PATREON ONLY: Xena Warrior Princess 3x12 Reaction
Added 2024-09-30 01:06:07 +0000 UTC
Comments
Can that truly be called a “musical episode” though or just music in an episode? I’m going to have to look these up because I’m curious.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 17:51:01 +0000 UTCI think the episode is called "The producer". And yes, it's not the same thing.
Mats Viktorsson
2024-09-30 15:27:36 +0000 UTCI forgot to add this, but congratulations on finding yourself singing (if only to yourself) The Ballad of Joxer the Mighty. Welcome to the club.
Koz
2024-09-30 12:46:46 +0000 UTCThe only episode of I Love Lucy that I know of that people point to as the first musical is The Operetta, but I don't believe it's quite the same thing as this. I'm not certain what installment of Gilligan's Island you have in mind.
Koz
2024-09-30 11:00:38 +0000 UTCBoth are wrong. There had been musical episodes long before (I love Lucy, Gilligan's island amongst others). HOWEVER, to my knowledge, this is the first time that the music was actually intervowen with the narrative. It almost killed the entire show but it still looks and sounds great. Rob had some balls, that's for sure!!
Mats Viktorsson
2024-09-30 10:28:57 +0000 UTCJoseph LoDuca vs Christopher Beck. But you’re right. It’s more LoDuca vs Whedon. And musically and sonically, ‘The Bitter Suite’ is obviously superior. It’s an opera. However, ‘Once More, With Feeling’ draws from its imperfectness to emphasise its tone and its theme. It’s still very clever too. This makes them performance art.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 05:59:40 +0000 UTCNobody wants Xena and Ares to be together. But you have to admit that he is still important to the narrative and to Xena’s individual story especially. He is her dark side that keeps pulling her back to the past. He will always have that hold on her and you can’t lose that otherwise you lose the whole point to Xena and to XENA. Which is about facing her past and reconciling with the darkness and even evil within her. The ship is obviously Xena and Gabrielle. We all acknowledge that. Even he does to some extent. But the dynamic he has with Xena and Gabrielle is still very important. If it bothers you that much - try to think of it as just a bisexual narrative. The other one. But the one that’s not right for her not necessarily because she’s in love with a woman, but because she’s in service to the greater good and Gabrielle keeps her there. But in order for Gabrielle to keep her there, she needs to constantly feel the pull in the opposite direction. The yin and yang of it. That’s why Ares matters and why they keep pushing with the romantic tones with him. Because then the romantic tones for Xena and Gabrielle are even deeper and greater. As I keep saying. It’s not queerbaiting. It’s straightbaiting. They’re using the Man-Inserts purposefully and cleverly. Ares is the only one that doesn’t feel fake because of his hold on Xena and her nature which is neither on the side of good or evil. But a balance of both.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 05:37:13 +0000 UTCLucy and Renee are right. You're either looking through the eyes of one or the other of them when you watch the show. I am always looking through Xena's eyes. So as much as it may have frustrated me that Xena could never let Gabrielle live up to her full potential as a warrior, I completely understood why because her motivations for doing this were written and portrayed extremely well. The truth was Xena was terrified. There is not much that can scare the Warrior Princess but she was scared stiff of the inevitability that Gabrielle would end up like her. That she would come to know the pain and the heaviness of dealing with war. Of becoming a battle-hardened warrior. She knew she couldn't stop it from happening but she tried her hardest to avoid or prevent it even if it meant stifling Gabrielle's capabilities and all that she had to offer towards the Greater Good. It was more than just wanting to protect her. She wanted to save her from the life that she had lived up until the point of meeting her and the only way she knew how to do that would be to delay her growth. But what was most fascinating was how much Gabrielle resisted that objective. How much she stuck up for herself and defended her right to be treated as an equal partner in fighting the good fight against evil. That's what makes Gabrielle such an appealing character. It's because she refused to let the love of her life restrict and limit her from what she knew in her heart was the truth of who she really was. She was a true warrior. That didn't always mean she was or had to be a physical warrior. But because her true way was to protect and defend, then it was always right for her to become exactly that and that Xena would just have to accept the consequences because if she truly loved her - if she was truly in love with Gabrielle - then she also knew that that was just how it had to be as well no matter how much she may have feared what that might do to her beloved bard because there is nothing romantic about controlling that narrative. The narrative that makes 'Xena: Warrior Princess' so much more worth watching than it would be if the character of Gabrielle didn't have her own individual journey to go on and evolve from alongside Xena's. The show is a love story all throughout and Xena and Gabrielle's all-encompassing and ever-evolving loving relationship is a fundamental element to just how strong and substantial the show writing is. But it really wouldn't be that way if these characters didn't have their own respective individual lead main character stories and they didn't have to figure out how to navigate their lives and their love around them. They were both about protecting the other and I think it was really important to show how that can be unhealthy as well as healthy and that keeping each other safe means that sacrifices had to be made and that they disagreed with each other frequently because of that. It was a very significant point of conflict in their relationship that had to be carefully written so as not to seem incongruous with all the other stories and narratives going on in the show. The writers knew how to write the drama between them as naturally and organically as possible so it never comes off as some soap opera where there has to be The Drama for the sake of having drama. No, the drama was very much tied into their characterization and when you have lead multi-dimensional characters, that characterization will be wavy and fluctuate because real life human beings are wavy and do fluctuate. It might be frustrating to see it but it's important for you to see that relationships of real authentic love are hard work and will always be. But it's as I keep saying... This show is a fantasy show only in its environment and storytelling. Its characters and themes are real. And there is nothing realer than Xena and Gabrielle's relationship.