+Q/A - Yandere is Here To Stay: Debunking Confusion

Aww I liked the dubcon/ noncon. But I understand it's the creators' decisions and you guys know best. It's your vision.

Michele Docherty

I'm kinda disappointed with the move from of dubious consent because I mean, it's one thing I really enjoy about yandere content. I understand the wanting to make it enjoyable for everyone but it definitely takes away from it for me. Ultimately, it's Sauce's choice and I trust the team will still put out an enjoyable game. But overall, I'm still a bit disappointed with this news.

TheVampireRose

Hey, don't be too hard on yourself. Art and writing are hard. It's hard trying to capture what is in our head. Editing is a natural part of creating things. I look forward to seeing where you will go with WWWSDJ. Please give yourself space to breathe.

The Simping Void

Yeah, I'm gonna need to play through a second demo to make up my mind about this. I had already seen previous patrons questioning their support and being generally on the fence after some other Patreon posts but now, this just feels off. I'm sure whatever the team is putting out, they like and are proud of. I just wish that's what was originally advertised.

Flalfalfa

Right now we have other writers currently working on the game while I'm taking time to iron out the demo. Since the demo is being updated to reflect the updated lore of the game/tone, I'd say this also counts as working on the main game! This is the anchor/thesis statement of the whole story. I think having this demo re-done should have happened sooner! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

When I first played the demo I chose “no”, but I didn’t recognize the “no” route as dub con at all. That didn’t even cross my mind until seeing these posts. It’s interesting seeing how different people interpreted it differently

strawberry squid

Thank you for making this clarification post. I appreciate the QnA format regarding how things will go moving on and look forward to see more of it in the future since I think it circumvents most misinterpretation issues. I hope reworking the demo doesn't detract too much from the main game's development though.

Senchou

People like you are the people who I know in a way, I failed. I'm really sorry that you weren't able to consent to that. The player was intended to say "why would I waste a confession doing something as silly as rebuffing a stranger?" The player didn't wanna waste the moment. I figured I'd done a good job with that! But then I saw people who didn't see it that way, and I understand that that can do actual damage. I've been itching to rush out a proper solution. But it takes a while to get the steam game published, and we didn't know how to port it to mac-- It's basically been caught up in a lot of smaller, hairier issues. But I think now, I've decided that this really can't wait any longer. The team is working on the main game, that's fine. I've grabbed the original demo, and I've not only been replacing the sprites and making the code more efficient, but I've been writing the new script and I've been in contact with Maus (Jack's VA) to replace the content. In this new demo, Nick gets a wayyyy longer scene and more time to bond-- Ian's sordid story is FINALLY canonically revealed-- and the no scene reflects what I had intended to say all along. My heart is genuinely heavy for anyone who played the game and felt gross and unprepared. I cannot apologize enough, but I will make a better demo that corrects this. Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know how you've felt. - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

so, i WAS very uncomfortable progressing through the demo since the "no" option was very much my first choice playing through the game and heavily colored my perception of the demo. when you said that you weren't intending on it being dubious, i fully believe that, and i'm glad that as time passed things have been addressed about the issue that the team has been diligently working on it. so thank you all for your work and thank you sauce for thinking of the players' wellbeing. i hope you all stay well while developing <3

seapierrot

It means a lot that you'd look through the game like that! Sometimes you have a limited vocabulary. I thought the words going into the game were standard yandere fare. But over time, because of people like you, my perspective shifted and welcomed a much wider understanding of yandere games and the types of presented yandere traits that may come off one way or another. Writing yandere safely can be really tricky, because the characters walk a really shaky line. Jack loves you. He wants you to consent first, and his priority is NEVER to hurt you. (I personally prefer writing yanderes who don't understand why they'd hurt someone they love so much.) (Of course, that doesn't mean collateral damage won't be present--) At some point, I believed I'd made that point pretty clear, but I became open to the idea that I still had work left to do. They're getting fixed now, and I know I'm not the best at explaining things but everyone's been really nice and I feel overwhelmed with the patience and kindness they've exhibited during what ultimately is my own error! Nobody is entitled to a chance to explain themselves, so it really means a lot. Thank you all! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

That's understandable. Thanks for the clarification! It's nice to see concerns being addressed and I hope that the game development goes smoothly.

