doughelvering - In the Court of the Crimson King - King Crimson (Extended Play Lounge Ep. 3)

I first thought 73/74 was the musical measure in the Moonchild

Илья Ясный

2024-09-20 23:13:42 +0000 UTC

Your application of the term deconstruction to Moonchild, the night, throws my mind forward to one of the band's latest studio recordings, The Construction Of Light. Moonchild was, frankly, a longeur not readily skipped when playing vinyl, so let it flow over the ear and mind. I think Ian McDonald brought his military band training to the feast, whereas Robert Fripp was exploring abstraction and deconstruction.

George Davis-Stewart

2024-01-26 09:22:18 +0000 UTC

Isolated bass and drums from Lake and Michael Giles. Insanely in synch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_7Db-Q7XoU

Kathy Ratino

2022-08-02 22:57:58 +0000 UTC

Thank you, Doug for that analysis. I have always been intrigued by the lyrics of the title track. I think they represent the machinations of a political body and/or environment including all the competing and allied moving parts involved as they jockey to gain or retain power or to achieve their own agenda. Also, I think it alludes to the fact that those who wield the real power are not necessarily the ones who hold the titles or those who occupy the offices of power. Epitaph for me is a song of longing, and of course. admonition. The use of the mellotron only embellishes that fact and IMO, it’s some the most evocative instrumentation in popular music. I Talk to the Wind is just a beautiful song featuring woodwinds and Greg’s amazing vocals.

Gerard Dion

2022-06-09 03:14:15 +0000 UTC

Agreed. It went on too long (and Wilson, with Fripp's consent if not demand, edited it by 25% for this edition), but for the first 4-5 minutes or so, it really was rather special (in a good way, cynics!). They ran out of ideas before they stopped playing, sadly...and while the gesture of moving toward a major pentatonic feel kinda felt like an ending, I would have preferred something more overtly connected to the main tune to tie it up, if nothing else echoing that minor chromatic chordal descent...maybe going from that F-sharp half-diminished 7th back to the A minor with Fripp's characteristic added 2nd would have been sufficient to point us back in the direction of the main tune...

Jeff Norman

2022-03-08 02:59:43 +0000 UTC

For me, I "understood" this album, one day, listening to it as I was walking down a street. And it was during the second side, at the end of Moonchild, when I heard the pomposity of the title track, that I got it : I had just listened to a modern version of the primordial myth of the passage from a natural "other" to the all-encompassing and not-necessarily-all-good "civilization (kind of like in the tale of Gilgamesh). And it occurred to me that the second side is an allegorical representation of what is alluded in the first side : namely, the "civilized world" ended, in fact, as a tragedy. The Crimson King is neither good nor bad. He is beyond it, and that's the trap : the world is not a duality between good and evil, it is as "other" as primordial nature seems : predatory, animal, unpredictable, terrifying.

Éric Gagnon

2022-02-25 05:05:57 +0000 UTC

New member here. Don't you think that in these days of streaming a track picked off an album has lost the impact of the concept album. If you just pick a track you miss the circularity of the opening and closure of the artwork. It's like listening to just the overture to an opera and missing the story.

Jools Lee-Webb

2022-02-18 22:44:48 +0000 UTC

On the sad day that the death of Ian Macdonald was announced I had to come here and watch this reaction video again. While doing so, it struck me just how much of this album was Macdonald. A true genius and possibly the one who invented King Crimson (then left Fripp to deal with it...)

Chris Ramsbottom

2022-02-11 18:55:20 +0000 UTC

Just signed up today and catching up on older episodes. Laughing out loud at your reaction to Moonchild! My view: the first vocal section is great, but the ending? Hated it when I first heard it, hate it now. A complete waste of space. The other 4 tracks are magnificent but this one I always skip. It's not just you Doug! LOL

David Harris

2022-02-09 20:16:27 +0000 UTC

The mastership of Lake and Sinfield make this album what it is, the Steve Wilson remaster really opens up the original mix. Epitaph appears on many ELP concerts usually in the battlefield piece of Tarkus. To believe they recorded this in 1968-69 on 4 and 8 Track tapes is amazing. Steve Wilson recounts how dumb founded he was with the way they had utilised layers on 4 tracks. I dad bought this home in 1969, and and I was 10/11 years old, it blew my mind. Amazing album!!

Itsfun2listen

2022-01-04 20:16:36 +0000 UTC

The way you say this album is split in two sides with the personal and detached views of the world make sense. I've always thought of it as a man in the 21st century who goes insane and tumbles down the rabbit hole so to speak as he watches the world around him crumble. The resulting fantasy on side b is his insane revelation

Olivier Ouellet

2022-01-03 07:49:34 +0000 UTC

King Crimson are masters of tension and release

Dave Desilets

2022-01-02 06:01:33 +0000 UTC

It is interesting that you compared the vocals in 21st Century to John Lennon. Greg's vocals in the other songs, especially I Talk to the Wind, convey a world-weariness which was one of Lennon's vocal signatures.

