Attack On Titan Ep 3x14 Full Reaction!

yep you just keep misunderstanding things, i think i'm gonna skip your discussions until season 4 lol

Xaniss

Adding from my earlier comment ,Aot is near realism not hard realism in physics vs something like Vinland saga,(which is a seinen ) which allows us and the show to have incredible action sequences, I think something You should know about anime it's from its history I see it's designed with emotion first in mind and other things later. Sure aot definately adds a lot of technical/ yams tried to make this as technical as possible to mimic near realism but that's to be appreciated not be entitled to critique like you seem to,.because that was never the norm for anime trends to begin with back then .Mangaka for shonen think about what would look cool first and foremost as that is the priority to get a good selling Shonen in manga. Considering its drawing they don't think or know about the laws of physics. You guys trying to nitpick that isn't a flaw of the show at all rather it's just on of the nature of the medium. Whether you have a valid critique of the physics or not is a pretty nuance discussion but 98% of time here prob not ,Secondly in regards to the horses while there may be some explanations, from a lot of anime I watched some things are considered background things if they don't really matter in the grand emotional impact of the situation. Maybe in a live action you would have equal distribution of attention between humans and horses but here we quickly switches scenes, to characters faces ,actions, and builds more hype which overshadows the other things. Another thing is an anime characters are focused in expressing themselves with their eyes many of the time rather than their mouths like we see in Avatar. But if you're going to not be able to take it seriously in the overall sense just because of the laws of physics obscure you and rather than focusing on the emotion which is extremely consistent and then that's you and the show is not for you because that's just a mismatch of mindset and experience. It's a bit worrisome now I can see you complaining about other things. Noticed at least you realize how heavy these episodes are. Atleast

Gu

So your saying , they don't care how does that in any way give validity to their critiques?,There's a a fair amount shonen things in play in aot , if he's trying to discuss ep by sp and then say X is bad because it's not like how we American drama show would do it, is ignorant and unjustly trying to harm the reputation of the show.

Gu

From my earlier comment ,Aot is near realism not hard realism in physics unlike something like Vinland saga,(which is a seinen ) which allows us and the show to have incredible action sequences, I think something You should know about anime it's from its history I see it's designed with emotion first in mind and other things later. Sure aot definately adds a lot of technical but that's to be appreciated not be entitled too.Because of the nature of animation you can quickly change perspectives much faster than you ever could in a live of action. Mangaka for shonen think about what would look cool first and foremost as that is the priority to get a good selling Shonen in manga. Considering its drawing they don't think or know about the laws of physics. You guys trying to nitpick that isn't a flaw of the show at all rather it's just on of the nature of the medium. Whether you have a valid critique of the physics or not is a pretty nuance discussion but 98% of time here prob not ,Secondly in regards to the horses while there may be some explanations, from a lot of anime I watched some things are considered background things if they don't really matter in the grand emotional impact of the situation. Maybe in a live action you would have equal distribution of attention between humans and horses but here we quickly switches scenes, to characters faces ,actions, and builds more hype which overshadows the other things.

Gu

LOL all these comments. I thought their reaction and discussion were fine haha 😂

Kay

To be fair, they have said that they like the show multiple times. And s3 doubly so. I think they are just talking about however they are feeling about it. Are the critiques totally on point? No, but some are here and there. And some of it might have to do with that aforementioned "watched a lot of series" (also being involved a bit in the industry), since that experience is going to come from network/western series. They haven't seen that much anime. Not saying that explains all the missed criticism, but those preconceptions and assumptions can have a domino effect.

ArtOfAdequacy

Exactly!! I watched a lot of reactors, and most of them missed some points and didn't understand some parts. But I never saw them calling the show "silly" or saying that something is a plot hole just because they didn't understand. N and C are always making funny comments about the show and disrespecting the autor, almost like they actually think they are smarter than the autor. It's ok if you don't like something, but at least try to really understand what the show is trying to present to you, before jumping in conclusion that everything you don't understand it's a plot hole and "silly".

Thalita Veras

Ofc high expectation has an impact. And frankly it's ok if they miss stuff, I'm sure all of us have watched plenty of reactions before and we know that reactors always miss some points BUT they at least try to be well informed in order to come up with proper analysis and discussions. And they don't call the story silly every two or three episodes, they don't go disrespecting the author by saying this is bad writing and talking things like they know much better and "they've watched so many series and movies". Their attitude is not appealing and unprofessional.Ofc they are free to do whatever, it's their channel but since we are the audience we are also free to respectfully criticize this attitude, and point it out.

