Sharing my work

I have to confess, I too saw the game there and came here to support also!

Jamie Walker

Glad to see people popping up from that ;D

DyneWulf

I know this post is a little old, but I felt the need to say that I never would have found this game without that board. Had no idea it was on Patreon and as soon as I get the funds, I'll see about supporting the project!

CallMePurple

Great to hear! Glad to see that the word spreads around, and that you've enjoyed it! I hnow there are some people that can't pledge, so I will be doing more to update the public version at least monthly now.

DyneWulf

I actually discovered this game yesterday through a friend on Discord. Decided to play the public demo to see what it was about and quickly became a fan of this pretty much after finishing one of the routes. I do want to support you and I'm planning to become a Patron very soon. However, I don't have money to pledge yet at the moment. Once I do have some, I'll pledge - No doubt about that! :) I've read a few comments here in this post and I have to agree on some things. People who aren't Patrons yet could have access to a certain limited amount of days in the public demo, and Patrons have a few more "days" in advance. It feels more fair that way, I think. Either way, I am going to support this regardless of what you decide is best for this project of yours. Keep up the good work! :)

Blueferreira

you'll always have my support for this current project and anything else that clever head of yours can come up with!

Coltyn91

Awesome, As long as you are happy with the results I have no reason to fault it. Keep up the great work!

BadTech Games

True, it is hard to define the line of what is allowable under copyright law (it's vague at best) and when you consider fan art/fan fiction it gets even more convoluted, and yeah it has become more about making money than protecting the interests of the original owner[s]. And you make a good point about accountability, the further that people can distance themselves form something the more comfortable they feel doing it especially when it could be considered morally questionable. On a more positive note, it seems that this whole issue has been largely positive in drawing in more support for EA so maybe it isn't as black and white as it appears on the surface.

Richard

If Steam didn't have a ban on adult content, I'd suggest posting it there. You really need some kind of online auth if you actually want to enforce this. ...relatedly, it occurs to me that "yiff-party" having done this is ironic, in that EA doesn't actually contain any serious yiff. (Yet. Whenever that picture Darius sends you stops being a placeholder, now...)

Regonoreth

It really would be too much effort in my opinion to stop it at this point. The only thing I'll add is you should probably see this as a warning to take extra precautions when you do put the final product out for people who actually paid for it. I'd recommend something along the lines of a person's personal email address being used as the password to access the final product.

Mark

Haha, yeah, I can't stop it x3 Well, thanks for coming along to show your support for the project as well! It really means a lot to me! I'll be doing more for the public one in the future too!

DyneWulf

My public one is a little outdated, so I think that's also a problem I'm seeing, so I'll have to make sure to update that one a little more frequently than what I've been doing. Spirits are just as high now as they were, considering I've seen a lot of support come out of it too!

DyneWulf

That's great! Thanks :D

DyneWulf

So far, the only thing that's happened has been positive!

DyneWulf

Given the artist, I'm sure it would be a sexy hot dog costume. (And although my brain is failing to figure out how that would work, it *would* lend itself to many off-color puns...) But nah. :)

Regonoreth

He's doing that already; it's just that due to Patreon's wacko interface you can only see the free two-versions-behind download if you're not a patron or are logged out.

Regonoreth

I have to keep reminding myself of time zones to know that by "tomorrow" you meant Monday *sigh* when I am at work

Dkrewe

oh, Okay i get what your saying now. I guess i thought you were saying fun ideas/input=bad. I just misunderstood you. My bad. And yeah, i think i can agree with you there on not wanting more reward tiers that let anyone alter the story to their desire, because some people are real powertrippers that will disregard the creators vision and want the story to go the way they want, but at the same time i feel nobody has made unreasonable request with the 50$ reward.( actually forgot the details of that reward) As a matter of fact i really liked Troy's overalls idea. (OH PLEASE THOUGH DON'T DROP 50$ DOLLARS AND FORCE US TO LOOK AT A STUPID HOT DOG COSTUME) jk of course.

