Frieren Episode 26 Reaction Extended (YT link below)
Added 2024-06-04 01:00:03 +0000 UTCIn Frieren episode 26, The Height of Magic, Ubel cuts through terrible exam design like a hot scissor cuts through Sense.
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YouTube Link:
https://youtu.be/FMu04hojMG0
Comments
I thought the same. magic in the show as exposed via these 2 counterexamples feels almost like a series of rituals and symbols to approximate the end result of bending the universe to your will, constructing a vision in your mind and manifesting it in your environment. Both Frieren and Ubel cut the corners and directly manifested their visions/intuitions in a 1:1 way, where traditional magic could be thought of as a complicated instruction manual to convince your intellect to support your lacking/unconvinced intuition. Could explain why most written spells are so hilariously limited in scope
Fettywop
2024-06-24 22:17:14 +0000 UTCThat's some warped level design
Alex G
2024-06-10 04:15:50 +0000 UTCWasn't familiar with that term but that's really useful 😊
Alex G
2024-06-10 04:15:23 +0000 UTCThe goal of the second test wasn't to damage him, it was can they cause him to take a single step back. I love it, it a way that can apply to all kinds of people; you could trick him to move, use the terrain or literally just brute force it while all the time being aware that if you kill him you fail, also testing for control. If Ubel knew she could cut the garment, why split him in half ? Wound him, cut the cloth, cut of his arm even if the test annoys you, it was complete over kill.
Francis
2024-06-10 04:12:45 +0000 UTCArakis, I don't think you could do what you described with magic? For one, Magic is a learned skill, people with enough talent to perform it instinctually like Ubel are wunderkind's of the highest degree. Teaching someone how to perform magic would automatically limit their ability to perceive things the same way Ubel does because then they would begin to understand the mechanics behind how spells work, and thus limit their ability to visualize violating those same mechanics. I will also point out that magic being fueled by belief or faith has already been shown in the series through the existance of priests and priestesses of the Goddess? Similarly, the mechanics behind the holy magic they perform also isn't understood either, despite it likely being the oldest form of magic in the show (since it originates from the Goddess).
BirthdayParty
2024-06-08 17:35:04 +0000 UTCPlaying devil's advocate: Burg's test was to "make him take a step back". Dealing damage or trying to bypass his defenses wasn't something strictly necessary to pass. I imagine that if the participants had try affecting his footing or the environment instead of simply brute forcing the problem, they would have been able to pass. I also think the margin between "Forcing Berg to step back once" and "Killing Berg" is pretty sizeable? The only person who could simply ignore Berg's defences altogether would be someone like Ubel, and Ubel has been established as an anomaly and prodigy within Frieren's magic system. Like, the concrete wall/vase analogy doesn't work here because you don't need to injure Berg or even completely destroy his defenses. You don't need to puncture plate armor in order to push someone in it back. Second, these exams are meant to select for the best of the best of the best. Framing the exam as "school tests for students" is a flawed analogy to begin with because these exams aren't meant to teach their participants nor are all people in the association expected to reach that level of expertise. They're essentially scouting for the next Mozart or Einstein. If you want to use a Hunter X Hunter example, the First Class Mage exam isn't the Hunter Exam, it's the test to become a member of the Phantom Troupe (killing another member of the Troupe or being nominated by a current member to fill a vacancy). Also, Ubel was still allowed to attend the exam again and the rule about killing the examiner was established before the exam started. So I think they treated her pretty fairly? It's not like Ubel was prevented from being a mage or permanently banned from the Association for her actions.
BirthdayParty
2024-06-08 17:25:21 +0000 UTCIn this analogy, the concrete wall is also looking at you smugly
Alex G
2024-06-07 03:42:01 +0000 UTCThe archery contest analogy is a good point. The way I saw the cloak exam was something like... "Here's a hammer, you pass by smashing through this wall of concrete to gently tap this priceless vase from the Ming dynasty. You'll never break through the wall (you loser students), but in case you do, make sure you don't break the vase!" It's like... what were you expecting? There is a ludicrously thin margin for success and unbelievably dire consequences for failure.
