Bonfireside Chat 133: Basics and Ashina Reservoir
Added 2019-04-07 17:40:38 +0000 UTCRemember the Shinobi code, Starving Wolf. This episode begins our full coverage of Sekiro. As in seasons past, we begin with a discussion of the game's generalities and try to place it in the broader scope of From's work. Then, we move on to talk about the tutorial area, the Ashina Reservoir.
Our next episode, in two weeks' time, will cover the first portion of the Ashina Outskirts, up through the Chained Ogre.
Comments
"don't let anyone's thoughts get you so wound up" - guy writing a novel in the comments section of a podcast
Ben M
2024-03-23 19:16:52 +0000 UTCI've spent 50-60 tries on the hardest bosses in the game, I didn't enjoyed that part as much as the rest of the game for sure, but I persevered and managed to finish this game I consider one of the best ever. The combat is just so good!
Adam Hošek
2023-02-07 21:53:03 +0000 UTCI think the special thrust counter is like the ability to redirect lightning. You don't start off with it because it's too OP. You can deflect those unblock able thrust attacks to begin with so the skill counter isn't required. I don't think From Software needs to do anything that they dont want to do. People who want an easy mode for Sekiro remind me of the people who want Death Stranding to be harder. The devs aren't telling people to go to hell. They don't force you to buy their games, and I bet that with patience anybody can overcome the difficulty which is effictively in their own minds. Sekiro needs to be this hard to have good replay value. I can't wait til I start to forget about all of these bosses that killed me 20 times. A year from now you will retain your mastery of the swird, but your memory of the characters (bosses) might have faded to some degree, similar to Sekiro's situation!
Jonah Guibbert
2020-02-06 10:15:23 +0000 UTCI did listen to your actual words, and then re-listened to them. I have a better understanding of what you were trying to say. Your tone at the time just seemed to overshadow your words. You sounded whiny and defensive when explaining it, and maybe that’s why I took it as insecure instead of maybe passionate. Regardless, don’t let mine or anyone’s thoughts get you so wound up. I completely agree that reducing these games to their difficulty is shallow, but certainly doesn’t make them a “fake fan”. They are a fan for reasons you don’t agree with but they are still a fan and I would respect that. Unfortunately, Fromsoft's marketing and ad campaigns of things like “ready to die” promote this kind of thinking, and give players ammunition to look down upon others that find it too difficult. I don’t love these games merely for their difficulty, but it is why I love Sekiro if that makes sense. All said and done I didn’t mean to offend. I would lovingly say from one fan to another, get good :P Thanks!!
Sven
2019-09-27 19:23:32 +0000 UTCThere's nothing insecure about it. There's a whole context and discussion about difficulty that happened around the time of Sekiro's release, which this is in response to, for one, but honestly, for two, I would appreciate it if you'd listen to my actual words. I certainly didn't say appreciating the difficulty is problematic, I said that reducing these games to purely being about difficulty is shallow, which I stand by. I can only speak from my experience, and it's unreasonable to ask me to speak from yours. And for me, the thing that brought me into these games is that Fromsoft makes games that are greater than the sum of their parts. Sekiro, for all its strengths (which we give a lot of airtime to in the season), is focused on one aspect of the company's design ethos at the expense of others. It's fine for me to think that isn't a welcome move, just like it's fine for you to think it is.
Duckfeed.tv
2019-09-27 16:26:18 +0000 UTCHoly cow, I rarely hear someone so insecure about a games difficulty. The rant Gary goes on towards the end of this podcast is something else. He claims that everyone's opinions and reasons for enjoying From Software's games are on even ground, yet calls his listeners "fake fans" for appreciating the challenge he can’t seem to grasp. Why do you care if I like spending 4-6 hours completing a boss and learning it inside and out? Does it upset you that much? Does a player’s opinion change how you play? I doubt it. Make no mistake, Sekiro’s combat requires intense focus and quicker reflexes than previous souls games ever did. Even more so with the lack of online gameplay or the ability to farm for stats. If people want to bow out from finishing this game due to its difficulty, that is perfectly okay. I am not here to tell those individuals to “get good.” At the same time don’t tell me I am not a fan of something for enjoying an aspect of a game you don’t. Fromsoft leaned into the combat harder than any other souls games, and produced the finest sword combat in any game I’ve played. It drew out the best of my abilities in terms of concentration, stamina and memorization through its boss battles. While I do enjoy the artistic, story and overall strangeness of the series, Sekiro raised the bar for me in terms of straight up 1v1 combat. You both do an incredible job and dig deeper into the series more than any other podcast. I applaud your devotion and obvious love for the series. I will certainly continue to support your efforts, but it felt out of character for Gary to become so defensive. THANKS!