Eric

Add me to the list that found out about this from u18chan. (and started to support it.) I don't think you should worry too much about it leaking. As it is likely to do so anyway. :-/ But there are quite a few other visual novels that release the update publicly and have good support behind them. Likely because they have folks that see it like I do. As a tip jar and hoping it helps with the motivation to finish the project. (Edit: Just bumped up my pledge a level too.) :-)

Unfortunately , its very common to patreon works leaks into some websites. On other hand, it also helps spread about your project as well, as more people have access to your project and come to know it (and even support it). Since preventing that your works leaks in the internet is kinda impossible, what I would suggest is that you give public access to older versions, maybe one or two versions older than the actual. That way, supporting patreons still have exclusive content, and if your project has to leak, at least you are offering it from the source. Of course, you have to feel confortable about it. I hope that leak don't hurt your patreon project or your spirit on working on it! Heads up and good luck!

Brooding

Eric: He himself is doing the compulsion--that's what the $50 (and $80, while it existed) tier is: "You give me an outfit/character and I will put it in the VN." I can suggest in comments all I want that Coach should wear a hot dog costume; DW's obliged to actually do that at some point if and only if I also throw down $50 and tick the reward checkbox. There's negotiation involved and the hot dog specifically might be altered or nixed, but having that reward tier still creates an obligation to use patron input under certain circumstances. Of course, this sort of thing can easily diffuse the story and create more work; the $80 character creation tier was already dropped because it was getting unwieldy, and I expect we'll see the $50 drop too if there are ever more than three patrons in it. Which is why I don't necessarily favor adding more tiers like this. In contrast, Blackgate's tiers are almost all compulsive patron input--from "vote on what progresses next" to "create an ending" to "create a major character". I am unsure what effect this has had on their story. > "nobody is forcing DyneWulf to use patron ideas" For everything else, this is the case. As you mention, I am frequently giving all sorts of offhand input and feedback comments, with no expectation that any of them be picked up, but just because it's fun to talk about. :)

Regonoreth

I first got a version from u18chan then started supporting it so :3

Atmot

You know Regonoreth nobody is forcing DyneWulf to use patron ideas. If he does not think it will be beneficial to the VN then i doubt he would add it. I also doubt he feels compelled to use are ideas either. And technically you have given input to this VN as well. Wow i sound like a total dick right now. Just saying i enjoy giving input, But if one day DyneWulf says he no longer wants are input than i can respect that.

Eric

Lol sorry XD I didn't realize there was one. I'm an airhead lol

Green-buns

Dragons >>>>>>>> princesses. Much smexier :3

Dkrewe

Yeah, I would jump on that right away. You already have a demo out. Leaking the latest build is uncalled for and may affect your support if it keeps up. Im sorry someone was so selfish they did that to you

BadTech Games

I make Margaritas weekly >.> And I'll be saving the dragons over the princesses!

DyneWulf

Not a bad idea. I should check in to that!

DyneWulf

Well, I knew about it since the day it was posted ;3 I was pretty pleased to see it there!

DyneWulf

And thank you for your support!

DyneWulf

It certainly is! As it's been said before, it has a silver lining ;3

DyneWulf

I have to admit that I discovered this game through u18chan boards, and after I played it that I decided to become a patron to help as I can so you can keep working on the game. I know it must be disappointing to see your work being shared for free but at least it's another way to make more people learn about this awesome game!!

David Drake

Thank you for that support :D

DyneWulf

Well, I'm not a patron, not because I don't want to but because of reasons. But I like to support stuff I like any way I can so I was and still am planning to pay for the full game when it's complete, even if it's leaked or not.

Beast

Thank you for that :3 It really helps tremendously!

DyneWulf

I think that it was wrong of them to post your content like that but regardless of wether or not its free I plan on supporting you. this is your way of paying your bills and living your life and I would hate to stop helping just bc the content is out their for free. keep up the good work.

