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Shera 4x3 Reaction, "Flutterina"

Enjoy! Filming more AOT and Shera tomorrow, and will let you know when we plan on posting more!

Comments

Nobody is trying to justify Catra's actions. Nobody is saying that she's somehow doing the right thing. Catra's actions are wrong. No argument there...and nobody's saying otherwise. Catra's a villain, but knowing WHY she's a villain keeps the door open for her redemption.

Werrf

To Montana’s point of continuing to justify some of Catra’s actions because of her upbringing it makes me think of someone who was hit as a child who grows up to have kids. There are always two choices. The parent who chooses to beat their children because “I got beat and I have the power now and I turned out fine” is not a victim at that point, and I think that’s where we’re at with Catra at this point in the story. Catra has been acting outside of the influence of Shadow Weaver and Hordak for long enough that her actions are solely her own, and it is clear that she has chosen villainy.

Derek Chase

"Is Catra a villain?" - Yes, at this point in the story she is. HOWEVER, knowing her background and knowing WHY she's a villain keeps the option of her redemption open.

Werrf

This show would so not even think twice about naming a dairy-themed character 'Butterina'.

Carabas

Flutterina is by far the most adorable character design ever

MegumiMary

this is literally what I always think about too 😂

Liz

Yeah I was interested in what else Montana had to say in her response because it definitely made me re-think Catra's situation

Liz

I have often thought that many of her "we are NOT friends!" exclamations carry the unspoken conclusion "I am your commanding officer."

emelsi

That's basically spot-on. We're talking about two people (Catra & Scorpia) that have severe emotional trauma based around abandonment & while Catra deals with that by being emotionally distant, Scorpia does the opposite & become extremely co-dependant & clingy.

John Alexander

I think Montana will appreciate this- there's a TikTok that had a semi viral audio that was generalized about women who are villains that goes "I don't forgive Catra because she's a homosexual. I forgive Catra because she's sexy.. and I'm a homosexual."

christian

another five-by-five takes avid watcher! haha

Ark

As horrible and mean as Catra is being to Scorpia, it’s important to remember that this whole time Scorpia has been forcing a relationship that Catra never wanted in the first place. Catra has told her, repeatedly, that they aren’t friends, and Scorpia continues to ignore that. Scorpia has also violated Catra’s boundaries numerous times (physical touch/need for personal space). So while I flinch at Catra’s demeanor towards her in this season, her discomfort makes sense. This isn’t necessarily a 100% one-sided ‘bad relationship’. These are two people needing very opposite things. It’s just one of those “bad place and time” situations.

Angsty.Lesbian.Cat

As I understand it, Flutterina has always been Double Trouble. I think Double Trouble can also create characters, instead of just impersonating someone - so they created Flutterina as the perfect infiltrator for the Princes Allience, because everyone just sees Flutterina as someone sweet and innocent who fangirls over She-ra. Also, concerning Catra's potential redemtion: I think a character being a villain does not exclude them from redeeming themselves. The fact that Catra does feel guilt and is either pushing everyone who reminds her of that away, or tries to destroy them, is an indicator that she can be redeemed. The way she's headed only leads her to spiral more and more and I think before she can redeem herself, she needs to hit rock bottom.

Maubeerbluffin

Cheyenne! I've been rewatching the Korra reactions and I missed her randomly showing up on these, haha.

JuanderfulJuans

highest compliment I've ever received <3/hj

Migli

lol since my mini-essay somehow got accidentally deleted, I just wanna say that all Catra-apologists are hot and sexy ❤️ /hj

hex

Catra's like a hybrid mix of the worst parts of both Zuko and Azula's upbringing. How fun.

exhausted

Flutterina is an original character of Double Trouble.

Crown Magus

Damn Kenny if only you stayed true to your theory instead of backing down lol

Stephen Richard

Kenny, you'll see it when you're editing for youtube but nobody at the party acknowledges Flutterina, there is no Flutterina. She is an original DT creation designed to be; A - someone you'd never expect to be a spy & B - someone Adora would immediately trust (ie, a She-Ra stan). Here's how you know, nobody in Bow's group was the least bit concerned that Flutterina wasn't with them. I mean, either that or DT just straight up killed the real Flutterina (who nobody in Elberon liked anyway) but's that a bit dark, even for season 4.

John Alexander

I don't see how I spoiled anything all I mentioned was the number of episodes in the show as a whole compared to avatar how her trauma has effected her up to this point and thus how she isn't quite irredeemable yet I haven't mentioned anything outside of events that have already occurred ?

