Is Devil In The Waters Too Dark?
Added 2020-04-24 12:17:52 +0000 UTCWhat say you, fine readers? Is the story of Kimmy and Devlin and Josh becoming unpalatable, and mean to the point of detriment? . . .
Comments
Devilin calls Josh and invites himself over - Josh has no power to refuse. And then, over to KT.
VN
2020-05-09 01:50:59 +0000 UTCMake no mistake, xleglover is a great writer, too. He has taken Jen and Mike places where few writers dare--the last book, was an epic where Mike was wearing women's jeans, shirts, panties, regularly performed clean-up duties, was denied, caged, and performed oral regularly on Jen's black boyfriend, Jamal. It was a VERY long story. Not my cup of tea, but it was a like a gawker delay. I do thank xleglover for getting us into KT's work. Some, like this story, are hard to take, but the writing is just so far above anything else out there. It's compelling.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-26 20:10:23 +0000 UTCDnD - Right, I remember us talking about Xleglover's affinity for KT.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-26 09:42:57 +0000 UTCKimmy is Snow White evolving into the evil queen.
CSH
2020-04-26 06:01:55 +0000 UTCMy take is this: She's had it all along, but it took that reunion to force it closer to the surface. Now that it's out in the open with Josh (at least that's where the story was going), we'll see if she lets it go to her head or if she doesn't. My bet is that it's going to go to her head and that's fine, now. She's getting absolute power over Josh and if Josh doesn't stop things by morning, we'll see how Kimmy is at being queen bitch. Something tells me Josh is going to hold his tongue and just bury it deeper into Kimmy's trap.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 22:32:32 +0000 UTCxleglover has made no bones about being a KT fan. In fact, if it wasn't for xleglover mentioning KT, we probably would have never read an erotic novel. The fact that we started with a book that really got me angry, "Maggie", is not lost on me at all.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 22:28:22 +0000 UTCActually, Reza is way less believable for me than this story. I'm talking way less. Part of that is the build up we've had with this story and KT's writing of Kimmy and Josh. Jonny just seems to me to be geek without direction and Charlie, well... She's hot--she just doesn't accept her hotness fully, yet. Kimmy though, is just a master manipulator and in so doing has discovered she can lie about anything and get away with, thus playing on Josh's apparent need to believe her. In Reza, Reza has made no bones about his intent from beginning. Here we have a person with stunted development in Devlin; who probably has never been shot down in his life, and takes that as license to do whatever he wants without thinking about consequences. It's the perfect setup for Devlin to get the shock of his life and Kimmy is the perfect bitch to give it to him.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 22:25:33 +0000 UTCYep, awhile back I had similar reaction to the bullying but I mellowed now. Dave we're like Josh we just don't notice the slow rise in temperature soon we'll be to weak to jump out of the pot! Dame KT is good at this!
RCH
2020-04-25 21:02:24 +0000 UTCAgree, KT has been shouted out before in that forum. You go {darker} girl.
Donkatsu
2020-04-25 21:00:58 +0000 UTCKT will slowly but surely infiltrate the minds of every aspiring Hotwife writer until everyone will just become a parody of her style. She'll become the Francis Coppola of husbands' wives getting strange. Just kidding, it must just be a nice nod to KT.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-25 20:12:13 +0000 UTCDid Kimmy alway have a little bit of a bitch in her or did she just suddenly turn into the wicked bitch of the west after being with Devlin?
Tim ziegler
2020-04-25 20:10:36 +0000 UTCAnd, I've flipped, yet again. It happened after I posted that I submitted my review (which I won't edit at all, because it was honest) on KT's blog. KT, go as dark as you dare. What brought that on? Easy, the speculation in my own twisted mind that Kimmy could turn the tables on Devlin and use HIM more than she is already using him. (Hell, bring other guys into the fray--Black guys, Asian guys, Hispanic guys, Arabic guys, women, too!) Yes, she is using him, too. Kimmy can cuckold Josh all she wants--even to the point of feminizing him (hormones, all that stuff)--and I'll be on board. It's the bullying, the lies, and the conspiracy forming with Devlin that bothers shit out of me. So, there. A flip.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 18:36:10 +0000 UTCProbably not the best place to put this, but there's a mention of a certain "Kimmy Chang" in the latest xleglover story on OHW (ourhotwives.org). Hmm.... ???
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 17:00:17 +0000 UTCFREE JONNY!