Rednecktexan

HAha, that's what my demo build was! It was through Day 7 with everyone, and all I could do with Dozer and Darius

DyneWulf

Annnd I hit enter early. - World info and other stuff like that could be neat. Perhaps I'll share pages from my notebook when I sit down to come up with ideas. Those tend to be really messy and maybe interesting! And I think I'm really gonna stick with how I've been doing it in the end. I'll stick to my normal updates and such, but I'll update the for everyone demo a little more often, perhaps ;D

DyneWulf

i could see releasing a build thats several updated behind or that only goes to, say day 5 for each character as a demo build?

Green-buns

"Whoa, did you see that colon placement, Kent?" "Indeed I did. A daring departure from normal conventions." "How do you think it'll affect the program endgame? "Hard to say, Fred. In the 2014 Visual Novel Bowl a programmer made a similar placement right before sweeping all his competition off the table, but the next year no one was able to duplicate..." "Holy mackerel, do you see that? He's using a jump statement!" "A conditional jump, to be exact. A bold play this late in the version." "Oh man, I cannot wait to see what's on the other side. But what's this? His artist is calling for a time-out! Looks like it'll be a while before we see the resolution. So stay tuned folks, and we'll be right back after a few words from our sponsors."

Regonoreth

I've ended up coming to terms with it happened and have cooled off since I first found it. I was really irritated to begin with, but not it's like... I knew it would happen at some point or another, and it can't really be avoided. People will find ways to do this regardless! Streaming is definitely out on that, cause yeah, watching me do that is... mind-numbingly boring, I'm sure.

DyneWulf

Thank you very much~ Glad to see that!

DyneWulf

Thank you, thank you :3 I really appreciate it!

DyneWulf

Summary: I feel there are instances where copyright has been subverted from its original purpose of encouraging art production through supporting artists and instead turned into a low-effort perpetual moneymaking scheme for a corporation that had little to do with the production of the work, and that this is not a proper state of affairs when it occurs. What to do about it, I am unsure. And it's totally not the case here specifically anyway. Re. shoplifting, just like for how people are more willing to drop bombs remotely rather than personally, I suspect perceived effect distance is the key. Even if it's actually the case, it's not apparent to the average person that shoplifting will injure the employees who are _right there_, either immediately by coming out of their salary or indirectly through making the company more likely to go bankrupt. Therefore, I suggest that in order to discourage people copying, DW close the psychological distance by going onto u18chan and making sad dracopuppy eyes at everyone.

Regonoreth

An interesting way of looking at it, and I can respect that. I am a bit more jaded on the subject being that after working in retail for the better part of a decade, I've seen the mentality over and over again where people justify stealing by saying "It's just a faceless corporation, no one is getting hurt" when it's the employees that are paying the price most of the time, or in this case as you said the creator is the one being screwed over since they are the ones not getting paid.

Richard

But still, the guilt of it being there :/ At least you're aware of it now?

Teddy-the-Yeti

I'm unsure about how it will turn out, but the thing I'm sure is that I will keep supporting EA! Simply because it's a game that I enjoy quite a lot so far, and want to support your work made on it!

RodrickDomnall

Actually, do you have a link to here on the title screen of the game? If not, it might be worthwhile to stick one there, in case the game gets shared without a backlink.

Regonoreth

DW has an unusually regular update schedule. Rumor has it that he is secretly a robot. A pirate ninja robot who loves margaritas and frequently rescues dragons being held captive by princesses.

