The Wire 2x07 Full Reaction
Added 2023-07-05 23:31:55 +0000 UTC
Comments
Aj Thanks man I appreciate it. Love you three as well.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-07 17:38:36 +0000 UTCThis thread has devolved into this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEEUmfW0qFQ
Shivering King Banana
2023-07-07 11:47:00 +0000 UTCVivaLaVegas, Love you, too, honey.
Aj
2023-07-07 11:16:22 +0000 UTCAj Ah, well, look who finally crawled out from under their rock. Your insults are as weak as your pathetic attempts at being clever. At least put some soul and effort in it. I won't mind it tbh. Hopefully it will make me laugh as well. I've seen napkins having more originality than you. Stick to what you know, which clearly isn't much. It's a pity that shutting up won't make you any less of a disappointment. But hey, if silence is golden, you must be the poorest soul on Earth. Keep it up, impressing us all with your talent for wasting oxygen.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-07 09:49:17 +0000 UTCVivasvan, Classy. But to be expected from your ilk.
Aj
2023-07-07 08:17:43 +0000 UTCAlways appreciate your thoughtful and eloquent replies to me Lil Don075, glad we have Americans like you who are happy to discuss real issues impacting citizens in a nuanced and thoughtful way
space1999
2023-07-07 04:20:31 +0000 UTCspace1999 stfu you moron
Lil Don075
2023-07-07 04:06:55 +0000 UTCAj Ah then don't make that mistake ever again. Get better at gauging people like me you sorry excuse of a human being.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-07 02:29:35 +0000 UTC@A and @Stephen People have done PhD thesis on AA. There is data that UCLA has published that AA has indeed worked for minorities and increased representation. Wall street journal covered a story on their youtube channel using same data. A reasonable person may think aa is injustice, but that's why they are reasonable person. Their opinion cannot and should not matter than someone who has written phd thesis on affirmative action or who has studied it for decades with help of data. While conducting research during phd one has to find anything and everything that goes against their proposal. Its not about finding that fits our cognitive bias. We have to look for answers that contradicts our beliefs. So i think person who has done research on aa at university level and has published it, is more qualified to speak than a person walking down street. In any case,opinion based upon ignorance, lack of information on a topic can never be equal to opinion based upon informed, learned and empirically verified data on same topic. Btw You know? Open heart surgery was invented by a black person. You may have heard name of Alan Turing. Father of modern AI. he was a gay man. He was the person who had played a very important role in defeat of nazi Germany during WWII. How was he rewarded for it by British government and society? Death penalty. Just because he was gay. I am just letting you know that there are exceptionally talented people in marginalized community. Without aa they won't be able to come forward. Also there's a book "mediocre" by Ijeoma Oluo if you want to read how institutionalised racism affects a black person in America. 300 pages book. How it keeps out "deserving" black person out of college and instead facilitates white males to enter in college. Its super digestible, based on data, facts. Whether those facts will make a change of heart in you Stephen, I cannot say. It sure did improve my understanding of aa.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-07 02:21:10 +0000 UTCI appreciate your legitimately thought out and cordial responses (not trying to sound condescending, people usually don’t talk this politely and eloquently about these things) I agree with you, I want for these things to be strictly meritocratic and for no one to suffer. At least with AA a very small percentage of high end schools (6%) were employing it. Am really worried the direction the country continues to go in more and more. If things like reparations for slavery and black and brown suffering aren’t gonna happen then I hope people smarter than me can find a way to protect POC and give them opportunities that can increase their wealth and general well-being.
space1999
2023-07-06 23:14:11 +0000 UTCWhen Frank was talking about there not being a place for his sons on the waterfront he wasn't talking about legacy, he was saying "this is all we have and it's disappearing before my eyes" so in short, he doesn't see a future for his family and community. The docks are their lifeline.
Tom
2023-07-06 23:06:03 +0000 UTCMy point about aa being a wrong is that it doesn't matter what you or I think of it. The people negatively effected by it will view it as bigotry. You're right about everything but it doesn't change the fact that people are getting rejected for their race. You can't expect a reasonable person to be happy about that.