Dave Cohen

2022-01-01 19:51:27 +0000 UTC

Oh no, there absolutely is. This wasn't it; this was the complete version. But when Wilson and Fripp put together the remix, they removed a few minutes of the long jam session. I guess they bothered Fripp all these years. And then the full-length version was a bonus track. See, here's the entry on Discogs, with timings: https://www.discogs.com/release/11048824-King-Crimson-In-The-Court-Of-The-Crimson-King-An-Observation-By-King-Crimson

Ray Sincere

2021-12-18 20:14:21 +0000 UTC

This was great. I would love to hear you do one of these for the Discipline (1981) album some time.

BRIAN MILLER

2021-12-18 07:06:58 +0000 UTC

Steven Wilson included a longer version of Moonchild on his awesome and faithful to the original mix. I do not believe there is a truncated version of this track.

Skyline Drifter

2021-12-18 01:21:37 +0000 UTC

I've thought about something, at various times. The top hit in 1969 was "Sugar Sugar" by The Archies. You listen to that song, and then you listen to this album, and they don't even sound like they were recorded on the same planet, let alone in the same year. I'm excited to see this music blow you away. The winds. "What is this?" The band comes crashing in. "Woah!" This was one of my favorite albums growing up. Just phenomenal stuff. I know, right? This is how they opened the album! And the next few albums, they just could not capture that same lightning. The very next album reduced this album to formula and fed it back to us. The next ones just did not have nearly the energy. This album really does stand alone. You listen to the stuff they were recording leading up to this, you do not get a clue that this album was going to result. Ultimately, this album stands alone. Interesting point you can note: The first two songs on this album have saxophone. The last two have mellotron. The middle one has both. I'm remembering that photograph of a Vietnamese girl running through the streets with her clothes having been burned off. "Innocence/innocents raped with napalm fire." If you listen to the album continuously, you come hot off the chaos of "21st Century Schizoid Man", right into the cool of "I Talk to the Wind", with barely a breath between them. The first side has a fantastic flow that way. Oh, but that's not a keyboard part. That's Fripp's guitar. Can't you hear the way that last note slides? I think he might be playing harmonics, actually. There are earlier recordings of the song that do end there. (And they're mostly in the key of A, rather than E. There's even a BBC recording with Greg Lake where the song is still in A.) To be clear: they are Mellotron strings. Let that not be overlooked. Mellotrons have a very distinctive quality. This is one mix where Steven Wilson's job is very close to the original. I like the original a little bit more, but Steven Wilson's is cool, too. I think, in particular of the last track, where one of the bridges is lighter and more flighty in Steven's mix, where it had a bit more weight in the original version. But in "I Talk to the Wind", there's a moment where two flute tracks have been edited together a bit roughly in the original, with the flute even changing position in the stereo field, and Steven fixed that edit. So, any case, where the important things are concerned, these two mixes are very, very close to one another. The main differences are just a bit of EQ. Oh, also you don't get so much print-through, like you do on the original master. Oh, but wait, if you're listening to the remix, you probably get a shortened version of the song "Moonchild". It had a longer improvisation in the original version. And Wilson included a full-length version on the box set, too. Rather than hand drums, they sound like they're being played with mallets, and heavily dampened. Keyboard? Sounds like a vibraphone to me. Time for the Daily Drug. When I first heard it, I was totally open-minded to it. Along the way, some other people made my mind less open. But I think it's opening again. Oh, hey, sounds like you got the unedited version there. Rule of thumb with acting, and I'd imaging it applies to music, too: if it sounds like improv, it's improv. You can compose something that sounds like improv, and have the musicians play it in a way that sounds like improv, if you and they are both really talented, but you get better, more natural results if you just let them improvise. Here comes the part that sounds like Santa on the roof! You hear? Those sleigh bells, so soft, and then the heavy footfalls. Santa is on the roof! Merry Christmas to all from King Crimson. A crimson king is, apparently, a king whose reign is particularly bloody. So make of that what you will. Actually, the flutes are more like the puppets dancing. Oh, I think you're into bonus tracks now. Sounds like the wind session. The classic album ended with the big climax at the end of "The Court of the Crimson King". Maybe we're not into bonus tracks. Maybe Steven gave us an Easter egg. Because that was not on the album I grew up with. Let me look. "After the end of The Court of the Crimson King, there is a hidden-track run from 9:41 to 10:00." Apparently the CD I had short-changed me. I think maybe a lot of the CDs out there did that. Incidentally, a long time ago, I carved the album cover into a pumpkin for Halloween. (No pictures, sadly.)

Ray Sincere

2021-12-13 02:47:52 +0000 UTC

Once when playing Moonchild's improvisation section live, Michael Giles on drums was ever so slightly tapping the tops of his cymbals, progressively getting quieter, until there was no sound. Robert Fripp got irritated by the silence and took off his boot and proceeded to start banging it on the stage as part of the improvisation.

The Black Queen

2021-11-18 23:26:22 +0000 UTC

One very special album, that in many ways is a perfect snapshot of the time and place and what things were like. Folks these days, don't seem to think that one song was more about Vietnam and the the Irish bomb thing in those days, than anything else, and the big one ... I talk to the Wind ... and still no one hears it, or listens to it!

