Bonfireside Chat 235: Carian Study Hall, Inverted
Added 2022-11-13 16:54:18 +0000 UTCWe have retrieved the sacred treasure of Nokron for Ranni the Witch, completing the first major leg of her quest. As a parting gift, she gives us a strange statue before heading off along the path of an Empyrean. This episode concerns what we do with that statue, and checking in with Ranni's crew to learn more about the fate that was laid out for her, and why she might wish to throw it off.
Comments
I had my own version of the floor is ceiling. Take a mirror and hold it under your chin, and you walk on the ceiling. It was so fun that my siblings all joined me.
Jacob Olson
2025-03-16 02:59:32 +0000 UTCI'm sorry but Gary drives me crazy. The piddia theory "isn't well evidenced and it's head cannon" but ranni definitely didn't know godwyn would die. Like personal theories are cool to have, you should respect the ones that other people have if you're going to come out with some nonsense like that.
Justin
2023-09-15 15:01:47 +0000 UTCI really think you're wrong about ranni. Kole summed it up perfectly with the live grenade example just imo. Ranni doesn't need a motivation, she is pragmatic. The rune would normally kill body and soul, it was split somehow and only killed rannis body. It makes perfect sense to me that someone's soul had to die in place of rannis. If you disagree that's cool but it's not supported anywhere. Marikas connection to the black knives is that they are both Numen. Ranni is much more closely tied to them
Justin
2023-09-15 14:50:37 +0000 UTCI don't think she really felt anything about godwyn. I think that like you said, she split the rune because she wanted only her body to die. I think that logistically if she wanted her body to die, someone's soul had to die at the same time. That's how she was able to "hack" the rune. If she didn't have godwyn to sacrifice she would have died flat out. Just my opinion tho
Justin
2023-09-15 14:34:48 +0000 UTCHey guys! Love the podcast. I would say Ranni actually fully intended to kill Godwin’s soul and killer her own body. She split the curse mark in half and used half to kill Godwin’s soul, and half to kill her own body. She is an Emperyion and her physical body is tied to the Greater Will, hence why she get a a shadow, Blaidd, who serves her as long as she serves the Greater Will. I believe Ranni wanted to kill her physical body to sever her connection t the Greater Will. That’s why she also kills her Two Fingers later. That’s her last connection to it. Godwyn, I attribute to wanting revenge against Marika. She blames Marika and Radagon for breaking her Mother’s heart. Ere go, these God’s have human motivations like revenge for Radagon abandoning Rennala!
Devin Strickland
2023-07-25 16:42:50 +0000 UTCThe “walking on the ceiling game” is absolutely a thing and I played it with a mirror
Deanna Kerry
2023-03-30 21:09:13 +0000 UTC"The Floor is the Ceiling" was definitely a thing, but the absolute tone shift in response had me wheezing
Kyle Knapp
2023-03-03 16:45:31 +0000 UTCneed a “The Floor is the Ceiling” Abject Suffering
Patric Fallon
2022-12-14 00:26:46 +0000 UTCunexpected guppy energy
Pondo Vyher
2022-12-09 20:25:43 +0000 UTCgod i love it when one podcaster describes something relatable and the other says "what the fuck are you talking about"
Pondo Vyher
2022-12-09 20:25:17 +0000 UTCGood stuff guys!
Joshua Valverde
2022-11-17 22:25:28 +0000 UTCKole has gone too far
gwenny_
2022-11-17 03:44:51 +0000 UTCKole's Game is by far one of the most unhinged things anyone has ever said while trying to gaslight everyone else that its normal. 10/10
gwenny_
2022-11-17 03:44:09 +0000 UTCKole's game is a real whales shamrock kinda situation. If you know you know.
Zaylin
2022-11-17 02:23:51 +0000 UTCKole describing that absolutely fucking bananas game in which he pretended to be on the ceiling while also pretending to be on the floor, while also actually being on the floor was extraordinary.
Corey Hiscocks
2022-11-17 00:07:45 +0000 UTCAnd what about the witch Renna and Seluvis? Ranni takes the form of the Snow Witch in the game, assumedly a puppet version of her. Did Seluvis help to do this for Ranni? And what became of the original Renna? Is it at all possible that it is actually Renna who is at the controls here?
Charlie Frame
2022-11-16 18:31:39 +0000 UTCYup, the Caria Manor area of the game is definitely "Wales" in my mind. Trying to think if other regions have accents. Godrick and Hyetta/Irina have Somerset/West Country accents and I believe they're tangentially related somehow
Charlie Frame
2022-11-16 18:23:51 +0000 UTCWhether or not Ranni wanted to kill him or not, do we know why it was Godfrey specifically who was slain by the black knives?
Charlie Frame
2022-11-16 18:19:53 +0000 UTCGetting the Darkmoon/Moonlight Greatsword at the end of the quest line is just the icing on the cake. It’s my favourite iteration of the iconic weapon and so fun to use. I used it all the way to the endgame after I got it.
John Mair
2022-11-15 20:01:54 +0000 UTCI think the Ranni “sidequest” is my favourite character quest or sidequest in any From game. It takes you to so many interesting places and adds so much to the main storyline. Ranni and her little gang are all very likeable - albeit with Seluvis as the “token evil teammate”. But at least he’s evil in a truly despicable way. One thing I don’t think I’ve heard Gary and Kole comment on is that they all have Welsh accents, which a) is great to hear more Welsh accents in a big video game and b) really helps to give them a sense of identity as a team.