Sven
2019-09-27 14:22:55 +0000 UTCLate to the party. I didn't really agree with a lot of the discourse surrounding this game and its difficulty. I struggled with the game, but got over that hump you mentioned, persevered and cruised through the rest of the game. I do agree with your assessment that the final boss is egregious. I've beaten this game four times to date, and each time I get to him, I have to sit and ponder, "Do I really want to beat this game?"
Christopher Cramp
2019-06-10 04:55:42 +0000 UTCThanks Gary & Kole for a great episode. I'm a bit late listening, but feel totally vindicated in supporting your Patreon now I'm finally here! I found your discussion and reflection on the somewhat divisive difficulty 'issue' to be the most nuanced and balanced I've yet to hear. I haven't finished the game yet, and I know (or expect) considerable pain before I do so (I have I think 3 main bosses to to look forward to.) Even at this point I have found myself wondering whether From's next game would necessarily be a no questions purchase for me should it take yet another step in furthering how challenging a game can be, and yet still be an enjoyable investment of time to overcome. My personal stance is that From should be highly commended for what they’ve achieved with the combat mechanics in Sekiro, which I believe sets a new industry standard. To so perfectly provide the feeling of being in a sword fight, where your choice and timing of action matters, and especially compared to most other games, where combat is reduced to numbers and button mashing, is a huge achievement. However, I think the downside of such a sharply defined system that demands such precision, namely the time investment to hone one’s skills, is such that it’s now not unreasonable to recognise this, and start to provide ways for players to ease this burden, should they wish to. The ‘true’ Sekiro experience, absolutely must remain, and I would be happy for this to be communicated upfront and clearly. Any methods to make the game easier can and likely should be integrated into the game’s system and world, such that it is seamless. As you point out, to suggest Fromsoft aren’t smart enough to find ingenious, satisfying, and clever ways to do this is absurd, given the level of sophistication they exhibit across the board. But as others have said, someone else’s decision to experience the game in a manner more of their choosing in no way affects my own, should I wish to stick firmly to the ‘true’ Sekiro experience.
Wizborne
2019-06-04 12:34:35 +0000 UTCFor the "where is the line?" question in terms of difficulty, Dark Souls 3 was the line for me. I really don't like that game, and I disliked Ashes of Ariendel enough to never even play Ringed City. That being said, Sekiro just wasn't nearly that hard to me. Like, sure, Juzou, Genichiro, Demon of Hatred, and the Sword Saint all gave me a lot of trouble when I first got to them, and it seemed super impossible at first. After a bit of practice on reading each character's perilous tells and which attacks had openings you could get inside for vitality damage, I started making progress. My execution never got perfect, but I got OK enough to get enemies to a point where I could cheese them with oil+fire or fireworks or Malcontent for the win. Over the course of the game, I got good enough at deflecting everyone's attacks to make it though a new game++ run. I just finished up a basic difficulty play where I got the Demon and the Sword Saint in one try each, and I'm not amazing at the game or anything. Like, I never managed to beat Sister Freyja without summoning, so I just don't really think Sekiro is harder in any "objective" sense, so I ended really loving it. Just how my experience turned out.
Christopher
2019-05-14 11:47:13 +0000 UTCThanks for the episode. I'm one of those people who does like the challenging boss fights, as well as the area traversal. But I appreciate hearing your point of view. I'm excited to see where this season goes.
Ryan
2019-05-02 10:22:36 +0000 UTCI finally got a chance to listen to this. It is funny because have been thinking a lot about how you make these games “easier” but keep what they are. Garry nails it in this episode. Near the end he suggests that hanbie be able to replicate a bosses move stets. Your totally right, a lot of these fights almost feel like beatsaber levels or ddr. Much like beat saber allows me to do why cant I practice the one part that is getting me until I master the movements or build up the muscle memory. Right when you said it I was like damn straight what a missed opportunity.