Minerva Ravenclaw

I agree, there seems to be a lot of overly emotional reactions to their reactions, but I guess that's kind of the idea. People don't interact if they don't have some kind of emotion to drive them to it. The titan powers showing up conveniently does have a very deus ex machina feel to it at first, then you start expecting different powers to pop up. But it's hard to react to things you've already seen as though you haven't seen it before, which is usually why people watching reaction videos get so annoyed when the people doing the reaction don't pick up on minute details that seem so obvious to the viewer. But that's the risk you take when you decide to do reaction videos, I suppose. The insane amount of over-hype they got before starting this show certainly doesn't help though. Expectations make a big difference in how you experience something.

Jessica

Lol we're not taking anything personal, this is not the first AOT reaction we've seen, but this is the first absurd reaction we see. Are you not watching the same reaction? Just check how they're watching this show and try to understand the frustration. The only Deus ex machina titan power was that Reiner transferring his consciousness. Other than that it all makes sense since again we are watching fantasy genre not some documentary

Minerva Ravenclaw

Jeez, these comments... I don't understand how so many people take someone critizing a piece of media they enjoy as a personal attack... I agree with most of what your saying C+N, many small things were jaring to me too on my first watch, especially the deus ex machina titan powers. Despite that, AoT is still a contender for best series ever for me.

Kira W.

He talks over so much of the dialogue.

KratosRager

- This is what people are talking about when they say you guys aren't paying attention miss things. - "HOw diD MiKaSA bReak thrOuGh ERen's hArdening wHen tHeY coUldn't brEak thRough ANnie's???" - Eren this episode: Hardening that is concentrated into a specific place is denser and harder compared to hardening that is spread out, hence why he can beat Reiner's a$$ (Hence why their gear can pierce and break the walls, the pilllars in Rod's cavern, Eren's hardening and not Annie's super condensed hardening.) - Nerdy: Mr. "I've Watched A Lot of Shows", talking over the scene and not processing it as usual. - Pretty sure the thing about hardening was even hinted at earlier in the show

Brandon Thompson

And unbelievable. Yes totally agreed with you.

purpleracing

Some of this shit take about 5 minutes of thinking to understand 😂

Jay- Esque

Yea it's like you're saying this show is terrible and doesn't make sense but hey I'm enjoying it... So I'm not sure which statement I should rely on🤣

Minerva Ravenclaw

The disrespect they show for Isayama is unbearable 😅

Minerva Ravenclaw

At least half of your discussion points are easy to debunk ngl

Jay- Esque

I think you guys coming into the show wanting to prove that this show is not the greatest show of all time because you heard a lot of people saying that this show is the GOAT. One thing I can say about the confusion you have in regard to the mystery writing of the show is that Hajime Isayama intended to wrote it this way because he wants us (the audience) to experience what Eren, Mikasa, Armin or any other characters in the show experienced. He wants us to feel and experience what these characters are going through in their lives living in this AOT world, how everything is hopeless and yet still want to fight for freedom and searching for the truth. This and many other reasons why Hajime Isayama is a genius in story telling and story writing. It is 100% why to me he is one of the best if not the best author ever existed. I would go as far as why our Universities and Colleges want to make students study stories written by authors like shakespeare and others. To me these writers are so overrated and outdated and that the people who are running these curriculums are so bias and stubborn. They will never acknowledge or admit that newer contemporary writers are better than the old classical writers let alone Asian writers. Just ask yourself this questions, if AOT was taught in Universities as a core English course, do you think students will study harder and willing to learn more in class and trying to put more efforts in writing better essays? Of course they will. The world is always changing and credit must go to those who deserve it and in this case Hajime Isayama should be praised for what he has accomplished as a writer and a story teller.

purpleracing

Holy crap, this exploded, how do you manage it every time nerdy LOL

Thepaicoman

You guys watch Star Wars right? So you guys should understand what it is a FANTASY show. I really don't understand why you guys are complaining about "realism" in a FANTASY show.

Thalita Veras

I just imagined that if they watch JOJO, OMG it's horrible😱

ZQ.Yellow

To be honest, I've seen far worse reactions.* Theirs is by far quite decent, and they occasionally bring up important points, even though they overthink sometimes, or dimiss some details as "plot holes" or bad writing too quickly. AOT is not perfect, just like any other show, but in my opinion, it's far suprior to most other shows of its genre that I have seen. *There was one reaction channel of a guy and his girlfriend. The girlfriend clearly liked the show and was intrigued by the mystery, but the guy kept calling the show "stupid" because he wasn't getting immediate gratification in the form of answers to the mystery. They ended up abandoning it eventually (though the girlfriend was reacting on her own for a while). Some people are just like that, and AOT is just not their cup of tea.

Ideophagous

I think everyone here is being a bit dramatic 😂 they’ve clearly said they’ve enjoyed s3 a lot. Just because they have criticisms doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy watching it. You’re free to argue whether or not you agree with their criticisms but it doesn’t matter that much. Tbh reaction videos would be boring if everyone had the same opinion.

