Children of Dune Club Session 11 Qs

New to Patreon.. just came here to find the video of a Kabbalistic explanation of Paul’s awakening from book 1.. halp!

These Dune Clubs have been a highlight of my year since book one. 🌅

Does Duncan retain his memories in all subsequent incarnations?

Lucas Fehr

Did they ever say what happened to the sons of Jamis? I'm looking forward to that scene in the movie where they come out ready to rock!

That last chapter with Ghanima with the dead worm and ruined spice... Have we seen bad spice before? How does spice go bad? Too much oxygen? Inquiring psychonauts want to know.

Clear Menser

In the prescience battle between Leto and the Preacher Leto realizes the reciprocal nature of weapons in war. It reminded me of a quote from a general I can't find. Does: "Every new weapon you develop expect your enemy to use on you in five years." sound familiar? I missed War Club, so it might have been in there.

Clear Menser

I was confused about the revelation that Muriz worked for Alia. If that's the case she should have known the true identity and whereabouts of the Preacher... unless Muriz was feinting within a feint, which I love and support. Also, Leto affirms the Sisterhood suspects the possible extinction of humankind and that this justifies the course of action adopted by Lady Jessica. I fail to understand how .. thanks!

Earlier in the book Stilgar is thinking about Ghanima and how she told him death is nothing to her because she's experienced it so many times... but has she? If the memories are passed on as described up to the time of "spermal separation" then Alia, Ghanima, and Leto II should only have memories of each of their ancestors up to the time that they fertilized the next person. So all of their memories that they inherited should be of people who were generally young and in their prime. Ghanima should not have memories of death because hardly any dead people have sex. Presumably any memories from the female side also should end at the time of fertilization, or birth at the latest. So why does Herbert have Ghanima say this? Why does the "spirit" of Baron Harkkonnen seem to know things that happened long after the point where he should? The personality inside Alia should only have knowledge up to the point that the Baron fertilized Jessica's mother. Of course he may have access to Alia's knowledge, but he acts as though he is the Baron from Paul's time. Why does Herbert write the ancestral personalities this way? Do the inner personalities have all of the knowledge of the pre-born person? Do they each have all of the knowledge of all of the others? Is this made more clear in any of the later Herbert-ian books?

observation 'Buer' and 'Agares' (without the 'v' in Agarves) are two more Devils in the Lesser Key of Solomon.

So, we begin with an intro about climate change. In a way, Herbert is prescient there, but perhaps he did not realize rapid climate change would absolutely be noticeable within a lifetime (as it is now). What are your thoughts on the parallels between Arrakis and the worms disappearing so that only a select few realize or pay attention to what is happening to our ever scarier climate change? Second, we get more confirmation that the Preacher is indeed Paul, and as impotent as he ever was. If his vision is against Leto's and he would like to prevent it, why does he not explain to Leto what he sees rather than just wallow in denial? Well, he does because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of his impotence, still do you think more discussion of opposing visions would provide better conflict between Leto and his father? After three books, Paul's fatalism and inaction is really tiresome to me. I was so happy when he walked into the desert of his own volition to die, yet Herbert walked back on the one decision Paul ever took that did not feel pre-ordained. Well, you know where I stand, but feel free to use this to go on a tangent about what constitutes good vs bad retcon.

PJ B

I can't believe it's already the penultimate class... I don't understand what Paul's goal was. I thought he was still trying to retroactively undeify himself. I thought that was why he was working with the Cast Outs who hated the Atreides, to force everyone to realize the folly of his religion. But when he meets with Leto, it is said he went to Jacurutu to renew his own Legend. What did Paul think he could accomplish that would make the Golden Path unneeded? Also, not a question, but I thought it was clever that the Fremen use polygamy as a method to identify male sterlity. Historically, if a woman couldn't bear children it tended to be assumed it was a flaw in the woman, when it was more than even money that the problem was on the man's end. I enjoy knowing that the Fremen, who have to take great care to maintain all aspects of life including reproduction, instituted polygamy not because of male desire, but to root out the men who couldn't continue the clan's bloodlines. Just one more example of how utterly dedicated they were to survival.