Pill Pod 180 - Primal Economy: The Gift (exclusive)
Added 2024-08-26 03:21:35 +0000 UTCWe move from Durkheim to his nephew, Marcel Mauss and his book The Gift: The Form and Reason for Exchange in Archaic Societies.
Comments
Listening to the second half of the gift, and it would be interesting if you tackle the Prof Richard Seaford book on this, how coin-money changes everything with ex-change (2004 Money and the Early Greek Mind: Homer, Philosophy, Tragedy) The book goes into how coin-money changes how everything works with metaphysics like philosophy, religion, exchange, theater, tragedy etc. Richard Seaford died last year he was a Professor at Greek Literature at the University of Exeter and he was in his 70s. Note he has follow-up books after the 2004 on this hypothesis with more evidence with other cultures such as the Indian subcontinent but that 2004 book from Cambridge University Press covers the concept well enough.
Matthew Theisen
2024-09-03 22:03:50 +0000 UTCKwakiutl
Zachary Manenti
2024-09-02 02:56:45 +0000 UTCjust wanna give a shout out to Erik. I value his contribution here that comes out more on a second listen. Erik is always so good, but understated. And also was kinda glad Victor was MIA and ironically bc he was participating in a ritual of social mobility, climbing in esteem and social status. …
Zachary Manenti
2024-09-01 20:21:50 +0000 UTCu can rent it in YouTube for a few bucks prolly.
Zachary Manenti
2024-08-30 14:51:58 +0000 UTCThe talk of sacrificing possessions to show you have no worries about the future because you are blessed/have mana reminds me of the tictokers that go on about ‘abundance mindset’
Laurence Grant
2024-08-30 10:01:22 +0000 UTCThe intended distinction was between subject/object. Body coordinates, not global. The performative act of one subject destroying or consuming their (and perhaps also their tribe's/society's) most prized possession (an object), meant to convey to another subject, that they are fully "team subject" and (going further conspiratorial fantastical mode) they, the tribe/society, use the ritual/performative as a reminder/remembrance of some evil of the object that is in remission, or is slumming, and that unless such rituals are continued, you get (looks around, motions to surroundings). Idk something like that. It's just a fun thought, something fun to imagine. Not claiming any metaphysical truth or social explanation. Just daydreaming.
ageOfBumFires
2024-08-29 23:23:17 +0000 UTCYour intellectual journey keeps going from strength to strength and I’m extremely here for it. Best wishes to Erik and his phd endeavors!
anacidcommie
2024-08-29 22:49:59 +0000 UTCHow is the other a subject? The subject is that which perceives the other
anacidcommie
2024-08-29 22:48:38 +0000 UTCIt really is a god tier arc isn’t it? Also I love pretty much everything you’ve typed here. If I can find a dubbed/subbed version of L Argent I definitely will watch it, thanks
anacidcommie
2024-08-29 22:47:33 +0000 UTCcongrats Victor!
Sebas
2024-08-27 19:38:40 +0000 UTCReading or learning about the gift economy always makes me think about the things less than familiar dogs have to go through to signal to each other they are chill, just playing, or not a threat.
G. Harrison
2024-08-27 15:43:56 +0000 UTCAnother great episode. Really enjoying these analyses
Matt S
2024-08-27 14:09:05 +0000 UTCWhat’s the status of triadic thought in philosophy? Is it not generally employed or is it often employed?
Jack
2024-08-27 05:58:39 +0000 UTCI read some of the gift this morning and the topic of evil objects is actually covered! It was something about talismans and ornaments but also something of wealth used for exchange. Mauss says it was vital to purchase protection from gods and spirits of the dead not just give gifts.
Jack
2024-08-27 02:06:31 +0000 UTCHas anyone associated the disposal of ones prized possession as a demonstration to the other that they place the subject (the other) over the object (and not any old object, the most prized object)? I would guess this could be/would have been proved by now, unless some claim that people were engaging in something for unconscious reasons. Going further and more conspiratorial, perhaps a ritual of warding off the evil object. A fun thought.
ageOfBumFires
2024-08-27 01:15:22 +0000 UTCsuch an important continuation of your current arc… and in relation to Baudrillard, and preparing for Bataille. Thinking too of Derrida’s book on the Gift and Mauss, where he introduces the notion of ‘counterfeit’ money via Genet’s novel. It’s particular to a counterfeit of the money form. Hope you can speak on that as well. Also, y’all MUST see Bresson’s ‘ L’argent.’ Brilliantly speaks to this question of money in capitalist exchange, I will be very reductive here but: counterfeit money is introduced into circulation by teenage scions of the rich… literally it is all about money as abstracted from any sense of ‘social debt,’ or social obligation, or primitive gift exchange and symbolic transformations of sacrifice. In the capitalist system of high finance debt now is purely economic, & the working class trucker is the scapegoat blamed for the counterfeit ( counterfeit = the crime which is, essentially, to show money has no intrinsic value, that money has value only in relation to the social debt and the accumulation of ‘mana’ or ‘good juju energy vibes karma.’ ) But the working class trucker refuses to be the scapegoat, and through many years of terrible personal loss, and suffering, falling through the cracks of various social processes, in the end, the social fabric is savagely torn by his act of a return to ritual sacrifice. Then he surrenders to the authorities. The debt is paid. Something like that. Very complex profound film. And very much on topic.
Zachary Manenti
2024-08-27 00:46:27 +0000 UTCI think Pearce would like the 3 parts of the gift because he liked triads. Maybe the ground is mana, the relate/correlate is the gift and the reception, and the interpretant is the worthy return. For social democrats, perhaps, welfare is the mana, the gift/reception is state services/citizens, and the return is to continue serving your country.
Jack
2024-08-26 15:07:43 +0000 UTCCongrats to Victor!
Henry Martyn
2024-08-26 14:19:58 +0000 UTCMakes me think of throwing self & children into the sacrificial fire of burnout society. Money as prosthetic desire extends the self, we exchange our selves for money, it is embedded into us, and so forms an artificial collective
Alex B
2024-08-26 10:32:12 +0000 UTCThe starting discussion reminded me of Peirce’s incomplete inference. Durkheim and Mauss might have an incomplete inference because of missing knowledge in their premises. Putting Durkheim beside Peirce has been entertaining me. I’d say Peirce accounts for sociality but I’m not sure if Durkheim accounts for symbols. I don’t know how Durkheim could account for indices such as how the weathercock requires the relate, the ground, and interpretant in Pearce’s system. On to the Capital convo it seems like I could say Capital is a function that reduces value to unity.
Jack
2024-08-26 09:15:46 +0000 UTCCongrats to Dr. lib Vic! Elon musk as the chief that burns his money on twitter for divorced dad mana💀 does social science have a nepotism nephew problem in Mauss and Bernays?
Jack
2024-08-26 09:07:31 +0000 UTCThank you for the work, and congratulations to Victor!
Recoil
2024-08-26 08:11:43 +0000 UTCPsyching!
Kyle Brown
2024-08-26 03:27:05 +0000 UTC
