere. Unable to do much besides exist in their own soulspace like their own version of an afterlife. Chapter 500: Rain discovers some Majistraal base where there's some incredibly old and random Majistraal scientist or lieutenant that's been in isolation in his soul and housed in some type of soul storage device for who knows how long.

Ziggy

Platinum plates, being more system than human, are probably dying because the world is dying. With the original purpose of the system yielding zero or negative results for so long, the primordial chaos no longer has the 'nutrients' necessary to sustain a platinum plate. Classes, stats, and skills don't change the essence conversion factor intrinsic to their soul. Seeing as the catalyst for Rain's physical transformation into a muscled hunk began with allowing his core to subsist on pure essence rather than chaos, it's logical to assume the physical degradation and aging of the platinum plates occurs for the same reason. Just in reverse.

Starless

Perhaps, though she called it Ascension, or attaining divinity earlier. Perhaps she believes that would give her immortality. Still, with how slowly and gracefully awakened age, it's still an interesting question. How can one use the system, be it through classes, skills, synchronization or bonus stats, to extend their natural lifespan? Boundless regeneration or resistance to aging? Perhaps even soul manipulation? Lerith the Fleshsinger might be able to use his biomancy to de-age someone. And a platinum like Fecht might be able to replicate that by manipulating his own soul and then healing his body to match it. Perhaps that's how he managed to keep looking young? But then why would he start succumbing to old age now, around the same time as Vatreece?

Cirvante

I don't think Vatreese is referring to immortality in the traditional sense you're describing. She's probably referring to the Straal's idea of immortality wherein an awakened becomes a god.

Starless

Let's talk about immortality. Vatreece said the road to immortality was closed to her. This implies that it has something to do with classes, stats and skills. She's a Mentalist, so no multipliers for physical stats, no specs in certain trees, etc. Now what stats would be most important for slowing down aging? Recovery seems like a good candidate, with Vivificants being able to heal almost any damage very quickly. However, old age causes underhealth and Vatreece is clearly at the point where she's losing more health than she can regenerate. I'm starting to think that Endurance plays a huge role as well. It doesn't just give you resistances and stamina, but also protects you from pain, discomfort and fatigue. It's possible that high enough Endurance could protect your telomeres from being damaged and so on. If that were the case, then Tortugo would be the class to take, rather than Vivificant. Or perhaps it's a mix of both, with massively stacked multipliers for health regeneration. Could be done with bonus stats, Empire of Grit and a powerful Summer. Thoughts?

Cirvante

Take-charge kinda gal, innit?

Okay, so resistance doesn't prevent discomfort, but what about endurance? It's effects include resistance to pain, hunger and tiredness. I'd imagine that high endurance works against discomfort. It was mentioned that Vivificants can regenerate from almost anything but lack the endurance to blunt the pain. Sitting on a flat axe blade with a bony ass would be mildly painful, which should be mitigated by endurance.

Cirvante

I think Vatreese knows Fetch would be interested in examining a world wanderer and set up a trap in Rain's soul. After Granny and whatever megazord the citizens combine into are dead, Fetch will probably believe there's nobody around who could realistically fight him. Once the war is over, Fetch will be the only person on the planet strong enough to breach the Warden's mental constructs, so Vatreece can be fairly certain it will be him that triggers her trap card. That's probably why she asked Rain if he's a good person. Her backup plan would essentially be leaving him the keys to the kingdom as far as who's gunna be the next potentiate.

Starless

I believe Fecht isn’t like Lavarro and drunk on his power but is trying to address the world dying in his own way through controlling everyone. Vatreece put Fecht’s plan as ‘control replaced with more control.’ But Vatreece is wise enough to know that Fecht’s Empire, were it to conquer the world, wouldn’t be a lasting solution and human nature would be its undoing. Also I believe it was mentioned that she is drinking a strong (strong enough to prefer to turn off your nerves than taste it) health potion and not a mana potion. Vatreece should still be able to regenerate mana (stamina too probably) just fine as “under health from old age” means you no longer naturally regenerate your health and in fact it is gradually decreasing. So she has to take health potions to keep her health up and buy more time. Any poisonous elements from the potion would likely be taken care of by chemical resistance and damage limit. Though the amount of health she is gradually losing will likely continue to climb (negative health “regen”) from single digits, to double digits, hundreds until she would lose her total health pool every second (assuming a person could last that long).