John Mair
2022-11-15 19:51:00 +0000 UTCNever heard of the walking on the ceiling game. I'm with Gary, I was baffled when hearing Kole explain it lol
Gorehoff
2022-11-15 07:15:39 +0000 UTCThat makes sense but I still think I'd rather there be a bit more in the text than an absence this fits inside, if that makes sense. I buy it being an accident though. -GB
Duckfeed.tv
2022-11-14 23:50:09 +0000 UTC(Pt. 2) I would also argue that the Shattering benefitted Ranni, rather than harmed her. There seems to be some confusion as to when the stars were stopped by Radahn, as this action pre-dates the Shattering. Per the Telescope item description: “During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.” Radahn even seems like he was young when he became the bane of the stars, per the Starscourge Greatsword: “Radahn earned considerable renown as the Starscourge in his youth.” The Age of the Erdtree and Radahn’s youth predate the Shattering, meaning Ranni’s fate was locked before she undertook this plot. The chaos of the Shattering certainly helped Ranni in ways that would have been impossible against a united Golden Order. The last time a mostly alone Empyrean tried to fight against the Golden Order it didn’t go well for the Empyrean, and Ranni would have to face down Radahn in his prime specifically in order to progress her plot. The Shattering crippled Radahn and destroyed almost all of the alliances within the Golden Order, changing the potential conflict from being one Empyrean against the entire Order to being one Empyrean amongst many demigods and entities vying for power. She’s far more in the background, while if the Shattering had not happened, she would be the clear-cut enemy for the establishment. While it’s still somewhat in the gray area as far as absolute certainty, I find it unlikely Ranni wasn’t in on the plot to kill Godwyn. Whether or not she knew this would even cause the Shattering is another deal, but once the Shattering started, Ranni benefited from that as well.
Lucas West
2022-11-14 20:13:05 +0000 UTCWell this is way longer than I thought it would Be, but here’s some thoughts regarding Ranni, Godwyn, and the Shattering: Addressing the Cursemark, Ranni, and the Night of Black Knives, I think some focus on the text presented, as well as dialogue and some extra item descriptions will clarify why it seems likely Ranni was involved in the death of Godwyn. As was pointed out already from the Cursemark of Death item description: “This cursemark was carved at the moment of Death of the first demigod, and should have taken the shape of a circle. However, two demigods perished at the same time, breaking the cursemark into two half-wheels.” The item description regarding the Black Knives (the weapon) themselves indicates the Rune of Death was what was stolen, not the Cursemark: “A ritual performed on the oddly misshapen blade imbued it with the power of the stolen Rune of Death.” Ranni herself admits she made these blades, why would she need more than one if she didn’t intend to use them more than once? “I stole a fragment of the Rune of Death, and used it to forge the godslaying black knives through fearsome rite. I did it all.” Being and Empyrean seems tied to one’s body, as Ranni states: “But I would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away. I would not be controlled by that thing.” So Ranni made multiple knives, had the intention of destroying her body to be free of being an Empyrean, and stole a part of the Rune of Death, not the Cursemark. I think it’s fair to assume that had Godwyn or Ranni died individually, they would have received the full cursemark and completely died in body and soul (the item description stated that had they not died at the same time, this would have been the case). I doubt Ranni wanted to fully die physically and spiritually, and her plan to die in just bodily form is completely dependent on the Black Knife Assassins just so happening to use the knives Ranni herself created on another demigod. There is no indication that carving half of the cursemark was ever an option without also killing another demigod, as had Godwyn not died, Ranni would be entirely dead and her plans ruined.
Lucas West
2022-11-14 20:09:26 +0000 UTCas a kid who had to spend way too many boring days going to church, I always let my imagination run wild and I’d imagine Mario from Mario 64 climbing and jumping from the hanging light fixtures and such. so I absolutely also played the walking on the ceiling game as well. it may have been inspired from the level in the PS1 Rugrats game where you do that as Tommy Pickles. at any rate, I absolutely knew what Kole meant as soon as he said it
Karl Germ
2022-11-14 19:36:45 +0000 UTCI also played the 'walking on the ceiling' game as a kid. We had this small square mirror that had a little notch cut out of the middle of one side, so what you would do is place the bridge of your nose in the notch of the mirror so your vision was dominated by a view of the ceiling as you walked around trying to avoid tripping on door frames or having your legs cut off by ceiling fans. :-)
Drew Fleshman
2022-11-14 19:31:06 +0000 UTCI totally did this, but it was Batman and Robin bounding across suburban rooftops
Brian Sorris
2022-11-14 18:41:46 +0000 UTCWe need a community poll about the ceiling game.
Brian Sorris
2022-11-14 18:30:48 +0000 UTCI played that game haha
mwh
2022-11-14 12:57:40 +0000 UTCMe too. Reminds me of the kind of spacial learning I did as a visualizing Mario/Sonic running along guardrails/landscapes on the side of the highway in the back of the car on long trips. Sorry, Gary.
Charles Schillberg
2022-11-14 04:14:16 +0000 UTCIt kind of reminded me of the Forest Temple on Ocarina of Time :)
Zack Voase
2022-11-14 01:17:17 +0000 UTCI played that game! I think it might have been after seeing Labyrinth or something at that time that had flipped ceilings. That said, the reaction had me laugh out loud hahaha.
Rad Adam
2022-11-14 00:38:38 +0000 UTCI never played the upside down room game but my wife and daughter have
Aaron Ketterman
2022-11-13 22:30:39 +0000 UTCI figured that The Prince of Death was either an accidental or necessary byproduct for Ranni to transcend her flesh.
superkeaton
2022-11-13 19:39:36 +0000 UTC