Migli

Huge spoilers. They are not that far in the show, I would really consider deleting this post.

Ci-Ci

Huh. I don't even watch wrestling and thought it was the origin. I've only ever heard it used in things like TVTropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaceHeelTurn

J. Jenny Jameson

I think the app did it, I havnt deleted any comments haha

Letts React

Can‘t wait for the rest of the season 😍

Haorii

Turn heel is a common phrase meaning to go in a different (opposite) reaction. The wrestling-specific use is not the normal use of the term.

Stephen Ray

OMG YES!! You said everything that I was trying to say in my embarrassing ramblings haha. I never understood why so many people are so quick to compare Zuko and Catra as if they were equals and had the same experiences and chances. I always thought Catra's story was more painful in a way. At least Zuoke had Iro there to show him, unconditional love. Some might argue that Catra had Adora at the beginning and could have gone with her but fail to see that they were the same age being pitted against each other from childhood. When Adora left, all Catra saw (besides the pain) was that the favorite child failed the 'parents' and this was time to become the 'perfect' child. But when she was still treated like crap and Adora was still being praised even after switching sides, she snapped. And at this point is when Scorpia entered the picture which I think was too late for Catra. At that point, Catra was not in the headspace to understand or accept the love and care that Scorpia was/is trying to give her, the one thing she's always wanted. Because at this point Catra had given up on ever getting it. Now I think Catra's story would have been way different if she and Adora were treated the same.

Destiny (deshopeo9)

Now that I'm done rambling lol as always GREAT JOB you two!! I'm excited to get your thoughts on the remaining episodes and how this show plays out! It's great seeing y'all react to a show that neither of you knows anything about! I still love AOT and can't wait for the next ep too1

Destiny (deshopeo9)

Also, Zuko had no feeling towards Aang and without knowing him, he wanted to destroy him just to get his dad's approval and therefore never was 'betrayed' by him like Catra was by Adora. Deeper pain than Zuko when it comes to the relationship with Adora/Aang. Zuko had a loving mother and uncle who taught him how to be good and chose to be bad even though he still had his uncle. Whereas Catra was only taught how to be bad. There is a difference between Scorpia trying to be a good friend and teaching Catra how to be good because technically as much as I love Scorpia she was raised by the Horde. Adora learned from Glimmer and Bow (and their group) that there is more to life and Scorpia learned weirdly from Emily and Entrapta. Besides Scorpia, everyone Catra has remotely tried to care about has in a sense left her. Zuko had family who loved and stood by him no matter what, Catra did not. Also, Catra is a hurt, angry being whose purpose is to destroy Adora, not the world. I feel that Catra's real reasoning behind her actions/choices is hidden behind the Hordes and what she and Adora wish for. When Adora left and got new friends it cut Catra (and I don't think you will understand just how much until season 5) that it completely shattered and blinded her to the point that her only goal is to do whatever it takes cause Adora just as much pain. Or I just read too much into it. Who knows? In my opinion, the only 2 characters I viewed as true villains in this show was Shadow Weaver and Horde Prime

Destiny (deshopeo9)

I can kind of understand that Kenny is not giving Catra a chance but rooting for Zuko. However, Zuko had his uncle from the beginning to help him while Catra had no one! And Scorpio came too late in the story I think.

Destiny (deshopeo9)

Quite the debate you 2 had at the end there. Cant wait to see how both of y'alls opinions shift throughout the season, or if they stay the same

Renee Salinas

Except Azula was favored by her evil parent, like Adora was. Catra got the Zuko treatment from Shadow Weaver.

Jenny D

Also can I just say it's great to see that Montana does have that empathy for Catra's trauma. Every now and then you find someone who works in mental health support that doesn't have that empathy and it's a terrible match.

fr0st

Spoiler there mate

fr0st

Although their are comparisons between Zuko and Catra ,Avatar only has 3 seasons but each is 20 episodes so Zuko redeems himself in in the 50th overall episode of 61 total, where as despite She-ra having more seasons, there are only a total of 52 episodes, therefor until you reach the penultimate episode of season 5 would Catra've been evil longer than Zuko Also consider how, despite both Zuko and Catra having rough upbringings that lead them to being the villain of their respective series, their situations are different and will affect them in different ways, Zuko was scarred and outcasted by his evil father but Iroh was still a good parental figure to replace his father, where as Catra was born and raised by ONLY evil people to believe, anything Adora did wrong was her fault, and regardless of if she did good or bad she would be punished, therefore now, after feeling abandoned and holding resentment towards both Shadoweaver and Adora, she blames Adora for all the pain she went through that made her who she is, and so anything she does now that is bad, she blames on Adora. is it logical no not at all, but trauma doesn't care about logic Catra IS a villain no denying it, shes diving down the dark path head first, its a matter of when will she hit the bottom...