Alex G
2024-06-07 03:38:44 +0000 UTCYou described Effectual Reasoning to the dot, with that nightclub example. Agency and affordable failures. Ubel's the best
finomenal
2024-06-06 18:55:21 +0000 UTCJust an interesting tid bit. In the treasure room scene you can see two more mimics dissolving in the background. Frieren fell for a mimic two times prior in the same room. On the other hand, who the hell puts mimics in the treasure room?? Especially after what they just went through lmao.
Calamity
2024-06-04 19:45:56 +0000 UTCTwo things: 1. Regarding Ubel's 2nd class test: You wouldn't win an archery contest by shooting a cannon. Sense says that they put limits to offensive spells used. Ubel messed up and used more power. Mages should be able to control their spells and not yolo them. 2. I get the feeling you didn't 100% understand the explanation of how magic works, and that's ok, I had to rewatch several times myself. Ubel's cutting spell is not unique to her, anyone could use it. It doesn't really overpower defensive barriers. In a previous episode, Wirbel's defence magic blocks it. Sense's hair has stronger defences than Wirbel. The reason she's able to beat Sense is because even though Ubel knows intellectually that Sense has strong defences, she can't see them, the way Wirbel's defence was shown as little blue shields. Basically, Ubel is creating her own version of reality. The only thing being overpowered here is her rational part of the brain, by her instictual/subconscious part of it. And now this is my own opinion, but I absolutely hate this part of the show's setting. It's basically saying that everything is subjective and there is no objective measure. People as unique as Ubel use belief to basically perform miracles. In short, you can take the biggest mentally handicapped person, somehow teach them magic, and they would be a god.
Arakis
2024-06-04 06:57:10 +0000 UTCthe reason the test are so ridiculously hard is because of the region they are trying to go to is dangerous even for first class mages. so they wont pass anyone that isn't at least at that level of power.
Tyre Willis
2024-06-04 05:28:20 +0000 UTCThanks for bringing that to my attention. I'm surprised I didn't think more of it when I watched it.
Alex G
2024-06-04 05:08:31 +0000 UTCYeah I did just drop that in there with no context or explanation haha. To try to summarize: While the truth is important to me, there are often so many links in the chain from truth to data to practical-application-in-response-to-data that the more I experience the more skeptical I become of what I read and hear. I think information stemming from data works really well as a "this is the best I have in this informational slot for now" placeholder in areas that are not of great concern or consequence to one's life. For things that are of importance, I would rather get hands-on in the information than to trust a research report, what an authority on the subject has to say about it, or what is commonly reported, as I ultimately (arrogantly or not) trust myself to come up with the answer I need more than an outside body that is not as invested in my own well being as I am. Adding to this is the fact that typically the things that are going to affect me the most and be most important to me (and also what I have any chance of doing anything about) are going to correlate very strongly with areas that I have direct real-world experience and interaction in, and also bear consequences for. In that sense, perhaps it's not so much a dislike for data but that the intuitive, experiential, pure reasoning side of things seems so much more important to focus on. And that often requires rejecting certain types of "data." There are of course limits to this; Things that seem intuitive and obvious often turn out to be wrong. But then so does data (and if not the data the conclusions drawn from data). But even that danger has its answer in the intuitive and rational without relying on data (humility, treading carefully, iterating one's outlook and approach based on result, etc). I should also say that being skeptical of data doesn't mean rejecting it. Not believing anything or believing something's opposite out of distrust is maybe an even bigger mistake. Sometimes it's enough to just not know for sure.