Conor McGroarty

Resistance prevents damage, but doesn’t inherently mean it would be comfortable. Like that time Rain used Immolation in the Essed Frost Barrow to heat up everyone while not causing damage (resistance works by allowing an element to happen until it would start doing damage and it clamps down on it).

Conor McGroarty

I believe Vatreece’s mental barrier construct isn’t limiting Rain’s ability to access or use his memories in any way but instead only defending in the case of outside mental intrusion (an unlikely event as Vatreece has killed all known ones but she is being careful). After all, it is a barrier AROUND his mind instead of partitioning and censoring parts of it. That means Rain still has access to his memories, knowledge and tech from previous just fine (though if the barrier is somehow breached, the second construct will indiscriminately shred Rain’s memories, essentially killing Rain mentally with permanent amnesia). As for the third construct, it is currently dormant until some unknown time or condition is fulfilled. My own theory for the third construct is it is a mental copy of Warden Vatreece that will wake up when Rain reaches gold or a year later when Vatreece is dead.

Conor McGroarty

The Warden is having hundreds of conversations with everyone on Temerity concurrently and she seems to make a habit of asking for permission as a courtesy excluding cases like Lavarro (heinous criminals who wouldn’t agree anyway). So she has likely asked for permission from all of them before reading whether they said yes or no. As for the mental barrier being a technique silver mentalists can have, just because something is more “basic” doesn’t make it any less powerful or effective (just look at Rain’s auras) especially since great mastery allows more flexibility of what is possible with it (like Mahria’s frost storm, Staavo’s ice bolt and such). It is certainly platinum in strength (durability and such) but since it is a technique silvers can use, it wouldn’t be apparent until some mentalist tries reading memories (not like there are any currently known mentalists capable of the feat as the Warden has been diligent). Note that I believe that mental construct (the mind shell and not the memory shredder or the third thing that I theorize is a copy of Vatreece as it was described as “sleeping”) is exclusive to memory protection so it wouldn’t be attacked and worn down unless the attacking mentalist can do mind and memory invasion. It wouldn’t bother defending from more basic mental damage the system calculates and Rain has the mana and wards to deal with those more basic attacks.

Conor McGroarty

The way I understood it, there are system protocols built to make it impossible for platinums and below to travel to other worlds (perhaps them fiddling with such things would risk damaging the world in a similar or greater way to breaking the damage limit) while the phenomenon that causes “worldwanderers” could either be natural or artificial (could also be both with some cases being natural and other cases caused by deities). On the other hand, there may or may not be system protocols to restrict incoming worldwanderers (I doubt it though as it is so rare and they have such possibility that they may not bother even if they could disrupt what seems to be a natural phenomenon). Perhaps the phenomenon of worldwanderers is even a built in system function that may add something to the world (like circulating stuff) and it just happens to bring people or creatures along sometimes. Well regardless of if it is a natural phenomenon with no grand design, an intended system meant to help with maintenance and/or the whims of deities doesn’t change that it does happen.

Conor McGroarty

With the revelations in this chapter, hopefully Rain puts some more effort into purifying things for EXP, rather than just killing everything. Vatreese and Fetch might have already given up on slowing the world's decay, but at least Rain will have a net positive impact on the world.

Starless

They've mentioned before how high resistance doesn't make things comfortable, just not actually painful. It was first brought up referencing how sleeping in the snow isn't great even with high cold resistance. It's been brought up in other small, easy to miss ways since then. Like this.

Ziggy

On the topic of warfare, some of the more sinister chemical weapons might be more effective than bullets in unranked zones. Choking agents like chlorine gas would cause someone to quickly drown in their own blood, regardless of how much damage it's actually doing. Nerve agents like Sarin would also lead to a quick death, regardless of how much 'damage' it's doing.