Migli

I think I'll wait for Montana's opinion on that.

JHB

An Important contrast between Iroh and scorpia is that Iroh was Zuko’s only support his entire life. Personally catra is more like the Azula to adora’s zuko, and because of the dynamic of who azula and catra are it Isn’t fair to say she had the same chances as adora to change. I think Scorpia and catra are more like Ty lee and azula, where the relationship is negative because of fear and the refusal to expect better. Like scorpia is unintentionally enabling catra in a way that isn’t her fault but contrasts the dynamic between Iroh and zuko

Soren

I'm confused why was my comment deleted?

hex

Replying to myself because I have more thoughts, this stage of Catra's emotional journey matters to me a lot. As the disfavored child, she spent her entire life with zero control over the outcomes of her actions. She could do no right, no matter how hard she tried. Even clear success and achievement was spurned (denied love) even while the favored child was rewarded for the same (given love). She lacked any ability to influence the way she was made to feel. Even later, as she managed to rise in the ranks in the Horde and gained authority and power, actual recognition (love) was never forthcoming from Hordak ("Clearly I was wise to promote you."), and therefore no matter how much power she wielded, she was still not in control. Hordak was still the ultimate authority, and he demonstrated repeatedly that he was capable and willing to discard her. Now, after usurping the throne, Catra has everything she ever told herself she wanted. She has control. For the first time ever, she is the master of her own fate. Now that she has control, who is supposed to give her the love she's been seeking for her entire life? Where is she to find that precious intangible thing?

emelsi

YES THIS ALL OF THIS!

Migli

Or maybe I do it instead cause I called it 🤫

Letts React

Yeah, great discussion. There's a middle ground I feel like was not touched on in this discussion where you can have empathy as Montana clearly does for someone who has had a rough upbringing or life but you can also say that their actions and how they lash out as a result of that hurt or trauma is not okay. It doesn't have to be a this or that position, just that we can understand her trauma but the way she is acting it out is not acceptable. If she wants to be better, we can support that but her choices right now are both a result of the trauma and not okay.

fr0st

That discussion at the end was EXCELLENT. Kenny one thing about comparing Zuko and Catra is you emphasized "rough upbringing" as being an excuse with a shelf life, which is fair. However, their childhoods are not equivalent in terms of the actual lessons imparted. Catra was constantly told and made to feel as though she herself was not responsible for her own actions - Adora was. So every time Catra tells Adora, "This is your fault," even when referring to something she herself did (setting off the portal, kidnapping a town), she isn't just saying that to be mean, she actually believes it on an emotional level. And Adora does too! Because that was their childhood dynamic under Shadow Weaver! So as we come out of last season where Catra had a meltdown and attempted omnicide, it's relevant to her current state of mind that she is incapable of controlling her emotions with specific respect to her own actions. She appears to be struggling with guilt, specifically regarding her betrayal of Entrapta. Guilt is probably an unfamiliar feeling for Catra, as, again, she has been taught since a young age that she is not responsible for her actions, that absolutely anything she does will be treated with contempt, and that the person "actually" responsible for Catra's actions will always and forever be loved. So if Catra does something good, she is unloved and Adora is loved. If Catra does something bad, she is unloved and Adora is loved. Therefore, actions, bad or good, do not matter. This guilt about Entrapta seems to be seeping in because this time Catra understands that she did a bad thing, and nobody could possibly be held at fault for it other than her. One of the first times that she probably ever felt ownership of pride in doing something good was way back in Season 1 when the holograms of her childhood gave her the perspective to value herself and her achievements. Now, she is feeling ownership of the shame and guilt in doing something bad. That is a new experience for someone who has been taught for her entire life that *everything* she does is bad, and who therefore felt a complete lack of control over the consequences of her actions. Anyway, that's just how I think about her at this stage, that it isn't just as simple as how difficult her childhood was, but rather that it's about the effect it had on the way she is capable of perceiving the world and her own place in it.

emelsi

C'mon, Kenny, your victory lap about Flutterina=Double Trouble isn't fully deserved. You backed off some after you didn't see a real Flutterina in the pit, and then dropped it after their fan-squee-ing performance during the transformation. A right guess that is then second-guessed doesn't rate unalloyed self-back-patting.