Pedro Sena

2021-11-16 00:06:00 +0000 UTC

The virtuosity was in the middle section of Schizoid Man

B Mac

2021-10-17 00:34:38 +0000 UTC

Definitely RED

B Mac

2021-10-17 00:09:57 +0000 UTC

I also have the 50th Anniversary set which is really worth buying as it has a lot of isolated tracks.

B Mac

2021-10-17 00:08:47 +0000 UTC

Doug, I have the old vinyl from way back and I would say that the flute and woodwinds are a bit louder brought up front more.

B Mac

2021-10-17 00:07:45 +0000 UTC

Doug, That's not a syncopated keyboard. That's Fripp on his Les Paul playing a very clean tone.

B Mac

2021-10-16 23:55:32 +0000 UTC

Please consider doing KC's "Red" album or "Discipline"

grnmntl

2021-10-15 00:50:33 +0000 UTC

This was my first time listening to this album. Glad I did. I listen to and enjoy King Crimson's most recent two albums, Power to Believe and Construktion of Light, but have not listened to anything prior to that. Love that you talk about the lyrics in these videos.

Tempest Meridian

2021-10-04 16:35:59 +0000 UTC

To really hear their improv check out some of the studio sessions from "Islands." Downright free-jazz sounds at points there. Also, that album has an absolutely gorgeous title track.

Blinky

2021-09-07 15:48:19 +0000 UTC

Fantastic album! I don't really care for the neverending improv section in Moonchild, but apart from that i think it's a 10/10 throughout!

Robin Sjölund

2021-09-06 17:21:15 +0000 UTC

Hi Doug Did you claim that this was the first progressive recording. The Moody Blues (1967) and the Nice (1968), for example, had both released well known prog albums before this and King Crimson took the Mellotron sound from the Moodys, Emerson hated the instrument and wouldn't use it.

Paul

2021-09-05 23:16:24 +0000 UTC

"I don't care that much for their later work, but absolutely love this one" I'm with you on that. I'd like to like them more, but I don't. The Crimson King was the pinnacle for me. Moonchild I can live with but remote controls have improved it a lot over earlier vinyl releases 😁.

Nick

2021-09-04 16:20:12 +0000 UTC

Yes, I've been enjoying those too. So Fripp the brainiac does have a sense of humour 😁.

Nick

2021-09-04 16:13:04 +0000 UTC

I guess it depends, there are both categories. Atom Heart Motjer probably - for me - rather falls into the 2nd category. I haven't heard the Cocteau Twins.

Murdock Moriarty

2021-09-04 10:32:27 +0000 UTC

"It is a groundbreaking album, though not one I feel like playing very often." That's an interesting observation, which I've also noticed and I think is characteristic of... groundbreaking albums. There are two more in that category for me that I can think of: Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother and Cocteau Twins' Treasure. Is it because they're great but demanding or is it simply that I like to keep them fresh for each playing...? Not sure.

Nick

2021-09-04 10:14:50 +0000 UTC

Timeless classic. A beautiful, unified artistic statement. However, for the ultra virtuosity you simply must progress to ‘Larks Tongues in Aspic’. It’s a cosmic kick in the pants.

Philip B

2021-09-04 08:49:18 +0000 UTC

I would say Schizoid is the dawn of progressive metal virtuosity.

Anthony Taylor

2021-09-04 02:40:51 +0000 UTC

I've always likened Opeth to Crimson.

Anthony Taylor

2021-09-04 02:21:34 +0000 UTC

It is such a unique experience to share the experience of your hearing this for the first time when it is something I have owned for 45 years or so and to some degree take for granted. You help me reconnect with my joy and wonder at first discovering this music.

Mark J Moerman

2021-09-03 23:09:04 +0000 UTC

Really cool to hear your thoughts on this! I think the improv section of Moonchild should be shot into space to never be heard on earth again. Nothing in comparison to the improvs of the 73/74 band (i.e. Starless and Bible Black) Edit: Oh, and I think the sound at the beginning and end are of an some kind of Organ being turned on and off.

Cornelius Fastie

2021-09-03 23:04:09 +0000 UTC

I've just joined, having enjoyed your youtube reactions to music that I fell in love with in the late 60s early 70s. King Crimson were so original, still are, but now you must go on to Wake of Poseidon or Lizard. Lizard was a departure for Fripp, surrounding himself with a host of jazz based musicians.

Bernard Dawson

2021-09-03 22:53:39 +0000 UTC

Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother , for sure! Please, Doug!!! I have just joined your patreon, you have been doing great to help us rediscover/enjoy our favorite pieces of music! And I enjoy , besides the Daily Doug, my Daily Bulleit as well! somethings at the same time! Greetings from Brazil

Nelson Br

2021-09-03 19:54:06 +0000 UTC

You could make the case that some of the more intense moments in Schizoid qualify as the beginning of metal (maybe not so much the heavy as the metallic); I think this is prog in the best sense before virtuosity became the rule. Much of the ensemble playing (including the starts and stops) is quite astonishing - and they (to a large extent) did it first. BTW, I can't blame Ian McDonald for Foreigner - that was mostly Mick Jones wanting to be a rock star and going for it. The other thing I find fascinating is the chameleon-like aspects of this recording - as Doug noted, sometimes it's like an entirely different band is in the mix, which may ultimately be why they continue to be so influential.