DavidSilver
2020-04-25 16:24:33 +0000 UTCAbsolutely. Kimmy is starting to discover the devil inside her. I think the addiction point is absolutely right. We will see how much of a tool for Devlins idea she will be or if she starts to develop more of her own games. Like the last scene where Josh is going down on her. Being bad starts to turn her on. I hope for Josh, she doesn't tell Devlin about it. But I could see her need to brag about it to somebody. This story can bring so much fun in the future. I'm getting a little giddy thinking about the possibilities. :-)
DavidSilver
2020-04-25 16:19:05 +0000 UTCThanks. LHW1? Was before I started reading this blog. Good for you by the way b
Tracey52
2020-04-25 07:15:20 +0000 UTCI'm finally all caught up now for the reading. Lol. Since I'm caught up now, I can say that from how the story is progressing, it's ok how it is right now. If the story does go a little darker, we need Devlin to be more involved with taunting Josh or even start including himself in their life outside of work to make Josh jealous. A little more inclusion of Devlin would be good to add a little spice and cuckold angst to Josh. Him getting hard in front of Kimmy and Devlin, mad and humiliated at himself but so turned on. He is already secretly sexually aroused by Devlin and Kimmy being together so that's something I think could be added later in the series. Hey, maybe they all become friendly at the end. Who knows. I LOVE this series so far. I love all of you guys input too.
Sitri
2020-04-25 06:33:10 +0000 UTCI probably shouldn't have written about that, again. But it's out in the universe, now. Oh, well. Life goes on.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 02:38:40 +0000 UTCSo I’m one of three just my opinion like every one else, I love KT’s books to or I wouldn’t be on here.
Tim ziegler
2020-04-25 01:38:35 +0000 UTCahh man! was looking for another chapter today as it would fit with recent release schedule, but I’m guessing since book 4 is done (or almost so) that a few more days might be needed to get a jump start on the next book.
Chinookfan72
2020-04-25 00:29:24 +0000 UTCyeah I’d say we have similar takes it’s just slight differences here and there. Ultimately i think if KT wrote the story as I wanted it, you’d probably be more than okay with it, and if she wrote it as you want it I’d be more than okay with it.. the differences are really just picking nits. what I’m more curious about are the folks like D (the male version of DnD) who obviously have issues with the story as is, I’m curious as to if they see Josh as the main character, my assumption is that’s the case and that’s why they dislike Kimmy because she’s disrespecting the protagonist in their story, which I’d totally understand. As opposed, to you and I who see Kimmy as the main character and she’s just disrespect some lower level character so the disrespect doesn’t matter to us as much (or at all).
Chinookfan72
2020-04-25 00:25:20 +0000 UTCA is a friend we met at a Tampa gothic club about three weeks before all the COVID-19 stuff started. She's working from home, our rented house in FL. Yeah, I did write about the "Bull". I think... it's in the blog somewhere, probably in my thread on OHW (if that's still there). It's not my proudest moment, but in my mind at the time, and Daria's after, it was well deserved.
DavidnDaria
2020-04-25 00:07:28 +0000 UTCYeah, I guess we are similar on some points because I don’t want her to tell him but do want her to make it increasingly obvious. I’m not looking for an announced cuckold story here. But the dynamic is critical. I think Josh ate her out because he was indulging a cuckold fantasy. He needed her to reassure him she wasn’t cheating, then he was free to imagine she was. For me, he’s critical for the development.
CSH
2020-04-24 23:52:40 +0000 UTCI guess that’s where I’m different. I like that Kimmy is married, it makes her relationship with Devlin more taboo, but to me the Josh/Kimmy relationship isn’t important to me all. Josh needs to exist because Kimmy needs to be married, but that’s all I need from him. I’m very much on team netorare.
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 23:39:26 +0000 UTCBoth Devlin and Josh are there to give Kimmy balance and room to grow. The story is about her more than either of them but it can’t work without both for the moment. Like most cuckold stories, the lead character is the marriage itself and the changing power dynamic in the relationship as the wife starts to transform into a different person.. If Josh shows no development in reaction to the changes in Kimmy then the whole thing will fall flat. Devlin probably won’t change at all. He’s there to guide Kimmy and Josh, or destroy them and their marriage. I’m not that interested in him, personally. Unlike some others, I think the end break might be the Waters getting rid of Devlin rather than Devlin breaking up the Waters.
