SamSuka
Ceave
Ceave

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[OPEN POST] - Artificial Intelligence, ISIS and YouTube. (November Update)

Hey everyone! I hope all of you exceptionally wonderful people are doing exceptionally wonderful today!
The Outer Wilds video is finally out and producing this little thing was quite something. It was definitely the most complex video I ever produced and I’m super happy with how it turned out.

Sadly, the YouTube algorithm was not.

As a matter of fact, it is my worst-performing video launch since 2016.

“Tips, Tricks, and Ideas with Piranha Plants” pulled more than double the amount of views within 48 hours after release than the Outer Wilds video did. (To be fair, “Tips, Tricks, and Ideas with Piranha Plants is also peak Piranha Plant Tips Mario Maker YouTube.”)

And that sucks.

It sucks even more because all of the video metrics are fantastic.
It has really good interaction rates, the like-to-view ratio is insanely high, the clickthrough rate (how often someone clicks the video if they get it recommended) is higher than usual, the reception in the comments is extraordinarily nice, the average watch time of the video is a bit higher than the channel averaged so far and so on.

All the metrics that I have control over are pointing towards the video doing great.
So why is the video not performing one might ask?
Well, that is only half the story here.
See, not only is the video pulling a lot fewer views - it is also only doing a fraction of the ad revenue that the channel usually pulls.
The Majora’s Mask or the Hollow Knight video did about five times the ad revenue per view. For whatever reason YouTube is running only a fraction of as many ads on the video as they usually do.
To understand what is going on here, we first have to chat about something different.

We have to chat about AI.
But not about ChatGPT for once.

Let’s travel back in time together and let’s talk about artificial intelligence in ancient times.

The year is 2017.
It’s a simpler time.
Beyonce just announced that she is pregnant with twins, Trump is having a cup of covfefe and the New England Patriots mounted the biggest comeback in SuperBowl History.
And YouTube?

Well, YouTube is in trouble.

See, 2017 is a time not only defined by fun pop culture events but sadly also by Islamic terrorism all across Europe.
Hundreds of people died in dozens of Islamic terrorist attacks that year.
Terror attacks that often have been carried out with self-built bombs.
Self-built bombs that the terrorists learned how to build on ISIS YouTube “how to” videos.

ISIS was using YouTube to share terrorist knowledge back in 2017.
And YouTube was monetizing those videos.

All of a sudden YouTube is at the center of a well-deserved shitstorm.
They ran Coca-Cola ads in front of terrorist content, they rolled out Trump campaign ads before bomb-building tutorials and happily recommended “how to murder someone” tutorials to everyone who seemed remotely interested in it.

Understandably advertisers weren’t that enthusiastic about that.
On the contrary: Advertisers grumpy!

In droves, they left the platform.
Those advertisers spent a lot of money to get their shiny brands that shiny.
They don’t want this shiny being stained by terrible terrorism.

So YouTube was searching for a solution to make the kibbly advertisers all happy again.
And they found a solution.

A solution using back then revolutionary tech.
They solved the problem with artificial intelligence.
They trained an algorithm to automatically detect whether a YouTube video was actually terrorist content.
An algorithm able to differentiate between beauty and bomb-building tutorials.
An algorithm able to detect the difference between shooter games and real-life shooters.
An algorithm that automatically detects if a video is fit for advertisers or not, and that shadowbans all content that is a danger for their precious advertisers.

It took them only a few weeks to craft this marvelous algorithm.
They rolled out their gigantic achievement of human engineering.

And it was exactly the shitshow you’d expect it to be.

Let’s change the scenery for a second.
Let’s leave the hectic YouTube offices of Silicon Valley behind, and let’s travel together over the Atlantic, into the heart of Europe. Let’s visit my self from six years ago.

I am sitting somewhere in a sunny glade in the center of the Alps - staring into my notebook in disbelief.

All of my new Mario Maker Tips and Tricks videos are suddenly only reaching a fraction of the people they reached before.
Overnight I lost about 90% of my reach on YouTube.
And with it, I lost about 90% of my income.

Which leaves us with a question.
What had happened to my channel six years ago?
Had I done anything any differently one might ask?
To which the answer is no.
I was producing the same content as before, and the videos have - if anything - just gotten better.
Nothing I did had happened.
The new terrorism-stopping super AI had happened.
My videos got flagged for being unfit for advertisers.
YouTube’s artificial intelligence thought my Mario Maker videos were potentially terrorist content.