Shivering King Banana
2023-07-06 23:04:00 +0000 UTCI appreciate your candor and concern for people’s well-being, it is really scary to see this bitterness. I think where we disagree is about affirmative action being “a wrong”. Absolutely agree that public schooling being underfunded is a primary reason for lack of minorities in high end colleges (I mean Ivy League is only 8 schools) but I think there are a lot more disadvantages than this that people of color face that make even reaching college or graduating with a degree of any kind significantly harder. White people as a whole are doing more than fine and those students are able to get into other high end schools I think if Legacy admissions were removed we’d see more opportunities for white students (really all students) who actually earned their way in. Black and brown minorities just need the help, they have less than 15% of the mean wealth and median wealth that white Americans have with significantly more obstacles and fewer opportunities to acquire it. The country is already against them in so many ways and they have little to no power to influence law or business in a way that will protect them and their rights.
space1999
2023-07-06 22:58:23 +0000 UTCSo true! I think this is one of my favorite aspects about the character writing! Like the show isn’t afraid to have it’s more likable or protagonistic characters do and say things that negatively impact others. Do you have any other characters who especially stand out to you as morally ambiguous?
space1999
2023-07-06 22:47:49 +0000 UTCOne wrong doesn't justify the other. The path to equality isn't inequality in the name of equity but it starts from the ground up. If funding for public schools go up I guarantee that will correlate to an increase of minorities in Ivy league colleges. I know AA does have a lot of benefits but the bitterness I see it create is very dangerous and shouldn't be ignored. The vast majority of white people aren't on the legacy admissions list. If their hard work is passed over because they're the wrong color they'll feel the same way any person of any color would.
Shivering King Banana
2023-07-06 22:45:25 +0000 UTCbro knows what Amber heard ☝️
V
2023-07-06 22:34:06 +0000 UTCSaw this, at the end of the day White Americans aren’t the victims. Would be curious to see the numbers for how impacted Asian applicants have been by legacy admissions (white people’s version of affirmative action that they literally don’t need). Affirmative action was easier to take down than Legacy will ever be
space1999
2023-07-06 22:32:08 +0000 UTCMost people have probably stopped checking the comments by now, but when Lester is trying to convince Daniels to take the detail and gives him the whole "you'll live to regret this" speech, how much of that was Lester trying to twist his arm, as opposed to him making a genuine point? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to suggest that Daniels isn't naive to Lester's ulterior motive (nor is Lester necessarily trying to hide it). I'm just curious as to how much of what Lester is saying at that moment comes from a genuine place.
TeaDrinker3000
2023-07-06 22:28:20 +0000 UTCDude it was a group representing the Asian demographic that sued and caused this. They were hit worse than whites by affirmative action.
Shivering King Banana
2023-07-06 22:24:20 +0000 UTCAlso the non-whites you complained about? Largest demographic there is east Asian and Indian American who make up 20% of the Ivy League and got their on their own merit https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league
space1999
2023-07-06 22:21:33 +0000 UTCI really wanna encourage you to challenge this belief Stephen Comparing education and it’s impact on peoples lives and well being (and that fact that only 6% of high end schools employ affirmative action) to sports isn’t fair Education impacts everyone (unlike athletics) and minorities have significantly less wealth and control of their lives than white Americans. You can read my above comment about history of affirmative action in education and how white Americans still graduate at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate than minorities and have SIGNIFICANTLY more wealth than minorities (meaning more opportunities) and colleges already have legacy admissions which drastically favor putting white people in nice colleges regardless of their academic abilities. Between 25%-35% of Ivy League (these 8 specific schools that use affirmative action because it’s barely used at all) are Legacy Admissions. LARGE majority of them are white. Legacy admissions are also a thing in colleges all over and absolutely favor white Americans by far. It’s their version of affirmative action except they don’t need the help
space1999
2023-07-06 21:54:11 +0000 UTCVivasvan, My mistake, I thought I was discussing things with someone with even a modicum of understanding. I was clearly mistaken.
Aj
2023-07-06 21:50:47 +0000 UTCaffirmative action is backwards and literally racist. should not exist. treat all races equally yes? Isn't that the goal? Should the NFL use affirmative action? Cuz its majority black. What about the olympic sprinting teams? Should we replace the black members with whites because a majority exists? No, we shouldn't. Because its based on merit. End of argument
Stephen
2023-07-06 20:53:33 +0000 UTCAj Hopefully you'll stick to this resolution in future reactions and don't barge in comments and say "you really like to share your political beliefs lol" Cuz you yourself just did it for quite sometime. People will keep propagating their views, I'll do the same. I hope you'll not read them. And if you do, and decide to comment, hopefully next time you'll engage more than this. And Enjoy? I'm loving every second of these discussion and reactions. I wish same for you.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-06 14:18:30 +0000 UTCVivasvan, I'm not interesting in discussing this any further with you, especially when you have no understanding of the finer points and especially not on this site. Enjoy the reaction videos.