Moons

I definitely don't want them to stop watching now. I need to know how it ends at this point. Do they come around on it? Does something click for them later? Or do their opinions stay the same?

ArtOfAdequacy

Lol I’m not sure if they are really enjoying aot every time they nitpick the most pointless things lol but I think we will know once they caught up

I need dislike button 😞

ZQ.Yellow

Lol it’s funny that y’all still trying to make fact of certain things of the show that have not been confirmed. Hypothesis are cool, but the story isn’t ending. There’s a whole other season left. Plot tests happen and it’s part of what makes the show good. And not sure how the show is supposed to be taken as “realism” when it’s about giant human like monsters who eat people lol. At this point it seems like y’all aren’t enjoying the show and are just forcing yourselves to watch it for the views. That may not be the case but that’s how it seems.

Manny

Dude they don’t care about archetypes. They don’t watch that much anime

KratosRager

Yeah it’s definitely frustrating. I’m surprised this episode has so many comments. People are not happy.

KratosRager

@khalayx love,ofc they are entitled to say whatever they want, they can hate the show, say it's not their cup of tea and watch it the way they please. But when you are a reactor and start watching a show, mocking the characters since episode one, laughing during serious conversations, talking over important events, whining about literally the smallest detail... And then nagging about how the show is not giving you explanations when you've missed most of them while you were nagging about the horses, us as viewers are also entitled to criticize this behavior and attitude since we are the audience and we are paying money to watch proper discussions and analysis. It's like your College professor joking around the whole session, in every session, without giving you any beneficial lecture... Yea you'd say something about it. Sorry but they need to change their attitude. That's my advice ofc, I don't know if they take comments into consideration.

Minerva Ravenclaw

I personally agree with a lot of the other comments that are being made here. To add on top of it all, one thing that really got me was watching you guys laugh and make fun of the planning scenes. We watched you guys (especially Nerdy) complain about not knowing Erwin's plans in the earlier episodes. You went on multiple rants about not knowing what was going on... And now, they literally lay all the plans out in front of you aaaaannnnnndddd your still not happy. I'm going to keep watching your reactions for a couple of different reasons. But man does it get a bit frustrating lol

Hunter Cronin

But I mean how on earth it took them 3 seasons to understand that the show is fantasy? Literally in the first episode we see giant naked people eating people how is that a drama series by any means?🤣🤦🏻 Yes it is fantasy and "magical" elements exist but within the context of the world. The ODM gear works perfectly as explained, Annie reaching the scouts during the expedition wasn't something hard to swallow. I mean almost everything "magical" that appears is explained, with few exceptions. I just can't understand their logic honestly, I've never seen anyone watch a show like that. Imagine watching Harry Potter and saying that the wands are unrealistic I mean how do wands function?🤣 and the broomsticks don't make sense, their physics are out of the window 🤣

Minerva Ravenclaw

They simply don't appreciate the shonen archetype he evidently mocked it back in s1 ep 12

Gu

I am more interested in their take once they catch up to the show. I have given up hope on their takes for now. But it still makes a interesting reaction

David

You guys are overthinking things. The main plot of this anime and the characters are great, enough so that it goes directly to my top tv shows ever (not just anime). Even if there are indeed small details (like Annie's quick traveling, Reiner's consciousness moving, etc) that might not be fully explained, yet I don't feel like they're a big reach after knowing more about the world. I would split the anime into two: before the basement and after the basement. And it is true that before the basement, the plot is basically one of survival that keeps us engaged with both wanting answers and the action scenes / fighting for survival. After the basement though, the fact that the story is told this way starts making a LOT of sense. It is unfortunate that you are overthinking small details enough that it makes you not enjoy the show as much. It reminds me of a friend I have who works in making movies and now he can't enjoy the movies as much because he's constantly thinking about how the scenes are made and what they could have done differently, instead of just letting go and diving in what's happening. It is fine, AOT won't be as good for everyone as it is for me. Although I do feel hope that you'll mostly come around when you finish it. There's some real epic and amazing well written story coming up. The next episodes btw, are also amazingly well written and executed. Even if in terms of the plot, they're just "the fight", the details around it are really something. You'll love them too :)

