Limited Resources Depth Check - OGW Sealed League Trial Run
Added 2016-03-19 09:31:29 +0000 UTCHey All,
I've been working on a new type of video for a little while, and I have the pilot or proof-of-concept for the first one ready. I've decided not to make it fully public yet; it's unlisted on YouTube currently. I wanted to share it with you, our patrons, for a day or two before making it publicly available. (As such, I'd appreciate if you didn't share the link publicly yet, but I'm not going to be monitoring it or doing anything about it if you do. Just a request.)
I'm doing this for two reasons.
First is because this kind of thing is made possible by you, and I wanted to acknowledge that and thank you for it.
Second is because I want feedback. I have a million ideas on where to take these videos, but I wanted to know if they appeal to you.
The basic premise is that I do a normal draft video, you get to watch the draft as you would any draft video. But for the games, I speed them up and do voiceover for them, which allows the video to be about 30 minutes in length.
The really cool part, though, is that it also allows me to manipulate the video so we can go way deeper than normal in selected spots. There are a lot of ways to take these deep dives, and I have a lot of ideas to try out if this is something that is useful to you.
Thanks as always for your support, and I hope you enjoy the video!
Feel free to leave comments here, or hit us up on Twitter, via the email (lr@lrcast.com) or wherever.
- Marshall
Comments
Very well done!
Jared Rood
2016-03-24 05:28:28 +0000 UTCJust wanted to say thanks again for the feedback, it's a big help. I now have the tape for the second installment, though I'm not sure how long it will take to actually edit down. It's very labor intensive, but I'm hoping that as I get more comfortable with the rhythm of it, it will go faster :)
Limited Resources
2016-03-23 01:00:31 +0000 UTCJust wanted to say thanks again for the feedback, it's a big help. I now have the tape for the second installment, though I'm not sure how long it will take to actually edit down. It's very labor intensive, but I'm hoping that as I get more comfortable with the rhythm of it, it will go faster :)
Limited Resources
2016-03-23 01:00:30 +0000 UTCThis is a fantastic format, especially since plenty of people will still be putting out full-length draft videos if folks prefer that format. I thought it worked especially well fora sealed league since watching 5 matches can be a bit of a time sink!
Galen
2016-03-22 21:10:19 +0000 UTCWhat I loved: - This was as awesome as I was expecting, love this format looking forward to more of it - I think it would be especially great for drafts where you could pause during the draft as well on interesting picks. - All of your experience on commentary really comes in handy here as you're able to really hone in on the relevant stuff while going quite speedily through the games. I was sort of assuming that I would be suggesting that instead of going linearly through all the games that you instead just jump straight to certain spots where you want to make specific points but it flows soooo smoothly with your commentary that I think the way you've done it is strictly better than that would be. - Intro & wrap-ups were nice bookends Feedback: - Match 5 Game 2 is mislabeled it reads Match 4 Game 2 - I think it would be better if you slowed down a bit for basically all mulligan decisions since that's something so many of us need to work on (and also fertile thicket decisions), and probably sideboarding as well - At 30:30 I think it would be worth slowing the game down and explaining why you didn't cast anything that turn - I assume you were playing around void shatter but I think that wouldn't be obvious to all viewers either that it is what you were doing and why you didn't want to use seer's lantern as bait (presumbably because game 1 went long so that's a key card and you think you can play around it anyway since you're ahead on board the opponent won't be able to hold it up forever) - This might not be practical but I think that if you are commentating while you're doing it sometimes when you slow it down you could switch to the "live" commentary to hear exactly what you were thinking at the time - One comment about the deck: surprised that you ran the shrine, it seemed like you really could have used one more coloured mana source... and this made me think that it might be interesting in the wrap up to take another look at the pool and ask if you'd have built it the same way after playing all the games.
Trevor
2016-03-21 20:14:42 +0000 UTCI think that the 30 min format would work especially well for 3 round drafts. The 5 round sealed events might be easier to follow for newer LR fans if they were 40 or 45 min videos. With a little more time you might have be able to review decision trees, potential mistakes and do a 30 second summary at the end of each game and speak to sideboarding decisions.
George Wright
2016-03-21 14:25:45 +0000 UTCReally nice, but 5 matches in 30 minutes might be too ambitious. I would also like to hear your thoughts about some of the mulligan decisions.