Aj
2023-07-06 13:49:45 +0000 UTCAj Again you fail to appreciate and distinguish. Stopping someone from discriminating others is not forcing them to accept others. Discrimination is a negative action. It is undesirable. It causes harm to the person being discriminated against. Your concern about religious sensibility is laughable because you're not showing same concern for the person at receiving end of such discrimination by such devoutly religious person. Sexual orientation is not a choice. It is an inherent part of every human being. Its something a person is born with. And everyone deserves to be treated equally regardless of which gender they feel attracted to or not attracted to any of them at all. They cannot change it and to say to such person I'll not treat you the same as heterosexual person is discrimination. No two ways to go about this. Heterosexuality is a "norm". Norm doesn't need justification. Others that do not follow the norm are as equally valid. It doesn't make them bad person and certainly not being liable to be denied what people with "religious sensibility" will do for heterosexuals without second thought. Its irrational, it's arbitrary. There is no rational nexus between qualification and classification and objective of either of them in treatment towards sexual minorities . There is no need to treat people so unlikely. It has no valid ground to exist. Both irrationality and arbitrariness are antithesis of equality.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-06 13:01:14 +0000 UTCRegardless of your opinion on the ruling the bigger problem is the Supreme Court adjudicating on a CASE THAT DIDN'T EXIST. The supposed victim named denies everything about the case and wasn't involved in the court proceedings at all!
Shivering King Banana
2023-07-06 10:44:44 +0000 UTCLike I said, agree to disagree. I'm all for free speech, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to say what you want to say haha. I'm saying if someone's religious leanings prevent them from doing things for certain people for moral reasons, then they should be allowed to do that, especially if it's their own business and it's not some important or potentially live-saving service they're offering. They should not be forced to do anything for anyone. That's why the black/gay couple distinction is important. Politeness is a secondary concern at that point. For some people, it's impolite to kill animals and eat them, and yet folks still do that. Anyway, say and think what you want about those people, but forcing someone to do something that goes against their sensibilities is out of the question. So, again, you can go back to disliking ''conservatives'' as much as you want.
Aj
2023-07-06 10:39:57 +0000 UTCI fully expect Lola to have a pair of retro cat eye glasses by the end of the show run. Maybe even the type with the chain lol
Luis
2023-07-06 10:15:51 +0000 UTCAj It's not broad casting views, it's freedom of expression. You support human rights, then you have to support our free speech, innit? Also, if someone's religious views can allow them to discriminate against minorities, if that "hurts sensibilities of religious people" whatever that statement means. If that's free speech according to you and no one can force it upon them by law then you're correct. But as polite human beings of modern times it's repulsive behaviour. Consider my free speech. I can say that such persons are repulsive wankbangle unfit to be part of polite society. That’s my free speech. The problem is the people who think “free speech” means they can say or do whatever asinine thing wanders through the echoing, empty spaces of their brains, but nobody else is allowed to challenge it with their own free speech is just next level bending over the back and jumping over the hoops. Cognitive dissonance could be no higher than this. Conservatives love debate, free ideas, unless someone comes challenges their own.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-06 09:45:37 +0000 UTCVivasvan It could be argued, of course. I mean, it's wrong, but it could be argued.
Aj
2023-07-06 08:55:16 +0000 UTCThere's a difference between touching on political topics and doing what you do. Big difference. Even if the show has a certain leaning politically, that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything it preaches and accept that as gospel. I don't. And I say that as someone whose favourite show of all time IS The Wire. No one should be forced to do anything for anyone. No one is being discriminated against, it's just that you can't force someone, especially someone of a religious bent, to bake a cake for you when it attacks their sensibilities. If you can't tell the different between a black couple and a gay couple on that context, then it's a pointless conversation. It seems that those minor, but crucial, distinctions don't matter to you all that much. I care about justice and human rights as much as the next person, and it's not as if I disagree with you about everything, but I'm consistent in my views, and don't feel the need to broadcast them below every Wire reaction video like some folks.. Anyway, this is a fruitless discussion, and bad form on a reaction video like this one, where we're here to enjoy the reactions instead of preach at one another.