Rafael Costa

@Khalayx the weapon that fires off the thunderspear is a modification of the weapon Kenny and the rest of the interior police used without the barrel. When they fire off a thunder spear they “swing” the thunder spear with their arm (yeet) and whatever propulsion is added by the firing mechanism adds force to at least penetrate soft tissue. The thunder spear never pierced Reiners’ armor. It broke the armor through explosive force. The explosion when the pin dislodges doesn’t feel like an extremely difficult technology either. That said you’re right, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But holy hell it stacks with these two, and Nerdy specifically. Three seasons long it’s “they’re not explaining”, but also “their explanations are too long”. Also not getting that Erwin is “gambling” because of a lack of information where he has to gamble on the best scenario outcomes. After Eren he learned of the possibility that titans could be intelligent, mainly the armored and colossal. He took that information and gambled that when he left for the giant forest, an intelligent titan might make a move for Eren. Based on the info they gathered during the expedition he learned the titan might be Annie, and devised a plan to capture her, knowing he could only trust a few people with the plan as to not alert her. He took a gamble by trying to capture her in the city by taking her underground, but she figured it out and the city got wrecked. He figured that would be worth it as long as she gets captured for info, but she crystallized. He learned and decided to do the complete opposite with Reiner and Bertholt by holding back, and it blew up because Reiner flipped out. There were still very little people he could trust within the military as well. Point is he gambles because he has to, not because he wants to. He has to surprise a very powerful unknown to get the upper hand. There have also been quite a few times of them complaining about stuff they claim wasn’t explained, except it was and they talked over it. There are also a ton of hints being dropped but it’s very subtle. For example in season one episode three there’s a scene where Eren’s head has steam coming off from the titan healing. There are shots panning to Reiner and Bertholt when the scouts talk about the armored and colossal titan, Shadis back in season 1 episode 4 also says something like “you’re son has become a soldier today, Grisha”, etc. Saying stuff like “ex machina” before knowing how it ends shows a lot of hubris. It takes a long time for the show to tie it all together for you, and it keeps you guessing in the mean time. That’s fine. But don’t get annoyed about stuff not playing out like you guessed it would before getting the whole story.

Stefan

It's studio trigger. And done in a very Trigger style. Wouldn't call it western.

Wangus

the thunder spears came from the guns that kenny had

diggs

no spoilers but lmao yall are way off on the ending lmao

diggs

honestly i think you guys have a really fun way of looking at and watching the show. i hope after you finish this, youll move on to something like naruto, fruits basket, one punch man, haikuu, yuri on ice, free, or heck, even a kdrama. thatll be a wide wide world to step in to. love you both. keep up what youre doing.

Snax

I mean, its still anime no? Any animation from japan is anime, if someone told me their only anime was edgerunners I wouldn't go "nah that doesnt count"

not_east

@ Ideophagous Rocket propelled weapons existed before electricity, yes. But the thunder spears look less like primitive firework-based rockets, and more like something designed by NASA. To me, anyways. Regarding the idea that the world is evolving and changing - sure, if the Scouts had invented these weapons, that would be consistent. But the entire plot line around Reiss and the Interior Police is that they tried to create this perfect little paradise where curiosity is discouraged. Why would they develop weapons of war when there is nobody to go to war with? Why would they develop better anti-Titan weapons when they are resigned not to fight back against them? I'm not trying to say thunder spears are impossible, or that it's impossible the Interior police developed this tech in secret. The show wants me to accept them and move on, and to just enjoy the fight scenes. And I do. I love this arc. I just think the spears are very much a convenient thing they throw in to allow Scouts other than Eren to fight with Reiner. Most of all, I'm only continuing to push back on this because I find it kind of offensive that so many people think it's impossible to find this convenient. You are welcome to disagree with me, but I (and N. and C.) should be able to disagree also, without being accused of not paying enough attention, not giving the show enough credit, arguing in bad faith, or other "agree with me or you're watching the show wrong" stances. Isn't it enough that we all enjoy it, why do so many of you insist we all enjoy it in the exact same way?

Khalayx

Yeah there's a lot of hubris in Nerdy's take on it based on his "having seen a lot of shows and movies" as he put it in one of their reaction vids, but when it doesn't pan out as expected it's because of the show. Like now they're complaining that there's too much talking and explaining whereas a season ago the complaint was that there wasn't enough being explained. I strongly feel they're only watching this show because it generates revenue on YT and Patreon, but they already decided back in season 1 that this show is bad and they are gritting their teeth as they hate watch it to the end. EDIT: I will say that this episode with Reiners' "ability" of transferring consciousness annoyed the everlasting sh*t out of me as well because it felt incredibly contrived.

Stefan

Edgerunners is directed like a western animation I said to them it doesn't count as anime experience.

Gu

Well obviously I'm not going to list off everything that gets solved with magic because spoilers. But memory wiping is an early example, and there are many more to come. I actually think you and I are agreeing - the show is fantasy and should be taken as such. My point is that people misled these two into thinking it was more science fiction or mystery, the sort of thing that can be solved in advance with logical thinking. As they said in this episode, now that they know it is more of a magic-based world, they can stop trying to dissect everything and just enjoy it more.