Matt Latstetter
2019-04-21 09:21:29 +0000 UTCThanks Kole I managed to figure it out. I am a bit tech challenged. How do I find the slack thing you guys talk about where you can talk to others. Is there an app I need ?
Luciano Marrai
2019-04-17 15:20:43 +0000 UTCHi Luciano! The best way to get the episodes onto your phone is to use the private RSS feed that Patreon generates. You can find the directions for how to do that here: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/23742993">https://www.patreon.com/posts/23742993</a> If you've already tried that, please give me more information and I will do my best to help. - KR
Duckfeed.tv
2019-04-17 04:28:38 +0000 UTCCan you download these episodes from the private feed to a phobe? Doesn't seem to working for me like other podcast.
Luciano Marrai
2019-04-16 21:02:35 +0000 UTCI found the overall skill curve steeper in this but at the same time once it's mastered I've found I can breeze thru the bosses easier than in dark souls. It's clearly very different for everyone tho and not sure what they can do with that. I totally agree that "easy-er" options wouldn't hurt the game in the slightest to anyone who prefers to suffer! Love your work guys, looking forward to next episode
Nick Hunter
2019-04-14 22:14:14 +0000 UTCGuts has never been directly referenced in the story. I doubt they'd start now
Nick Hunter
2019-04-14 22:10:37 +0000 UTCThat feeling of “glad that’s over.” after beating a boss is why, after a certain point, I just said eff it, setup a speed hack mod, blew past the boss fights and had a much more fun time playing the game to completion.
WolfLotus
2019-04-13 19:30:27 +0000 UTCThe rhythm of playing through the game in tandem with BFSC. Being able to do this again brings joy. Many thanks for what you guys do.
Lasard
2019-04-12 14:32:10 +0000 UTCI've said it before, but I think you guys are doing your best work. You have been absolutely killing it lately.
Adam Bucceri
2019-04-11 14:49:51 +0000 UTCIt seems like there's more Lone Wolf and Cub in it to me, but I don't know that series very well.
Duckfeed.tv
2019-04-11 12:30:17 +0000 UTCYeah you guys feel the game is unfairly difficult and thaf puts a damper on everything else. I significantly disagree not because i like the difficulty but i suppose i just dont really notice the difficulty and still enjoy the boss fights. But you guys have been feeling this way for awhile now and im still watching so it must not bother me as much as you think it bothers others. People disagree sometimes, doesnt need to be vile.
Jessie joy
2019-04-11 02:52:25 +0000 UTCPs. Im surprised you guys didnt talk about how owl taking in kiddie wolf is comparable to guts being taken in by his adopted mercenary pops.
Jessie joy
2019-04-11 02:43:32 +0000 UTCSpecifically, the inordinately difficult boss fights get in the way of enjoying otherwise fantastic levels, fun stealth, and really satisfying combat. That's roughly how we feel. - K
Duckfeed.tv
2019-04-11 01:55:06 +0000 UTCSo in short it seems like you just don’t like how hard Sekiro is and the rest of the game is good. Right? I don’t mean that as a diss either
Jessie joy
2019-04-11 01:22:26 +0000 UTCAt the end of the season we are, doing 1 or 2 episodes, depending on how many we get.
Duckfeed.tv
2019-04-08 18:48:43 +0000 UTCAre you doing listener responses at all this season? I've got a verrrrry specific take on a certain area and questline which ties into the whole difficulty discourse and I doubt anybody else would care about it. If not it's cool. Keep up the good work. Corrupted Monk eat my whole ass
Paul
2019-04-08 17:32:47 +0000 UTCSo excited for this season. I love Sekiro to bits, but there are so many decisions in it that I find absolutely baffling. Equally psyched to hear you guys rave about the awesome stuff and sigh heavily about the frustrating stuff.
Eric Nagurney
2019-04-08 13:48:09 +0000 UTCSo happy you guys brought this back! So the world might be mended.
Tanner Wolff
2019-04-08 11:45:33 +0000 UTCPerfect timing. I just finished my first run through the game, and went to see if anything was posted yet! Excited to listen
James Bower
2019-04-07 22:11:06 +0000 UTCThis may be the first time (as I was a latecomer to Bonfireside Chat) that I’m well ahead of a season so I won’t have to wait to listen to an episode because I’m not there yet. 👍🏻
JJ Mahoney
2019-04-07 20:18:53 +0000 UTC