Regonoreth

tldr: Don't worry about it too much, you can probably just keep doing what you're doing, you're still the most convenient source of the latest version and people will pledge because they like EA regardless. Unlike apparently everybody else, I found EA though a link CM posted somewhere or other, and became a patron explicitly because I wanted to get the latest updates.  But there are plenty of webcomics I support as well merely because I feel I'm getting value for the public content. If you want to avoid people stealing and posting stuff publicly, almost the only way to do it is to have no exclusive content at all. And I mean ZERO--the "special patron version" you're talking about will be special for exactly the ten minutes it takes for someone to post it to a sharing site. Of course, without exclusive content 2/3 of your current support rewards disappear. Off the top of my head, things I've seen people offer in place of exclusive final content: - Ephemeral interactive content like live-streams. You can't pirate these because they stop being "live" when they're done. - World info, notes, and WIP content like sketches. Things that aren't worth much and the final version will be out soon anyway, so there's little point in sharing them. - Commissions / input into the final product. I'm not really sure if you can do much for the first two, since watching you program is probably not as interesting as watching someone sketch and you're already doing free background info via the AMA. And I don't necessarily think you should add more official patron input, both because it can create more work for you if you're not careful and because being compelled to listen to other cooks can ruin your soup. But making the inevitable comparison to Blackgate, that's pretty much what they're doing--the first tier is an input tier. One thing you can do, perhaps, is delay access to the $10 reward until a payment cycle has gone through. I suspect people who are actually giving you money are less likely to post it free, which at least makes the image gallery patron-unique-ish. (You probably don't want to delay the $3, to encourage people to pledge it as the easiest way to get the current content.)

Regonoreth

Ehh. I used to be a bit like that, and I still think that copyright is a weird artificial social construct rather than a actual property right that can be "stolen." But somehow I'm way more willing to participate in the system and pay for content now that I have a job. >_> Especially in cases like this where 90%+ of it is clearly going to the creator(s).

Regonoreth

I'll still support you, because to be fair, back when I didn't have a job, I would always try and get paid content for free. Now that I have a job, I'd be happy to continue supporting your project. It's as expected, of course, that paid content would be leaked sooner or later. You're doing a great job, can't wait for the next update!

Mike

Thank you! I think I'm just gonna stick to how I've been doing it ;) Leaks are gonna happen, and it can't be helped, so I'm just ognna stick to my normal stuff ;D

DyneWulf

Oh no, don't be sorry for doing that. Honestly, I'm glad it was done! I've gotten more support becasue of it, so thank you x3 It's only becasue of that one website I mentioned that anything was leaked, so I don't blame you in the slightest

DyneWulf

Regonoreth I agree with you 100% it's nothing less than theft, all piracy is. Sadly it's a reflection of today's society and their selfish, entitled beliefs that everything should be free, the peopled who put the effort into their work be damned. But my point was that some people may have an opposing view point on things of that nature and I can understand that, but I will not agree with it. That being said, if this at the very least brings more eyes here, and a few of them stick around and add their support then some good came of it. (Silver linings and all that.)

Richard

Sorry for that, I started the thread coz I wanted to open a discussion about the VN like how Blackgate and Echo had as well as to bring more attention to it. I wasn't aware of there being leaks until it was posted.

Teddy-the-Yeti

it's your decision whether or not to make the demo free but the bottom line is that this is shitty because someone who doesn't own this project essentially made that decision for you. i don't know if i'd pay if the content was free (if i wasn't already a patron) but i definitely think this project is worth supporting and i'm happy to be supporting it; i'm not gonna stop supporting just because there is a free version out there.

Vivienne

Nowadays, this is a major reason that I'm throwing money at you. This game needs to exist, and you're giving making it a shot.

Regonoreth

OMG!! SO much love for you right now!

Dkrewe

Thank you both

DyneWulf

I've included that in my newest builds, and I'll put some extra emphasis when I post too. Though, it's not gonna stop that yiffy party site x3

DyneWulf

Tomorrow! I'll be updating the main game and free demo ;D

DyneWulf

Haha, I'm glad to know that some people don't care about things like that then :3

DyneWulf

Hmm, that's the first I've heard that. That's a lot of pressure too x3 I gotta see this through to the end though. I have lots of people who are actually supporting me, and I never thought I'd get as far as I have. Not to mention, I love my guys and their stories!

DyneWulf

Wait what?? There is a new update other than the July 15th update???

