Ep. 770 - Civil War
Added 2024-04-16 13:00:19 +0000 UTCDavid, Devindra, and Jeff fall into the world of Fallout, count the many merits of Hundreds of Beavers, and sing the praises of Bluey - The Sign. Then they head into battle to discuss their thoughts on Civil War.
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Weekly Plugs:
David - Vlog: Chasing the eclipse
Devindra - Engadget Podcast on Humane’s disastrous AI pin
Jeff - Jeff’s Cameo Page
Shownotes (All timestamps are approximate only)
What we've been watching (~00:18:16)
David - Hundreds of Beavers, Scoop
Devindra - The Sympathizer, Tokyo Vice (Season 2), Fallout, Bluey - The Sign
Jeff - Fallout, Bluey - The Sign
Featured Review (~01:11:12)
Civil War
SPOILERS (~01:28:56)
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Comments
I’m a lifelong Californian. Sometimes I wish we could secede (peacefully!?) with other adjoining and generally Left states, such as Oregon, Washington and Hawaii.
J Hay
2024-05-04 02:21:48 +0000 UTCNext review: “Anatomy of the Fallout Guy”
J Hay
2024-05-04 02:18:52 +0000 UTCI loved Civil War, but found some of the needle drops a bit disorienting, in particular the De La Soul track “Say No Go”. What was Alex Garland’s intention with the song choice for that scene?
Peter Tribe
2024-04-24 23:57:33 +0000 UTCDid anyone else think Sammy was Devindra-coded?
Tim Langford
2024-04-24 21:52:04 +0000 UTCI wanted to comment on The Running Man, because I'm curious if they're doing a new adaptation of the Stephen King book, or if they're remaking the Schwarzenegger film, as those are VERY different from each other. All the cartoonish, wrestling-inspired stuff and game show aesthetic in the 1987 movie that Jeff liked so much is not in the book at all. In the book it's a very dystopian society, much worse than in the movie, and the main character volunteers to be on a dangerous game show because he's so poor and his wife and daughter are sick. The game show in the book is he is released out into society and must hide for 30 days while a hit squad is trying to kill him, and other citizens can earn money for giving them tips that lead to his murder. Also, it should be noted that Battle Royale took much inspiration from another Stephen King novel, The Long Walk, in which 100 volunteers participate in a contest where they all have to walk until they can't walk anymore, and if they stop walking the guards monitoring them will kill them. The contest goes until only one person is left, and that person wins a big prize. All of the contestants are high school age, they start walking in Maine and just head south down the highway for as long as it takes. The books The Running Man and The Long Walk are both major inspirations for stuff like Battle Royale and The Hunger Games.
Stranger2Reality
2024-04-20 22:11:23 +0000 UTCAlso, this in an excellent quote from Siddhant Adlakha regarding whether the American politics of it “make sense”: “On one hand, that a film uses the United States as a backdrop for such charged images, without looking past the country’s political surface, can be a puzzling experience. On the other hand, Civil War essentially treats the U.S. the way Hollywood productions have treated Middle Eastern settings for the last few decades, as symbols and metaphors first and foremost, with tone and landscape superseding real-world specifics, despite the shocking, naturalistic violence of many modern war films.” https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/civil-war-review-sxsw-2024
Arnoldo Cortes
2024-04-20 12:07:51 +0000 UTCMy main takeaway is that most of the criticism comes down to trying to find who the “good guys” are, even trying to find virtue in the journalists, whereas I think the film is interested in being a “journalist” itself. My reaction to the last 5 minutes was more of an “of course that’s what would happen” but not in a sarcastic way, more like this is exactly how these characters would act in this circumstances based on what we know of them. I think the movie is being extremely realistic, and saying “you want a civil war huh? Well this is what a civil war actually is” in all its confusion, brutality, and ultimately pointlessness. To try to attach morality to it is almost like saying “a civil war makes sense if the other ways are bad enough”. And sure, maybe people already know war is bad, but some days it sure feels like a lot of people are excited for one.
Arnoldo Cortes
2024-04-20 12:00:37 +0000 UTCAgree 100%.
Arnoldo Cortes
2024-04-20 11:52:44 +0000 UTCRegarding the upcoming review for Rebel Moon Deux, I highly recommend going on YouTube and checking out Dan Murrell's review for it. I've never heard him so angry at a movie before. He actually said when he got to the end of the movie that if he was wealthier he'd have thrown rocks at his TV lol https://youtu.be/ocojc6kP4fs Does anyone actually like these movies? I assume they're awful so I don't waste my time with them.
Stranger2Reality
2024-04-20 01:37:14 +0000 UTCYour message Could’ve just caught his eye at a bad time. I hope Dave sees this message.
Jeff H
2024-04-18 23:08:21 +0000 UTCMan I’m definitely in Devindra camp on this one. Loved civil war. I feel like the messaging was fine, War sucks Would’ve loved to hear more of your thoughts on some of the moments in the film.