So I’ll never know exactly what happened in that terribly stressful time in 2017 but my best guess is that YouTube thought my Mario Maker videos were potentially ISIS bomb tutorials.
And … as bonkers as that may sound … it makes a surprising amount of sense when we think about it in detail.

See.
The videos were about building contraptions.
We often wired a bob omb to a trigger, which then caused it to explode once Mario got close, killing everything in its proximity. We had bombs explode, we were killing plumbers left and right, we were wiring all of those contraptions together, and worst of it all: The videos were definitely tutorials.

It took me forever to figure out what the problem was, but I believe YouTube’s stellar AI actually believed my family-friendly videos to be bomb-building tutorials.
So I’ll never know what was going on behind YouTube’s closed curtain here.
But.
I stopped to name bob ombs in my videos and started to refer to them as boom bots.
I stopped to say something explodes in the videos and started to say it goes boom instead.
I stopped saying we killed Mario but started to refer to us ouching our poor plumber instead.
And so on.

And suddenly my reach came back.

Little by little, until my videos were once again reaching people.
And the little yellow light showing that my videos were a potential threat - not only for humankind but also for advertisers - started to flash green again.

Here’s the thing with AIs. They sometimes make mistakes.
Humans make mistakes.
And since it’s humans that make AIs - AIs end up making mistakes as well.
The only problem.
Humans can recognize their mistakes and fix them.
AI’s can not.

For most people, this year is the first time they are really confronted with systems running on artificial intelligence. Everyone everywhere appears to be extremely excited because of this.
I had the honor of working within AI-moderated systems for over half a decade now.
And to put it mildly, I do not share this excitement.

So what has all of this to do with the Outer Wilds video again, one might ask?
Well, I believe the same thing that happened to me in 2017, happened to the Outer Wilds video.

YouTube has hidden algorithms running, that try to shadowban content that they believe to be potentially problematic.
I believe the Outer Wilds video somehow managed to trigger such a flag.
How did it do it?
I have no idea.

Maybe I said “explosion” and “death of everything that is” a bunch too often.
Maybe YouTube thinks the video is a reupload of a movie since it is about movie length and people probably interact with it in a way reminiscent of a movie.
Maybe discussing Nietzsche, God, and Faith is potentially problematic for advertisers.

I have honestly no idea.
It’s total arbitrariness, to be honest.
If this is what is going on, then there is nothing that I can do about it.

If it is just this video then it’s no big deal.
If I somehow managed to get a flag on the entire channel, however, then I can pack my things and look for another career.
Maybe becoming a failed fiction writer doesn’t sound that bad after all.

Though, we’ll probably be fine.

For now, I’m just eternally grumpy and grateful.
I’m grumpy because I honestly don’t want to deal with YouTube’s shit all the time.
And I’m grateful for the fact that there are you wonderful people here on Patreon.
You wonderful people, that keep the lights on when something like this happens.

I usually say at the end of the videos that the video would not have been possible without your support.
I don’t mean that as a catchphrase.
It’s the truth.

Without your support, I would have worked the last six weeks of my life on a video that now pulled exactly 20 euros and 91 cents of ad revenue because YouTube’s hidden AI bugged out.
And I would now work on my next videos with the full knowledge that something like this can happen anytime again.
That would not be sustainable.
It is however sustainable for me as of right now because of your generous support.

And for this a huge and honest, straight from the heart thank you.

Hooray.

So the Outer Wilds video bombed and it is arguably ISIS's fault. Who knew!

So what’s next? Well, I’ll have to change up my plans a bit because of this tragic mishappening.
This little incident sadly killed all the momentum that the perspective channel had going and because of this, I have to be super careful doing videos that I can be sure get at least a decent amount of traffic.
The next video will be as planned a Mario Wonder critique. That one shouldn’t take terribly long to produce, since I already played the game.
Expect that one in early December.
Wind Waker will have to wait a bit afterward, however, as we’ll probably visit the Land’s Between first.

Elden Ring is very likely to have its DLC revealed at the games awards on the 7th of December.