Starless

With the revelation that Fetch was seeking justice for the artificial limits imposed on Awakened, I'm guessing Vatreese's pain/discomfort would not be mitigated by system related effects. Some Percocet(pain), Xanax(nerves), Gabapentin(nerve pain), and Wellbutrin(depression) would probably do more for her at this point. She's also chugging mana/stamina juice from her hip flask like a damn junkie, so that probably isn't good for her health either.

Starless

Shouldn't force resistance and endurance neutralize any regular physical discomfort after a certain point?

Cirvante

The damage limit re ders them pointless on the surface. But I doubt they are unusable. Just cant surpass the limit.

chaz mars

Gotta love Vatreece musing to herself that her ass had more “cushion” when she was younger (I doubt she was thicc but considering awakening gradually maxes your aesthetic body potential based somewhat on self ideal, she likely didn’t look bad; her steel will and demeanor to scare others would probably be a larger barrier to a relationship than appearance). Now she is a Granny and quite flat.

Conor McGroarty

Been expecting this confrontation for ages; the only questions were: 1) What, exactly, motivates Vatreece? 2) Under what circumstances would the confrontation take place? After it took this long, I was expecting another 50-100 chapters and maybe a chance for Rain to turn it into a battle of attrition for mana, somehow (either due to artificial restrictions due to strategy, or whatever).

Meerschaum

Dayummmmm

Ziru

It's a shame about the quantum computing. The way Rain can separate out specific thoughts and keep then isolated from the rest of his mind would have been perfect at simulating an artificial 'vacuum' to store qubits in a way that allows them to retain their uncertainty state.

Starless

While Rain has the knowledge to push technology several centuries into the future, I think it will be quite some time before quantum computing and machine learning becomes a thing. Rain likely doesn't have any in-depth knowledge of those fields anyway. They've just figured out lightbulbs and steampower. The more dangerous knowledge in his head is actually about chemically-propelled ballistic weaponry and high explosives. Either of those can be used by unawakened to kill other unawakened or bronzeplates, like the Limit Spikers in Rellagia. While fission bombs wouldn't work in unranked zones, a machine gun would. Or sniper rifles.

Cirvante

I never though info about nukes and weapons would be of much use anyway. In this setting, the truly terrifying information would have been stuff about quantum computing, artificial intelligence, and machine learning. Einstein's mass/energy field equations, and how matter mathematically arises from virtual particles would have been kinda big, but I highly doubt Rain would know something like that. It's a shame Rain built his soul's operating system off bits (o, 1) way back in the day. If Granny Vatreese thought the internet was a lot of data, she would have got absolutely obliterated by the raw power/DDoS potential of a quantum computer.

Starless

I think those constructs she was talking about were her isolating the copy of Rain's memory she made and stuck in her own brain/soul whatever. The barrier keeps the knowledge from leaking or being easily accessible to others, and the spring blender thing shreds everything if anyone does manage to get access to it.

Gardor

This chapter reminded me of release that witch. Not sure if it was just me just a dream space world. Powerful imagation due to growing up with high levels of concentrated stimulus.

IV08004

I'm super confused about how "locked" memories will work. When Rain uses magic in "code" form won't the structures and ways code programing languages are formed be locked away? Now that all of the technologies of earth are locked away will he even be able to know the scientific principles behind: combustion, evaporation, radiation, convection, aerodynamics, fluid-dynamics, turbulence, laminar flow, magnetism, electrical charge, democracy, radio waves, etc? Or is it just the memories of why he knows these things thats locked away, as well as the pit falls and triumphs they could present? It's explained that people have experienced basic physics, but not shown that anyone understands the principles behind them. WTF is supposed to happen now that the only advantage our hero has is stripped away? I understand a nerfing after the insane power creep we'd experienced, but this seems weird.