CSH
2020-04-24 23:26:52 +0000 UTCLol!
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 22:48:06 +0000 UTCGreat thoughts, JL, per usual. My take on #1 was that it was a lucky bounce for her, but we'll see.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 22:46:45 +0000 UTCFor sure we know the least about him. When I read hotwife or cheating wife stories the main relationship I focus on is the wife and bull relationship so I almost always have the bull as a more important figure than the husband.. The bull has a very specific purpose and Devlin is doing a bang up job. I’ll be a fan of his until he messes with Kimmy to hard.. then I’ll grab my pitchfork!
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 22:45:22 +0000 UTCI dunno, Devlin is still basically a complete cipher. We really know far and away the least about him and spend far and away the least time with him. In my mind, he's more of a concept than a person. A natural disaster happening to the Waters' marriage. I'm not even sure Devlin's going to have a character arc.
Glaucon
2020-04-24 22:31:41 +0000 UTCIf Jonny ever gets out of that cage his dick will be the size of a peanut!
CSH
2020-04-24 22:30:18 +0000 UTCEveryone is concerned for Josh. I want everyone to stop for a minute a remember poor Jonny from "Reza Landlord" series. Poor Jonny has been locked in his cock cage for over a year and a half. We should be worried about the physical and possible psychological damage caused to poor Jonny!!! Remember to smile even though your wearing a mask it'll make you feel better!
RCH
2020-04-24 22:25:15 +0000 UTCYes, KT is very unpredictable. Unlike a few other authors that write almost a form story. They change the names, shift a few events, reuse a few well worn sex scenes and call it done. I have never felt this in any KT's stories. Always fresh, always a new turn. DS I think that you are right that Kimmy truly love Josh. Problem is basically Kimmy selfish and self centered and is not thinking long term. She is gambling with their marriage and it's addicting. Just like the sex with Devlin the thrill of cheating is addicting. Think of the adrenaline rush Kimmy got when she was on the brink of getting caught then Josh bought the BS! Kimmy is turning into an adrenaline junky. As far as going darker we all have our own limits, unless their is a serial killer in the group.
RCH
2020-04-24 22:11:23 +0000 UTCI got a question.. who do you all think is the protagonist(s) in this series? My thinking is Kimmy is the protagonist, Devlin is the deuteragonist and Josh is the tritagonist. I’m thinking this might be why some people struggle with Kimmy’s actions as they see Josh as either the sole protagonist or at worst a co-protagonist.
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 22:00:50 +0000 UTCWhose A? Have you told us the story of you throwing a guy through a wall?
Tracey52
2020-04-24 22:00:36 +0000 UTCMe too. Your awesome kt. Thanks for asking for feedback but hopefully you get the idea that we want you to do what you want because we trust you’ll make it better than we could possibly expect. No pressure. Much!
Tracey52
2020-04-24 21:52:30 +0000 UTCIt's not about sexual and non-sexual demonstrations of guilt, its her incredible way to get out of a heated argument when she is cornered by the man she loves and knows she hurt. I'm belaboring the point by now.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 21:01:37 +0000 UTCFound it... original post... We picked "Okay for Now". Note I wrote, "We". I got outvoted, 2-1. Daria and A clearly think the story could go darker and they'd be happy. Me, well, you know me. I'm the guy who couldn't finish "Maggie" for five months and I am struggling with this. Take heart though, KT. I'd venture to say any other author who would write such a story could not do it as you have. You're simply a cut above and it shows in my reactions. In this story, you have taken it to the next level. You've created a genuine bitch in Kimmy. A man who loves his wife and is scared to death of losing her, and an asshole to beat all assholes. Together, it's a very entertaining read, IF I just read it. If I take time to analyze things, it makes me want to stop reading it. Daria and A are into it. Yeah, A knows all about our history with cuckolding and how it failed very badly and violently (if you don't remember, the "Bull" almost went through a wall and would have fallen about 20 feet to concrete had I not stopped). So, yeah I'm not a cuckold in that sense. It doesn't stop Daria's fantasizing, though. So, this is fueling Daria's darker side and A's darker side, too. It's not a bad thing your book is serving that purpose. All that written, our vote is a compromise. They want darker, I wanted too dark. So, there you go: Right in the middle. And I didn't even mention cheating. :)
DavidnDaria
2020-04-24 20:57:18 +0000 UTCI didn't say anything about the need for Kimmy to confess, I think there are ways around outright confessing that still demonstrate that Kimmy feels overcome with guilt in the moment where her husband calls her out. That's all I'm looking for. Edit: And again, that's just with the mindset that Kimmy is a conflicted character. If she werent a conflicted person, then it makes perfect sense what's happening.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 20:55:38 +0000 UTCOur comment is gone. :) Dunno where it went, but "We" voted for "Okay For Now". It was a compromise vote. Daria and A wanted darker, I wanted too dark, so it's a middle of the road vote. I explained it all in the other message that's gone, but oh, well!!! :) Y'all have happy weekends!