Khalayx

The reason why Mikasa and Levi are able to be as ruthless as they are is because of their pasts Mikasa having experienced cruelty from humans early on in her life made her pretty quickly apathetic like you said, Sasha and Connie don't have those pasts so I disagree that everyone should be as equally ruthless, considering it's only two young usually lighthearted characters it still.makes sense .also we saw how caring . Sasha was in season 2 and how emotional Connie can be about his family and cadets, and are hesitant because they looked up to Reiner as a brother figure which was mentioned in s2.

Gu

To be fair ... Honestly, they haven't been taking the show seriously since episode 1 ... They keep dismissing important information, mocking character choices and monologues,discussing useless points during an important event or conversation and throwing the word silly every two or three episodes... So I'm not sure how they have been taking the show seriously 😅 maybe that's why we're frustrated not because they don't like things, I've watched reactors present different opinions than mine but they were constructive and professional at least.

Minerva Ravenclaw

I do think that all the immense hype by the AoT fans is what is the main cause behind your criticisms about the show. It's clear that you came in with a certain level of expectations and mindset which is preventing you from experiencing the work the same way as someone without much pre-knowledge of the series. Because these things have been hyped incessantly, it's understandable that you have high expectations for every facet of the show which either don't reach that standard or is not overtly satisfying to what you've been promised. I am a fan of AoT too and have read the complete manga, however I always felt it was a mistake to portray it as some perfect story the way its most ardent supporters do since I don't consider it perfect, or the best series; the hype gives unrealistic expectations and assumes that everyone has the same taste or reaction for certain elements. Attack on Titan does have its problems, though the problems I have with it likely will differ from yours. To me, it's similar to a few of your Wheel of Time book club readings where your expectations of the books set by the fandom are not manifesting in the same you expected, so the unmet standards adversely affect your enjoyment of the series. I feel that if you experienced the series the same way that many in the fandoms have (without an immense amount of hype, talk of being the best ever, or needing to follow a set schedule in consuming it) then you'd come in with a completely different experience and outlook on quite a few of your reactions.

Hiro

I don't think their critique of the story or the characters or the plot is really the issue, at least not for me. I think it's just the general attitude of dismissiviness that is rubbing people the wrong way a bit. I'd like to see them engage more with trying to understand the questions they have and things which they find confusing rather than just bringing them up and dismissing them as poor storytelling, or plotholes. Especially when their whole audience is yelling at the them to "trust the process" and their response is just, "no, our fans must be wrong, there's no way any of this makes sense."

Wangus

I totally agree with that. My best friend wouldn't even watch Game of Thrones because she hates the Fantasy genre overall that's why I can understand. But what's confusing to me that they already watch this genre... The points they are arguing about can be easily argued in other series they have watched but I didn't see them do that ... That's why I find it utterly weird. But yes I am also taking this approach I'm not expecting any proper discussion anymore I'm just intrigued to see how this will end.

Minerva Ravenclaw

True, he definitely remembered that show wrong lol

not_east

Not taking ANY show too seriously is very important in my opinion. Any show can disappoint you, because the people who make it are just human, and they could get tired, overworked, pressured to deliver some plot elements, or simply misread the expectations of the viewers or what could be entertaining for them. It's all just entertainment in the end, and we're the lucky ones, because back in the day people rarely could have the chance to see a good show (when a touring theater band passed by their village or such), or enjoy a new good story (not the same one repeated by their big aunt for the 1000th time). That being said, people who told you this show has a great story and a very consistent plot were not exaggerating, they're just far ahead in their knowledge of the events. Maybe you will like the revelations when they come, maybe you won't, but after you're done with the series, I would recommend a rewatch, to notice breadcrumbs of foreshadowing (within the story, but also within the EDs) that were placed by Isayama along the way. You're not supposed to guess the plot (unless you're Filmbuff), but it makes you appreciate the world building more on second rewatch.

Ideophagous

Pretty much my attitude at this point. Even if they completely hate the show after they finish, I would be interested to hear their point of view about everything. Like, my wife doesn't even want to watch it, because she thinks it's too dark for her taste, so I get that not everyone will appreciate it the same way.

Ideophagous

To play devil's advocate here, whatever Nerdy and Clarus' problems are with the show, are valid. Maybe not for everyone, but there isn't much that can be done about that. If something takes you out of the show or story, then it takes you out of it. And it's valid to be annoyed by their annoyances. As much onus as we put on them to change their perspective and preconceptions about the show, can be put on us for our perspective and preconceptions about their reaction. I'm going to try and stop expecting a certain reaction to each episode or twist and instead make it a mystery as to what they'll think of everything at the end. Now I wanna see how this all plays out.

ArtOfAdequacy

Fr it was specifically Reiner

Gu

I look forward to what the voice of reason (you) has to say on every video.