Dkrewe

It's worth a lot, really. I'm happy to see that people are actually coming from there and showing support!

DyneWulf

At least people link back here! That's always a good thing. I expected it to happen eventually, but I guess I just wasn't ready for it!

DyneWulf

Thank you for that ;3 After everything I've seen here, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm gonna do next.

DyneWulf

Thank you very much :D I really like to hear that.

DyneWulf

I think that's the route I'm gonna take, actually. Realistically, I update about 4 routes a month, meaning putting the free demo for 1-2 days behind on the routes is still a couple months of progress, but it just doesn't seem like it's that much.

DyneWulf

Yeah, I don't think there's a lot I can do about it happening right now due to how I'm having to distribute it. I really don't want to change the method, since it just works the best for me. I'm sure it's not the last time it'll happen, but for now, I think I will stick with how I am doing it already. It really is bringing in the extra support right now, that's for sure.

DyneWulf

Anyone who quits supporting you just because they get some versions for free would have to be a blockhead or something.

Perro The Traveler

Seems to be the case with a handful of people right now. Glad it was enough to pull in new support :3

DyneWulf

Seems advertisement is a general consensus! Well, thank you for supporting ;D

DyneWulf

Unfortunately, that yiff-party website has been a thorn in the side for a lot of patrons. It's like they make accounts and steal creators content to share on their website. I'm surprised it took this long, honestly!

DyneWulf

People support you because they expect you to finish the game. Not because you provide some private demo versions to them.

Artem

Hehe, that's ony way to look at it! I had just finished updating the demo version to include more days even ;D

DyneWulf

Mmmhmm, that's certainly something.

DyneWulf

Definitely, I will continue to support no matter what is decided

Kookeh

"a blatant disregard of your intentions for product distribution" I can't see how there are multiple views--pretty clearly this is what it is. The problem is that there's basically no way to enforce the model while the game is still being distributed through downloading, so you might as well look for silver linings.

Regonoreth

I only found out about you and this game through that U-18 thread and here I am supporting you,take that for whatever it's worth.

Yulci

sadly was bound to happen eventually meh. i have found your game on other sites in the past tho thankfully the info on those at least lead to your patreon so there are some honorable people

Hyou Vizer

I would not stop supporting just cuz someone wanted free stuff.................

Eric

In all honesty i found your VN through U-18Chan about 5 months ago inadvertently when someone posted a thread for Blackgate there and after pledging to that Patreon recommended me to your VN. So i am thankful for that but the way creators/artist/writers get treated on UChan often gets nasty and some people whining for free stuff without even a single thought of what goes into making it. Trust me though, the people who love what your doing will support you even if the builds were available for free. Blackgate is offered free and it still seems to get good support, same with Echo. So i would not worry to much, i'm sure your patrons will stick around to support you. Might i suggest that if you do decide to give the builds free your self that you make non-patrons wait a month to see what current patrons already got. So their a month behind on builds.

Eric

No matter what happen i will support your game to the end.

Everos

You can actually try and test something out now. Since you have the free publicity already, you can see if support for the games increases. If support does increase then maybe you can post at least past updates for the game that is delayed by at least 1-month/2 updates. That way the people who pay to support will be able to obtain the current updates while those who do not pay can still see the game however, the full release of the game will only be available for patreons. This way those who do not contribute may end up being patreons because they do not want to wait for the delayed updates. However, if support does not increase then I suggest that the game should only be available for patreons.

Kriter

Yeah it's one of those things that is going to happen and there is unfortunately not a lot that can be done about it, at least not without considerable time and effort invested. It ls a complex issue and I can see where there are multiple viewpoints on whether it's free publicity or a blatant disregard of your intentions for product distribution. Personally I am leaning towards the latter, considering you already offer a public demo for those who don't have the means, or desire to support the project and while not as far along as the supporters demo, it is enough to give people a general idea what to expect. Honestly I can't say that this might not turn out to be a blessing in disguise as far a support goes, and in the end it's up to you how you want to handle it but I think that keeping the current system with a free public demo and a more complete demo for supporters is the best way to go. I intend to keep supporting the project either way, so whatever you decide I will go along with it.

