Russia-Ukraine SITREP for 31 JULY 2023 23:00 - Beavers Bite Moscow

I agree. How the news impacts our perception is something that I am still in the process of understanding. I became inoculated to a lot of the tricks early on in my life, and believe me, it was quite traumatic. That is why I have a soft spot for people who have not yet been through that. I don't believe in blaming them.

AnaR737

Well the big irony for me is that even in Countries with a free media and limited censorship, significant numbers of people still end up believing weird things! I think in both cases there is an erosion of trust in institutions and experts. And I’m sure Mr Putin has played a part but I think Rupert Murdoch has done even more damage when it comes to creating distrust and division in the west.

I guess you could probably get people like me swallow it for a while, meaning people who barely know what a drone is. I grew up under a police state. You end up believing the weirdest things....

AnaR737

What are the chances that Russia successfully jammed the drone twice and both times it hit the same wrong target? Isn't it more likely that they failed to jam the drone and it actually hit its intended target?

There is always the go to word: "terrorist" https://www.rt.com/russia/580647-moscow-city-drone-strike/

AnaR737

I see your point. It got me thinking that it totally makes sense in an strange way. They cannot play up too much the victim card when the damage they are causing is orders of magnitude larger and all over their own news. Even if you think it is just an SMO and it is justified, they don't even try to deny that Russia invaded Ukraine and made for the capital. If they can bomb Kyiv, who is to say Ukraine cannot send drones to Moscow or anywhere else in Russia as long as they are using their own capabilities. On the other hand, they cannot acknowledge that the drones are slipping through the defenses. All they can do is "own it" and minimize the news of damage. For now, at least.

AnaR737

These rappers are making money off the war. There are no good Russians.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In the same way we would blame Russia for any errant debris from a shoot down by Ukraine AD, we will have to then also blame Ukraine for the inverse. Although I agree that the official Russian narrative of taking 'blame' for it seems like an own goal as it's surely an easy win for propaganda. But then a wise man did once say to never interrupt your enemy while they're making a mistake.

Luke

The Russian Ministry of Defense's official position is the strikes are their fault, literally, because they used electronic warfare to disable the drones that then crash in random places. Not dismissing the responsibility, and I am speaking only for myself, not the team. I find the Russian position ludicrous to say, "we used electronic warfare, and whoops, it hit a building which was better than..." but that's their position. It isn't clear to me how this is better from a propaganda stand point beyond creating the illusion that Russia air defense can't be beaten.

I'm curious how you are classifying the Ukrainian drone/missile strikes on Moscow. Initially when it was rare, almost one off, and generally insignificant minor strikes I was happy to justify it as simply a way for Ukraine to try and break through the Russian internal propaganda to make the population wake up to the fact that to things may not be going as well as they were being told. Whilst they were occasionally hitting civilian buildings like apartment blocks, the damage was minor. But now Ukraine seem to have stepped this up and damage is starting to look serious and civilians are routinely being injured. If we're going to call the Russian strikes on civilians terrorism, I don't see how we can not call it terrorism the other way as well. Many of the places hit by Russian missiles and bombs are likely not the intended targets, but a result of using crap targeting systems and processes. I worry that if Ukraine keep escalating their drone strikes on Russian civilians (intentionally targeted or not) then it's only going to give ammunition to the bot space to seed more effective campaigns to sway western public perception. I hope that you're familiar enough with me through my past comments and brief conversations to understand that not raising this topic from a direction of bad faith!

Luke

https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1686446567253753868?s=20 I do not speak Russian to understand the lyrics, but going by the images it is a powerful statement on the war by Russian rappers.

AnaR737