DavidnDaria
2020-04-24 20:52:07 +0000 UTCI agree with the above. I like that this whole thing is really from Kimmy and she’s not some shy hotwife having to be talked into it. Can’t say how tired I am of the whole, “please cuckold me” storyline. I’m okay with us getting there but it’s great she’s independent and the protagonist.
CSH
2020-04-24 19:54:51 +0000 UTCChinookfan’s right. You’re actually trained to argue like that in law school. She sticks as close to the facts as possible. She was in the lobby for a bit then a room, so that’s how the meeting went. Don’t just be defensive, make the other side defend themselves. There’s a reason lawyers get divorced, LOL.
CSH
2020-04-24 19:37:23 +0000 UTCAgree with CSH, and Glauc. To me Kimmy’s reaction these last two chapters would be the exact same one I’d expect everyone to have who isn’t going to out right confess or who isn’t a sociopath. As this is erotica confessing isn’t an option at this point so KT was spot on in Kimmy’s reaction here.
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 18:55:23 +0000 UTCChinook - look, I acknowledged I'm a bad lawyer ok? lol
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 18:51:40 +0000 UTCjames to answer how Kimmy can go from “I’m in trouble” to “he knows” to “i can talk my way out of it” certainly you’ve been in a position where you know your wrong, but you are still avoiding being caught.. Say as a kid getting caught sneaking out etc.. Your internal dialogue will be “aw fuck I’m screwed” but you’ll still lie to your parents to avoid getting grounded etc. That’s exactly what Kimmy is doing here, she knows she fucked up, but coming clean gets her in trouble so she lies.. The only difference is Kimmy is a trained lawyer so she’s better at arguing without emotions than others so that makes her a better at it than say a kid lying to their parents.
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 18:41:53 +0000 UTCI think she reacted as a normal person would. And frankly a normal guilty person. Nobody gets as outraged as someone who’s guilty and caught. The “how dare you accuse me!” strategy is about as common as it gets. It’s perfect for those who feel really guilty since they almost can’t believe they did it either. I’ve personally experienced that one, sorry to say.
CSH
2020-04-24 18:33:30 +0000 UTCAnd she may be appalled by it but she will also be thrilled to tell Devlin how Josh literally got it rubbed in his face.
CSH
2020-04-24 18:22:50 +0000 UTCWrite the story you want. We’re here because we like it.
CSH
2020-04-24 18:17:34 +0000 UTCso many good comments here I’d just like to add my own two cents. I voted with current majority (kind of not dark enough). To Glaucon’s point above this is a story about a cheating wife, who is cheating with the worst possible guy she could choose (from her husbands perspective). This premise alone is going to make Kimmy unlikeable and the story too dark for some regardless of how KT writes the story, but this is the premise most of us wanted (the 1st and 2nd place stories both were cheating wife stories). As far as cheating wife stories go I’d say this story has been pretty tame, but I like that it’s been tame because it helps with the believability of the story. Kimmy isn’t going to from loving wife to complete disrespect of her husband at the first sight of a large dick. That being said I hope that is where we are headed as long as Kimmy’s progression to badness remains believable, and this is the reason I voted for darker. KT i wouldn’t worry about Kimmy being believable yet. I know many men and women that have cheated and her story is remarkably similar to many of my female friends’ cheating stories up to this point. From here my friends that cheated all realized that while they were “fine” and in “happy” relationships, the affairs all exposed some hidden issues within the marriage that the wife was either unaware of or ignoring. I’m hoping Kimmy has a similar revelation as well. Despite Kimmy’s cheating, she is someone I find very likable and she is my favorite female lead in any of your stories so far. I love that Kimmy is self sufficient and not reliant on Josh for anything other than emotional support. It
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 18:16:45 +0000 UTCYeah, the bj where she thought, I’m gonna do to you what he just did to me. But also the handjob where he ended up thinking he didn’t care if she worked for Devlin if it made her do things like that to him. But those are the sexual aspects and just take them further down that path. What I took you to mean instead and is perhaps lacking here is the non-sexual aspects. They are likely friends and share a lot. Let’s see that. Show us she loves him. You’re right she’s likely feeling guilty as all hell. Maybe she doesn’t show it in the bedroom but In all the other aspects of their life together.