Richard

In all honesty it is how I found you. And I subbed to you almost in an instant. So while I do not condone the fact that someone shared your stuff, seeing it brought me here.

kaideliany

Personally, I think it's a mixed bag. I found out about this project through a Tumblr page with the current downloads on it at the time lol, probably not the same thing. I believe that firm supporters who want to see this project through, will support the project regardless of people finding the most current downloads for free. But like others have said, free advertisement so that should help in the long run.

BlueBooperArt

I know that it's not gonna stop piracy but you can at least ask the leakers not to leak the latest builds so quickly, i guess? Usually they would understand.....usually.

Mr.Flannel

I'm kinda iffy about it. I was hoping it wouldn't happen since this was one of my favorite vn's but unfortunately people want alot of things for free. I would see if it's possible to take down the download but keep the thread for publicity but that's just me

Akaneryuu

I say it's free advertising. It is not the finished product, so it's like giving out a free sample to get a new wave of people addicted. Then people will want more and eventually support like I did to get more story!

Dkrewe

I agree, you'd get good exposure showing the new updates. However, while sharing it publicly, make it apparent that unless they are supporters, that won't get access to special content of the game.

Teddy

I'm glad to hear that! Knowing people would still support it regardless really makes me feel better about it. I've poured a ton of time into the project already, and I don't plan on stopping either ;D

DyneWulf

It's not selfish at all, because you make a good point about it. I will reiterate though, that my supporters will be some special content in the final version though!

DyneWulf

I noticed the influx of support after it was posted there, so I certainly see the benefit of certain things!

DyneWulf

Personally, I think it's good exposure and I would still support even if it was all freely available, but at the same time, you've worked really hard to put updates out and to earn supporters. I suppose it just comes down to the results of it, if you get more supporters this way great!

I mean I was able to find this because someone posted on u18chan so I can see it drawing more support

Burning_Mandala

It should be demonstrated publicly to bring people to fund it. But why are you gonna fund it, when it's being shared every step of the way til the game of the completion. It really sucks that people who are paying get the game, and people who don't pay get it too. Sorry if it's a little selfish....

NikoElys

Yeah, it can go both ways here x3

DyneWulf

I do have mixed feelings about it. At first, it was aggravation, but that's passed, since I can't really control it. Perhaps people will support the project regardless, and I really do appreciate ANYONE that does. It helps me afford to be able to do this x3

DyneWulf

it has both goods and bads. on one hand, it's VERY good publicity. on the other hand, like you said, why support what you can get for free?

u172p

Right. I've got a couple of different ways to look at it.

DyneWulf

On there, not that I know of, but I'm gonna see how this plays out ;D

DyneWulf

That's true! That's why I'd like opinions on it. I see some projects blow up, and they put everything out there for people to see, but people support it anyway. I think I'm more reserved with is since... I'm not an actual artist, and felt like I'd not give people a reason to support this.

DyneWulf

It's hard to say whether this is good or bad, but personally (as a small-time supporter), I don't think it would make any difference to me whether or not there is a supporter-exclusive immediate access to new releases. With that in mind, I tend to lean towards this being an okay thing, since it's more exposure for EA, and thus, more potential for people to support it.

Specopcleric

On one hand it's good advertisement but on the other kind of defeats the purpose of your patreon if everyone has access to the most current demo

you need to see both sides, i became a supporter after i saw the post, there is that bad side of piracy bu there's also the good side of marketing

Nicolas E. Gramkow

Is there anyway for you to report it to get it taken down?

AceRufio

Well, it's not going to cut into the content for my supporters though, and they'll still get the special version once everything is said and done!

DyneWulf

It was bound to happen I suppose. Sucks for the people who are actually supporting :/

Kookeh