Steve MacArthur

2021-09-03 19:42:37 +0000 UTC

Thank you so much for that experience, Doug. I'm delighted that you enjoyed the album. I was a 12-year-old boy in 1969 and just beginning to wake up to the marvellous variety of modern music available to me (Hendrix, Pink Floyd, etc, etc). I was fascinated by the cover of The Court of the Crimson King and, when I heard it, was spellbound by the drama of the music, though too young to appreciate the subtleties of the lyrics. Your interpretation of the side 1 / side 2, human condition / spiritual condition had never occured to me and I will listen to the whole thing again over the next few days with that in mind. As for the music itself, it coincided with my first discovery of classical music independent of my parents' stock of Mozart and Beethoven, namely Stravinsky and the Ballet Russe. I've always been struck by the similarities of this King Crimson album and Stravinsky's Firebird, Rite of Spring and Petruschka ballets. They all share an irresistible mix of the dramatic, the terrifying and the mundane, with occasional outbreaks of chaos. If you're interested in following Sinfield's gestation of the first three KC albums (In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon and Lizard, all of which were conceived to belong loosely together) you might like to follow this link: http://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/Metaphysical.html. The Hohenstaufen Emperor Frederick II figures as Stupor Mundi, thus Zeus, who represents both the spirituality and the royalty of the Crimson King. The story is tied up with the Tarot cards - and especially the Emperor card. I wholly agree with you about the suitability of long videos for albums such as this. To select an individual track out of context would put us in the territory of Pavarotti sings Puccini's greatest hits. This works much better and does justice to the music. Why listen to Nessun Dorma when you can have the whole of Turandot? Could we have Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother sometime...? Their least-known album and reviled by the group themselves, it's always been my favourite. I'm sure you'd love it 😄.

Nick

2021-09-03 19:19:12 +0000 UTC

Thank you Doug for this. It is an extraordinary record, and all recorded on 8 track, with no Pro tools! Just talent and amazing creativity. In my mind Progressive Rock really stopped around the late 1970's/early 80's. Everything had been done by then and whilst there is still a Progressive movement out there, I'm not sure that any of it can ever really get close to the raw creativity and outrageous musical talent and invention, that started around the mid 1960's with Pet Sounds, and Revolver etc. What an era! I'm fortunate enough to have experienced a good chunk of it!

Richard Worrall

2021-09-03 11:32:18 +0000 UTC

i love ambient music so i don't mind the improv. and king crimson just does it so well! they have a few others throughout the years, very ambient avante garde kinda stuff. speaking of which, you should check out here come the warm jets by brian eno! i think you'll get a kick out of it.

Eric

2021-09-03 08:38:39 +0000 UTC

I could be completely off my rocker here, but I can hear the later Opeth sound in this. Doug did Moon Above and Sun Below that I hear during ITCOTCK here.

Arrow2theACL

2021-09-03 06:11:55 +0000 UTC

Interesting going through this with you. It is a groundbreaking album, though not one I feel like playing very often. The opening track, of course, is a classic, but the very gentle "I talk to the Wind" has become my favourite. Strangely, I never warmed up to a lot of the rest of the album.

Murdock Moriarty

2021-09-03 05:44:16 +0000 UTC

Thank you Doug for this video. KC is so unique and unlike anything you will ever hear. Red is my fav from the 70s and it’s a beast! Would love to hear your opinion.

Mark Saxon

2021-09-03 04:22:54 +0000 UTC

Many thanks, Doug! If you do another King Crimson album, I would definitely suggest, "Discipline." Or, if you're looking for just a single song by Crimson, i would recommend the tune: Frame by Frame off Discipline. It's a very underrated and powerful song for sure.

Evan

2021-09-03 01:07:11 +0000 UTC

One thing that I was always fascinated by is that a brief homage to the chorus of Epitaph was sung by Greg when they would do Tarkus live, at the end of Battlefield.

Russell L. Craft

2021-09-02 22:04:32 +0000 UTC

Like many, I was never able to get "into" Moonchild, and for the longest time I would skip it. I could still do without the improv bit (Fripp at his worst imo) but don't find it unlistenable any longer. I love the album, but find most of King Crimson's catalog to me reminiscent of Moonchild and less of ITCOTCK, so unlike the big King Crimson fans, I don't care that much for their later work, but absolutely love this one.

Russell L. Craft

2021-09-02 22:02:58 +0000 UTC

Also, with the last song: it's not uncommon for rock songs to use suspended chords, but this is a rare example of a rock song that prepares the suspensions. :)

Matthew Weber

2021-09-02 21:39:29 +0000 UTC

Re the improv on "Moonchild": it's certainly of its time, but as Lou Reed would say, in that it is not charmless. :) That kind of stretching out is something they would do more in live performance; subsequent records were judiciously edited, and indeed "Moonchild" on this reissue cuts several minutes of the improv from the original release. One of the things that really strikes me on this record is how orchestrally conceived it all is; not just in terms of the Mellotron adding strings and other sounds, but how Michael Giles plays the drums--more like an orchestral percussionist than like a standard rock drummer. It's one of the most stunning debut albums I've ever heard, as KC springs fully-formed from Fripp's brain (and McDonald's) like Athene from Zeus' thigh. I can almost forgive Ian McDonald for Foreigner!