JHB

Also The different between Catra and Adora is yes Adora was still treated bad in the horde but way different the Catra. She was treated like the hero in the horde making it easy for her to turn to good. But Catra has been treated worst than garbage and treated like sge was no one with out Adora which is why she feels the need to do everything Adora hates. To prove I’m not just here to be adoras “pet” I can be useful . Best way to do that is by being what Adora hates the villian. I’m gonna be better than Adora when she was in the horde and even destroy her for leaving me and not caring until I looked for her. Which again I don’t blame . But she could definitely redeem herself because she’s still young and she can mature and leave the toxic place. But as far as Scorpia I feel she pushes her out because it reminds her of the relationship she had we itch Adora how she used to want to rule the world just those two before Adora betrayed her. So she pushes anyone away because she feels if Adora my bff I grew up with my entire life can leave me than anyone can.

Kiara Sealey

Yes absolutely. Adolescent decision making, brain structure, and emotional awareness is quite different than that of an adult. Especially when that adolescent has not had their developmental needs met in the emotional care category, and is emotionally abused and at times physically as well .

Ci-Ci

For the villian question I can understand both sides but I don’t think it’s 100% Catras fault considering from her birth till now she was raised by evil people who tell you emotions aren’t important. Also of course she’s going to be evil if she was raised by evil. She feels like if I destroy the world I’ll get back at Adora but you never questioned why does she not care about dying? Catra is an intresting topic but to blame her all the way is wrong because if she was never raised like that it was uldnt have ever happened. That’s just facts

Kiara Sealey

I think I meant 3/1, my bad

Letts React

Plus I don’t think it’s true. Zuko chose to join the good side halfway through season 3, in episode 50 of the whole show. 4x03 of She-ra is only episode 29 of the show.

Jenny D

The 'next episode' date of '4/1' doesn't seem right.

Frank Wales

Also Shadow Weaver is a full adult whenever we see her. Catra begins this journey as a teenager and I do think that that matters.

Suplee215

Yeah definitely more of a ‘set up’ episode. Still good but I agree everything from here on out is the cream of the crop!

Ci-Ci

Yes SW never is shown with remorse or shown thinking about things she has done with anything but self approval. Catra on the other hand is shown struggling with the things she does-even if she tries so hard to cover up and run away by using anger and cruelty.

Ci-Ci

Oh if u guys are still taking request I suggest KIPO

Adri

I love the discussion you guys had about catra its like watching the two sides of the fandom Except you guys are actually being adults about it but I am on Montana pov but I also see Kenny’s Point of view too I think it’s a mix of both can’t wait for season 5 reaction

Adri

Yeah Catra is still very much responsible for her own actions, that’s why I say she’s still a villain but her actions are a definite result of her victimhood. Personally I wouldn’t say she’s irredeemable tho because that’s moreso up to the people that she’s wronged to decide and I don’t think she’s too far gone at this point (unlike Azula, whose sanity basically snapped)

Chelly

And yea, Scorpia is not an Uncle Iroh because Scorpia is the same age and another teenage/young adult. to expect Scorpia to have the wisdom and experience that Uncle Iroh had to guide Zuko through life is unreasonable and that is what was needed.

Suplee215

I think Catra is 100% villain but I don't think she's an irredeemable one. I think Shadow Weaver on the other hand is irredeemable to put this in perspective. I also think a lot of Catra being a villain is her fitting herself into the role as a mask. As she said in season 3, why does Shadow Weaver get to be a good guy? if shadow weaver is on the rebellion side Catra going be on the opposite side and if that means she needs to be a villain, well she'll wear it with pride.

Suplee215

Loved the discussion at the end about Catra’s villain-hood. You guys really brought up some interesting points, and I found myself agreeing with both of you at times! I agree with Montana that Scorpia is no Iroh- she would need to be a parental figure, like that of the person who gave Catra her trauma to begin with, AKA shadow weaver. For Zuko his dad abuses him and iroh fills the gap. Catra would have needed a replacement SW to subvert her course to opening the portal. I also somewhat agree with Kenny, in that, once Catra almost destroys the world- her trauma is not a factor anymore for the protagonists and she is a ‘Villian’. But a complex one, with trauma pushing her down that path,and to Montana’s point I still think her trauma matters and clearly is a driving force of the messed up choices she is making, but she would be considered a war criminal at this point lol. All your thoughts on catras path have me really interested to see your opinions and thoughts on what happens with her character by the end of the show!