Sdff

Can't be crossed by mortal arts was an interesting line. If the gods are selectively pulling entities from other worlds, then logically there should be some reason for doing so. Thinking about the system creation story we've heard, I'm guessing that Earthlings, Dragons, and other World Wanderers have some aspect or resource necessary to create, repair, or update the system.

Starless

Here's the thing. I think this is actually setting up Vatreece to lose to Fecht. Vatreece is ridiculous, no doubt. But she is a one trick pony. Everyone knows her strengths. If Fecht hasn't come up with a way to beat her narrow build in the past however many decades with equipment, charms, or whatever other assets his Empire has, I'll eat my hat. Plus we've pretty much only seen bronzeplates in the field so far. Fecht has to be deliberately holding back, waiting exactly for something like this to happen where Vatreece overcommits. I think that while Ascension is off on another continent, we eventually see Fecht's plans come to fruition. Vatreece dies, the Empire conquers the DKE with ease with her and most/all of the Citizens dead, long live the Potentate! Which keeps him and/or his empire as a "big bad" in the background. We haven't even seen Fecht "onscreen" yet. That kind of narrative does not bode well for the Warden in most stories.

Ziggy

So much for the no deep mind reading without permission of the Warden preached, at the moment she appeared she mind raped/readed everyone, obvious and off course it happen in hindsight "First, she wrapped Rain’s entire mind within a thought shell, like any silver Mentalist might have made, exceptional only in its strength" I dont understand this as she gave a platinum mental defense to Rain like a lot of people said in comment, for me its more like she get same construct as a silver defense (mechanisme/complexity/efficiency/strengh/other etc...) but buffed a bit in strengh (so i guess gold strengh or close to it in the end? which work very good to camouflage it with Rain strengh of soul he have, so it dont interest too much people who can detect it and it seem "normal" on Rain like a normal (if strong) mental defense placed by a mentalist and who feed on Rain strong soul After all she doesnt really care if he get mind read in the end (erasure memory and her other surprise) and if he is in this situation to get mind read , its over aniway, so dont put a Platinum level shell/mind defense who can get lot of interest of people who can detect it make a lot of sense here :)

Zarik0

Most destructive forces are bound by the damage limit. Only platinums and one or two golds can truly break it in a way that damages reality and they don't need nuclear weapons to do it. They are the weapons. And as she mentioned, there are easier ways to wipe out a city. Case in point, Rain could do it with his build. Depending on the size of the city he'd have to move a bit, but he could even surgically kill the inhabitants and leave everything else intact.

Cirvante

Antimatter. Singularities. False Vacuum. Gamma ray lasers (Don't tell Lightbreaker!). There are all sorts of concepts that could cause problems that she specifically didn't mention, only reassuring him about fission and fusion. She also didn't say anything about the whole concept of computer science and Rain's terminal interface/macros... is it really not novel or is it just a crutch for a Silverplate that's not necessary once you get more advanced?

loimprevisto

I expected her 'extreme measures' to involve hijacking powerful individuals like Lavarro, but all the Citizens? I guess they sealed their fate when they decided to use the Mantles. "Warden Vatreece joined the chat." You think they got a few seconds to appreciate just how fucked they were? Anyway, I was surprised at her comment that all the Citizens together could take out Fecht. I figured with the Citizens bound by the damage limit and Fecht not, he could stomp them with impunity. Apparently even he can be beat by sheer numbers. Or maybe she just means to wipe out his armies and leave him unable to achieve his legacy. If she could take over Lightbreaker, or even just break his mental shackles, then she might stand a chance of killing him. Alternatively, she might be able to allow her puppets to break the damage limit.

Cirvante

....well, at least he can just wait for the constructs to just fade away?

Insertusername099

I don't quite understand what game the Warden lost. Could you clarify? It was funny, yes, but I don't understand.

SecretsOfTheVoid

Fucking awesome, I really enjoy it when a god mind rapes the protagonist.

L Pedersen

>“I warned you. Also, you just lost the game.” You utter asshole. Goddamnit!!!

Philipp Gawol

She better teach him how to fix his soul like she promised. That was the deal if I remember correctly.