CSH
2020-04-24 18:11:39 +0000 UTCAs it looks like Kimmy is not going to come clean anytime soon, Devlin is going to have to move things along himself. Remember he wants Kimmy several times a week and for "business" trips. Josh is going to have to come to terms and Devlin has good reason to think he will.
MTO
2020-04-24 18:02:00 +0000 UTCCSH - I guess the demonstration of that is the determined blowjob a couple books back? At the end of the day, all I'm saying is damn shes good at lying.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 17:56:09 +0000 UTCIn the hotel room Kimmy was already reveling in her badassery.
Donkatsu
2020-04-24 17:50:57 +0000 UTCThis seems reasonable to me. She can’t admit what she did but might fall all over herself to do nice things for him.
CSH
2020-04-24 17:49:06 +0000 UTCGlaucon - Ok? So I take it you agree but that's not the point? I know she has actually cried in this story. Maybe this helps, to elaborate, I guess I would specifically like to see some cracks in her armor in her interactions with Josh. She doesnt let on too much emotion in those interactions in a demonstration of knowing sympathy for him, she doesnt have to be apologetic but she has a reaction to him currently that kind undermines what we know is true about her care for him.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 17:41:18 +0000 UTCYes, that might be right. I’m not sure that it needs to be crippling guilt but, yeah she’s going to be really torn up for a while. For me, the eroticism is seeing her move from the guilt to a self-realization that she wants the sex and needs to repress the guilt to get it. I suggested in another place that she do nice things for Josh, perhaps from love, perhaps from guilt. I think that would be a natural reaction as shown by many a cheating husband. And to add one thing - I’ve commented previously that I would like to see her tease Josh and go along with Devlin being cruel to him. That only works for me BECAUSE she loves Josh. She doesn’t want to hurt him but the sexual thrill from doing it overcomes her love. If she doesn’t love the man, there’s no story here.
CSH
2020-04-24 17:37:42 +0000 UTCFor me, this moment is really powerful though, she just got home having life altering sex knowing she was going to probably have some explaining to do, and then her husband hits her with the thing she is dying to avoid. This is the ultimate sin she has justified in her head as the worst thing she could do. It's a challenge for me to think she could meander through this moment (along with allegations that are also correct) with ease and almost contempt for the accusation. And no, I dont actually think she had iron clad morals, it's just a shorthand for me to say that she cares for Josh.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 17:34:01 +0000 UTCKimmy's definitely cried a bunch in this story. The very first action she takes in the first chapter we get from her perspective is crying for the whole car ride back home.
Glaucon
2020-04-24 17:33:31 +0000 UTCHere's another paradox for you guys who like darkness. Isnt it darker to know that a character is wracked with guilt for her actions but can't help herself? I think that's truly dark. A woman crying herself to sleep because she is hurting the man she loves because she can't help herself with a man she knows he (and herself) hate. That feels infinitely darker than a stone cold lawyer faced woman who can sooth her husband's worry and miraculously mask her own. To me, in order for this to be darker, Kimmy needs to feel more of what she is doing.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 17:26:12 +0000 UTCNo question it’s a challenging writing prospect. I think KT’s demonstration of guilt in Kimmy is actually quite realistic. In real life, manifestations of guilt come out in these ways all the time, trying to overcompensate in other ways (which Kimmy has done multiple times), or projecting guilt onto others (which she has also done). If someone gets away with a theft, for example, it’s pretty rare for them to come back and apologize for it, even if they feel guilty. In terms of how quickly you go from pure to corrupt, we’ve been with these characters for four books at this point, I don’t have a number on me but it’s gotta be well past 100,000 words at this point. I feel like KT’s spent time on it. I will say I probably could’ve done with more time on Kimmy’s reluctance, but I’m greedy. Side note and somewhat related to the pace of Kimmy’s transition - it’s interesting to me that KT skipped the first Kimmy/Devlin encounter – the initial transition from totally opposed to Devlin to giving in to him. Before even chapter one, Kimmy begins this series with a secret she’s motivated to keep from Josh. I don’t know if Kimmy is meant to have some ironclad “moral code” – if she is I must’ve missed it.