Alex G
2024-06-04 05:04:25 +0000 UTCI agree with Goodwin that empirical data, while very useful, is very over rated and used far too often by people these days to shape their worldview. Haven't watched the reaction yet though so I may be saying something completely unrelated lol
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-06-04 03:47:12 +0000 UTCYeah, it seems that while ubel is willing to kill ... We don't know her real goal or agenda. The only people we know she killed are bandits and this proctor accidentally. She's not just a crazy murderer. I want to know more about her. I'm intrigued by her commenting on the wealth of sense here. That and her sister, who she loved. Ubel spinoff now.
crazizzle85
2024-06-04 03:47:04 +0000 UTCI like that a mentally atypical character like Ubel was apart of this magic system. She's really strong and sly, but like Land said, she lacks fundamentals and is dim-witted. So she banks all her skill and luck into intuition. Works for some things, not all, same as overly structured.
Gir
2024-06-04 03:46:55 +0000 UTCI knew you would like the magic system, a kind of limitless power based on your own "self determination" kind of, but i didn't think of your kind of "extreme" anti-authority views for the exams. \they didn't show as bad in the hunter exams. Fern said that Frieren was kind of at the height of magic in this episode and i think it has something to do with her kind of almost wanderlust. She says that "chests have unlimited potential" which is why she can't resist mimics. Every time she is willing to risk that 1 percent chance for the chance of a new discovery. So far she has come from squandering her life away doing as she pleases. Can't get enough of the character work.
Douglas Davis
2024-06-04 03:01:22 +0000 UTCTwo comments: 1) I find it interesting that everyone specifically uses the word "imeeji" (visualization) and not, for example, "souzouryoku" (imagination broadly) to describe the limits of magic. 2) I initially had a negative reaction to Alex saying he did not like or respect "data". Of course, I agree that accepting what people just asserted about the unmoveable cloak would not be wise, so if that's what you mean by "data", then sure, but that's just not normally what I would use that word to mean.
Ryan
2024-06-04 02:39:44 +0000 UTCThey're definitely stacking up this "imagery" thing heavily during this arc so it seems likely that there's some connection like that here somewhere
Alex G
2024-06-04 02:28:04 +0000 UTCOh boy...
Alex G
2024-06-04 02:27:08 +0000 UTCTechnically, even Ubel can’t cut through a normal defensive barrier. That’s her one shortcoming. She was able to cut the defensive barriers imbued in a cloak or Sense’s hair, but if someone put a plain barrier up, they probably wouldn’t be cut. Wirbel fought Ubel earlier in this arc and he’s still whole, but it’s cool to see how bad matchups can really screw you up. Frieren said she’s lost to others before (11 times IIRC), and I’m really interested to see if we ever get any insight on that. I wonder what’s the scissors to Frieren’s paper.
Alter Nate
2024-06-04 02:10:34 +0000 UTCPhase 2 complete! I know you’re going to be a massive phase 3 supporter…
bl0odm1st
2024-06-04 01:59:02 +0000 UTCI can't help but wonder if Frieren clone's last "manaless non-spell" move against Fern was somehow related to Ubel's technique. As in a new form of magic that's largely undiscovered and Frieren has found it after a thousand years of magic study, whereas Ubel happened to find it simply because she thinks differently. Maybe I'm way off base with that, just thought it interesting that both concepts were introduced in the same episode. Also I compare Ubel to a musician who can play by ear and doesn't ever use sheet music or tabs - except she's forgotten the instrument and the music is just happening anyway somehow.
Rekway
2024-06-04 01:50:22 +0000 UTCActual chills at the fake Frieren's glare at Fern
Sunny
2024-06-04 01:30:37 +0000 UTCHey did you know that Bungee G-
Oak
2024-06-04 01:29:53 +0000 UTC*visually imagine the properties of rubber and gum*
Jason Serrano
2024-06-04 01:24:18 +0000 UTCGreat minds think alike
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-06-04 01:06:11 +0000 UTCPretty much my overall take 😂
Alex G
2024-06-04 01:05:45 +0000 UTCSecond half of this episode is peak animation. Seriously some of the most stunning sakuga I have ever seen. But the first half is easily the highlight of the episode for me. Ubel can slice me in half whenever she wants. 🤤
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-06-04 01:03:09 +0000 UTC