Matthew Weber

2021-09-02 21:36:00 +0000 UTC

Be not afeared of space, the source of all cycles and phenomena.

David Marshall

2021-09-02 21:02:23 +0000 UTC

Nicely done, Doug. Definitely prog ground zero. A true classic, but I will admit to never really getting into the free improv section of "Moonchild". Otherwise, great stuff...

Martin Broten

2021-09-02 20:24:14 +0000 UTC

After I had listened to Moonchild, it reminded me of The Cecil Taylor Unit.. I never liked Mingus because he was too cautious in his improvisations

Wade Markham

2021-09-02 19:13:31 +0000 UTC

This was for sure something else than i expected. But still cool. Would love a bit more harder rock into it as well. But maybe thats why i am a pure metalhead, hehe. Well Nice work as always Doug. Keep up the good work. Totally digg your chanel.

Vei Hei

2021-09-02 18:49:22 +0000 UTC

You’re right…I was forgetting the first tune. Time to listen again!

R. Douglas Helvering

2021-09-02 18:18:30 +0000 UTC

About the woodwind/pipe organ noise at the beginning and ending: on my vinyl record from the early/mid '70s neither is present. So they are later additions additions or left out on this issue.

Frits van Voorst

2021-09-02 17:38:35 +0000 UTC

If this album came out this year, it would be considered to be an avant-prog or a rock-in-opposition album. Personally, I think it is the root of those sub-genres.

Wade Markham

2021-09-02 17:02:43 +0000 UTC

As far as your comment later, about this being more melodic and less virtuosic, this is a theme of early prog. Early Genesis was good about that, as were Yes while Bruford was still with them. "Prog is about instrumental virtuosity" is perhaps a misunderstanding of guys like ELP who were virtuosic, but used it to show off the melodic soundscapes they wanted to create. Early prog artists could be virtuosic, but it was a means to an end, not an end unto itself. Of course Pink Floyd, the most successful prog band of all time, were not virtuosos by any stretch, but they were still solid players and great composers who made moving, powerful music without needing to stretch the boundaries of what a talented artist could perform. As time went on, it became easy to point out the mechanical chops of an artist like Bill Bruford or Keith Emerson, and harder to talk about something more complex like the composition of the artists.

Blinky

2021-09-02 16:38:15 +0000 UTC

I have been listening to this album since I was very young. At that time, I didn’t get the Moonchild improv, although I think I did know that’s what it was. Yet I never skipped over it. The album is a complete work, and so it has its place in the sequence. Eventually, I came to memorize it through repeated exposure. Now, knowing each note that is to come, I hear it in the same way as I’d hear a 12 tone piece by Webern. It has a narrative sequence that speaks of the musicians interacting with each other, and with the rarefied mysticism of the initial song. For me, the lyric of The Court speaks of decadence, and a colorful and frilly surface masking despair, violence, and dysfunction. So when the calliope starts up, it’s a depiction of Bread & Circuses, which then goes completely off the rails. “Things fall apart, the center cannot hold.” But Doug, when you spoke of a lack of virtuosity, had you forgotten about Schizoid Man? The blistering unison runs, the dead-on starts and stops, the unusual chromaticisms? It blew people’s minds, man! I know that Coltrane is often mentioned as a comparison (and by the band, as well), yet I hear Mingus. For your next Crimson outing, I’d recommend the album “Starless and Bible Black.” Most people don’t realize that it’s a live album, since the applause was edited out. But at one point in the final musical apocalypse of “Fracture,” you can hear one of the band get so pumped by what’s happening, he yells out WOOO! It’s a killer album, one that unfortunately gets less notice due to where it falls in the Crimson canon.

Nathan-Andrew

2021-09-02 16:11:12 +0000 UTC

You talk about the birth of prog rock on "21st Century Schizoid Man" but I'd go farther and say that's probably the first prog metal song, and Sabbath had barely invented regular metal yet. It's hard to find songs that are like that song in rock; as was mentioned elsewhere here, it's got more in common with jazz. And this is 1969. Talk about making the mold.

Blinky

2021-09-02 16:07:31 +0000 UTC

Indeed, King Crimson and Robert Fripp in particular can be rather hostile to people who want to "bootleg" video-tape or audio-record their concerts.

Garance A Drosehn

2021-09-02 16:00:01 +0000 UTC

I never realized, until now, how similar the very end of Genesis' "Supper's Ready" ('As Sure as Eggs is Eggs') is a major key version of the end of 'Epitaph'. They carry similar weight and drama, only rooted in opposite ends of the emotional spectrum, i.e. glory vs. pessimism. Yes, it's a common chord progression, but the orchestration is also similar, leading me to wonder if it was a conscious derivative.