David Bean

Rain really is an - engine of change - the warden only wanted to meet him and then ended up mind dominating all the citizens of the dke like it was nothing. And all because rain let them know that the empire had attacked. Wonder what other changed he will bring.

James Heskett

Fixed, thanks!

SenescentSoul

Seemingly the plan for if it succeeds is for nobody to find out or remember what she has done.

SilasDrekken

Funny to see that even the greatest mentalist fails to hand over power in a controlled way. The successors are not ready, as such she won't handover power until she dies... So her successors will be learning on the job, without her advice or power to back them up. Not to mention that she will be making enemies on a scale never seen before with her last move. Regardless of if it succeeds or not.

Chymor

She's talking about the reality tears, it's the most obvious manifestation of the world(system) dying. It shouldn't let u do that, or at least punish you, but it's not. It's cuz of a lack of a System Administrator. Technically, Dozer shouldn't be possible and he's kind of in a very very small way, contributing to the destabilization of the world lmao

Aezy Ken

Stevie T? (Cars for kids) First: the warden is terrifying Second: typo: tripple --> triple Third: the warden is terrifying

Newguy Roy

Hm, are the warden and fecht the only old monsters in the world? Dont think so, but the apparently most visible two old monsters are dying at the same time, plus a whole nations leadership of golds? Guess its a time for change. Also, she never explained why she said 'the world was dying'. What was that about?

D

Karum (god of craftsman, death and such) seems to be dead as Vatreece has concluded due to system not properly punishing damage limit breaking (meaning that if the system was working properly, it shouldn’t be possible to break the damage limit with brute force or at least the offender should have suffered somehow). Vatreece said “god is dead” literally (at least anyone who can do proper coding and system maintenance). Nietzsche approves. In the wedding ceremony, it said that the System was made with El’s power while Karum actually built it following El’s command (Rain also said Karum seemed to be treated like a gopher/handyman a lot). So could essence actually be El’s power? Rain guessed that essence is the building block before other System stuff came later (Majistraal specifically). That is in line with the mythology we currently know about the System being fashioned from El’s power. Essence being divine power or what divine power is made from at its core. Rain (and us too I guess in hindsight) actually had the information necessary to conclude that the world was dying (being destroyed by rampant power use is probably more accurate): knowing essence is the building block, that making a core in your soul and purifying essence can theoretically allow you to exceed the level cap, that the modern System the Majistraal added later has increased ease of achieving great power by shortening time and allowing others to benefit from the pioneers who manually built all the skills the old fashioned way (though they made it easier to achieve good and platinum, ironically it seems there hasn’t been an Ascension for centuries, perhaps because they were too reliant on the System and couldn’t make their way through the rest of the levels manually), that breaking the damage limit opens literal cracks in reality (I dismissed this as an issue as they heal over generations but if enough happen before they heal or they are bad enough to never heal… end of the world) and finally that there is no longer any available System Administrator. All this information together (even if all but certain, Rain hasn’t personally confirmed some of this so it would require some logical leaping) would have allowed Rain to reach the same conclusion as Vatreece that the world is dying (being gradually destroyed). The only issue is that he has been to this world for maybe a year (give or take)? He lacks the context that is built up over time, especially when he spent months of that time away from civilization that would have allowed quicker building of context (maybe worldview from native perspective is more accurate?). So Vatreece is being a bit harsh and unreasonable that Rain hasn’t realized the danger in a year but I guess her being the demanding Granny she is means no excuses when she has great expectations for someone. Lots of info overall that has helped tie some things together and increased other questions as things do. Guess Rain will have to reach gold as a stopgap measure before moving onto platinum where he may be able to start addressing System issues (seizing the mantle of Administrator and coding to fix bugs). The most likely to reach platinum that we know of are Burrick the Volcano (he definitely knows about soul purifying and increasing cap that way as that set him apart from his old team) and Lightbreaker (Fecht has broken him and assuming Lightbreaker didn’t already know, Fecht may have told him how if he is a reliable legacy piece for when Fecht dies). Probably Vatreece’s successor too is high gold (was it Guardian Nex?) and would step into platinum soon. Is Wix another world after all as I was initially under the impression it was an ancient kingdom? Though I guess having it be a fairytale place (where dragons seemed to have come from) makes sense instead of it being an ancient kingdom as some expression have used Wix in a fanciful manner. Dragons as well as ancient Roman(s) coming here means this world is a nexus for other worlds (not just Earth) to have things wander in from time to time.