I planned to do a video about Elden Ring soon anyway, and I’ll prioritize it now because interest in the game will massively rise soon and I need a video of which I can be sure that it gets decent traffic because of the trainwreck that this video launch ended up being - so Elden Ring is very likely the one after Mario.

Thank you again for your support - it’s invaluable to me - especially right now.

Lots of hugs!

Comments

this sucks so hard. the outer wilds video was legitimately beautiful. ceave, your writing style is so iconic that i heard your voice, cadence, and even the silly "lights shutting off" sound effect in my head when i read this. your work is art, and if YouTube isn't going to pay you properly for that art, I'm proud to support you here on patreon.

mwarrior777

Fair point, that was melodramatic internet hyperbole on my part. I would love to see some artists team up with Ceave if it ends up being manageable within his workflow. And apologies for the misunderstanding, the only BS I was referring to was the current state of AI itself (YT, bad actors, etc.), so was actually agreeing with you and Ceave there; not a reference to your comment. Love and hugs.

Noble

Please don't twist my words. Sending someone like $20 on Fiverr for some background art is not 'contracting an art studio'. There are perfectly viable ways for YouTube creators to have art done for videos that are reasonable both time-wise, money-wise, and logistically, and we both know that. Twisting my legitimate concern as 'disheartening AI BS' and saying I was telling Ceave to 'contract an art studio' is incredibly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

SquidHominid

I really hope this doesn't devolve into the typical flamestorm as obviously opinions and emotions on this specific topic are high, but I really felt the need to balance this comment with a bit more of the Ceave love it seems SquidHominid shares. I get where you're coming from and don't necessarily disagree entirely, but it seems only fair that you also think of your impact in the future when you ask the same of others. I get that as a fellow creative, this is threatening and equally discomforting as the concerns with the current evolution of AI, Ceave speaks (and chose not to speak) to. AI's going to continue to hurt everyone, not just us artists, believe me. However as a fellow creative, I'd hope you'd also understand the challenges and modern obstacles that exist to the viability of Ceave pouring so much into these and our ability to continue to benefit from all that hard work and commitment. Yes, I noticed as most others did (the tell is the fingers, seriously, it's not hard) but I also got the intended irony and understand regardless, how the above battles with YT weigh in to the difficult decisions that have to be made when attempting to keep something like this a manageable pursuit. Asking that the source of the artwork is cited seems reasonable, but asking that Ceave contract an art studio for future videos seems unfair and damaging to the very thing we are supporting. @Ceave, I can only imagine how painfully disheartening all this AI BS truly is for such a passionate, creative person. Please keep doing what you're doing and I hope our support and whatever reasonable tools and (always brilliant) creative choices you make ensure we benefit from your beautifully crafted works for many, many years to come!

Noble

Sounds great!

Andrew Medford

That's a pretty good question but there is no way to do it justice in a patreon reply! I hope we get to do another QA soon, then I can structure my thoughts about the design of the modern Pokemons and waffle about it there!

Stefan Maier

Hey Ceave, sorry to make such a big deal out of this on your Patreon post, but I wanted to post it somewhere where I knew you'd see it and I could reasonably assume it'd get a response. It's, also, a little ironic this comment is going on this post in particular, about how YouTube AI content moderation systems have harmed your channel in the past. I'm watching the 'Second Best Platformer Ever Made' video, and, the AI art is not really a good look. If you wanted to have something like that, you should have hired an actual artist, and if you couldn't, you should have just stuck to gameplay clips - I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have minded. As it is now, the AI art was incredibly distracting. As soon as I noticed that the art was depicting Mario characters in the opera Carmen to go along with what you were saying, my focus was entirely ripped away from the video, and from the context about Super Mario Bros. Wonder, to start looking to see if I could find any 'tells' that it was AI art. It eventually led me to pause the video and check the description for an artist credit, rather than finish the video (which I'll do once I'm done with this comment). The thing is, using AI art to replace real artists, other creators like yourself, in the process of content creation is incredibly disrespectful to those creators. That's not even getting into the issues of art generative AI models using stolen art, and getting away with it by making the system opt-out rather than opt-in. This is a bit of a nitpick, but, to top it all off, not mentioning the art ANYWHERE In your video description is also not great, imo - you still need to cite when you use AI art, like how you have to credit actual artists when you use their art. You didn't create the art, and so you need to credit where it came from. Both as a form of disclosure that you used AI art, and also as a form of credit to the company whose tools made the art for you. I hope this message isn't taken too harshly. I've been a fan of your content for a really long time. I just, as a fellow internet creator, want to ask you to think better of things like this in the future.