Peter Tutak

2021-09-02 15:56:43 +0000 UTC

I kind of feel like the Moonchild improv spontaneously summoned Brian Eno into existence. 😂 Rock music could now be ambient.

Nathan-Andrew

2021-09-02 15:46:02 +0000 UTC

This was delightful. Ive been listening to “ITCOTCK” since the mid ‘70’s and listening to your real-time professional impressions breathed new life into it for me. Thank you! Relisten to the end (before the part that, as others have noted, was not on the original album). The stereo field collapses and sucks your brains out. 😳 I believe that the calliope part in the title cut corresponds to the subtitled “including ‘The Dance of the Puppets’”, and refers to the lyric “…And smiles as the puppets dance in the Court of…”

Bill Sanders

2021-09-02 13:44:04 +0000 UTC

Jackson beat me to mentioning Trio and Asbury Park, as the two improvisations which stand out for sheer beauty. Trio is a melodic piece, of which I didn't know for years that it was actually an improvisation. It's a piece that may be played at my funural, hopefully many, many years from now (no health problems apparent, thanks for wondering ;-) ) Asbury Park is a complete different beast. Raw, energetic, intense. The musicianship is unbelievable. It's a miracle how they could play, compose and react to each other at the same time. The only anchor for the song was a shout from Robert Fripp at the start: "F" and off they went. On the original USA album the track was faded out/cut off at the 7:06 time stamp. Imo a wise decision. Latter versions of the album contain the complete improvisation, so you can judge for yourself. Needless to say that both Trio and Asbury Park are well worth a listening.

Frits van Voorst

2021-09-02 12:48:40 +0000 UTC

I agree with Frits' comment about the remaster -- mostly more clarity. The details stand out, you can really hear everything that's going on. Re: Moonchild Improv. I have never really liked this improv. Improv was a big part of the live performances of this line-up, and they wanted to capture that here. Now I have always loved (LOVED) the improvs from the 72-74 line-up, and based on this I sort of assumed that the 69 line-up wasn't as strong at improvs. Having now heard many live recordings of this line-up, they did some amazing improvs, but the one here just isn't one of them. If you want good examples of improv from KC, you might try "Trio" and "Asbury Park" as starters. Also every time you hear "strings" or "a group of clarinets" it's a mellotron. Songs like Epitaph and ITCOTKC are sort of classic mellotron-heavy tracks. As for RF's solo on Schizoid Man, it's definitely sort of crazy and unexpected. Whenever this line-up performed the song, there was a guitar solo and a sax solo, and both were very different every time, often subversive and startling. These days, Gavin Harrison always does a drum solo, and it's always amazing. Also, when I listen to this album I often find myself focusing on Michael Giles' drumming - he's arguably my favorite KC drummer and that's in a band that Bill Bruford and Gavin Harrison have both drummed for.

Jackson Bross

2021-09-02 12:14:29 +0000 UTC

Do not try to sneak in some video. Don’t ruin others’ experience, and they will kick you out. Crimson has released plenty of live videos. Be in the moment and experience the music.

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 11:38:16 +0000 UTC

You asked about the differences between the original and the SW mix. The original album had more than 8 recorded tracks but the mastertape was restricted to 8. So tracks had to be combined to fit the mastertape. At the time SW started on this album, the original tracks were rediscovered, so Steven could work with all separate recordings and as many tracks as needed. The difference between the end result and the original can be described as much more clarity, more detail and definition, while keeping the musical result intact. It's the same album, but it feels like a curtain has been removed.

Frits van Voorst

2021-09-02 08:13:33 +0000 UTC

Sinfield gets occasional lyric credits on some of the ELP albums. Also, Robert Fripp and his wife Toyah Wilcox have been doing a "Toyah & Robert's Sunday Lunch" series on YouTube (search Toyah), where he plays, she sings (in some sort of costume) and covers various songs of a wide variety. -- worth a look-see.

Great Scott

2021-09-02 07:26:31 +0000 UTC

I didn't appreciate just how much nostalgia I have tied up in this album. I listened to it a lot on highschool/college (which would have been around 06-08ish probably). I think what's interesting is that it's been so long since I last listened, and I've found so much more new music since then, that I almost felt like I was hearing it now in a completely different way. Like I'd go as far as to say I was reminded more of Jazz than Rock at times and I was listening in the way I might listen to John Coltrane album for example (I know the two sound nothing alike). Really interesting how that shift in perspective happens.

Neil Slater

2021-09-02 07:24:33 +0000 UTC

That last little bit at the end of The Court Of The Crimson King is not on the original album. I like it though!

Joseph Riordan

2021-09-02 06:58:42 +0000 UTC

Not sure whether it's better to have the rambling discussion on this to happen here or on the discord server. I'll say that the first time I heard this I thought "21st Century Schizoid Man" and "Court of the Crimson King" were amazing and landmark songs, and I thought "Epitaph" was great (but not necessarily a landmark song). I didn't like "Moonchild" at all, but I do like it now. And to be honest, I don't remember having any opinion at all about "I Talk to the Wind".