Glaucon
2020-04-24 17:24:02 +0000 UTCShe can’t possibly be likeable. I get the point point about us not seeing her as having shown in the books her fundamental decency and kindness. Maybe something along those lines earlier on would have helped to establish that.
CSH
2020-04-24 17:19:31 +0000 UTCI agree with this, CSH
Glaucon
2020-04-24 17:12:55 +0000 UTCBut isnt a framework of the Good and wholesome person that is Kimmy necessary to serve as a launching point for her to lose touch with her morals? If you think KT has achieved which I would agree with, the question I guess becomes how quickly do you strip a character from being bound to it to giving into lust at all costs? For me, the very end of the last chapter felt a little difficult to fathom if KT is trying to make Kimmy have a heart, but I provided caveats for that opinion. And just to be clear, my likeability of a character is linked to their believability, not necessarily their moral code. But if a character is meant to have a moral code (like Kimmy), then in order to believe it I need to feel it. If I dont feel it, then I dont like it!
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 17:12:28 +0000 UTCKlemmohazard nailed it. It’s about complexity not likability. Kimmy has to be unlikeable given her actions. She’s screwing her husband’s worst enemy. Her husband is a decent man and his enemy is an asshole. On one level, of course she is unlikeable and her behavior is inexcusable. On the other hand, you’ve shown she loves Josh. I would play that up, let her do something to show that love and her decency. Don’t betray the development she’s going through. She can be really sweet, loving and decent to her husband and then wail on him in the bedroom and cheat on him with Devlin. Particularly if she realizes he secretly likes it. The transgressive nature of her doing this when Josh is fundamentally decent to her heightens the eroticism of the story.
CSH
2020-04-24 17:05:55 +0000 UTCAgreed Glauc!
Chinookfan72
2020-04-24 16:52:57 +0000 UTCAs for the story being too dark: This story is about a wife secretly cuckolding her husband with the man he hates most in the world. How is that NOT going to be dark? It needs to be true to the concept and the characters. In my opinion, it needs to be profoundly dark to be at all worthwhile given the initial concept. I believe it has gone exactly where it needs to go so far. I’ll take my cheating wife cuckolding story with a cheating wife and some cuckolding, thank you very much. A nice portion of power exchange on the side, if you please. A dash of loving cruelty would be perfect. There is an extraordinary amount of trash in this genre. The writing that stands out falls on both the lighter and darker sides of the line. (Kenny Wright for example vs. Mascarasnake or Audrey Bocklin - now those are dark) In my opinion, your writing has recently been coming up on that doorway, peering into the darkness, then not really crossing the threshold. You’re stuck with no way to take the story except down a dark path you’re not ready to walk. (e.g.Impure thoughts) You’ll never know where the path leads unless you go down it. On the other hand, if you want to stand and look into the abyss rather than fall into it, so be it. It needs to be your decision though. This process of having us comment and nudge you one way or another is great fun for us and gives you immediate feedback but can quickly ruin your story. Unfortunately, we are a bit like Kimmy and Josh, maybe you have to show us what we want before we can realize we want it. You have an idea where you want to take this, so I say, take it there. If you try to make the story something it isn’t in order to please someone else’s concept of what it should be then you are going to ruin it for both yourself and your readers.
CSH
2020-04-24 16:46:59 +0000 UTCI think I'd also make a distinction here, because it feels like people are equating likable with her actions being justified. And I really don't see how you "justify" her affair in this context without fundamentally changing the story, making Josh worse or making Devlin better, both of which would heavily undermine the point of the character dynamics.
Glaucon
2020-04-24 16:35:28 +0000 UTCRE concerns about Kimmy's likability - It seems to me that she's filling a distinct narrative role in a piece of erotica. Everyone's going to have different tastes on the matter, but for me it would undermine the actual role she plays if she was too morally above board. Morally justifying her actions would undermine the concept here, that her lust and sexual desires are overcoming her principles and bonds of love (in my mind, the core of the heat in the story).
Glaucon
2020-04-24 16:20:57 +0000 UTCLOVE your 2) Question! Also a great idea!
BNR
2020-04-24 15:55:36 +0000 UTCJames nails it again!