SquidHominid

REQUEST: make pizza tower video

WonderGamer

It's awful how Youtube just lets the AI randomly nuke great creator's income like this with little to no recourse. Seeing this post gave me the push to finally become a patreon, been enjoying your vids for a good while now. The Outer Wilds video in question was amazing, it finally gave me the incentive I needed to push through my fears and complete the game, and boy was it worth it, both for seeing the end (and eventually all of the DLC content) and for getting to watch your video without spoiling myself. Here's hoping Youtube's AI stays away from the rest of your vids, you deserve so much better.

cousinoer5

aaa i'm having weird financial problem stuff and have to unpatreon everyone i'm sorryyy h

Melody Lumina

Heartbreaking to read that your last video, as well as former Mario Maker videos, got flagged for terrorism, because of some dumb AI "algorithm" that someone put in charge. Your experiences with it need to be heard by more people that think AI is the future and needs to be used more, instead of being blocked here behind a paywall, maybe on a YouTube video? I think it would be great if you could somehow put that inside one of them. About the current situation, I think you should appeal if you have the option (I believe you should have it somewhere) if you haven't done that already, this may look scary but I think if a human looks at your video they will understand it's nothing harmful. I've been a fan of yours for years, partly because of your great content and partly because of your quirky style and the way you use music, left because of the negative content a year ago and then missed you so much and saw your video from some months ago on the older channel and then subscribed to your perspective channel and here as well, and now I'm so glad I can have your content again because I really enjoy it and it seems you put your soul into it in the greatest way possible. There is one little minor thing that bugs me however and it is that you put HolFix's Beyond the Kingdom in the beginning of the perspective videos but don't follow that by Kevin MacLeod's Adventure Meme, which I was conditioned to expect happen in years of watching your content, can you maybe consider doing that in the perspective channel as well? Thanks, Roee Sinai

רועי סיני

Poke Question for Ceave: I know you aren't a fan of modern pokemon stories and difficulty, but what do you think about the designs of the pokemon themselves? I know you said you really liked Alcremie, as I do, but are there any others you like as well? Also, what are your thoughts on all of the recent evolutions of old pokemon/ regional variants. Do you think it is just fan service, or are they truly well-designed?

Andrew Medford

Thank you so much for the kind words and the support! <3 I currently don’t plan on applying any changes to the patreon tiers, but if I continue to run into problems with YouTube I might look into it in the future!

Stefan Maier

That's fucking ridiculous It pains me so much to hear that you don't get the reach (and money !!!) you deserve on YT... I feel like you're one of the very few YT creators that truly and I mean *truly* put their ALL into their videos. The humor, the suspense, the naration, your unique quirky style... It's all so perfect and you can tell it really comes from the heart. It's a grave injustice that the algorithm fucked you over while pushing soulless creators like sunnyv2 who just mass-produce videos for the sake of generating revenue... What pains me the most tho is the fact that I can't do anything at all to help you... I always make sure to like your vids, I interact, I support you on here and I just upgraded my subscription from 5€ to 9€, yet I still feel shitty for not being able to do more... bc you would certainly deserve it... Hang in there bro. We love you. (also please tell us if you know of any way we could help you more) Edit: Is there a way you could set up a 'custom contribution' subscription or something ? I might be a perpetually broke college student, but I could and would happily spend a few more bucks a month to help support you more.

EspressoDepresso

Literally one of your best videos and one of the best videos I’ve seen on the outer wilds. The game changed my life and your video brought me to tears as it made me reflect on how much the outer wilds inspired me to change for the better. I’ve subscribed to your patreon just because of how absurd it is that YouTube did what it did. Stay amazing Ceave.