KratosRager

Don't get me started on HP. I just enjoy it for what it is, because if I start to dissect it, the holes in the universe construction of Rowling will never end. There's just too much that goes into building a rich and consistent fictional universe, for a single person, even if they were a genius, to pin down completely with zero mistakes.

Ideophagous

It's plausible for the Interior Police to invent a destructive weapon just because it's technologically possible for them to do so. I don't see a plot hole or plot convenience here. Quite the contrary, it shows that the world of AOT is evolving and changing, the people adapting to their circumstances in creative ways, just like in the real world.

Ideophagous

Rocket propelled weapons literally existed before electricity in the real world, what are you talking about?

Ideophagous

What mysteries are solved with magic? They still don't know half of the mysteries or even the story itself... The memory wiping is a detail in the story and I mean it's a fantasy story it's not drama comedy, if they want realistic genre let them watch Succession which I genuinely recommend as a great drama series. But AOT is realistic by the themes it represents just like Harry Potter.

Minerva Ravenclaw

@Aaron Wittwer I agree with every word. How do people enjoy fantasy genre if they have to nit-pick at every little detai. Try watching Harry Potter with that attitude and it'll be the worst movie ever. Try watching Star Wars while nitpicking on how Luke managed to be A Jedi in such a short amount of time. And many and plenty inconveniences.

Minerva Ravenclaw

I do have a gripe with people who hype aot for it's plot when the plot really shines if you come into it with expectations of not having a plot ,really bad way to sell the show as it makes you think " but why aren't we getting more lore? , More enchantingness?"(That will be addressed )not ones caring about plots since the beginning. ,I think you're not caring about the background plot in this current episode is intentional and adhering to shonen design yes it's a battle shonen the action is supposed to be at the forefront.this isn't stranger things,or some drama show, I think you also expected this to be kind of like Avatar or Fullmetal alchemist which is also not what aot is, aots story structure is very unique even in anime for what it is ,I rarely have seen something like it but makes sense, altho it is about survival at this point which is something that has been consistently executed, you're not supposed to care about the story right now just the characters as your going .its a not really a flaw moreso a usage of the expectations a battle shonen has. I The stakes are humanity vs the titans with humanity being the epitome of heroism and seeing our heros finally beat the big bads, which is still exceptionally done with perfect execution in my opinion,side note your supposed to hate Reiner ,bethold s2-s3 , hate the beast titan etc, The problem is you are expecting to be subverted. Edit: I also think you guys shouldn't have felt pressured to have a long of discussions in the episodes of season 1 2 as many of them were impact oriented rather heavy writing.

Gu

Sorry,Is this the first time you watch Fantasy genre? Cz last time I checked Star Wars is not a drama thriller. I don't understand why are you criticizing the "magic" parts when you clearly know it's a fantasy genre?! It's not Succession or Better Call Saul. It's like Harry Potter and Lord Of the rings . If I have to nit-pick at every inconvenience in these movies I'd never be able to enjoy neither the story nor the characters. AOT is a masterpiece story, with brilliant character writing and intriguing philosophical themes. I don't get how Annie being able to catch up with the scouts in her titan form was a mystery to you and I don't get how this ruined your experience. I would've expected these interpretation from people who have never watched fantasy or sci-fi genre ... But I don't understand, even you've watched Chainsaw man, a man who literally transforms into a chainsaw with plenty of inconveniences in the anime but somehow AOT does not make sense. Sorry but this is a very disappointing reaction. We respect you ofc and you're entitled to your opinion as we are entitled to criticize this.

Minerva Ravenclaw

To be honest I was pretty annoyed with the reactions at first, but now it makes sense when you consider the expectations and mindset coming into the series. I don't know if it was a miscommunication or misunderstanding on what kind of mystery the show would be. Someone asked if you liked puzzles, then sat you down in front of a Jigsaw when you were expecting an Escape Room. While they are both puzzles, their journeys are different. The pieces in Attack on Titan that you are given, aren't keys and codes so much as they are just more of the picture. While you can speculate and guess at the next piece based on the shape and context, you aren't expected to know for sure. The end of this puzzle isn't a "win", it's a pretty picture.

ArtOfAdequacy

I think they are the personality type more resonance with shows about people problems. Also they haven't seen aots philosophical things yet. I personally didn't like csm

Gu

It's not that big a deal, I just think it is super convenient that these suddenly get invented within a few weeks, or even more convenient that the Interior Police had already developed them without any real reason for doing so. You are free to disagree with me of course, but acting like there is no room for disagreement or like this is all bad faith discussion is kind of ridiculous.