Conor McGroarty

So Granny Vatreece (she really is like a scary and controlling grandma you don’t want to disappoint or else) has left what seems to be three mental constructs in Rain: a platinum grade mental barrier (tinfoil hat), a spring loaded memory blender for Rain (from how it was written it seems to be indiscriminate) and something else that is very amazing as it took a lot out of Vatreece (surprise box with something sleeping in it). I personally think that Vatreece has left a dormant copy of herself in Rain’s mind that won’t be able to steal agency from Rain’s body but will be able to talk and interact with Rain. Essentially a pocket Warden/Granny that will be able to communicate and advise (nag) Rain with the sum total knowledge and life experience of the Warden up until the point of its creation. Perhaps it will only awaken when Rain makes it to gold. Or perhaps it will awaken if Rain’s barrier is pierced, memories blended and will replace him to fulfill whatever goals the Warden has as a fail safe after death. It’s a win win opportunity as the first scenario has Rain at gold and able to chat with Vatreece (maybe the construct’s longevity will be extended, achieving a lifespan that may last with Rain and sorta cheating death in some small way, if she is able to somehow trick the system into thinking she is Rain’s soul advisor that seems to be properly activated at gold as silver seems to be limited) and she will try to guide him for her goals (Rain isn’t malicious so he can be cooperative depending on what it is) while the other will have Vatreece take over and continue her goals (after dealing with the one responsible for breaching the mental barrier in this scenario and lasting as long as a mental construct can). Now the second scenario is unlikely in my opinion as Vatreece has done everything possible to remove (kill) all other mentalists who are capable of mind reading/memory extraction years ago. That means that a mentalist who achieves that level will have to do so from bronze (likely requiring a rare class that is pure mentalist like Val is Contender of Light and Mahria is Cold Mage) which means that they will be Rain’s peer in silver (at best if they have slipped under her radar) or starting below him. Considering how quick Rain’s rate of growth is, I highly doubt anyone who has stumbled across such a build would be able to match Rain’s growth unless they were carried by a gold plate (which can only help with level cap, which is Rain’s main limitation if you exclude limiting his growth to keep soul stable, and resources for equipment) and even then they have to make careful selections to not compromise the build and build up their experience themselves even if they have access to equipment to help spend more mana. Mental defenses (for memories) seem to be different from Mental damage calculated by the system (it’s the difference between core defenses and surface damage) as Vatreece has likely made them to last for years if not decades as long as they aren’t gradually worn down from constant assault. So assuming I am right and Warden Vatreece has left a mental construct of herself in Rain’s mind, I imagine Rain will be really freaked out in surprise as it will likely be after Vatreece’s own death. If Rain achieves gold before Vatreece dies with only Ascension, I bet she will be surprised (I am assuming one of the constructs activation conditions is for Rain to reach Gold or if the memory blender is activated). A possibility that has increased if Velika (joining Ascension) stays with Ascension to help raise caps (Tallheart, Ameliah, Rain, Mahria, Jamus, Carten, etc are among the higher leveled of Ascension so making them high silver then gold is most likely as a pioneer group assuming Rain doesn’t find a low silver dungeon that is conducive to farming essence monsters to raise caps across Ascension to silver before hiding it to teleport to later to love on for gold) in return for swords made assuming she isn’t tsundere about joining them long term.

Conor McGroarty

It's a brainexploding chapter.

Arhin

Man this old lady is a monster. Just waltz in a take people's memories. And there doesn't seem to be anything you can do to stop it, get powerful enough and she'll come collect you.

