Pill Pod 161 - The End of Art
Added 2024-03-24 21:20:32 +0000 UTCWe're still on why everything's ending, this time with another pillar of civilization: art, and modern art in particular. Part of the discussion comes from Frederic Jameson's Postmodernism or the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism, the cover of which features a (particularly ugly) Warhol print (https://amzn.to/3PD4M6m). The other two books referenced are The Diary of Andy Warhol and The Philosophy of Andy Warhol, written by the man himself.
Comments
Writing gave us history, the anchors of symbolic enframement mortalised flesh, and voids forever expand leaving nothing to hold on to as they drag us deeper into images where the lag obscures & stimulates self-cannibalism
Alex B
2024-03-30 13:01:39 +0000 UTCComparing joyce to warhol isnt accurate in my opinion. Joyce actually cared about his work and put a lot of effort into them. He wasnt just throwing garbage into the world like warhol.
Ichabod
2024-03-29 18:30:31 +0000 UTCA transition PIP object I want to make: a pill filled with a video of a grape growing in the sun and a mushroom growing in the shade (separated by a line) This represents the drink the Greek used to get mad psychedelic but also it has the pill which represents the end of the mystery of tripping. Interestingly enough tripping itself creates this ability to believe in things alot easier; so could the mystery simply reproduce itself in the concoction itself? Pills you might be the personification of the disappearance of self help.
Khemith
2024-03-27 20:54:25 +0000 UTCThis end of series got me so blackpilled. You mean all my favorite things are dead? Lol
Jack
2024-03-27 14:19:32 +0000 UTC1:10:00 you really should take a pilgrimage to the andy warhol museum in Pittsburgh 😆 34:30 is I think the line of the episode. Super clear and concise. On that note, a lot of rambling. I would like to know how long art has been used in the sense of "high skill," from both perspectives, half the objective sense of what the audience admires in the skill, the affect felt by the audience in beholding skill and admiring/aspiring to it, and half the subjective, what is experienced by the one who does soemthing with mastery, the affect felt by the artist in being skillful. For example, when I "tune" a control loop, it has a sense of art to me, it's almost more artistic than mathematic, these a deep sense of satisfaction in arriving at, thru considerable twists and turns, and as if "by feel," one cohesive, robust perfection. "just let the paint be paint." I feel like the only way to truly achieve that ideal is if you uniformly in your waking life "just let everything be itself." What that fuck would that look like lmao. So ban art titles as well? (if already banning artist statements, which I agree with) Question: you've been on this kick of things ending...could you do an equivalent series on things beginning? I know there's no actual dividing line, but simply shining an equivalent light on the beginnings that, lets say "inter-are" with endings, as with the endings? Or that which is beginning less and endless lmao Sick quote of warhol about how his art is deal making, and Trump's admiration of that line. interesting redefinition or application or evolution of "art." How about a throwback? Zazen as art. The art of Zen. The art of sitting quietly and doing nothing. Now we're talking haha Is the secret of art the secret of actual inner fulfilment or affect from art? Like too many images, too many realistic graphics, so no art can stir that in the average individual, hence, no more affect, no more secret, art is ended? I guess usually your useage of secret is it didn't exist in the first place, and I'm saying most people just don't feel anything anymore or for enough time, that there was in art some actual secret that did exist, and it can't manifest any more (insufficient conditions) due to the manifestation of hyper realistic infinite images of literally anything you can think of (AI generation). A way back you had some coverage and I brought up the mandalas Tiberian Buddhists will make with colored sand, super time intensive, beautiful, impermanent art that they'll sweep away. Would like to hear some coverage of art people try desperately to preserve vs art which is ritualistically undone, comes into and out of being. I think that's my favorite form of art, art that's impermanent and not preserved.
ageOfBumFires
2024-03-26 23:34:09 +0000 UTCIt is interesting to hear you broach the subject of the artworld in this series of philosophical “ends”. As someone who has been part of the artworld as both an artist & art critic, the arguments posited here regarding the art market & technical skills are well-beaten paths that tend to loop back onto themselves into cliche. From the Medici to the “Dopesick” Sackler Family, art has always existed as a commodity fetish that accrues value through its contextual setting rather than its desired object. As Pontalis & Laplanche write: “fantasy is not the object of desire, but its setting.” Art is the ultimate fantasy & fetish, especially as a dead object. Although artists have become more aware of the sexual, psychological, economic, political complexities of the social settings in which they make art, they are not intentional agents, but pawns in an art administrative & market mechanism. Artists respond to the social setting they find themselves in, & are propelled forward by the wave of complexities & ultimate consensus that envelope them in the reputational economy of the artworld. Artists are producers. Whether hands-on or hands-off producers, it really doesn’t matter, as long as something is being produced. What they are running from or running to in this obsessive production is a question for the death drive. What is more interesting is the artworld’s migration onto Instagram, where you are presented with another fetishised object that is loved & judged in the physical art object's absence. Warhol & Koons are not representative of the contemporary artworld. They represent rarefied & reified-in-the-modern imagination exemplars that inverted & negated the labour value of American art. Their value is based on surplus value & its immanent enjoyment. Bottom line, the art market is built upon art objects of both the faberge & farcical kind. Never mind the handmade, Koons removes everything, even the handprint on the pristine polish of his reflective surfaces. In Ireland there is no art market or eccentric collectors, but there is an art scene that is publicly funded, which conditions art making in a different way. As an artist who has transitioned many mediums, from painting to film to criticism, it is art’s existential perversity & anxiety as a cultural object that believes it's alive but is in fact dead that keeps me attached & desiring. Contemporary art, like desire, is not something you like, it is a subject that we want to be an object. Art ‘is’ for only a moment, then it becomes an object, & the trouble begins.
James Merrigan
2024-03-25 20:35:02 +0000 UTCAs someone who doesn’t really listen to the Beatles i have to say they definitely came up with a lot of original music ideas! Still hugely inspired by the artists before them
Robert Sherrard
2024-03-25 17:52:31 +0000 UTCI was thinking the same. I have this book in my bookshelf, unread, for a year now. But I remember reading parts of it for a class in Philosophical Perspectives on Modern Art in university, and it seemed like a parallel of a Hegelian end of history to the end of art, but also based on Hegel's aesthetics. I'm really fuzzy on the details right now
Sabataí
2024-03-25 15:28:26 +0000 UTChere’s an example: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=Krv7_V-1UP8&si=rgpU3EZD4KaxIplm
John Stuart Pills
2024-03-25 11:13:08 +0000 UTC37.50 - have you ever listened to music written at the time of the Flemish renaissance? I’ve sung a lot of music by 15th/16th century Flemish composers, and the technical skill involved in creating these works is greater than in any other music I’ve heard or sung. their grasp of counterpoint (the interplay between 2 or more voices) is unmatched. some of the works are ‘giant’ too - Antoine Brumel’s ‘Earthquake’ mass was written for 12 voices, and some works comprise over 30 voices (usually written for significant political events like royal marriages). i wonder what was in the Flemish water at that time…
John Stuart Pills
2024-03-25 11:11:52 +0000 UTCYou guys know Danto? Philosophical Disenfranchisement of Art. Argues art’s history ended with pop art. Says art became philosophy.
Mark Bollettieri
2024-03-25 05:07:20 +0000 UTC