Garance A Drosehn

2021-09-02 06:39:25 +0000 UTC

And I think back on this, I suspect that some of reason this album had so much impact was due to the depth of the lyrics and the somber pictures painted by them.

Garance A Drosehn

2021-09-02 06:26:47 +0000 UTC

Peter Sinfield was often ridiculed and savaged by the critics. They weren’t prepared for a poet, and weren’t prepared to try to understand them. His website: http://www.songsouponsea.com/

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 06:11:03 +0000 UTC

Wrt "21st Century Schizoid Man", I'd also note that there was a popular TV series which started in 1967 which was titled "The 21st Century" hosted by Walter Cronkite. The show was looking ahead to 2000, and it make all kinds of predictions about really cool technology which would be common by then -- so it was predicting a very positive future. As one of the reviews on IMDB puts it: "It looked to a positive future (cuz the present sucked)"

Garance A Drosehn

2021-09-02 06:10:01 +0000 UTC

The sounds at the end weren’t on the original album. It was an additional take of the “wind” noise that opened the album.

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 06:08:34 +0000 UTC

I was just hitting my teen years when this came out, although I didn't hear the full album until a year or so after it was released. And I was absolutely stunned by it right at the first listen. It's easy to remember my reaction, which was "There are thousands of albums possible now which weren't even possible 45-minutes ago". It was clear that there were artists who would listen to this album and go off in directions that they would never have thought of before hearing this. Not that they'd copy this, but this album was going to get many artists thinking about trying dramatic new directions.

Garance A Drosehn

2021-09-02 06:00:12 +0000 UTC

The Moonchild improv is unlike the live ones in that there was a set of vibes in the studio, so Ian played those, with Fripp and Giles on guitar and drums. In each new incarnation of the band, they would typically play almost only new material. To fill out the concerts they would improvise as a band. The Moonchild one isn’t necessarily their best, but it is representative of the band at that time. One take, and unedited as far as I know. Dynamics are a huge thing with Crimson, and that’s it’s primary purpose here.

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 05:52:00 +0000 UTC

Very nice, I'm seeing these guys tomorrow night with the Zappa Band opening. Can't wait! I don't know much of King Crimsons catalog but from what I do know, I do like quite a lot so this show will be great I'm sure. I'll try to sneak some video if I can and share it on Discord.

kmach1ne

2021-09-02 05:38:04 +0000 UTC

King Crimson is at Holmdel this Saturday, the 4th. Opening act is the Zappa band. This may very well be the last time Crimson plays the US, and they are a band best experienced live. I highly recommend you catch them if you can. Same touring band as the version of Starless you watched.

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 05:19:37 +0000 UTC

Regarding the opening track, 21st Century Schizoid Man, as the opener, perhaps a listen to the previous release: Giles, Giles and Fripp, would give some context.

Illume Eltanin

2021-09-02 05:18:35 +0000 UTC

King Crimson has been known for their improvisations, especially live. Especially the late ‘72-‘74 period. Moonchild was just the tip of the iceberg.

Randy Hammill

2021-09-02 05:11:47 +0000 UTC

In the Court of the Crimson King - King Crimson (Extended Play Lounge Ep. 3)

Comments

I first thought 73/74 was the musical measure in the Moonchild

Isolated bass and drums from Lake and Michael Giles. Insanely in synch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_7Db-Q7XoU

On the sad day that the death of Ian Macdonald was announced I had to come here and watch this reaction video again. While doing so, it struck me just how much of this album was Macdonald. A true genius and possibly the one who invented King Crimson (then left Fripp to deal with it...)

King Crimson are masters of tension and release

It is interesting that you compared the vocals in 21st Century to John Lennon. Greg's vocals in the other songs, especially I Talk to the Wind, convey a world-weariness which was one of Lennon's vocal signatures.

This was great. I would love to hear you do one of these for the Discipline (1981) album some time.

Steven Wilson included a longer version of Moonchild on his awesome and faithful to the original mix. I do not believe there is a truncated version of this track.

The virtuosity was in the middle section of Schizoid Man

Definitely RED

I also have the 50th Anniversary set which is really worth buying as it has a lot of isolated tracks.

Doug, I have the old vinyl from way back and I would say that the flute and woodwinds are a bit louder brought up front more.

Doug, That's not a syncopated keyboard. That's Fripp on his Les Paul playing a very clean tone.

Please consider doing KC's "Red" album or "Discipline"

This was my first time listening to this album. Glad I did. I listen to and enjoy King Crimson's most recent two albums, Power to Believe and Construktion of Light, but have not listened to anything prior to that. Love that you talk about the lyrics in these videos.

To really hear their improv check out some of the studio sessions from "Islands." Downright free-jazz sounds at points there. Also, that album has an absolutely gorgeous title track.

Fantastic album! I don't really care for the neverending improv section in Moonchild, but apart from that i think it's a 10/10 throughout!

Hi Doug Did you claim that this was the first progressive recording. The Moody Blues (1967) and the Nice (1968), for example, had both released well known prog albums before this and King Crimson took the Mellotron sound from the Moodys, Emerson hated the instrument and wouldn't use it.