BNR
2020-04-24 15:52:42 +0000 UTCAgreed! I love the HEA as well as Netorare but have a DEEP LOVE for KT's style and haven't really much (overall percentage) to complain about! KT writes AWESOME. Keep writing AWESOME!
BNR
2020-04-24 15:51:46 +0000 UTCGlaucon's paradox, the more unlikable a character she is the more likeable she is, lol. For me, if she is to be respected as someone who has heart she needs to be more noticeably torn up, but that's just me. I could never be a lawyer, lol.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 15:48:48 +0000 UTCOff the last chapter I had two questions that maybe we’ll get answers to...1) Did Kimmy know she had to tell Josh they went up to the suite to continue the meeting in order to sell her story, she talked to herself about that in the last chapter, what if Josh was tracking her? If not, it was quick thinking cause if she said “we were in the restaurant the whole time” Josh would have known she was lying. 2) Was the Josh “spunk eating” really an “undercover” mission (get it?)...did he do that primarily to get some confirmation of his worst fears. I’ve been trained now to have a deviant mind so it was the first thing I thought when he did that.
JL23
2020-04-24 15:36:48 +0000 UTCVoted "ok". Follow your muse, KT, wherever it takes you. I will be reading.
TF
2020-04-24 15:36:03 +0000 UTCI think that Kimmy kind of does need to be a bit unlikable for this narrative to work, to be honest. The fundamental thrust is a wife cheating on a husband that she purportedly loves with the guy's worst enemy. And that's the point!
Glaucon
2020-04-24 15:34:39 +0000 UTCI vote for OK for now. If I ever get a sense that Kimmy is totally falling for Devlin and out of love with Josh, or that this isn’t something that deep down excites Josh, I would say that’s too dark. I wouldn’t want a story where the bully has completely won. As someone said, I still feel that Kimmy loves Josh and doesn’t want to leave him (in fact I think this last chapter was proof that despite the horrible things she’s doing she still loves and needs Josh). I do feel like we may need more Josh/Devlin interaction soon, I want to see what Devlin’s end goal is here.
JL23
2020-04-24 15:32:34 +0000 UTCKT - One thing to keep in mind - The comments on chapters aren't necessarily a good indicator of overall response (as you're seeing in the poll above). It's a lot easier to comment if you have a gripe than if you're enjoying things overall. Vocal minorities, squeaky wheels and all that.
Glaucon
2020-04-24 15:30:53 +0000 UTCI also agree with JAMESISASLEEP!
BNR
2020-04-24 15:21:49 +0000 UTCI liked Kimmy more before she failed to believe her husband over her would be lover. That made her unlikable to me on a HUGE SCALE! More than the actual cheating! It made her seem almost gullible to me. What "Wife" treats her husband, whom she claims to love, with such disregard? [Kimmy pats Josh on the head after hearing about the most painful parts of his life "Sure, Joshy. Sure. Whatever you say..." *sigh* " Have a cookie and feel better" she replies as she completely moves past her husband's trauma...] I WANT her to get off on the knowledge he is probably telling her the truth about all of his past and the discovery of her cheating would likely destroy him. Maybe drive him to leave her and to an extreme he might even eat a gun, but the danger of it all adds to the incredible heights she soars to when she enjoys the indiscretions all the more!!!
BNR
2020-04-24 15:20:53 +0000 UTCI'm behind on reading but when it comes to cuckold stories, I always prefer a dark story line and (personal preference) a dark ending. Doesn't necessarily have to end bad for the husband. An ending like "this is our life now, deal with it hubby" would be a "HEA" for the husband and everyone else in the story (my personal preference.) The husband would hate it but his sexual satisfaction is so great he loves it and accepts it. But you write very well and your books suck me in. I prefer a darker story but I also say don't stray from your writing style. I'm writing while at work so I'm not even sure what I'm saying. Lol. Have a great Friday KT and everyone else!
Sitri
2020-04-24 14:35:54 +0000 UTCI like the dark. ;-) There is just one hurdle, where I stop to read this kind of books. When I feel that there is no love in the marriage. Kimmy does stupid things for lust. We are humans. We are stupid. But I have no doubt about her big love for Josh. I like exploring this darker shade of your story telling brain. And after this last two chapter I feel, like I never will know, where you will go next. It's very unpredictable.
