Fabrication 2.0
Added 2021-08-31 12:35:59 +0000 UTCOkay, so earlier this month I shared my first [somewhat distilled] batch of notes on a new concept for fabrication, which was pretty raw and still not thought out in great detail, but worth throwing out there for people to see the kind of direction it might be headed in. That post was followed by a good amount of feedback and discussion, and after taking a bunch more notes I let them sit for a while while with plans to revisit the feature soon. I've since sat down to further refine the concept so it's time to look at the next iteration.
New fab system notes (attached as a file so you can actually read them, too--sorry but my notes format doesn't translate onto Patreon without spending forever reformatting all the tabs and oddities trying to import it here causes):
(Don't worry about acquisition for now.)
As you can see this system doesn't completely replace the old one, unlike the even more radical earlier concept, but is this time more supplementary in nature, also simplifying things a bit in the process.
And like I mentioned among the comments last time, it's hard to fully predict the results of this kind of change, but the approach we'll probably take in this case is to implement it as a true experimental build to test just how workable this system is. So not unlike Beta 11's earliest attempts at redesigning the overweight propulsion mechanics, it's possible this system would be completely reverted back to the original state if this idea doesn't work out.
After a number of iterations and theorizing about it, though, I'm starting to get more confident this will be a pretty fun and effective addition, and a welcome set of changes overall?
What does everyone think this time? :P
Comments
No idea about whether increasing the difficulty of schematics would actually happen. That was just a random possibility listed in that last section as an example of a tweakable element for balance purposes, since it's hard to predict what the full results of this system will be until it's actually built, so I wouldn't even think about that right now. (It's common while making notes to list out all kinds of, many of which I tend to leave out of public versions of my notes because they can lead to premature speculation like this xD) As for the other bits, we'll have to see how it works in practice once I've actually built it :). I can't really dive any further into details beyond what's written above until the system is put together, because this is just notes and while under construction things tend to continue changing as necessary until they don't :P This is just to provide some sort of guidance to make sure the architecture is worth building, and details will be filled in later once that stage is done. Of course all the info will be shared here eventually once that version is ready for testing.
Kyzrati
2021-09-08 07:26:56 +0000 UTCI kinda like the sound of this, but I have some questions about the exact functionality you're describing. Loading a schematic consumes an authchip, but then can that loaded schematic be fabbed multiple times or just once? When going the hacking route is the limit one upload or one fab? I really like the design goal of moving fabbing from something that hacker bots can do incredibly much and everyone else can do hardly at all. I don't know if increasing the difficulty of schematic hacks is consistent with this tho....
whisper
2021-09-08 07:15:32 +0000 UTCHeh, if you think this is overly complicated, you should've seen the original fabrication system we had at the beginning of Alpha ;) (if you're not familiar with it already, anyway) Technically this system is already simpler than what we currently have in Beta 10, since on direct comparison it completely eliminates both opaque supporting systems (lockouts and matter) while only adding one supplementary above-the-board option (Authchips). A form of credit-based approach was considered here, but not for very long since it has too many design drawbacks. On this point it's worth mentioning that the shop and credit concept is something that has to do with the Merchants expansion, which this is not--what we have here is merely Cogmind accessing a system that is *not* meant to be used by unauthorized bots, a fabrication network built specifically and exclusively for Complex 0b10. Thematically and lore-wise it works better as described here. In the end it seems like the main thrust of your idea here (regardless of the extended features) is "simplifying it down to credits," but that's something I'm very much against doing with 0b10's fabrication system. The simplicity can be nice in some respects, but it comes with the drawback of converting everything through a single currency. It would also be too similar to the type of system Merchants will probably end up with (where it makes more sense and there's an actual economic slant, rather than in 0b10 where no such thing exists).
Kyzrati
2021-09-04 06:02:29 +0000 UTCI think this is overly complicated, honestly. The first pitch was better. Food for thought; Take whatever parts you like: Think of a Fabricator as a vending machine. It displays options. You insert credits. It makes you a thing. Better things cost more credits. You can also try shaking the machine or sticking your arm up the output slot (hacking) but you might set off the alarm. Vending machines have limited stock either way. There are different types of vending machines: one for soda, one for candy, one for airport electronics. Also think of it like a carnival (or Chuck-E-Cheese). You play games and win tickets. You redeem tickets for toys at the ticket counter. Better toys cost more tickets. You can save up for one good thing or buy many cheap things. In this vending machine model, interaction is simple: You carry a "wallet" (an item) for fab credits. The wallet has a displayed capacity like matter storage utilities do. Better wallets hold more credits. Spend credits at a Fab to redeem for toys. Obtain credits from almost anywhere you can think of. The sky is the limit. If you like the vending machine model, you can have a lot of fun with it: - Different Fabs have different class and depth-aproppriate items "on display" for fabbing. Better fabs have better stuff. (This lets non-hacker bots participate in the fabbing economy too) - You can differentiate fabs into content groups: Weapons, Utilities, Propulsion, Bots (rare), Random Assorted Airport Electronics, etc. - If you want something "behind the counter", the Load Schematic option remains. You still need credits however. - Hackware lets you try to jank the machine and get free stuff or off-limits stuff. And set off alarms. - Credits can be found ("hey, a wallet on the floor!"), earned (odd jobs, interfacing with other machines, trade for scrap), traded (other types of currency?), gambled (oh, the mini games we could play...), gifted (wealthy benefactors), stolen (to steal and be stolen from), and spent (and not just on Fabs either). You've commented on someday making RPG-style shops or having some kind of in-game currency/economy. This might be something to revisit now. Fabs can be the new "shops". Its not overly difficult to implement. We just need to consider the potential for abuse. If you want to go all the way with it, Credits can be promoted to a first-class stat (like matter and energy) instead of needing a wallet item. Then we can also have recycler credits, scanning credits, repair credits, fab credits, terminal credits, or just one Credit to rule them all. PS - Thanks for making these beta releases available. Its making pandemic life much more enjoyable. I'm happy to contribute.
leiavoia
2021-09-04 03:31:35 +0000 UTC