"I don't care that much for their later work, but absolutely love this one" I'm with you on that. I'd like to like them more, but I don't. The Crimson King was the pinnacle for me. Moonchild I can live with but remote controls have improved it a lot over earlier vinyl releases 😁.

Yes, I've been enjoying those too. So Fripp the brainiac does have a sense of humour 😁.

I guess it depends, there are both categories. Atom Heart Motjer probably - for me - rather falls into the 2nd category. I haven't heard the Cocteau Twins.

Timeless classic. A beautiful, unified artistic statement. However, for the ultra virtuosity you simply must progress to ‘Larks Tongues in Aspic’. It’s a cosmic kick in the pants.

I would say Schizoid is the dawn of progressive metal virtuosity.

I've always likened Opeth to Crimson.

It is such a unique experience to share the experience of your hearing this for the first time when it is something I have owned for 45 years or so and to some degree take for granted. You help me reconnect with my joy and wonder at first discovering this music.

Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother , for sure! Please, Doug!!! I have just joined your patreon, you have been doing great to help us rediscover/enjoy our favorite pieces of music! And I enjoy , besides the Daily Doug, my Daily Bulleit as well! somethings at the same time! Greetings from Brazil

i love ambient music so i don't mind the improv. and king crimson just does it so well! they have a few others throughout the years, very ambient avante garde kinda stuff. speaking of which, you should check out here come the warm jets by brian eno! i think you'll get a kick out of it.

I could be completely off my rocker here, but I can hear the later Opeth sound in this. Doug did Moon Above and Sun Below that I hear during ITCOTCK here.

Interesting going through this with you. It is a groundbreaking album, though not one I feel like playing very often. The opening track, of course, is a classic, but the very gentle "I talk to the Wind" has become my favourite. Strangely, I never warmed up to a lot of the rest of the album.

Thank you Doug for this video. KC is so unique and unlike anything you will ever hear. Red is my fav from the 70s and it’s a beast! Would love to hear your opinion.

Many thanks, Doug! If you do another King Crimson album, I would definitely suggest, "Discipline." Or, if you're looking for just a single song by Crimson, i would recommend the tune: Frame by Frame off Discipline. It's a very underrated and powerful song for sure.

One thing that I was always fascinated by is that a brief homage to the chorus of Epitaph was sung by Greg when they would do Tarkus live, at the end of Battlefield.

Also, with the last song: it's not uncommon for rock songs to use suspended chords, but this is a rare example of a rock song that prepares the suspensions. :)

Be not afeared of space, the source of all cycles and phenomena.

Nicely done, Doug. Definitely prog ground zero. A true classic, but I will admit to never really getting into the free improv section of "Moonchild". Otherwise, great stuff...

After I had listened to Moonchild, it reminded me of The Cecil Taylor Unit.. I never liked Mingus because he was too cautious in his improvisations

This was for sure something else than i expected. But still cool. Would love a bit more harder rock into it as well. But maybe thats why i am a pure metalhead, hehe. Well Nice work as always Doug. Keep up the good work. Totally digg your chanel.

You’re right…I was forgetting the first tune. Time to listen again!

About the woodwind/pipe organ noise at the beginning and ending: on my vinyl record from the early/mid '70s neither is present. So they are later additions additions or left out on this issue.

If this album came out this year, it would be considered to be an avant-prog or a rock-in-opposition album. Personally, I think it is the root of those sub-genres.

Indeed, King Crimson and Robert Fripp in particular can be rather hostile to people who want to "bootleg" video-tape or audio-record their concerts.

I kind of feel like the Moonchild improv spontaneously summoned Brian Eno into existence. 😂 Rock music could now be ambient.

Do not try to sneak in some video. Don’t ruin others’ experience, and they will kick you out. Crimson has released plenty of live videos. Be in the moment and experience the music.

That last little bit at the end of The Court Of The Crimson King is not on the original album. I like it though!

And I think back on this, I suspect that some of reason this album had so much impact was due to the depth of the lyrics and the somber pictures painted by them.

Peter Sinfield was often ridiculed and savaged by the critics. They weren’t prepared for a poet, and weren’t prepared to try to understand them. His website: http://www.songsouponsea.com/

The sounds at the end weren’t on the original album. It was an additional take of the “wind” noise that opened the album.

Very nice, I'm seeing these guys tomorrow night with the Zappa Band opening. Can't wait! I don't know much of King Crimsons catalog but from what I do know, I do like quite a lot so this show will be great I'm sure. I'll try to sneak some video if I can and share it on Discord.

King Crimson is at Holmdel this Saturday, the 4th. Opening act is the Zappa band. This may very well be the last time Crimson plays the US, and they are a band best experienced live. I highly recommend you catch them if you can. Same touring band as the version of Starless you watched.

Regarding the opening track, 21st Century Schizoid Man, as the opener, perhaps a listen to the previous release: Giles, Giles and Fripp, would give some context.

King Crimson has been known for their improvisations, especially live. Especially the late ‘72-‘74 period. Moonchild was just the tip of the iceberg.

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