Feike
2016-03-21 11:20:38 +0000 UTCTo echo other sentiments, I would prefer if you flew past flood/mana screwed games, but were able to have a more natural "talking" pace for the other matches. Not quite, conversation speed, but "presentation" speed, if you know what I mean (where you are just monologuing to a room full of people). On your point in bringing in others to talk through plays, I completely agree. I think it would be really interesting to hear your thought process, then ask someone else for theirs (without hearing yours or seeing your play; just on the board state) and seeing how close the two are. I'm maybe stretching a bit here but it might also setup a little guest/cameo spot on the podcast where, if there is a difference of opinion, you can explain the board state for those that haven't seen the video (in an effort to make sure no one is excluded due to Patreon and all that) and have a quick back and forth could be had on the merits of each solution. If you are only doing 1 of these videos a set the 5 mins out of 1 podcast shouldn't be too much for the people that haven't seen it/aren't interested, but give a little something extra to those who like play by play decisions, which isn't something LR really has at the moment (although I understand the benefit of these can be limited and LR is a more "big picture" type podcast/learning experience, for the most part).
Neil Logan
2016-03-21 06:09:48 +0000 UTCI thought it was great! I got a lot of good info out of the in depth moments. Personally I didn't find the rest too fast to follow but I see how others could. This is a fantastic addition to your content, please keep it going, and of course in different formats as they are relevant.
Terrell Sanders
2016-03-20 21:32:19 +0000 UTCI have no suggestions for improvement, this video was great as-is. I like fast-forwarding through the uninteresting games where one player draws well or has mana issues while explaining what happened, and pausing for interesting situations. If you slowed it down so that we could follow every single play, it wouldn't really be possible to keep it at a half hour. There are tons and tons of limited videos out there already where they show all the games at normal speed.
Aaron North
2016-03-20 18:02:12 +0000 UTCI think everything was great, normal deckbuild, slow down at important moments. The only thing I would change is make the fast parts just a bit slower
Peter Rosin
2016-03-20 09:44:49 +0000 UTCThis is fantastic. More value in less time. Due to lack of time, I usually only get to watch a draft video or a match play video. The ~30 minutes of this format hits the perfect sweet spot. The talking and play was slightly too fast at parts. Your suggestion of cutting the pointless matches (flood/no land) sounds great to give you time to slow down a little in real matches but still hit the same time. The pauses to "go deep" were great. 1-2 alternate lines of play in the video would add alot of value without adding much time.
Jim Edelen
2016-03-20 04:29:58 +0000 UTCThis is exactly what I am looking for. If you pair these up with the normal casts this is fantastic. Thanks Marshall!
Jon
2016-03-20 03:57:15 +0000 UTCHi Marshall, I thought this was a great idea. I felt that the speed was just the tiniest bit too fast-it seemed like you were speed-talking your way through some of it. I enjoyed the video and the "deep dive" into decision points like the Unnatural Endurance moment a lot. Thanks! Can't wait for more.
Saralyn McKinnon-Crowley
2016-03-20 02:44:58 +0000 UTCMarshall, this is an awesome concept, and I’m so glad you've decided to take the time to make it happen. Im sorry this is lengthy, but I feel very passionate about what you’re doing here. My thoughts respectfully: I love this idea of making limited mtg videos focused on the “turning point” or “key decision” of a match or a draft pick. Being able to pause at those moments and share your thought process with us and explore different decision trees out loud is what I’m after. It is so beneficial to hear you go through the different options you have at a particular time, and then what conclusions you come to and why. Because there are already so many draft videos out there, I’m less interested about slowing down the gameplay (as some have expressed.) We need just enough context leading up to the “depth check” to know where the game is at. The deeper you go into those specific moments, the better! All of the pictures, lists, and sound effects (ding) you used to explain curtain concepts were awesome! Keep doing that! I wonder if at the end of every game you could briefly sum up the reason why you felt you won or lost? Obviously some games are just land screw, or luck oriented. The ones that have a couple “depth checks,” hearing you describe the way you were able to win (card advantage, leveraging cards, gaining value in specific ways, etc..) in relation to the depth check moments could be helpful. Thanks so much for all the amazing content, Dana B
Dana Billings
2016-03-20 02:42:49 +0000 UTCNice video, interesting idea. I think it would be great if you deep dived more into mistakes you may have made, or alternate lines of play, when the one you chose didn't work out, and whether or not it was still the correct decision (results oriented vs non-result oriented thinking, etc.) Maybe even invite a second opinion if one is available.
