Thor: Ragnarok LIVE! - What should we talk about?

Oh wow. I totally missed it didn't I? Ah to live one day ago in the fair States

I’d like to hear your thoughts on Waititi using "Immigrant Song". It's a really smart move that foreshadows the Asgardians' transition from being powerful colonialists to refugees. When you first met Thor in “Ragnarok”, Waititi expects you to focus on the cool song, not its lyrics: vikings destroying foreign lands and then making peace with them. Hela is the embodiment of that past, but Thor has to know this information in order to heal himself. The last time we hear the song, it has new meaning. Thor accepts his family’s bloodshed and his own might. He uses his power not to invade other planets, but to protect his own people. “So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing”. PS: Also it’s sad how after “Ragnarok”, in “Infinity War”, the Asgardians are the victims of double genocide. First with Thanos killing half the survivors on their ship, and then by The Snap.

Yeah! The Asgardians have been telling their version of their colonialism since the first "Thor". Even if Thor and Loki are unaware of the real story, they are willing to commit genocide. Thor, because his ego was wounded, and Loki because we wanted to impress Odin. Thor's arc allows him to be humble and refuse being king.

I do think they went for the punchline a few times when they should've let the scene play out naturally. This is the first time Marvel humor felt a little overboard to me. Also, I don't want to take away from the movie being colorful, but it's also the first time the sets felt more like sets. Surprisingly, while this is Taika's film, some overall seams in the MCU started showing a bit more, like the conveyor belt style of production. And just to be clear, I'm a big fan of these movies.

Why We Watch

I'd love to hear some talk about the use of color in the film. It is so incredibly vibrant, especially compared with its predecessors. It looks more like Guardians than any other Marvel film.

Thoughts on the structural/thematic role of Hela as the villain? I love this movie and I feel like there's a lot of awesome stuff about that character but somehow my gut says she just doesn't feel quite like the villain for this movie but I can't quite place why. Would love to get the team's take on what she brings to the thematic conversation of the film and how she affects the protagonist on his journey.

Zac Seehusen-Besky

Was just thinking that I want a convo on the way humor is used. Personally I was very onboard with *most* of the humor but also definitely see the case of anyone who says it detracted. Would love to hear the team's take on if the humor worked (especially when put in moments that should be tense) with why/why not?

Zac Seehusen-Besky

I'd be interested to hear a discussion on the tonal difference between the whacky high jinks on Sakaar and Asgard stuff which is much closer to the normal Marvel snark.

Ctolm

Did Taika Waititi actually get greater directorial freedom than some other Marvel directors on this one? Or is that an illusion? If he did, then how/why? And what was the box office result? From another angle, did Marvel step in at any point to override Taika's voice? If so, did it help or hurt the finished product? Can we even tease that apart when weighing box office vs. critical reception? In other words, is even greater creative freedom for the creators potentially lucrative for Marvel? Or is that case too difficult to make?

I feel the exact same way!

One think that I would liek your opinion on is the deatch of the Warriors Three. I know that the audiences might not have been very attached to them, but Thor was. Shouldn't their deaths have mattered more in the storyworld? Or is it okay if the audience doesn't really care either (because its entertainment after all)?

I heard a pretty substantial amount of the final movie's dialogue is ad-libed. Maybe a guessing game of what's scripted/what's ad-libed?

Robert Jeffers

This might be obvious because it was so divisive in the fandom, but it'd be interesting to hear you guys talk about the way humour is used (or over-used?) in the movie. Personally I don't in principle have an issue with Thor being silly, but I felt the fact that the movie basically never passed up an opportunity for a joke meant the more serious moments didn't really hit because of the light tone, and I started just expecting the jokes, which meant they stopped landing. Like I think a lot of the jokes were kind of obvious, and I could've done without some of them.

Sophie

I'd love to hear an opinion on how you think some of these Marvel movies in general would work if you just watched the mainline films of one character. Like would you be able to follow Thor's journey across these four films without watching any Avengers at all?

Ugh... I'll be in NJ visiting family, but I'm excited to listen/watch after the fact. Bouncing off what John said earlier, do you think you can discuss the pros & cons of using a comedy to (lightly) analyze loss (Thor loses his father, his hammer, his friends, his home)?

Keith Moser

It'd be cool to hear your opinions on the two different approaches that we've seen on Thor as a character. The ups and downs to taking a character who is a space alien Norse god too seriously

Josh

Easy topic: discuss how comedy changed Thor, whether for better or worse. From the screenplay to Taika Waititi's direction to Chris Hemsworth's acting and comedy timing.

I look forward to your discussion on this movie on how this movie is not only is fun and comical but also covers slavery, loss, poverty, inequality, defeat, AND friendship, helping others through trauma, starting over, etc - big themes for a movie with a cartoon villain with a sex barge. I know you guys like Patrick (H) Willems’ videos, and his video on what is the point of R-Rated supes is great. Even with Hulk being so dower, they didn’t let it pull everything into a grungy mess, though his trauma is so important to the ongoing plot, as opposed to brick-at-head approach of the dialogue & action of the DCEU. Thor, Hulk, Valkyrie, & Korg are all traumatized, and all have to work through it. This could have been an Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind! This movie is a crazy-fun action supe movie about emotional trauma & loss - Who knew it could be done! I know the MCU is fun (overall), but this stands out, especially against the bleak DCEU at the time - do you think it was a culmination of the MCUs quest to be lighter, or a specific choice (by the production/direction team) to push back against the bloody gritty supes in modern culture in general? I don’t know the source material, but any team getting Jeff Goldblum as a Rick & Morty baddy is not making a traditional MCU villain either. References: What’s the point of r-Rated Superheroes? (Patrick (H) Willems) https://youtu.be/6dfI_2dscGE The Problem with DC Action Scenes: https://youtu.be/3p-lyt78cyA (The Nerdwriter) PS: I can’t see it live (it is 2AM Japan Time then), but I look forward to seeing the stream when it is finished.

John willis

Would love to hear your thoughts on the theme of colonialism and writing over the uglier parts of history. Loki rewrites history at the beginning with his play which paints him as the hero (as portrayed by Matt Damon lol) and then Hela shows that the original bloody history murals on the walls have been painted over with peace treaties and garden parties. I noticed they hit a similar theme in frozen 2 and I think it’s a fascinating trend.

I’d love some talk on the queer coding in the film, specifically in regards to the bisexuality of Valkyrie and the implied sexual relationship between the Grand Master and Loki.

Luis

Would be interested to hear your stance on the tone change and reshaping thor. Is the lack of consistency of the character in the mcu worth it for the end result of ragnorak?

I'd love to hear your takes on the role and impact improv can have on a script! Not everyday you do a movie with such a heavy improv component!

JMW Music

Hooraaaay! 👏😀 Very happy with the movie chosen, and the hour of the event 😜 5pm works just fine!

Nuno Vale