Aj
2023-07-06 08:53:47 +0000 UTCAj It could be argued that this is not forcing anyone to support gay rights. It's just forcing them to not discriminate against gays. I mean that's what happened 50 years ago with black people right? "We're not discriminating against black people by not allowing them entry into public schools. Lets them build their own school for black kids and black teachers." is what conservatives said back then too. But That's what segregation is by definition. You don’t HAVE to support gay rights or even like to be around gay people - you just have to treat them the same as a heterosexual couple. No one cares about approval. It is about acceptance. Of course, that's not a distinction that would be drawn by most anyone who is against supporting gay rights, as banning discrimination is equivalent to forcing support in their minds. And Btw, the whole judgment was written hypotechically. No gay couple actually approached that woman. She just challenged on what if premise. In fact another plaintiff even released statement saying that he was made party to the case without informing him. No court staff, no lawyers informed him about case. Apparently Americans are so sue happy that they can sue in anyone's name in 21st century without having locus standi in the case.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-06 08:31:56 +0000 UTCI love how you’re paying to watch The Wire of all things alongside LM (who are always talking about politics) and acting like it’s weird or lesser to talk about the politics both them and the show are preaching. David Simon is incredibly liberal and all about government reform. His shows are literally about how the American gov is a failed experiment that perpetually creates victims Doesn’t seem like you’d be interested in hearing about how gay people are human beings who don’t deserve to be discriminated against for being who they are
space1999
2023-07-06 08:09:32 +0000 UTCYou really like to talk about your political opinions, we get it. lol.
Aj
2023-07-06 07:46:51 +0000 UTCI am becoming more invested in Lola's side quest to an optician than the main plot
Tall Paul
2023-07-06 07:08:26 +0000 UTCecksdee So what bruh? White people were ahead in race. Now people of colour are catching up to you. Your competition is other white dudes and girls. Minorities and people of colour compete among themselves. Likes should be compared with alike. White compete with white Black compete with black Latino compete with latino Asian compete with asians And Indians compete with Indians. Best of white people come to college. And among minorities, likewise best come forward by competing among themselves. That's what affirmative action is. It is meritocratic for minorities too. It is needed because they have been historically backward both socially and educationally, they are historically marginalized. While it is not purely merit, sometimes social capital such as network and connections, sometimes economic capital also come into factor but that's a discretion that university had in place when affirmative action wasn't struck down. They could choose to give a chance to someone based on their personal journey. That's what statement of purpose and letter of recommendations are for. A black person who is first college graduate since his ancestors were brought to America via slavery cannot compete with a white student whose great grandparents were literate, educated or have political connection or were feudal landlords in past. This does not mean that poor white people do not exist. But it does mean that those poor white people have to compete with rich white people to get into university and not some poor black dude who has another hurdle of racism to cross over. You may have 100 complaints with affirmative action, but it works and was good system in place to make people of colour catch up with white people. And if people of colour now started to dominate college spaces, maybe just maybe it was because that white people were mediocre. Oh no! White people can never be mediocre! If people of colour are dominating universities it is because system is rigged!!!!!111 But that's a very very disturbing and uncomfortable fact to accept, isn't it? Not being rewarded for being mediocre. That people of colour are marching ahead, running faster, beating whites in competition. So whites chose to strike down the very thing that enabled this social transformation in first place. Cat is out of the bag my friend and you can only delay the inevitable but not stop it. Edit: also USA is not at the center of universe. There are many many many cases by supreme court of south Africa, India, Nigeria and other democratic countries in which supreme courts have analyzed and laid down principle of affirmative action and social justice much more succinctly than judges of USA. It may benefit your understanding if you try to read them.