Louis Nel

Have you ever had a mental defense so strong even the reader of your book got it stuck in their head? *shakes fist at kars for kids commercial

Forrest Minter

She is a monster for sure and I don't disagree, but there are different types of corruption. I imagine she's talking about those other types, oppression and exploitation of the masses, greed and pride etc.

Aezy Ken

I thought of this same comparison myself, but if Vetreece really had the same personality as Taylor, she wouldn't stop at the Citizens. She'd draw in every awakened she can get her mind tendrils on.

Soundlesssteps

Oh, that's interesting. I had the opposite reaction. Rain and Ascension have become so mired in this Empire and DKE nonsense for so long now that it's just been one thing after another. The trip to another continent and what they do when they land sounds new and exciting to me. Time for Ascension to solidify their foundation and grow, and who knows what new challenges are in store? Whales at minimum, maybe some scary monster in the depths as they Delve, trouble and adventure as they visit the City of Lights... Sign me up.

Ziggy

My knee jerk reaction is to say that's absurd. Trying to actually verbalize how straight up mind rape and control is somehow less evil is when I run into problems.

Ziggy

I wonder if Granny Vatreece intends to pay a visit to High King Kev as well to leave no more platinums for now? I’m inclined to think Kev is younger and weaker than Vatreece and Fecht due to how dismissive the Warden was of him in her mind (like an old person calling another a brat). I read about a protagonist (Daniel Hillside/The Harbinger of Cataclysm) musing to himself when he did dubious “ends justify the means actions” (funnily enough, it was psychically killing these strong monstrous creatures and controlling them to fight against another group that were doing it first which is similar to what Vatreece is doing except she doesn’t need to leave them brain dead if she wants) that being in that situation and being unable to rationally choose another way is proof of his weakness. That he needs to become stronger so he has the leisure to personally sweep aside such morally wrong tactics and handle them himself. He acknowledged that what he was doing was wrong but didn’t get comfortable with it as he wants to be better and wants to strive for another way. Let’s hope Rain becomes strong enough before he is truly faced with such a moral vs practical dilemma as I don’t believe he would come through it unchanged (debatably more trauma than the obelisk did as it could twist his character).

Conor McGroarty

Finally, everyone was working together

TheWillingWriter

'even the watch is not immune to corruption, though I have done my best to root it out.' Lady, you ARE the corruption in the watch.

David Giles

Liked the chapter, but feeling a strong sense of “what now” for the story. Seems like we just got a bunch of endgame type current/near future events dropped on us (warden + fecht dying, citizens mindjacked) that rain is completely removed from. I’m sure the final meeting may not go down as clean as the warden thinks, but it feels like a lot of the drive/thrust of the story was futile and got wiped out and replaced with “don’t worry, the warden will handle it” So what now? Does rain just leave and go do slice of life silverplate stuff with ascension on another continent? Try to fix the system dying? (another what now point that just gets confirmed). Purely where we leave off the chapter, there’s no way for rain to meaningfully contribute to the current conflict so I get the sense of MC-less sudden conflict resolution, and fixing the system is such a long term goal, what is next? Interested to read on and find out what you have in mind.

Bzzt

I'm coming round to the view that Vatreece is worse than Fecht.

David Giles

the incubating baby warden kind.

Thenais

damn that was one hell of a chapter, the whole political drama just shifted

ricky jackson

A gold (or even peak silver) mentalist may be incapable of sifting through Rain’s mind in one sitting without going insane/mental death from the sheer volume and density of information eroding/diluting their very being but that doesn’t prevent them from taking small pieces over a long period of time. Something that will no longer happen with the mental barrier and memory erasing fail safe but now Rain has to become gold as soon as possible to further deter conflict from finding him (like the freaking Bank).

Conor McGroarty

Curious as to what kind of booby trap is in Rain's mind now.