Khalayx

I think you're underestimating the amount of technology that the thunder spears represent. You make it sound like fashioning a bunch of identical, aerodynamic, hollow metal tubes in a few weeks is easy for example. Why would they have the equipment in place to do this? And it's all the more unbelievable when we consider that technological advances in this society have been suppressed. You think that the same community that imposes the death sentence for inventing a hot air balloon can invent a thunder spear? These are not low-tech fireworks style rockets, they appear much more contemporary in design. And the detonators alone are not based on lighting a fuse with a match, they seem to imply some sort of electrical charge. This is not a bad faith argument. You wrote a very long comment - generally that indicates you are open to discussion about it. Now, all of that said, I'm reading up on the history of rockets and will admit that maybe some of this technology would be possible for them to develop (but it would be much more rudimentary). I still think it's inconsistent given that the Interior Police would not have a reason to develop rockets for large scale war, given both that the Reiss King is committed to peace, first of all, and that he already has the ability to win a war with his Titan powers, secondly. And they certainly weren't developing rockets for planes or space exploration.

Khalayx

Because they surely had never made a metal tube before and clearly don't have any access to combustible substances. Or maybe the show should have stopped dead in it's tracks to explain how exactly all of these things were obtained/invented. I'm sure nobody would complain about the pacing of that at all. Treating everything that isn't explicitly explained in depth as a deus ex machina is just such a bad-faith approach to critique. You don't even have to be terribly generous to make the mildest assumptions about how they could have made the spears in that time, and just move on. The show clearly isn't interested in delving too deep into it because it would detract too much from the story to take such a wild plot detour to spend 3 episodes inventing a weapon. They give you a title card and that really is good enough for you to figure the rest out for yourself.

Wangus

I admit that I'm being intentionally a bit provocative in calling it silly but I really think that all the people who try to introduce this as an extremely intellectual show or mystery to first time viewers are doing them a big disservice. Nerdy and Clarus are absolutely right - much of the "mystery" is solved with magic and on the first time through, there are many possible ways the show creators could have taken things. It's only retrospectively / when rewatching that things fit really neatly together.

Khalayx

While I like Chainsaw Man a lot, I don't agree with it being a narrative masterpiece like everyone claims it is. There's weird powers, awkward dialogue sequences, plot conveniences, and anime tropes just as much as Attack on Titan. So I'm slightly confused why you guys (and a lot of people I've talked to) are infinitely more harsh on AoT and not CSM. It's like it gets right of passage for being fun and silly but AoT isn't allowed to have its moments.

James

It's not even *just* rocket propulsion. They would need machine tooling capable of making the spears, they would need to invent the detonators that trigger the explosion, they would need something combustible to go inside... Which of these technologies had the interior police already developed? All of them? Why would they do that when up until very recently, they served the Reiss king, who is committed to peace at any cost and maintaining the status quo? This is entirely different technology than the anti-human gun weapons. Not comparable at all.

Khalayx

I would say they are both right and wrong. There are certainly things you just have to accept as the conceit of the show with regard to some insane things the powers of the titans can do. On the other hand we all know a lot more is thought out and explained than they know of right now. I'm sure they'll continue to enjoy the show as we get through the next three seasons (oh wait I mean season and a half haha, man those release schedules were crazy)

Anna Kyruin

How is it a silly anime when it represents very dark and realistic themes in life but they happen to miss everything each episode they watch?! Like literally the bystander episode was a huge example. Then what can we expect when the story gets deeper and more philosophical?

Minerva Ravenclaw

Most likely the MPs were developing a similar weapon for policing as we saw they had developed those gun weapons earlier. So when Hange asked their engineers for an anti-Armor weapons, they just repurposed those developments to create the thunder spears.

Wangus

No. Not really. They already had ODM technology and they understood the principles of propulsive weapons and explosions. It's super nitpicky to call that a plot contrivance because you think it should have taken them longer to invent them.

Wangus

there’s a mid episode title card explaining that the technology for the thunder spears was something that was kept secret by the MPs and the people in power which the scouts just overthrew

TK

" I get criticizing Reiner's random survival power. It is, admittedly, extremely convenient. But to also lump thunder spears in as a plot convenience is crazy. They knew they were going to fight the armored Titan and had two months to come up with a weapon to counter his armor. They didn't previously have this weapon because it wasn't necessary for fighting normal titans. How is any of that a plot contrivance. " You don't think it's convenient that a society that doesn't even have electricity invented rocket propelled weapons within a two month time period?

Khalayx

But when he said he didn't remember any tropes in DBZ... now that is wild. Like, talk about extended,, anime-style inner monologues. That's like 90% of that show.