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 04:59:42 +0000 UTCI know it sounds exactly like her, but Hudson never sang. It was Michelle Nicastro. Gabrielle’s voice double on the other hand… That was nowhere near as close. Susan Wood. I believe everybody else sang for their characters. It was just Hudson and Renee that didn’t. Source: I own the soundtrack and the credits tell me. I love Lucy’s deep rich contralto voice. Obviously classically/broadway trained. I can tell just because she knows to close off her notes rather than let them fall off like most contemporary pop singers would do. And obviously all the Broadway productions she’s been in and apart of as well as her stint on Celebrity Duets. The woman knows how to sing and sing well.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 04:54:12 +0000 UTCYou're right that Xena has had Gabrielle on a unhealthily high pedestal of perfection and innocence. But I think it's not only because of how positively she thinks of Gabrielle, but also because of how lowly Xena thinks of herself. Xena doesn't think she is worthy of gabrielle and fears she is and will be a negative influence on her. It's a recurring theme. That will only change when Xena thinks more realistically of gabrielle (like in this rift arch) and more highly of herself.
mary smith
2024-09-30 04:17:03 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, the music and score in Bitter Suite is superior to OMWF. It’s on par with Hans Zimmer. As great a writer Joss is, he isn’t a musician.
Rey
2024-09-30 03:59:10 +0000 UTCThe symbolism of 'The Bitter Suite'. The brilliance of the two time Emmy award-nominated musical episode of 'Xena: Warrior Princess', 'The Bitter Suite' is it's symbolism. The land of 'Illusia' is all based off of the 'Rider-Waite Tarot deck' as well as duality. The attempt to combine the two sets of themes and imagery is what 'The Bitter Suite' is all about. "It's us. Somehow it's all about us.... Everything about this 'Illusia' place has been bright and cheery. The music, the colours. But this place is dark. It's meant to scare us." "Everything about this world has been a torment. We’ve been guided through it for a reason. Whatever happens, we have to go through it together.” "Hatred, Gabrielle, that's what we're fighting, hatred." It is all about Xena and Gabrielle. They are the "Yin" and "Yang" of the story of 'Illusia'. That's why they're depicted as opposites within it. The point behind 'Illusia' is for Xena and Gabrielle to realize that everything they do to each other, positive or negative, is because they truly do love each other and go to extremes lengths to show it. The characters that show up in 'Illusia' are from the the Major Arcana deck of cards and they represent the meaning of the moment or the mood of Xena and Gabrielle at that moment. It is incredibly well-thought-out. 'Illusia' is not a place or a land as such. It's a state of consciousness. Xena and Gabrielle are not really there. They're washed away in the sea somewhere while, in their minds, all this is going on for and to them. They are merely dreaming it. Often in episodes of the show, characters are able to get to other characters through their dreams. Through dreamscape passages, like in 'Dreamworker' where Xena had to get to Gabrielle. The character that's doing this to Xena and Gabrielle in 'The Bitter Suite' is Solan, who's card imagery representation in 'Illusia' is 'The Sun'. He controls all that is going on with them. His intention is to get them back together again. To reconcile their differences. To help them understand that their love cannot be destroyed, it can only get distorted through hate, anger and pain. Through 'Illusia', he is able to help them forgive each other. Forgiveness is the key to making it out of there. I'm not going to explain what cards the other characters, like Callisto, Joxer and Ares, represent in the 'Rider-Waite' deck. I just want to explain Xena and Gabrielle because that's the most important thing to pay attention to as their imagery changes all throughout the stages they go through and I want you to know the significance of those changes. To start off with Xena is 'The High Priestess' and Gabrielle is 'The Empress'. Later Xena is 'The Queen of Swords' and Gabrielle is 'The Queen of Pentacles'. When Xena and Gabrielle face off, they both become Death but Gabrielle's outfit does not change until they enter the stage of "The Hall of Echos' which represents the card of 'The Tower'. Here Gabrielle becomes 'Temperance' and Xena's outfit only changes when they get thrown into the next stage and they get tied up to their respective "torments'. That being of Xena's crucifixion and Gabrielle's raping. Here Gabrielle gets her signature outfit back while Xena dons a worn-out purple shift. I don't know what cards these are supposed to represent but it seems like Xena's just wallowing in her guilt and self-contempt while Gabrielle feels strength and vitality. There is also the card of 'The Lovers' which represents the both of them struggling to hold their relationship and having to make choices they don't want to out of ignorance and stubbornness. Again, all this is to show them that they will always love each other and nothing could ever change that. Not even themselves. It's a incredibly creative and artistic episode. Look up the meanings for each card and character for yourselves. https://labyrinthos.co/blogs/tarot-card-meanings-list http://www.whoosh.org/issue19/meredith.html.
