Pill Pod 145 - Metamodernism is Just Bad (ft. Diego Ruzzarin)
Added 2023-11-04 01:21:45 +0000 UTCPostmodernism has fallen. All hail the new dumbuy cult: METAMODERNISM.
We took its FRESH NEW RADICAL academic wing out for a spin, as seen in this book: https://amzn.to/3So0kKH.
Comments
B A S E D !
zolo
2023-11-14 03:39:23 +0000 UTCFloating products are the postmodern gods (creations the bodies of creators). What chronologically follows will be decided only by the next seismic theological shift
Alex B
2023-11-12 07:58:20 +0000 UTCHey Liz, Lol. Fair points all around, but no it's not a new direction. Although we could have went around the circle and all said something positive about the bold, fresh, new, hot, unprecedented, renewal proposed by "the movement", as it was a public episode I want to do my part in inoculating against anyone taking this seriously. I've been asked about it a lot, I don't want to be asked about it again, and worst case I don't want to being arguing with a bunch of 20 year-old metamodernist zealot disciples on the internet for the next 10 years if this gets traction after a bunch of intellectual influencers get converted to the cause. Best case scenario is that a few people bookmark the ep and drop into whichever discords and reddit threads these people are inevitably going to use to proselytize. I've heard they are already starting a journal and working on "movement-building" their different sects so I don't think we've heard the end of it... It would be called poisoning the well except the well IS poisoned so that is why we didn't say "well there is SOME water in there too..."
Plastic Pills
2023-11-09 23:18:35 +0000 UTCWow. This was just a lot of shitting on the whole meta-modernism endeavor, but no real discussion of it. Funny that you mentioned “the snobbish intellectual left” because this is by the far the smuggest I’ve ever heard you guys be. As a sociologist, I will not touch meta-modernism, because I also think it’s reductive nonsense. But I don’t listen to this podcast to just hear you shit on something for an hour and a half. I would have loved to hear you actually discuss some of the tenants of the position. Really hope this isn’t the direction you all continue in.
Liz Harris
2023-11-09 22:27:32 +0000 UTCOkay wtf was with Erik saying he wanted to see Diego and his wife so bad???
Ashley H
2023-11-08 18:45:35 +0000 UTCI came so close to falling for the nordic metamoderna stuff a few years back. I guess I'm lucky I didn't have the time for it
Jonas Ludvigsen
2023-11-08 10:42:20 +0000 UTCLooks like you're starting to win him over
Alyn
2023-11-08 01:53:00 +0000 UTCName three of his songs 😆. Nah but really, what would you recommend to read/watch/listen to of Mr. Wilbur's? He "came across my desk" a couple years ago, and faded away just as quickly. First time I'd heard his name here since that time.
ageOfBumFires
2023-11-07 22:55:23 +0000 UTCHey😀
Plastic Pills
2023-11-07 00:20:17 +0000 UTCThey were talking about the arts, not academic philosophy. Hope that helps
Naughty Kitten
2023-11-06 23:21:14 +0000 UTCThis was massively entertaining (since I also actually read this book, wanting to know "what the hell metamodernism is supposed to be") - and you also doing Luhmann made me cave in to do this patreon stuff. I did already post on youtube, but, heck, if I take this book at face-value, the image it paints of US-academia (I'm not from the US) is a gloom one, both because of the whole "postmodernism is this strange chimera emerging of readers instead of actually reading the books"-notion (which has amazing compatibility with Peterson et al.'s strawman, I want to note) and because of this overt grandstanding, the "trying to pitch a product"-style instead of just writing a plausible argument based in modest prose. A friend of mine (who does an MA right now in the US) wrote in the same way, with all this claiming of originality and revolutionary theories - in a seminar paper! - and I asked if you teach guys over there to bullshit as part of the curriculum or if he was just emulating what he thought academics are supposed to write like... P.S.: Although I don't seem to find the time to read more of it lately, Eric Hayot's Humanist Reason seems to be the better recent attempt in the anglophone sphere at addressing the "crisis of the humanities".