Abram Allen

And it wouldn't be that big of a deal IF YOUTUBE HAD A FUNCTIONING SUPPORT SYSTEM

Sunbleached Angel

I guess I'm great at predicting aspects of your next video

Andrew Medford

I totally get that. My first playthrough took just under 90 hours, but that was with me using a checklist starting about halfway through so I wouldn't miss any content. Also, fun fact, Google seems to think you are a musician. I googled 'Ceave Gaming' and it said you were a music maker. When is your first album coming out? 😝

Arty Kubin

I love Baldure's Gate even though I still aren't even close to finishing it. Chances are it will sneak itself into a video one day, but an entire vid about BG3 is sadly too risky for me at the moment. The game is just so big that producing a vid would take me 6-8 weeks and I just currently just can't put that many resources into a video if the YT algorithm may decide to burry my work for reasons outside my control.

Stefan Maier

I like the Lego sets, though I do not own any personally. But they also kind of have me worried about the ongoing "franchising" of the Mario brand. Funnily enough we'll touch upon this in the upcoming video! Also, LEGO is great. It's like Minecraft in reality!

Stefan Maier

I wish youtube would show me the things I tell it to show me. You seem like a person with a lot of interests and not a lot of time. I'd be interested to hear how you felt about Baldur's Gate 3 if you ever get around to playing it, assuming you had some interest in it.

Arty Kubin

Another fun question for Ceave. What are your thoughts on Lego Mario? Do you have any of the sets? What is your opinion on Lego sets in general?

Andrew Medford

I think I might have a theory about why your video was shadowbanned. Around 25 minutes into the video, the background contains some mildly disturbing imagery that could have scaled advertisers off. Maybe. Still not sure, but hope this helps!

WonderGamer

Sorry to hear this bad news glad to help with the little bit I can. I also am glad to know there’s an entire movie length video I get to enjoy that I previously had no idea existed even though I have subscribed and rang the bell, Yayy

Danny K

I would've watched the video instantly if I'd played outer wilds. Unfortunately I haven't yet, but it's on my list.

Bob McBob

The outer wilds video was a bomb (Both to YouTube and in the sense that at was really really good)! That was my favourite video from you Ceave. Sorry the algorithm didn’t care.

Alexander Matthies

Somehow, the worst stuff always happens to the best of people. Ever since you've started producing essay-esque videos, your channel has become one of my favorites on YouTube, so it pains me to learn that was also roughly the time when YouTube started giving you massive amounts of shit. Without even knowing about the entire ISIS background, I had always noticed how family friendly your videos were. While I don't really mind the use of Kraftausdrücken in YouTube videos, I do think your avoidance of them gives your videos a unique personality and makes them a lot more fun to watch. Since this should also be exactly what advertisers want, it stinks to know your channel is still getting penalized out of nowhere. Really hope you can eventually get enough financial support from Patreon to where you'll no longer have to worry about your videos doing well! I feel like crowd funding is one of very weapons us "average" people have as defense against a system that is completely rigged against people without ridiculous amounts of money.

RPG Hacker

Thanks giving isn't a thing in Austria and I'm looking forward to the movie! We'll probably talk a bit about it in the Mario video!

Stefan Maier

Something must be up. I've been subbed with the bell on since the announcement and I don't think I've seen the last 3 videos in my feed or notifications :/

Dingle Dee

Fun questions for Ceave. As a non American, what do you think of the holiday of Thanksgiving? Do you or other Austrians celebrate anything similar? Also, what are your thoughts on the, live action Zelda movie announcement?

Andrew Medford

Sorry to hear that the game is not performing well. I'm in the same boat as SpeerTime and playing Outer Wilds currently and will get to the video as soon as I finish it or put it down. I'm actually having a hard time getting into it, so very curious why the game is held in such high regards. Keep up the good work! Hopefully the next video will go viral

TurboK

I haven’t watched the video yet, but I usually save your longer vids for when I can really sit down, get cozy, and give it my full attention. This post was a fantastic read though, and is a very insightful look a really shitty situation that unfairly seems to affect a lot of creators who aim to push the envelope rather than creating slop to feed the algorithm. I’m very happy to be able to support you directly, though, and wish you luck in your future perspective videos!

Harry Cohen

I don't like subscription services, and even less do I like giving money to people that allow me to give money to people I actually want to give money to. But if YouTube doesn't want to support you, someone has to. I'm proud to be a patron of your channels.