FarShootingStar

An astronomically huge improvement to hear the measures taken to improve on the writing and sensitivity of said scenes! ★ It took me a few minutes to begin to see a the uncomfortable vibe of the “no route”, even though I wholeheartedly supported the demo in its entirety when I first found it. I tried to convince myself otherwise that maybe I was looking too into it because the game itself had warnings that it wouldn’t be dub-con in nature, but of course at the end I couldn’t. I’m so happy to hear that these issues were not only fixed, but that you were able to see as well how they were bad and against what was told in the game. It is very easy to get caught up on one’s own work if they don’t have extra eyes looking on it for assistance. Every explanation is much appreciated with this one, thank you for your transparency! I intend to keep supporting the game as well as every person behind this studio as a collective, and I hope that you, Sauce, and all rest yourselves accordingly as you work. I put trust in the developments of Snaccpop’s works and I’m looking forward to the changes promised, as I know there’s only so much you can show to the public (Patreon) at this time. Thank you kindly for this informative post! ☆

Saturn - Stari ☆

People have the right to consent to what they want to see. And the fact that the words I wrote left some people feeling like that right was revoked has been a year+ long failure of mine. I can't apologize -enough-. But I hope that the work being put into this shows people that even if you didn't feel heard in the moment, you were. And you should have felt that way all along. - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

When I first joined the Snaccpop Patreon, Sauce wasn't in a very good place. It's wonderful to read that's no longer the case ❤ I love the original SDJ demos, and while they didn't make me feel uncomfortable/upset/triggered in any way (maybe I'll have to replay it now and see if anything jumps out at me), the fact that you saw it had that effect on other people, and you apologised and actually took action instead of writing it off and saying something like "oh it's a yandere story, just deal with it or don't play" tells me that Snaccpop genuinely care for their audience, and that I've made the right choice in supporting a group of people who I wholeheartedly believe in.

Bonnie Callahan

whatever SDJ turns out to be, I will love it nonetheless! everyone INCLUDING sauce has been working so SO hard on this project! I am so pumped for whenever the next demo, or the final product comes out! stay strong snaccpop studios and sauce! <3

ToyboxToonz

Seconded! You took the words outta my mouth, Damien 💕 /gen /pos

weaseltongue

hey i rather you guys be comfy as well! im not disappointed at all, in fact, its a awesome step! ^^ you guys are doing all you can, and i think you're doing a great job in my opinion, i'll support all the way! <3 <3

Damien

I think the re-writes are a great idea! It gives the clearer vision from what was the original demo without a story end goal in mind to now a story with a fleshed out vision and pacing behind it. I feel as though this is a step to getting closer to your vision as the creator, and it gives a delightful sense of growth from your solo writing to what to expect from the lovely indie team! I am excited to see what you do. Remember, this is your story, Sauce; tell it how you intend it!

ChickieDee

hey! For me, I am happy as long as you feel comfortable with what you create. Until now, you have not disappointed me or anything with what you have been delivering. In fact, you have improved a lot and very quickly. I know that many people find the "no" route uncomfortable and everything. But that's what I think, that's what a yandere does, manipulate and so on, until he gets what he wants. But I wouldn't lie that that change in the "NO" route is pretty cool, I know that the first version made many people uncomfortable with that route but the great thing about you is that you listen to the fans and take the trouble to make those changes, without affect what history is, you are learning guys, it's okay, thanks for your hard work, AND WISH YOU THE BEST! TAKE YOUR TIME! AND THANK FOR EVERYTHING!

Okami Liqueur

This is Sauce! And yeah, it is. A lot of this is me finally being able to make a wholly-present, full-attention public piece that reflects the best of this series. And I'm so sorry that I made it seem like I was dogging on the demo! /gen I believe in improvement. And I might emphasize that too much. That's completely on me. The demos that exist bring people a lot of joy-- but I've always wished I could have done it better. I want to always bring my best to everything I do, and I've worried a lot that the demo (for all it is) wasn't my best. I could have done better. I understand sitting on the fence. You're part of the people who I do want this demo to be better for. The rest of the script looks really nice! But compared to it, the older script is really lacking. But it isn't cool to make you feel like the thing you supported was inferior. Truth be told, without people like you, the ability to tell the story with furthered skills and techniques wouldn't be there at all. I wholly apologize! Hopefully this comes across the way I mean? But I see your point about warning, then doing. Working on this demo right now, and I'm really excited to show it to you all! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

Apologies for that! I (Sauce) sent out a half-typed reply but I meant to delete THAT. (New Patreon doesn't really work all that well.) I wrote the original game believing that nothing I was saying in the game was dubcon. I believed I was writing a 100% consenting game! Over time, I've learned that consent (and feeling pressured into intimacy) are conveyed in different ways than I'd thought. Sometimes, you need a flat-out "I consent" moment. It's not like movies, where you can "feel the chemistry", and characters rush into each other's arms just "knowing". Seduction was the intent-- but seduction with a first player game needs to be executed VERY differently. Our publisher first used Dubious Consent as a safety tag. I originally objected-- but then I started seeing the responses about the "no route". I thought to myself "wait-- the player isn't saying no to Jack. They're saying no to wasting the moment to confess here!" That was the start of the problems. I do recommend looking through some of the other replies if you'd like more parts of the story! But overall-- We've been hinting at rewriting those scenes for a while. And as the game aged, so did the need to re-write. I want a game where the player feels lovingly pursued and seduced. That's awesome. But the sex shouldn't be the horror. I'm decently sure that helps to answer the question, but if it doesn't let me know! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