Jeff H
2024-04-18 23:04:37 +0000 UTCI think the point that Dave is missing about civil war is that the movie is much much much more frightening when it uses real world issues to get its point across. The movie is clearly not interested in addressing these issues, but if it was set in a different reality, or in the future, the visuals (White House attack, real city’s being driven through, real groups being named) would not be as impactful. The movie would not pack the same punch if it was set in another world.
Branden Cancino
2024-04-18 07:34:18 +0000 UTCJeff: 22 minutes spoiling Fallout. David: hundred of beave— [JEFF THROWS HEADPHONES ACROSS THE ROOM]
Phillip Jackson
2024-04-18 02:05:17 +0000 UTCListening to Dave’s review, the SNL coffee talk quote popped into my head - “The civil war was neither civil, nor a war… discuss!”
Todd Reimer
2024-04-17 19:42:51 +0000 UTCCalifornia and Texas, if they were both independent nations, would both be in the top 10 economies of the world. It's not crazy that there would be reasons for them to align against the US government, an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation.
Papool Chaudhari
2024-04-17 18:21:47 +0000 UTCAs for the Summer Movie Wager, I'm looking forward to it, but you guys always start it in the middle of Spring. I know the movie seasons have never actually conformed to the actual seasons in the Modern and Digital Ages. But Memorial Day weekend has traditionally been the kick-off of the summer movie season. I wish y'all were able to hold off two weeks to conform to that. I think even Box Office Mojo still goes by Memorial Day weekend, if I'm not mistaken.
Jeff Gibson
2024-04-17 18:21:17 +0000 UTC🤷♀️
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-17 14:34:13 +0000 UTCNot sure what point you're trying to make, but considering your aggressive tone, I'm not surprised at all that David blocked you on Threads...Dude.
AF
2024-04-17 12:17:54 +0000 UTCI feel like Civil War didn't really have some deep message, I think its main point was "it would be really bad for everyone if we had another civil war." Some might think this is such an obvious statement that you shouldn't need a whole movie to convey it, but unfortunately there's a not insignificant percentage of the population who doesn't seem to realize this. Garland has said in interviews that he believes it's important for people to trust journalists again, but I don't think that's what his main point was with this movie. I think as far as that goes, he's just saying that they simply report what they see. I don't really think it's fair to judge a movie based on its marketing or even based on what the director or writer says in a press tour. The movie was completed before any of that happened, and as such, it should be judged just on what the movie was, rather than how it compared to its marketing or press. For me the movie was merely a visceral warning about where none of us should want to end up, and I thought it was quite effective at this. I really hope people of all political beliefs see it and come away similarly worried about where things could end up. Making it as "apolitical" as it was hopefully will help encourage the people who probably most need that warning to actually see the movie.
Stranger2Reality
2024-04-17 11:45:51 +0000 UTCI think Doom did that as well, because you don't even finish the movie and think "I'd rather play this" ;)
Mountain of Conflict
2024-04-17 08:57:48 +0000 UTCOld enough to remember when The NY Times helped GWB sell a war based on lies. It cuts both ways dude.
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-17 04:14:54 +0000 UTCWas thinking the final shot is what the young photographer will be known for. It’s her “Antifa Massacre” moment.
Greyson Flax
2024-04-17 03:21:39 +0000 UTCIs Xitter?
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-17 00:28:49 +0000 UTCThreads is still a thing?
Wil Johnson
2024-04-16 22:31:30 +0000 UTCI did about an hour before listening to this episode Even Garland himself has said, "On some level, I just wanted to make journalists heroes because I felt that the demonization of journalists was idiotic.” My point is that demonization of "some" journalists isn't without merit. The irony of this movie's release and Garland's comments coinciding with the NPR story which was widely discussed over the weekend is pretty incredible.
AF
2024-04-16 22:24:37 +0000 UTCCane here to ask that
Brian Deaton
2024-04-16 22:13:48 +0000 UTCThat is a weird reading of this movie, far from honoring their courage its depiction is deeply ambivalent. Sounds more like you have an ideological axe to grind that has nothing to do with the film. Did you actually see it?
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-16 22:04:16 +0000 UTCFunny how this film honoring the heroism of American journalism (photo-journalism no less among plummeting subscriptions and a dying mediascape) was released the same weekend Uri Berliner blew the whistle on the Left-leaning culture and group-think at NPR stating their bias got in the way of publishing factual and important stories in the age of Trump and Covid. 'Civil War' was nonsense -- self-serious, self-important, and self-righteous with a terrible script and ludicrous plotting. A colossal misstep for Alex Garland.
AF
2024-04-16 21:47:07 +0000 UTCAlso — Jeff — our family (me, wife, 15-year-old, 3-year-old) watched The Sign IMMEDIATELY. And we all cried. And we all loved it.