Kyle Snow Schwartz
2016-03-20 01:50:23 +0000 UTCInteresting! The 30 minute factor is not a big deal for me. I can watch 5-10 draft videos a week and often run out of content to watch, so more is better for me. I would actually like if you stopped even more often to analyze situations and think about alternate strategies - similar to LSV's "what's the play?" features on CFB. I like going quickly through games with few real decisions (mana screw situation, or an obvious curve-out sequence), but I think most games I would prefer to see slower than this, or at least with more stopping points to think. Keep up the good work! Love that you're experimenting with the typical draft video format.
Trevor Andersen
2016-03-19 23:54:31 +0000 UTCVery helpful (and encouraging) feedback from everyone, thank you! What I’m gathering: 1. You like the "Depth Check" part, which is kind of the highlight of this type of video so that makes sense. 2. Some of you felt like the “small” sized matches were a bit rushed, skirting the edge of what is follow-able and what isn’t. 3. You are having some of the same ideas I am! This is great. 4. The the ~30 min length was especially good for some of you. I’ll lay out my thoughts here for discussion, as you are not only the reason these happen, but you are the people I am making them for :) First is the length of the video. I wanted something more digestible than your normal draft video. A typical draft video can be well over an hour, even longer in some cases. While this does have its uses, it can be hard for some people to carve out that much time. I aimed for 30 minutes for this, and assume the draft versions will be around the same length. How important is this to you? My thinking is that some games of a draft are pretty forgettable, where one person has mana issues or just draws particularly well, while other games have interesting spots that warrant a closer look. I want to be able to bring you all of the matches so you have a flow for how the event went overall still. I could make them longer, and will consider that in the future in the case that I get enough feedback after the first few videos that they should be slower/longer. I’ve got a lot of sweet ideas on how to make these even better (bringing in a pro to talk through a play, running actual math in a spot where you wouldn’t be able to normally, showing outs in deck, showing cards we passed in the draft that we have to play around now, etc) I can totally do the Depth Check thing during the draft as well. I would just interrupt my live self with some voiceover I think. Anyway, you’ve all given me a lot to ponder, and I appreciate it! Marshall
Limited Resources
2016-03-19 22:19:55 +0000 UTCAwesome content! I do think it's a bit too fast though. I need a little more time to process the plays properly. Look forward to seeing some more of these in the future!
Tyler Barr
2016-03-19 21:53:48 +0000 UTCGreat idea, thanks for the video! Aaron's idea back there is a good one, too. Getting both your side of the story on a tricky situation as well as the opponent's point of view could shed light on how a situation can be seen similarly, or differently. Sometimes it's easy to miss on some tiny clues that confirm whether you should go for the kill, or play it safe, and getting the opponent's version of it might help you better interpret those details in the future. Speeding up through the games and only really commenting on those decisive moments wouldn't make too long, either.
Antti Koivisto
2016-03-19 21:00:41 +0000 UTCI just wanted to thank you for trying out a new idea. Using this format has some really good aspects that you can take advantage of, but isn't without its drawbacks. I really liked how you could pause the match and really break down your line of thought. Often you don't get to go into that level of detail in a live match, so we don't always get the full story, but more of a gist of what you were trying. Moving forward, I feel like these are the strongest aspects of your video, and I feel it is something that I hope that you continue with these. I'm really curious if this could be added to the draft portion as well, but those might be recorded and voice over live. Now, for the parts that I felt detracted from this. That was the really compressed nature of the rest of the matches. I understand that the intent is to focus on those "in the tank" moments, so I get why it seems rushed. I found it was a little too fast though, and would like to see it slowed down a little bit more; not necessarily live speed, but somewhere in between what it is now. I hope this feedback is helpful. Keep up the good work.
Nick Cler
2016-03-19 20:30:34 +0000 UTCThis is great. I love the depth of analysis on the decision points, and I hope this type of video becomes a normal part of the LR ecosystem.
John McCullough
2016-03-19 18:42:06 +0000 UTC"T-Shirt sizes" is a great primer for what to expect in each game, but your voiceover saying "this was a good/interesting game" does the same thing for me. Really like this later in the format, especially given how time-consuming (for you and the viewer) Sealed can be.
Josh
2016-03-19 17:57:43 +0000 UTCThis was great. I loved the edited-draft videos that got done for the Wizards mothership, and have always been kind of disappointed that they didn't continue. It's nice to see that this idea didn't die back then.
