Dune Club 2 Session 4 Qs

The second movie is "CIndarella the cat"

Wow! The tale of the tales!!! I've loved it! So happy you stumbled into it. In 2017 another really good animated movie based on that body of ancient tales came out. I'll sure rewatch it! The second pronunciation of the director's surname is the correct one, by the way ;)

Can you give your interpretation of the Wormsong quote on p191?

Red Sonja's mate

I have always fantasized about automation emancipating humankind from drudgery, freeing us to follow our higher passions, but the theme in the Dune series seems to be that adversity makes us stronger. Question: would you rather suffer and prevail in a Dune universe or live a peaceful life in the machine augmented order of the Star Trek universe. I would rather make art all day, but I find working construction makes me tough.

Lucas Fehr

Hi! Just wondering what Hayt could be referring to when he said "there are things I must do as a ghola that I would not do as a man" (end of page 196).. byeee

Glad to be joining the live sessions after purchasing Dune Box 1 & 2, not being able to finish the first book till only a few weeks before # 2, and then getting behind because of continued struggles with depression & anxiety, finishing school and a new job, etc. I do find this novel more intriguing than the last. With this and the last book I can easily see how repeat readings can bring new discoveries, etc. – can be very dense and deep with many levels in them. Reading along with audible & looking up words in the dictionary still can leave feeling like I’m barely comprehending. Anyway, on to the questions: 1) Is it ever addressed what Edric is exactly – a mutation or human-hybrid, and why the guild navigators are like this? Is it because of the spice, something else? Sorry if you addressed this in Session 1 or 2, haven’t watched the Q & As yet 2) In the last chapter, it is mentioned about Paul’s experiences in the crowd – stuck in and target of “ritual apologies and fears” – no matter what we do we all have that gut ‘trained’ reaction and can’t help but be caught up in the mix, the human need to be part of something bigger than one’s self. Reminds me of another great quote from a mediocre movie – Men in Black – “A person is smart. People are dumb stupid animals and you know it!” ;)

So this has nothing to do with Dune (you don’t have to answer on the livestream), but I wanted to ask you about your eczema treatment. A while ago on a past livestream you mentioned how you used a holistic approach to actually heal your eczema and I wanted to know if you could give me some guidance on what to ask for/look for when searching for a place/doctor. My 18 year old cousin has REALLY bad eczema all over her body and face, like her skin is completely discolored, inflamed, and wrinkled, and after you talked about your eczema treatment I told her and her mom about it but they were trying out another eczema cream at the time. Spoiler alert it didn't work and she wants to try that herbal treatment. If you could please give me any recommendations or if you know someone great in the LA area, it would help a lot. Thank you for always giving me more information than I expected!

Daryn Wood

These chapters really seemed to highlight how lonely and isolated everyone is. Obviously Paul, he looks around and only sees strangers, even Alia... I kept having moments where I felt a yearning for Jessica to be back to try help him with his isolation :( But it's not just Paul, Helen Mohiam seemed isolated as she was forced to walk the miles and miles throughout the citadel. Then also Edric and Scytale interact and Frank Herbert describes how they both deeply distrust each other's actions and even see each other as either weak or an omen! And finally the intro to the final chapter talks of how there will always be interludes of lonely power... Is this just a truism of life? It's lonely at the top but we all will have moments in life where our paths diverge from the ones we love... Or is Frank trying to say something more about lonliness and destruction?

Cazzamatazz

on p.188 Scytale says Paul has no permanent civil service, but later Paul reflects that a new type of civil servant is coming up throughout his empire who prefers Routine and Records. (p.211) I'm not sure if that's necessarily a contradiction. Is it?

Is it just me or does it feel like those fremen that fought with Paul are against him, because they old vets miss the old ways and those who grew up in Pauls new empire take there water forgrantted and forgotten there old ways. They lost there sense of history and thus, of whole they were and those who didn't want Paul to fall . .. . . ?????

For previous week: On orgy and statecraft: consider animal husbandry (corralling wanted genes and giving space for wild genes to appear) and statecraft in a world of hegemony (monarchies and zaibatsus). It's a long long long game sculpting those relationships. This is what I think is meant. Not orgy as a lascivious event, but as a crucible pit, an alchemical work bench. Invite your hopeful studs and mares and roll the dice. Not the only way to get the job done, but another tool.

Clear Menser

Paul continuously follows the vision and feels trapped by the vision, but there is no deviation as the book continues. When at the end of page 207 he thinks about telling Bannerjee about Scytale impersonating Otheym's daughter. But, he thinks to himself "No! Such an incident hadn't been written on the screen of his vision. Any deviation have carried precipitate violence. A moment of fulcrum had to be found, a place where he could will himself out of the vision. If such a moment existed..." Maybe it's the case of Sisyphus rolling the boulder, in spite of knowing how it ends, but the effort to get it done is what matters, in this case for Paul. Maybe, for him, following the vision is the way to get out of it? Probably speaking the obvious by the way it ends, but it's like Frank Herbert talks about freedom and liberty in paradoxical, contradictory terms. Hola from insomnia.