DavidSilver
2020-04-24 14:00:30 +0000 UTCI think the question you need to ask yourself is, how much will this change the characters.? Nia was a very naughty girl in Cherry Blossoms but if Nia and Geoff never changed after extreme and stressful times their games had then we would never had believed it or found Nia redeemable. I think you can pull off anything so long as you provide a path of development for Josh to understand and control it, whatever the outcome since he's our measure. I loved Cherry Blossoms but I never liked Nia the same way I did Sukie from Happy Endings. Fundamentally a lot of the Erotic thrill can come from risk and dishonesty, and both can make the character unlikable. My only advice is make sure to keep your characters complex rather than likable. Libby, Nia, Chelsea are character's I've come to appreciate immensely due to how they developed and I think one of the stronger reasons why people rate your work so highly. Experiment, so what else you can discover about the characters and yourself
Klemmohazard
2020-04-24 13:45:09 +0000 UTCThrowing this out there because I'm thinking about what I could really use to reel me back in, is if after this scene theres noticeable guilt that Kimmy feels, getting so much from her husband that she is not worthy of. Something so profound that its noticeable to Josh but Kimmy can play off when she is caught ruminating. If it's true about what you're saying with Kimmy, she has to be wreck with everything that happened today in terms of highs and lows.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 13:34:47 +0000 UTCWhat James said! I agree.
RCH
2020-04-24 13:31:17 +0000 UTCRead your 2nd reply, oh is that what's going on? You're afraid you've taken things too far with Kimmy? If you think you've created an unlikable character I think you're ok, however her ability to remain unfazed by her husband nailing on the head what she had done wrong seemed to bely her internal monologue beforehand. How she switched from "I'm in so much trouble," then "shoot he DOES know," to "I can talk my way out of this, because I need him" to "Oh my God hes going down on me this is incredible how naughty this is and I hate that i love it" it did kind of feel a little much. It stretches my credulity a bit to be sure, but i also need to reread a bunch at this point, so maybe I'm off. And also, its not so far removed from reality that I dont want to see where you take her character, so theres that as well.
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 13:22:46 +0000 UTCTo be clear, when i say 'you havent done anything out of character' i dont mean that you havent done anything new, on the contrary actually, but your new ideas are well within the framework you've already established about your style. If that makes sense ...
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 13:12:32 +0000 UTCI worry most that Kimmy is unlikeable, or worse: unbelievable. And I mean irredeemably unlikeable. I want her to have heart despite her badness. I don't know if anyone watches a show called A Million Little Things, but that show was dark in its opening episodes. Too dark for me. [SPOILERS coming] . . . I couldn't watch them until I had nothing else to watch. Begins with a man's suicide, then you discover the man's best friend is having an affair with his wife, and his wife is pregnant with the guy's baby. Then I fell in love with the show, but in later episodes I come to realize the guy's wife is irredeemable no matter how hard the writing room is trying to shove this French bitch down my throat. No offense to the actress, she does a wonderful job. But it's the writer's who never cushioned her character in preparation for any kind of recovery. Now they're trying to go into Season 3 giving her subplots and I'm yelling at my TV: I remember what you did!
KT Morrison
2020-04-24 13:11:07 +0000 UTCLOL!—I love that dscription...
KT Morrison
2020-04-24 13:04:18 +0000 UTCI enjoy the homeostasis that is KT's dark lore, it's hard for me really say if it's too much or too little, I just know I like where things are currently. I take you're saying you're worried because you think you might be already crossing people's boundaries of darkness ... I dont think you've done anything out of character for you at all. I suppose eating a man's spunk out of their wife's vagina despite not knowing she betrayed him might be some people's limit, lol. For me, reading your book's at this stage is like the people who are invited to the House on Haunted Hill, thinking, "Wow, look at this place? So much to explore, it cant be that bad anyways ...."
JamesIsAsleep
2020-04-24 12:59:17 +0000 UTCHa ha—I know what I want to do, I'm just taking temperatures, doing a little triage . . . I'm a worrier!
KT Morrison
2020-04-24 12:39:58 +0000 UTCLol, you know why we picked this series out of the others right? not too mention it's fun too see how dark your writing can go and let's be honest, your stuff has always been great for its erotic thrill. So I'm interested in how far you can take it as the "kind of not Dark Enough" question implies you have some idea of how it can go darker but aren't sure if you should and I want to see what it is >: )
Klemmohazard
2020-04-24 12:22:36 +0000 UTC