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-07-06 06:08:14 +0000 UTCOkay so from the top, I wanna define affirmative action and the important role it serves. Affirmative Action: Affirmative action is defined as a set of procedures designed to; eliminate unlawful discrimination among applicants, remedy the results of such prior discrimination, and prevent such discrimination in the future. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_action You laid out facts. Yes the US is a majority white country. Yes Ivy League Universities hosted populations of 54% non-white American students between 2007-2011. The recently enrolled Harvard class of 2026 is also 60% non-white. I wasn’t talking about Ivy League schools when I typed that because I don't think about them over the majority of schools in the country. I've never gone to college but I absolutely care about people of color being able to receive a degree of any kind. Let’s talk about Ivy League schools though, the number of students at Ivy League schools only amounts to 0.4% of ALL college students in the country. You’re talking about a sample of about 159,000 students every year Historically how many Ivy League students that have graduated throughout history have been white? I honestly can’t answer that, I’ve been unable to find a number. But I do know that Ivy League schools amount to a 96% graduation rate. Affirmative action began for most Ivy League schools in the 1970s. Between 1980 and 2000 the average percentage of students of color in Ivy League schools increased from 15.8 to still only 34.2 percent https://archive.is/TWBzP These 8 esteemed schools have been around since the 1600s. How many thousands of white only graduates do you think came through these schools and all American colleges? People who’s wealth have influenced their families and the country for literally hundreds of years with these schools having (STILL TO THIS DAY) legacy admissions since the 1920s. Applicants with family ties are heavily favored, between 25% and 35% of Ivy league students are legacy admissions. https://admissionsight.com/harvard-legacy-acceptance-rate/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20anywhere,family%20with%20a%20legacy%20status. So now that it’s flipped and more non-white Americans are going to Ivy league schools (again only 0.4% of all schools in the country) I don't feel like this a bad thing. Non-white Americans have been at a disadvantage throughout history and still continue to be to this day. The country is already owned and controlled by white money (most of which comes from these rich people attending these schools). White Americans already have by far the largest median and mean wealth of any demographic with the median and mean wealth of black families being less than 15% of white ones https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/disparities-in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.html I think it's unfair to say something like “will people be happy when whites are only featured in 10% of our most elite schools?. White America isn't suffering and legacy admissions still continue to be a thing to this day which they will continue to benefit from. https://archive.is/RdV23 Only 124 highly selective colleges with smaller student bodies consider race when selecting students. Most students don’t even apply to these schools because they are so incredibly selective. These make up only 6% of ALL 4 year American schools. 62% of white students graduate from college in the US (2.41 million) while less than 41% of black students (452 thousand) and less than 42% of Hispanic students (532 thousand) graduate college. https://research.com/universities-colleges/number-of-college-graduates What is your biggest concern about the future regarding education and Ivy League education for white americans?
space1999
2023-07-06 05:32:14 +0000 UTCGive a rest. When minorities outnumber the white student body for the next 150 years, then you can have an issue.
Saynt Michael
2023-07-06 05:01:35 +0000 UTCThe United States is majority white, how could universities reasonably be expected to be anything other than "predominately white"? This is only true outside of the Ivy League regardless. Affirmative action didn't just allow "more" minorities to enter colleges, it vastly disproportionately enrolled them to the extent that they now outnumber whites in almost exactly the inverse proportion of the national population with the recently enrolled Harvard class of 2026 as a prime example being 60% nonwhite and 40% white. From the years 2007-2011 cumulative enrollments to all Ivy league Universities combined were 46% white and 54% nonwhite with every single nonwhite demographic obviously being far overrepresented relative to their share of the US population. How is that equitable? When will we have achieved total anti-racist victory, when whites compose 10% of our most elite schools? Is 23+% underrepresentation not good enough? You really didn't know that elite colleges are not only not "predominantly white" but the exact opposite before typing this?
ecksdee
2023-07-06 03:25:35 +0000 UTCLove Lola and Milena being so open about Serbia's failings and deficiencies as a country and rightfully calling out the US as fucking crazy for the basic things we lack that many countries including Serbia have. Wasn't aware of the substitute teacher salary being paid by the absent teacher! Literally insane. Like Milena said, The Wire is basically a documentary Just this past week the Supreme Court restricted affirmative action in college admissions, this had allowed more minorities to enter colleges which were and are still predominantly white. Also they just made a ruling that allows businesses to deny service to queer people because they're queer... also they've overturned the constitutional right to abortion... the three Supreme Court justices who swung these votes were picked by Trump Couldn't find information online about past laws or legal changes relating to wire tapping and it's use in drug trafficking investigations vs it's use in human trafficking investigations. I do think in post 9/11 America all FBI resources were being directed towards "threats of terrorism" as they touch in on season 1 with the FBI putting all their high end technology into either these supposed threats or super high end drug busts. I think the federal government’s concerns were mostly around things that they deemed as threats to the American people and in their book for some stupid fucking reason human trafficking didn't fall into the category of serious threats.
space1999
2023-07-06 02:06:59 +0000 UTC![Martin Gunnarsson [ Deerstranger ]](https://samsuka.com/istorage/44146.jpg)