Illyon

I’m very sorry about this happening to you, Ceave. It is ridiculous how often YouTube tends to use AI and robots instead of human reviewers, and the system overall sucks if you want anything to happen, there are no shadowban appeals from an AI, and even if there were, chances are YouTube would not do anything about it. Well not entirely related, My YouTube channel is relatively small, but back when I had ~54 subscribers I tried to live stream. I started a stream, didn’t even say a word, and it immediately got flagged. I got a channel strike and lost my ability to livestream. I waited the 90 days for the strike to expire and did not gain back my ability to livestream. I had to beg and plead with YouTube on Twitter for over 6 years until 3 months ago I finally got to restore my livestreaming ability. It was hell to regain it and if I had to rank a ton of companies for customer service, YouTube (and by extension Google) would be at the very bottom in non-existent.

bemwy

The only reason I haven't watched the video is because I haven't finished playing Outer Wilds. Once I finish it I'll watch the video!

SpeerTime

I never noticed how long this post was until I read the whole thing. Also I was gonna watch the Outer Wilds video last night but unfortunately I seemed to have gotten caught in a weird youtube rabbit hole until about 4am so I had to go to bed, but I'll definitely watch it tonight after work lol.

Munger

I am so sorry that happened to you. I think its wierd that it would think you were a terrorist. I wonder why, if it really thought you were a terrorist, it would punish you by only not recommending you to less people. I feel like it should punish actual terrorists in a more severe way, like reporting it to the police and deleting the channel. Glad that didn't happen to you, though!

Andrew Medford

I'm glad I even got to watch it. I thought it was wierd that it only popped up 22 hours after it came out. Looking forward to those future projects!

Andrew Medford

I'm terribly sorry that happened to you. I had noticed that it had only a tiny amount of views, and wondered if maybe people just weren't interested in Outer Wilds for some reason. Even though I'd never played the game, I still largely enjoyed the video. I wonder if its possible to report this issue to YouTube Hq, and if they would do anything about it.

Andrew Medford

I have it in my watch later list for a while now, but I did not have the time yet to watch this massive video.

Jonas Felber

Is it just me or does this text feel like a script for an acutal video?

ChiroKatze07

I should also say that I could be completely wrong here at your handling with something completely different but this is something I’d thought I’d should say

TheLegoNation

Absolutely insane to hear how badly the video’s been doing, luckily was fortunate enough to have the video still recommended to me. YouTube’s algorithm is so fucked, and they genuinely don’t seem to care about any of the creators (evident by the recent stalking/doxxing drama, their horrible copyright system, etc) and I’m sorry you’re on the tail end of whatever new policy they decide to introduce. Your videos give me a whole lot of joy and I’d most like to see them continue, hopefully you can get the momentum back on the perspective channel - we’re all here to support you in that!

Jesper

You do have a really good point but I do also think it has to do with a combination of gaming interest on YouTube. Some games might do better on YouTube because they’re more popular like Minecraft and Fortnite videos are popular because the games are, but for something like outer wilds, that’s definitely more of an obscure game that the other ones. Mario content is popular too but it mainly when a new Mario game is coming out and that’s due to a lot of games at the moment if there’s no new games for a franchise like Banjo-Kazooie than it’s a bit of a bigger risk to do a video on that. I’ve talked to TetraBitGaming about this as well and he’s told me that most of the time, timing works better for him whenever a new game for a series comes out. Although that sometimes doesn’t work for him as that series can also be kinda obscure even if there is a new game. That could also be due to a viewer interest as well like more people might be interested in Mario than Sonic so Mario content does better than Sonic because you’ve built up a channel based on Mario stuff but when you try something different it’s a bigger risk. I’m not trying to say that I disagree with what you’re saying because I do but I think it has to do with a combination of multiple things. Hope that you understand this also I did enjoy your video on Outer Wilds

TheLegoNation

Oh, that is actually a pretty good guess! I'll add it to the list!

Stefan Maier

It's insane that we haven't all collectively moved to a new platform by this point, youtube gives less and and less reasons to stay everyday yet nobody is proposing a genuine substitute.

Redblowup

Maybe it triggered some sort of suicide filter? AI doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that would be able to distinguish between 'metaphorical death of self and the rebuilding of personality' and 'actually killing yourself.' Absolutely sucks on that front though.

Alexander Richards

I also wasn’t pushed the video at all on recommended :/ watching now!!

Danielle Gleason

Wow I didn’t even know a new video released, it didn’t appear anywhere in my recommended. Bad YouTube >:(

edced


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