AUTOPOIESIS (Cybernetics & Systems Theory Ep. 2; Exclusive)
Added 2020-11-11 04:17:00 +0000 UTCThis is Erik and I's second submission to the cybernetics & systems theory series, so be sure to check out Ep. 1 on the public feed before listening here (https://open.spotify.com/episode/1FqV1DOcFsfp9G7Ri4CmSv?si=kZzfS-DJTGarPZ4FqrTMbg).
I'm a little insecure about this release because it's tough to discuss this topic without getting into the jargon of the discipline. If there were parts that were too hasty, alienating, or just boring, let me know. Similarly, if you're particularly interested in a direction that we dropped, you can let me know that to.
In sum, let us know how we did, what's interesting, and where to go. The goal, as always, is to make this accessible and interesting.
If the names are poorly pronounced, they include Latour (actor network theory), Maturana and Varela (biological systems theory) and Niklas Luhmann (social systems theory).
Here's the main book link: https://amzn.to/3kldF1V
Comments
My instinct is that a fractal structure would perhaps imply something more definitive than the theory tries to achieve. I think it might be more accurate to say that what constitutes a system and what type of system it is depends on perspective rather than there being some fractally self-similar ontological structure underlying the, I'm gonna say, system of systems.
Alyn
2023-10-23 03:02:17 +0000 UTC1:11:50 so can you actually make a firm distinction between allopoietic and autopoietic systems or is it just a matter of perspective?
Alyn
2023-10-23 02:49:58 +0000 UTChttps://plasticpills.podbean.com/e/microdose-cybernetics-systems-theory/
Lorna
2023-05-31 09:17:04 +0000 UTCAny word on what happened to the first part of this series?
Hamp
2023-03-03 15:49:19 +0000 UTCI'm late to this party! As a practicing STEMcuck, I think the biologically inspired theory works really nicely. I wonder if there is an analogous atomic-level or string-level metonymy for systems too.. Good stuff.
Miguel de Jesus
2022-06-15 14:56:39 +0000 UTCExtremely interesting, really helping with my ongoing life side quest of understanding D(&G) at least decently. I love how even when you guys say you're sick of politics, you can't help but tie even these type of concepts like this to it. Amazing how right and early Aristotle got it with saying that everything is political.
anacidcommie
2021-04-15 20:08:14 +0000 UTCI'm getting hints of Lecan's Name-of-the-Father as entry into a language system which is not of your choosing or creation...I'm chewing on the potential to incorporate fractal paradigm to autopeotic systems when looking at them at different levels - have you come across Mandelbrot in your systems theory research at all?
Andy Madeley
2020-12-01 12:09:50 +0000 UTCNext one's recorded! I'll try to get it up tomorrow, and monday if not.
Plastic Pills
2020-11-28 19:58:53 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite series so far. I really enjoy the more abstract ideas and just want to listen to more. I look forward to any direction you take.
stephen ruby
2020-11-28 19:53:27 +0000 UTCIf you accidentally end up with a product rather than intentionally it's probably praxis
Plastic Pills
2020-11-18 18:08:23 +0000 UTCHow would actions that produce something fit within your distinction of poiesis and praxis? The example you gave with running is a bit ambiguous in the sense that you're not inherently producing anything by running, other than personal satisfaction caused by the action itself, so undertaking the action as a hobby is seen as praxis. But what about other hobbies, like pottery, were you do end up with a physical object after performing the action? The person may end up with a vase at the end but their purpose was not necessarily to have another vase to add to their collection, but rather to entertain themselves and develop their craft both of which are accomplished by the action itself.
Oliver
2020-11-18 14:54:40 +0000 UTCYea I knew this was gonna be tough, but it's good to have the feedback to know the pace. I assume intelligence on the part of our audience, but there's also a gap between intelligence and arcane terminology; as long as we can get the terminology on lock, I think we can demonstrate the appeal of systems theory.
Plastic Pills
2020-11-17 00:02:40 +0000 UTCI think our next episode is going to have to be just straight up on the concept of closure. It's hard to get, but once you get it, you can't see anything differently (I speak from experience) :D
Plastic Pills
2020-11-17 00:00:15 +0000 UTCThanks for these comments, I'm gonna show them to Erik and we'll plan out the next steps. Love the engagement!
Plastic Pills
2020-11-14 06:51:24 +0000 UTCi really enjoyed the episode. this was the first one where i took notes, and so i'm not sure if i found it difficult because of the subject matter, the presentation, or just because i didn't let anything get past me this time.. i did do a lot of pausing, re-listening, and looking up some stuff. but that's going to happen in a philosophy podcast. listening is tough, especially during the first 40ish dense didactic minutes but it followed a good structure - introduction, etymology, history, extra definitions and introduction of nuance, and then playing with more concrete applications. it was well done, and i did really enjoy hearing systems theory perspectives applied to various things in the last half hour. that wouldn't have been possible without the first half.
wermy
2020-11-13 15:53:17 +0000 UTCAlright! I listened to it start to end. It's an amazing group meditation (medication?) on autopoiesis. I would like to hear a discussion of "Steps to an ecology of mind", and perhaps Hartmanns "New ways of ontology". Those were hard for me to get my head around, and I'm sure you could illuminate them a bit :-)
Theis Egeberg
2020-11-13 15:34:12 +0000 UTCAfter looking into ANT more and finding learning about postcritique, I thought that might be something for maybe lit vic to talk about? i'd love to hear it
wermy
2020-11-13 13:48:29 +0000 UTCCould you talk more about closed and open-ness in energetics, information and organization more next time?
Praful
2020-11-11 22:56:47 +0000 UTCI got into this podcast for the Deleuze talks. I got into Deleuze for his ontology. I understand his ontology as a sort of immanent cybernetics as in the a sort of rhizomatic Conway's game of life. Where the cybernetic aspects of reality as we perceive them is a bit like Deleuze's overcoding. So... I feel a bit like this podcast is the only one made specifically for me... Thanks!
Theis Egeberg
2020-11-11 09:33:20 +0000 UTCUseful episode. Am I right to think Erik is going the way of McLuhan, Castell, and Capra?
Wayne Ha
2020-11-11 05:56:15 +0000 UTC