Lino Rodriguez Jr.
2024-04-16 21:41:49 +0000 UTCSame
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-16 21:41:02 +0000 UTC**blind buys Hundreds of Beavers right away**
Lino Rodriguez Jr.
2024-04-16 21:40:00 +0000 UTCWho could watch it and miss that?!
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-16 21:32:54 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed the Civil War conversation this episode. Completely agree that Alex Garland is not making this film more legible in his interviews. I don't see anything like the lament for journalistic objectivity that he alludes to. The movie reads to me in exactly the opposite way, indicting the very idea of "just getting the shot". I'm not sure what to make of that as far as Garland's intentions go, but I had a great time with it.
Mark Harper
2024-04-16 21:26:14 +0000 UTC100% with Devindra on this one! I thought this was a near masterpiece. So smart not to tie this directly, and explicitly to today's environment. 10 years from now, 20 years from now; this movie could still be resonant even after Biden/Trump have passed on from our immediate consciousness. And I think David nailed the ending motif of this film. My read is that this is not really about journalism at all. This is absolutely about us, humanity. It's like a much subtler 'Funny Games'. We all run to the theatre to see a film called CIVIL WAR in an election year full of grisly imagery. SPOILER We get to the last 15 minutes where the gnarly war journalist veteran is just completely breaking down with PTSD-like horror, and sacrificing herself for the audience surrogate - Jesse. Jesse and the other journalist have been smiling at each other during some of these scenes. Basically frothing at the mouth to be the first to the execution of the president, barely even looking back once Dunst has died. Not a tear in sight. Absolutely genius film. It's so interesting to see both ends of the political spectrum get this film so wrong - looking at you, Variety and The Daily Post. And lastly it makes complete sense that California, Texas, and Florida would be the states confronting DC/Virginia/Carolinas. These are where the military bases all are! Do you think if America completely fell apart that the partisan Governors would be running things with their typical Blue/Red state rhetoric?? The military installations would take complete control. California has soooo many military bases!
thecrimsoncurse
2024-04-16 21:22:26 +0000 UTCI’m literally crushed, CRUSHED!
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-16 21:19:07 +0000 UTCDave Chen blocked me on Threads wtf! I made a harmless comment that your Civil War takes were spoilery, on the day I was going to see it! I’ve been refreshing this feed for 48 hours for your review, IM NOT THE ENEMY!
Anthony Ryan
2024-04-16 21:18:28 +0000 UTCGreat episode again, as always, but still no mention of Late Night w the Devil!
Asher Maitin
2024-04-16 19:44:35 +0000 UTCWhen it comes to marketing a movie that said movie is very much not, nobody does it better than A24.
Benji Black
2024-04-16 18:47:05 +0000 UTCI’ve so been waiting to hear how Civil War sat with you guys. I saw it on Thursday and liked it but didn’t love it. Was trying to explain to interested friends what it was without spoiling it. Glad to see it caused as much divide among you all as it did in my own point of view.
SirLoin7
2024-04-16 17:23:07 +0000 UTCI loved it. Also y'all didn't talk enough about how good Dunst was. the whole cast was great but she really sold it all for me
Christo
2024-04-16 17:03:37 +0000 UTCI consider Fallout to be one of the best video game adaptations of all time, because after watching 4-5 episodes I took a break, fired up my PS3, and played New Vegas. Nothing else I've seen has driven me to revisit a game like that. The Last of Us was fantastic, but I had no desire to replay it will watching. The Mario movie was visually stunning, but didn't make me reach for my Switch. Fallout made me miss the world and mechanics of the series.
Nervous_NRG
2024-04-16 16:19:08 +0000 UTCSince this movie has led two different podcasts I listened to today to bring up Don’t Look Up, I’m going to say that—love it or hate it—that movie is misunderstood insofar as it is mocking the “protagonists”, too. Maybe not as much as the president or the Bezos stand-ins. But IMO it is also saying that the do-gooders hurt their own cause as much as they try to promote it.
John Halski
2024-04-16 16:13:53 +0000 UTCHere are a couple pieces about Civil War that helped me focus why I hated the film so much: 1. https://www.theringer.com/movies/2024/4/11/24126373/civil-war-movie-review-alex-garland-kirsten-dunst 2. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/22/civil-war-movie-review And here's another piece about the end (?) of Hollywood that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, perhaps in an After Dark: https://harpers.org/archive/2024/05/the-life-and-death-of-hollywood-daniel-bessner/
Brandon Lee Tenney
2024-04-16 15:47:10 +0000 UTCCate Blanchett also was in Crystal Skull with a nothing character and that didn’t help with anything.
Mountain of Conflict
2024-04-16 14:38:29 +0000 UTCWhat’s the plan for Fateful Findings?
Tyler Sexton
2024-04-16 14:14:40 +0000 UTC