Steven
2016-03-19 17:39:30 +0000 UTCLike the other comments, I really enjoyed the video and think this is a great idea. It might be less useful early in a draft format because players are still learning the cards so it will be harder to follow along, but these will be very meaningful videos after a few weeks when players are comfortable with the cards. I also enjoyed the popups and text you sprinkled in. Keep up the great work.
Brian Moriarty
2016-03-19 17:23:49 +0000 UTCLove the feedback, learning a lot from it. I think I'm going to try "t-shirt sizes" for the next one. That means that each game is either a small, a medium, or a large. The smalls will be replayed very quickly, and will be the more straightforward games. The mediums will be a bit longer and more interesting games. And the larges will be the ones that we go deep on. I think.
Limited Resources
2016-03-19 17:00:18 +0000 UTCI like this, speeds up the game play which can get slow and repetitive at times. focusing on key decision points is great. I watch almost all youtube videos at 1.5x and this still worked at that speed.
Matthew McKee
2016-03-19 16:09:05 +0000 UTCI really do like the format! The text lay over of options was great as you slowed down certain decision trees you went through! Great stuff!
Taylor Goodland
2016-03-19 15:50:15 +0000 UTCMarshall, I like the video format. It's very time efficient for the viewer although I appreciate it is not for you compared to just streaming. I think that earlier in the format the rapid pace might leave the viewer wanting a little more detail until they internalize all the cards and game play. Later in the format it seems like a great way to gain valuable insights into decision making as you slow down and focus on learning points. Nice work!
Scott Laundry
2016-03-19 15:33:00 +0000 UTCI enjoyed it. It was a little fast but followable. I really liked when you laid images over to illustrate points (e.g., the "ding" on the X spell and the pop up of unnatural endurance). Keep up the good work!
Joel Prellwitz
2016-03-19 15:32:04 +0000 UTCAaron's idea sounds awesome!
Zack Reph
2016-03-19 15:19:37 +0000 UTCI liked the idea, but I found it too fast to follow comfortably. I'm not a great magic player, but I love the game and I consume any content that you put out, as well as my favourite CF people. Since I'm a little slow I need the time to catch up and figure out what the heck is going on. Like Ira said, this might not be targeted at me, but rather at the people who want it faster. I'd like to see this if it was still faster than real time, but slowed down from what you have it. Your stuff is amazing though and I really appreciate what you add to the world of magic.
Dustin Aleksiuk
2016-03-19 15:00:32 +0000 UTCI think this is a good idea. It lets you switch into commentator mode, which probably feels a bit weird since you're commentating your own game, but it lets you use a skill you've cultivated doing coverage. You still get all of the drama of the match, just condensed into a manageable timeframe. This is a good option for your more enfranchised players who know the cards well and know what's happening on the board at a glance. And like Aaron said, this is innovative content. Magic players can go to any site and see a typical match video, but this is something new and interesting.
Ira Humphrey
2016-03-19 14:54:44 +0000 UTCGreat idea Marshall! I love it! It's really nice to be able to see all the matches with out staring at the computer while your opponent takes 5 minutes to make a decision. The way you stop/slow down when you have an interesting decision is super helpful and informative. The use of the graphics is a very nice touch as well. The only thing I would suggest is to slow it down just a tick. I'm really really looking forward to seeing more of these!!!
Daniel Bjork
2016-03-19 14:41:45 +0000 UTCI have to agree with Jason, this was great. Biggest strength, IMO: stopping the video at those certain decision points and laying out the options with voiceover, pictures, and text. That is very innovative, clearly delivers the message, and should be a fixture going forward. An idea that would require some setup, but might be cool to try: Do a draft (streamer showdown style) where you know everyone else in the pod. Then you can have the opponent in the voiceover with you afterwards, giving the opposite perspective. I don't know how much of a logistics challenge that would be for you, but if it isn't too much I think it would be worth it. Maybe not every single video, but once in a while as a special event type of promotion? Bonus LR with my morning coffee was definitely a 2-for-1 to start the weekend, thanks Marshall!
Aaron Bochenek
2016-03-19 14:29:05 +0000 UTCWell that was a fun way to spend 30 minutes this morning...Exert Influence did some work! This really adds to the LR Cast...when you guys talked about taking the playables and separating them out, seeing how you did that put it into perspective...the association between the cast and video was fantastic...Thanks Marshall!
Jason Chappell
2016-03-19 13:37:44 +0000 UTC