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 03:57:33 +0000 UTCBoth ‘The Bitter Suite’ and ‘Once More, With Feeling’ are really unprecedented for their time in TV. Even though Xena’s musical episode came first in 1998, both Buffy and Xena take the credit for musical episodes becoming pop culture in TV. But they also did the unthinkable by cleverly, not only coincide with the plot, but further it along in that they both have the characters spill secrets and make confessions which aid to evolve respective character arcs and tell a story that has them begin again in new and interesting ways. In ‘Once More, With Feeling’ Buffy confesses she was pulled out of heaven by her friends. Forcing the Scooby Gang, Willow in particular, to process this information and grapple with the seriousness of it. In ‘The Bitter Suite’ Xena confesses that she killed Ming Tien. Forcing Xena to beg for forgiveness from Gabrielle so she can pass through the waterfall. Thereby reconciling and reuniting them, making their relationship stronger so they can battle the real enemy. All of this is done in song. Cheesy? Sure. But clever at the same time. The creators knew that talking about these subjects and themes would be heavy on the audience watching and listening, so addressing them in music was a way of making what was heavy subject material much lighter. And at the same time, they also knew that music is meant for honest expression. So really, how else would or could it work? They ultimately made the right decision. As cheesy or silly as it may look on the surface, they achieved what few have… Going deeper without drowning. This is why these two musical episodes remain staples in TV history. It is not just because they’re musicals. It’s because they’re musicals with depth. They could have just been some silly entertainment for the cast to have fun with and show off their talent and nothing more. Instead they were much, much, much more than that. They were artistic genius. They were performance art. And you will find it difficult to truly understand either of these shows without them. As my soul brother Sweet put it: “Now, we’re partying. That’s what it’s all about.”
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 03:54:13 +0000 UTCMy favourite episode of ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and the first episode I ever saw at the age of 5 years old. Imagine turning on the TV one day at the age of 5 and seeing THIS. Your young life would be changed forever. I swear to god. Who would I even be without this show?
Girl4Music
2024-09-30 03:36:52 +0000 UTCI don't remember how I felt about Gabrielle in these episodes when I first saw them. (Although I do remember my reaction to Gabrielle shouting "I HURT INSIDE!" I had a visceral reaction to that line. It was so powerful. For some reason I had remembered that scene being later in the series and somehow there was flying involved 😂) ... Anyways, I don't remember how I felt about her, but I imagine I was annoyed. I think a lot of people have an issue with her, but for me this episode is kind of a reason to cut her some slack. Yes, she was being stupid but Xena literally tried to kill her! More than once! Considering the relationship implications of these two and certain things that happen in the future I find myself getting more mad at Xena overall. Gabrielle is such a simp for her and I can't be mad when just about everything she does is for Xena or to uphold goodness. Idk
TurnK
2024-09-30 03:14:19 +0000 UTC"The love of your love is...you"
mary smith
2024-09-30 03:07:12 +0000 UTCYess the marriage counseling musical episode, so good 😁 but wait until the next episode, it's beyond words how great it is
Herbert West MD
2024-09-30 02:44:34 +0000 UTCI will be honest I was worried how you were gonna take this episode. The ending result made me happy. Lol. I love how they turned this episode into a metaphor for each character fighting their own grief and "demons" so they can see how much the other means to them. Then come together then fight the rest of it side by side. That's how relationships work right? Also if you know somethings about tarot there's alot of references.
Bo D
2024-09-30 02:41:41 +0000 UTCWell, let's get this out of the way: whenever reactors watch Buffy and get to Once More With Feeling, someone says that it was the first musical episode of a TV show, and someone else says Xena came first but that Buffy's was much more popular and the one that everyone else followed after. And that gets annoying. Let's be clear: this really was the first, it was actually much more popular than Buffy (and I love BtVS) and THIS is what everyone was taking their cues from. ... This episode is one of the first line of "best episodes," and I don't disagree. You're right, Renee O'Connor doesn't do Gabby's singing voice. Kevin Smith has a fine voice, let's note. ... There's a bunch of weird imagery and symbolism here, including a slew of tarot images. ... I'm glad you liked it!
Koz
2024-09-30 02:37:00 +0000 UTCWas so excited to see your reaction to the last 2 eps, but the next one is probably THE Xena episode! Cant wait to watch along.
Alfredo
2024-09-30 02:18:02 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite episodes and I listen to the songs from here periodically. Thank you for your reaction.
adilja
2024-09-30 02:02:45 +0000 UTC