MooMoo195

So it seems Granny Vatreece and Old Man Fecht are both at the ends of their rope and are both taking drastic action in their own way. Fecht cracking reality to take down the Fel Sadanis barrier and starting this whole war. Warden making many into puppets to finish him. Do you think that the chains (psychological trauma and hopeless obedience) on Lightbreaker are strong enough that he will continue directing the Empire after Fecht’s death or listening to whoever does come to power? What about high king Kev? Will Vatreece kill him too as leaving only one platinum uncontested is just asking for trouble even if he is content to play king in his mountain? Does Fecht himself have a plan when Vatreece moves (like making dozens or more Incarns and using his soul to prevent Vatreece from popping them like Rain did) or will he just make sure he takes her with him? I personally think Lightbreaker is Fecht’s backup plan to carry on his will as he should be high gold (high 60s to low 70s I guess). With Fecht and Vatreece (maybe Kev too) dead, the world will undergo another shift in dynamics. Will Rain and Ascension still have to leave this continent after all? Probably as the war would likely continue even after the chaos caused by these deaths happen. Best to head to Bellost as originally planned. It was hilarious that Rain was actually able to bring quite the challenge to Vatreece and made her struggle greatly. Though now he has a platinum mental barrier that will shred any memories the Warden has deemed problematic if it is pierced. Good news is that the odds of having it pierced before Rain becomes gold himself is low but not 0. Though now it isn’t just “old hitler with super powers” Rain has to deal with (Fecht is dead, whether from his lifespan or Vatreece first) but a world in danger of dying. Just the kind of world in need of an engine of change. Though it does seem that Granny Vatreece was impressed with industrialization and the various weapons that developed from it (not nuclear weapons though as they can’t break the damage limit and have other logistic issues). She also has to deal with a ton of modern crap now. Well she did ask for it and it can be considered something interesting to finish her life with knowing. It also seems Vatreece has parallel minds working simultaneously all the time (kinda like being really good at multitasking except that they are all separate and all of them are Vatreece at once maybe since that copy in Lavarro grumbled about themself being the imprint?). Last thing: Rain’s musing of thermae (public bath) and ancient Roman(s) isekaied turned out to be true even if they predated the Straal (their name before Majistraal most likely).

Conor McGroarty

Big chapter and big turning point in the story. It feels like a lot of things suddenly got resolved, though maybe not in the way Rain wanted. The Warden has his secrets, the DKE is suddenly no longer a major issue, and the threat of the Empire is now being taken seriously. There is still a lot to do, but it feels like Ascension might be able to slow down after this event. If the lowering of the shield and escape felt like the end of the first major arc, this feels like the potential end of the second. I am curious about how Velika will handle all this. She is no longer on the run and absolutely owes Rain. It wouldn't surprise me if Rain could further weaponize his memory to overload other mentalists. The Warden is Platinum and even she was overwhelmed by his information, a Gold wouldn't stand a chance.

Thransk

I got a borg queen vibe from the old lady

Darune Albane

Oof that was better and worse than it could have been.

Alexander Dupree

That's not at all totally terrifying... yikes!!

Mike G.

Ummm.... Holy shit she is so much more terrifying than I thought possible. It seems downright unfair which, being honest, seems like the point. I love how the best defense Rain has wasn't the pain memory but the fact that he was himself and MEMES lol. With this meeting I think there's a lot of interesting new perspective for the absolute nature of power in this world as well as the fact that this story was actually a secret wuxia Isekai all along.

JC Silver

She built a spring loaded trap to shred his mind to my (mis?)understanding

seth dauer

Well. Fuck. That's terrifying. Now there are two platinums in direct opposition that have decided, "Eh I'm dying. Let's go out with a bang." Now's a great time to bail on that continent, thank you very much. I was wondering if they knew how to make nukes considering the abilities of alchemists. The added detail that both fusion and fission don't even work at the base damage limit is cool, I like it.

Ziggy

Err...so she is doing a time delayed murder? What's with the trap and talking about restructuring mental defenses?

seth dauer

Holy shit.

Fabhar

good vacations

Thenais

Thanks for the chapter! 🥳

Cjack PVP