Excerpt from the Hagmaier Interview Tapes, Feb. 1986
Added 2020-10-05 22:11:48 +0000 UTC"This was the myth people created, that I was the "master of disguise." ...People believe that when somebody sneaks around, goes around doing these things, they just assume that they disguise themselves, in some way. What they don't understand, is no one has to disguise themselves, really. Because... people's minds... you know what I think about eyewitness identification? It is the worst form of evidence in court. It is also the worst form of information, in my opinion, that a police officer can get, because it can be so misleading, and I've seen it happen over the years. But I know that I could walk up to somebody, under ordinary circumstances, and they won't remember me, a day, or five days, or a month later. I mean, under ordinary circumstances.
I also know that when I escaped in Aspen, I was seen-- and I never left that area-- I escaped in Aspen, and I went up into the mountains, and I wasn't equipped mentally or physically to handle being up at 10,000 feet, even in the summertime, not knowing how to live off the land. It kinda wore me down. Nevertheless, I was just outside of Aspen, in the mountains, and I was being seen at truck stops in Wyoming, and Seattle, and San Francisco, and Australia. And if I'd been in Australia, they would have said, 'well, you see, that eyewitness who saw him was right.' I've seen this happen over and over again. So I'm saying, I know that I've seen people who just never remembered seeing me. And I didn't have to hide. I didn't have to disguise myself. I just had to be unobtrusive.
...[here in Florida] I was in their custody for two or three days, and I was on the Ten Most Wanted list, and I had to tell them who I was, and they didn't believe me when I told them. My opinion is... and I'll be quite frank with you, I'm not trying to be negative, but I don't think y'all catch anybody, really. There are exceptions, ok sure, but I think generally guys on the run catch themselves.
...I never wanted to get caught, I can tell you that, no doubt in my mind. ...I was never worried about FBI posters, because again my knowledge of how the human mind works told me that you know, unless I just stood there in the post office next to it, grinning stupidly [laughs]... I never feared being identified based upon a photograph, because I know that photographs versus reality, distort. And if you just act normal, people are not going to say-- if you act weird, then they're going to say 'I wonder what's wrong with him' and then you're going to stand out. But being on the run, I wasn't worried about being caught. Certainly, a fugitive such as I was, believe me I wasn't oblivious as to my status, and the fact that I had to be concerned.
...[but] if you fall into that trap you create your own stress, and the more paranoid you become the more likely it is you get caught, because you start acting differently. But if you realize, that person in that picture is not me. That's not me. My name is THIS, and I'm acting okay. And people are only going to think that I'm the person on that poster if I start acting in ways that make them think that I should be on that poster."
Special thanks to Richard Duffus for providing copies of the FBI interview tapes.
Comments
I think the things TB denied so emphatically were the things he knew, on some level, were his most deliberate tactics/tricks. He was a political "spy" that he prided himself on being, despite the false modesty. And though I am not even close to being a psychiatrist, I do feel that even if he was not a person who could be diagnosed with DID, maybe there are gradations of what can be seen as "split personality" - not where they black out, but perhaps they "slip" between personality states. He certainly seemed to do that, and his physical looks truly appeared to reflect changes that were more than cosmetic. Not always, but some were just chilling in how different he was inside and out at times. Just my layperson's thoughts. Everything can be on a spectrum I think.
CuriousKat
2021-09-14 19:15:07 +0000 UTC*under normal circumstances, **people** were unlikely to remember. Oops.
Drew B
2020-10-20 12:37:55 +0000 UTCTed is giving us a little something here worth pointing out. He mentions twice that under "normal circumstances," were unlikely to have remembered him hours, days, or even a month later. I agree. Proof of that is found at Lake Sammamish in '74. No one remembered Ted Bundy. They remembered a man who (depending on the sketch) portrayed traits of Ted. But Lake Sammamish witnesses failed to identify him. Actually, it was worse than that. Lake Sammamish witnesses were certain that it wasn't him. So, he's right about that aspect. But he is also giving himself up a little bit here, too. His abduction of DaRonch was not a normal encounter. Realizing this, we know what he did for the lineup: a drastic haircut and a new part. He did attempt a disguise, even if it was after the fact. Setting aside the fake mustache (which at times he most certainly employed) he might not have always used disguises, but he did use props (injury ruses) not as disguise, but at least to shift focus. I get that they aren't the same things, but again, he's giving BH something here. He also tells us here (indirectly) that Sherrod's was not a night of normal circumstances. He was giving more than a few of the young women the creeps that night. He wasn't acting normal so he stood out. I have always felt that depending on the photo, Ted did tend to look different. Not drastically different, but just enough to make people question if he was really the person they encountered. *An aside. In the FBI Interstate Flight poster, Ted's occupations are listed. Though sorted alphabetically, am I alone in thinking that he was probably bothered by the fact that bellboy, busboy, cook etc...were listed before law student?*
Drew B
2020-10-20 12:36:31 +0000 UTC