morricane
2023-11-06 20:40:02 +0000 UTCKen Wilber rocks
Naughty Kitten
2023-11-06 20:21:30 +0000 UTCHi Pills
Ashley H
2023-11-06 19:35:41 +0000 UTCThanks for the explanation! Great episode btw, interesting and entertaining af as usual
anacidcommie
2023-11-06 19:33:32 +0000 UTCIn grammatology it's even simpler than that, the "text" doesn't contradict itself at some logical level, but just because it keeps vouching for something "non-text" in the medium of text, i.e. speech or the inner voice. That is how he eventually gets to the conclusion that people often lambaste him for, that text is primary to speech, and even the way a literate society speaks is derivative of it's textuality. Socrates might have some deep inner connection to the truth, but if it weren't for the text we'd be indifferent to whatever that's supposed to mean. He goes on later to look at different text-dependencies like the "frame" of an argument, "margins", and even "machine paper". These are conceptual categories to be sure but they're drawn from textual/spatial metaphors that don't make sense in speech without writing.
Plastic Pills
2023-11-06 19:04:49 +0000 UTCBTW Pills, don't yell at me, but when you said how Derrida "finds that there is an oppositional binary at key points in the text" and how "texts contradict themselves internally", does this imply that deconstruction is a Hegelian process? Do the contradictions result in some sort of negation of a text's reading? Or is differance key here, that the contradictions stay as they are, existing side by side without sublation?
anacidcommie
2023-11-06 17:47:37 +0000 UTCIt's fascinating how many people need those Archemedian points in order to function in their day-to-day life. Why can't truth be relative and socially constructed? It doesn't mean that reality isn't "real", but that it's far more malleable than most think. And that's a good thing, it means that the status quo isn't all there is, and that something else is possible. This is a case of a need to avoid an encounter with the Real at all costs, which is something this Storm dude definitely does considering how he wants to ignore Lacan. Also, Pills, I;m surprised to hear you criticise authors being interdisciplinary, considering how that describes many of your faves, especially Deleuze and Baudrillard (maybe to a lesser extent). Disciplinary boundaries are arbitrary anyway, and the real world is too complex to be grasped adequately through the lens of one discipline alone. Indeed, one of the main things that drew me to philosophy in general was how the coolest philosophers drew from psychology, sociology, biology, linguistics, literature, history, political science, etc to not only provide richer theories and descriptions of the phenomena they're investigating, built to show how much fun it is to disrespect disciplinary boundaries in general, to not limit yourself intellectually. Not that this gives you a free pass to be taken seriously no matter what you write, but that as long as your forays into other disciplines are well-researched, then all power to you.
anacidcommie
2023-11-06 17:40:30 +0000 UTCAs a male in my 20's I totally would have fell for meta modernism lol. Thankfully you guys are around
Nathan Blazina
2023-11-05 21:30:16 +0000 UTCI know y'all spent the whole episode shitting on the theory side of Metamodernism, but I would still find it interesting to see y'all engage with the political side of things through Hanzi Freinacht and the Listening Soceity/Nordic Ideology books (especially interested in Viktor's opinion around it). I heard mention of him/them being a psy-op but then none of you seemed to have read it or knew anything about it so I'd be curious what you have to say after actually reading some of it. I thought some of the metamodernism stuff around spirituality and ironic sincerity would gel with the stuff Pills has been talking about with Baudrillard and pataphysics and all of the gnosticism stuff but y'all seemed really fixated on the "arrogance" of it all.
Austin Krieger
2023-11-04 23:26:33 +0000 UTCYou're not rocking with Diego?
idlesum
2023-11-04 12:04:34 +0000 UTCyeah, nah
JN
2023-11-04 11:37:10 +0000 UTCPostmetatarsalism. God is dead. The end of history. The cessation of thought? (segway to new agey zen mention) The irony of the new agey, cultist Ken Wilbur utilitarian or spiritual reductionism of Buddhism and or Daosim to a framework of problems and solutions is that neither of these deal with problems and solutions, not even with regard to liberation from suffering. This is explicitly cautioned as not Right View or Right Understanding. Both would be more akin to inter-acting with things as something akin to impermanent flows, not as something external, something fixed (i.e. permanent, solid, stable), to solve or something to fix. On the flip side, a non new agey Buddhist approach with actual claims to lineage would be the "engaged Buddhism" of say Plum Village.
ageOfBumFires
2023-11-04 04:34:05 +0000 UTCLESGOO
Leonardo L
2023-11-04 01:24:03 +0000 UTCOh sick. Love Diego
idlesum
2023-11-04 01:22:56 +0000 UTC