Wangus

Reiner wasn't actually 5 min monologuing its time dilation in anime it used in introspection scenes.also yes that was kind of evidence since the start of the show, laws of physics aren't respected to hard realism degrees.just near realism which is enough to still appreciate weapons innovation. Aot definitely makes strong efforts to show it's respect to laws of physics however ,tho it's not something I would say to ever feel entitled to. In the same way you prob view a live action where the baseline is hard realism ,because the norm for anime was less so to begin with. Also idk about the horses personally,that sounds like a detail that could easily be adhere to but it really doesn't matter that much with it so many other elements being at the forefront in the episode. Keep in mind magaka aren't US writers they have much tighter deadlines and have to draw , the fact isaYama could put this level of detail is more of a testament to his mental abilities edit : I will concede that there was high amount of inner monologing I guess even pushing luc for anime standards this ep just a bit tho. So I do see some respect to that point. An alright critique.

Gu

They just get hung up on these things and never actually think them through. Reiner was their friend for 2 years and it's only been 4 months since they found out he was the a titan. The scouts were never being trained to kill people, and they certainly never thought they would have to kill their friends. And you are going to say if it was you, you would just go blow your old friend's head off with absolutely no hesitation. Wild. Also, that forest is where Eren and Mikasa gathered wood as children, there's no way it was 10 km away. They weren't walking 10km for some sticks. God this discussion was the most frustrating they've been in a while. Just a rapid-fire list of questions about perceived inconsistencies without any attempt to actually think through those questions or try to make sense of those things they think are silly or inconsistent. They just write any potential answer off as "too convoluted" or "unrelated" to care about. It's so dismissive. And they also dismiss any internal monologue as just boring filler, and totally ignore what is being said or the characterization involved in those monologues. I get criticizing Reiner's random survival power. It is, admittedly, extremely convenient. But to also lump thunder spears in as a plot convenience is crazy. They knew they were going to fight the armored Titan and had two months to come up with a weapon to counter his armor. They didn't previously have this weapon because it wasn't necessary for fighting normal titans. How is any of that a plot contrivance. And it wouldn't be a mystery if you could figure everything out by the end of the 5th episode. Those "surprises" you are getting, aren't answers to the mystery. They are the clues that should help you come to the answer, but they never actually consider the implications of anything that happens. They just write everything off as silly deus ex-machina. Oofa doofa. Done with my super long vent. I hope nobody read all that. I'm still enjoying this and am deeply invested in whether they turn around once they know more. I just wish they were evaluating it with more of a sense of curiosity now, rather than the presumptiveness we are getting.

Wangus

They didn't freeze because they were gonna kill Someone. They froze because they were about to kill Reiner. He was their protective big brother figure and its hard for them to muster the will to do the deed

Ferenczi Laurentiu

One thing I can say with a high degree of certainty is that the negative comments these two have gotten on the first three seasons will be nothing compared to the hate they get for their reactions to s4. Pretty much guaranteed.

Khalayx

Glad N + C are finally on the same page as me - it's a silly anime that you are supposed to just watch and enjoy. All the big brains in the comments probably made things a lot more difficult. Sure, there's a lot that you can pull apart and talk about on a rewatch, but the first time through it is not really that kind of show. Still very curious what the reaction will be to s4. I have a lot of mixed feelings (I've actually stopped watching for awhile and am a little behind on episodes) and suspect these two will feel the same way.

Khalayx

Honestly the whole tropes thing I do understand, when the only animes youve seen are shows like Bebop and Edgerunners which are so different than your average anime, getting into the rest of the medium where you start to see these tropes can be offputting, although I didnt have the same issue as someone who grew up with anime. Nonetheless, AOT does still deviate from a lot of typical anime stuff in its own way, and in the end it is just a very fun show to watch, like you guys said.

not_east

nono, i actually agree with you on this one, this show (or any other show for that matter) should not be taken TOO seriously at all times, because focusing on that will distract you from the elements that make the show great and enjoyable like the characters interactions, motivations, and dialog. I think this is a problem with many shows who are extremely popular, people sell them like flawless and there´s not such thing, this is a TV show, not a historic tale based on a true history or something, even GOT or breaking bad have moments that make me raise an eyebrow and they are incledibles pieces of writing

Thepaicoman

Yeah that's definitely disappointing, really hoping that the end of the season changes their perspective at least a little.

wheatfat

“I don’t care what they have to say anymore.” Big yikes. Hope is disappearing from these two. Hopefully Episode 57 is the answers they want. And Season 4.

KratosRager

Good post-discussion, glad you're enjoying it more. Completely disagree with a lot of it of course, like I'm not sure where this idea that the lanterns just have infinite energy came from, or some other things. Seems you felt some things might not make sense and it's making you greatly exaggerate the contrivances, but otherwise great thoughts. Looking forward to the rest!

wheatfat

These guys r too funny, they’re talking as if they know what’s gonna happen 😂. Genuinely I respect how they challenge a lot of aspects in the show and at the end of the day they are entitled to their own opinions but some of these takes come off as straight up arrogant - acting as if they know what direction this show is gonna take an all. Ofc that’s fine but I feel like u do urself a disservice w/ that sort of mindset.

Ibinhio