Ci-Ci

I totally agree too, I just think some of the parallels are interesting!

Letts React

I totally agree they have a different relationship, I think where we arrived is Shes def a villain rn, and actually had less support than Zuko by a lot, but at some point she has to stop choosing destruction actively. Kinda like azula

Letts React

This was a super awesome reaction this episode, loved it as always! And props to Kenny for scoring a genius counter! (There will be a genius counter added for that in the YouTube version, yes?) This episode had some deep ideas being discussed. In my understanding of the word villain, you don’t have to be 100% evil to your core to be considered one. It’s more just a statement of what your contribution to the plot of a story is. Under this definition, Catra is undeniably a villain, as her main purpose (at least so far) is to act as an antagonistic force against the struggles of the protagonists. Her being a sympathetic villain doesn’t make her not a villain. I have to agree though with Montana that Scorpio isn’t an Iroh. She’s similar in that she is a positive force in Catra’s world, but she doesn’t have as much of an impact on Catra as she is not a parental figure. There is something about parents and parent-substitutes that just affects a person more than friends/siblings/partners. Finally, I liked the idea of Catra being able to redeem herself through saving Angella, but I disagree that it’s the ONLY way. I think ultimately what she needs to do is redeem herself in Glimmer’s eyes, which means any action that Glimmer views as being proper “amends” would work. For instance, she could save Bow, or Adora, or someone else important to Glimmer. Or if she just saved a large enough number of people who are not so close to Glimmer then maybe that could work too. Ultimately as the most-wronged party, it’s up to Glimmer to decide if/when Catra is redeemed.

Rory Fitz

So excited, in my opinion this is the last meh episode of this show, everything after this is gold

Grif H

Not SUPER important, but I think you mean 'turn face' not 'heel'. Heel usually refers to the antagonist in wrestling. We talk about turning heel more often because that's usually more entertaining.

J. Jenny Jameson

Exactly. Scorpia never stands up to Catra, and thus can't earn her respect. Catra can't learn anything from her, especially since she has to keep doubling-down on justifying her bad decisions.

J. Jenny Jameson

I watched the first 3 episodes of LoVM last night at midnight lol. It's pretty good, not sure how well it's going to do outside of the Critter community, but pretty good none the less.

Matt Lievens

Shera reaction who. I'm just here for the toe beans.

TrixieTurner

When you finish she Ra I highly highly recommend Carmen sandeigo on Netflix it gets slept on

Geneva

I believe everyone can be redeem

Kamo Da Great

I'm with Montana, I don't think Scorpia is an Iroh... This was a very interesting discussion...

Valentina M

I think at this point Catra is a villain and a victim of course, what happened to her is horrible but that doesn't excuse her commiting war crimes, although I feel she can still do one good thing to change her path. About Zuko, he pretty much helped to almost destroy the world when he joined Azula, if Katara hadn't healed Aang and he died, the Fire Nation would've conquered the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes later and used the comet to end the rebellions. And Scorpia is amazing but she isn't a mentor figure to Catra, Scorpia is still a young person trying to find her own path and be more confident and self-assured

Marlon Torres

Both of your thoughts on Catra are FASCINATING, I literally cannot wait for you to watch the rest of this series. Your discussions at the ends of episodes are my favorite things about your videos. Well, that, and the general simping for the hot cat lady, lolol

Leighton Williams

I think Catra’s a villain and a victim. Traumatized individuals often have the odds stacked against them. Just because some turn out okay doesn’t mean they all do, especially when they continue operating on that same self-destructive cycle they’ve simply grown used to (and most don’t even realize their own habits). It’s like, imagine how Zuko would’ve ended up without Iroh. Also, Scorpia isn’t like Iroh because she’s not wise or self-assured, and Catra doesn’t view her as a mentor at all. She doesn’t look to her for advice. So they really aren’t comparable imo. I wish Montana had stood up for herself more in the discussion lol

Chelle

I think the point about Zuko choosing to be good way faster than Catra is kind of unfair. Zuko was never alone, he always had Iroh to guide him. Catra never had anyone good to raise her. Bad behavior has always been rewarded. She’s similar to Azula in that way.

Mykel Hogan

As soon as Flutterina had three lines in a row about how great the rebellion was I was 100% convinced she was Double Trouble. I've seen too much TV.

J. Jenny Jameson

Can't wait to watch (well I can because I just got home and didn't see Legends if Vox Machina but I'll watch this as soon as that is done)

Suplee215


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