Our next episode is on Avatar — what should we talk about?

I know the episode came out already but that y’all are going to have a Patreon exclusive episode about the next movie. I was curious about elemental stories. Not sure if that makes sense, but avatar is basically dances with wolves in space and Pocahontas is like the og story. Outsider (white) in the beginning sets out to destroy indigenous people only to love them and try to save them at the end. Then splash in some romance and bam those are the movies. So I’m curious why this type Of story is getting told over and over and why certain stories seem to be used again and again. Movie tropes, yes that’s what my questions is about. :) thanks for all that you do , I love y’all’s thoughts about film!

and/or how NOBODY ASKED FOR SEQUELS

How as amazing and innovative as the visuals are, they still look kinda fakey. (Same for the new trailer.) Why? What’s the hump we’ve yet to get over?

Just finished watching this for the first time. I can see how people reacted in 2009 to the spectacle of mo-cap animation, in an IMAX theatre AND in 3D. But in 2022 I spent half the time not caring about the characters and the other half wondering who the hell the movie was for! It read like a children’s movie, (“unobtainum” anyone?) but was incredibly violent in the last act. Also what was with all the narration? Just show me.

Sera Prince McGill

I'm curious about why it's resonated with so many people even though the story itself is extremely simple/basic. It's full of cheesy one-liners, simple characters, and *unobtanium*... and yet it's also one of my favourite movies.

Mortegris

Why does the movie feel so fleeting ? I find that it almost disappears from my mind an hour after watching it. Cameron says his intent is to use the avatar movies to reach people about the environment, in what ways does it succeed or fail to do that? Would the movie work better if there was some nuance to the colonials ? How would you change this for the better?what movies do a good job for a calling people to action?

Does the story and screenwriting of Avatar stand up once the CGI is stripped away? I.e. would it still work/work better/not work at all if it hadn't been an allegory for colonialism and been a straight up examination of the subject in a historical setting

Chloe Minish

How much does James Cameron owe to James Horner?

andrew

I saw Avatar when it was first released, and the only thing I remember 13 years later is Sigourney Weaver's line, "Who's got my goddam cigarette?" It made me cringe, as do many of James Cameron's lines. (Am I the only person who hates, "Get away from her, you bitch!"? I really do hate that iconic line.) I'd love for you guys to talk about Cameron's dialogue, the pros and cons. Thanks!

Cherie

Over use of narration

Cameren Ceniceros

Would love the team's take on Prince Zuko's redemption arc.

Zac Seehusen-Besky

Possibly the extended edition compared to the theatrical version. I love Avatar but I love the extended version even more because it goes deeper into some character and world building elements.

Exposition, Exposition, Exposition

...And what does it say about James Cameron that all of the above could be said about another one of his movies? ((talking about Titanic here lol))

Jesse

Avatar seems to have one of the more dichotomous (🤓) legacies of any recent blockbuster. It’s the top-grossing movie of all time, but also one of the more mocked/dismissed. The storytelling is heavily criticized: -Plot is derivative/generic -Dialogue is clunky/cheesy -Poor acting from some cast members -Only popular because of its innovative visuals On the other hand, it seems to have super-strong narrative fundamentals: -Dramatic structure -Setups & payoffs -Distinct themes -Archetypal characters ...Also those innovative visuals are reflected in character & plot (Jake's reaction/immersion into the story-world matches our own). What do you all think? Why is the most popular movie also one of the most derided? Does the "average movie-goer" (versus us obsessives) forgive and/or not notice derivative plot/dialogue & instead tap into the narrative structure & themes? You’d think it’d be the opposite, right?

Jesse

Another criticism I've seen quite a lot online is that the characters of Avatar are forgettable / haven't had the same cultural impact as characters in other blockbuster films. I'd be interested in hearing the Beyond the Screenplay team discuss what makes a character memorable.

You have said James Cameron does a great job writing Archetypes. What archetypes are in this one? Thanks

Kyle Marquis

I always come back with there are really only 7 stories so you have to get creative.

Kyle Marquis

Hey gang! It seems like one of the real criticisms levelled against AVATAR in the years since its release has been how supposedly derivative the story is: "It's Dances with Wolves with blue people! It's Pocahantas in space!" etc etc. My question for you guys is if you think it's possible that the archetypal nature of the story actually kinda benefits the experience of AVATAR? When Walt Disney made Snow White, he specifically chose a fable that everyone knew so that audiences wouldn't have to expend too much energy following a complicated storyline – he wanted them to be able to luxuriate in the (then-groundbreaking) visuals. Do you think James Cameron was taking a similar approach, and that the simplicity of the narrative is a strength of the movie rather than one of its weaknesses? Excited for the episode, and for our next hang when I'm back in LA! Al Horner

Avatar - When I first saw this movie, the marine general was a “kick the puppy” cartoon. It took me out of the move so often. It was like they pulled a US general from the 1800s, used to fighting Native Americans. I’m sure that was intentional. With the war in Ukraine, my first thought was “wow, this genocide now seems more believable” - yet the horrid things we see in Ukraine is (mostly) from the bottom up, whereas we are constantly shown the company & marine leader as bad people (top-down). Do you think they really needed such a cartoon as the big-bad guy? Couldn’t they tie him and his hatred/distain for the Navii into the story better? The rest of the story was so earnest and magical, then to have Cobra Commander leading them felt like it weakened the conflict a lot. Patreon - Whatever you end up talking about, please mention things brought up on the Patreon, especially if you disagree or think it is wrong. 😊 One was called out in the Tennenbaums, I think they should be pointedly addressed by the team. I have commented on the last couple posts, and I make some assertions - I would love to hear why I am wrong or missing the point, too simple of a view, etc. I loved the greater insights you brought to my attention, and if I am missing something important or misinterpreting a thing that your keen screenwriter eyes see - I want to know why I am wrong or missed. I don’t care about my name being mentioned or anything. 😊 TL:DR: try to mention themes topics brought up here (“a Patreon member mentioned,”) , especially if you disagree with them or think they’re too narrow. I think they *can be possibly maybe* good discussion points.

John willis