DeadDoozy

Admittedly, I (Sauce), haven't been doing very well to update people about this. Not as good as I could be! I've handled this alone, since it wasn't fair to have the studio "handle" this. I wrote the work, and I'm doing my best to make this transition personal, transparent, and inclusive. I'm dedicated to crafting a good story too! But this matter needs to take the forefront. - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

The sex was never meant to be the horror. And looking back-- The moment that changed me was when I replayed the demo and Jack frowns at you after you don't give him a certain measure of intimacy. I recall thinking that that was deep. That it told you he was a yandere, and he loved you! (Circa 2021-2022) But playing it again, I realized that that didn't reflect and really did contrast my visions for the game. I don't play the demo often. I've only played it as I developed it. This is my folly, yes-- and I was so tired after making the demos, I didn't want to see the game for what it was. It took playing it in a time where I hadn't spent hours playing it and skimming through it over and over to realize why it was there was discomfort, and how this wasn't seduction. I think that in order for Jack to be a yandere, you need to believe he loves you. The Jack I wrote loves you-- but this Jack I'm writing actually acts like it! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

Yep. Sauce here-- and no. It didn't end up aging well. Those scenes were meant to be seductive. But they were safety tagged as dubcon after the matter and we've had a revised edition sitting on the counter for a while. But it wasn't until we had enough of the final story going on that we knew what to do with the whole of the demo!

SnaccPop Studios

This is a bit of a tricky story! Originally, the demo was released as was, written by Sauce (commenting presently!). The original game was released without beta testing or checks from any third party. Down the line, people began posting to Twitter about how they felt about the phrasing of the game. This part was far from intention and was meant to be swapped out over time. (There are some year+ older tweets mentioning the removal of the problematic "No Route" phrasing. See: https://x.com/SunnyDayJack/status/1560782320533118976?s=20 ) The tagging was additionally added through the publisher, Project Enso. Dubcon was not a part of the original vision, but there were meant to be seductive elements to the game. As to whether or not seduction required that tag was difficult to determine, but it was left there at the publisher's caution for safety reasons. (We have done our best to imply that seduction was more the angle we've been going for.) Until the new update could be posted, it was a concern that someone could find a trigger in these unintentional phrasings! It's always been 100% canonical that Jack cannot do anything you don't consent to. This is for story reasons -and- content reasons. The current demo is an updated port of the original demo. However, as mentioned here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/sunny-day-jack-90099502?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link it simply has not aged well. And I alone (Sauce) am the person to take responsibility for all this. Writing the story itself has been a messy process that followed me through moving across the USA, then across the world-- I apologize and am sorry that it's bounced all over the place and back. I hope you'll enjoy the story, and I hope that it'll be a rewarding narrative experience for you! If not, that's perfectly okay too! If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them! - Sauce

SnaccPop Studios

(reposting because my original comment was deleted) didn't the content warnings (for the itch.io version at least) use to list dubious consent? how was it "unintentional"?

hetablerg

This

Waffle Milk

Thank you for the consistent updates and the in-depth, transparent discussion of things the community may be wondering about. Looking forward to seeing what the future holds! The dedication to this project is incredible and I'm proud to be supporting it. ♡

weaseltongue

M

I'm glad that the yandere and horror content is here to stay! That's the main thing I was afraid of in all honesty. But I feel like you're not being upfront with the fact that there WAS dubcon content in the first few versions of the game, even if you say it was unintentional dubcon? It feels like it is just being walked around instead of just saying it outright. The original demo and updated demo had dubcon. That's it. Not wanting to have that anymore in the full game is fine! I get wanting to change things as development goes on, but not admitting that it was there just feels like blatant lying. I apologize if I sound harsh. It is not my intention, and it is hard to convey the tone one has in mind over just plain text. I became a patron because I fell in love with this game and what it could become, and everything else that Snaccpop has made and has behind the scenes. But between this and my previous gripes and even seeing criticism that others have brought up elsewhere that takes the words out of my mouth with how certain themes are being handled, my faith is starting to dim. No one has to agree with me, that's fine. I am just stating my opinions as a patron who has been here for a while. Just please be nice with each other when discussing this, and especially with the team.

Dracoraptor

Didn't know the dubious consent was unintentional, haha. Tho you did write that all sex stuff is going to be consensual on itch.io page, and I did think that it didn't match the dub con scene

YonYonYon

Interesting seeing how dubcon was in the game yet now it’s an error.

Waffle Milk