Pill Pod 171 - Zizek Goes Monarchist
Added 2024-06-11 21:08:00 +0000 UTCWe discuss Zizek's Hegelian defense of a monarchy to solve the problem of democracy.
https://thephilosophicalsalon.com/in-defense-of-hegels-notion-of-monarchy/
Comments
The problem with any kind of democracy whether it features random dice rolling or not is that of capital: this is the Marxist or otherwise radical problem that needs to be addressed. Whether the king is chosen by lot or not, he will always be subject to the will of capital. And not just on a personal level where he will endlessly be lobbied: there’s also the problem that the capitalist machine is bigger than any king. Just like liberal democratic leaders have no control over the global neoliberal machine, so would a random king not have any control. All that said, I am seduced by the idea of a benevolent philosopher king because the masses are simply too ignorant to make the necessary decisions.
anacidcommie
2024-07-11 21:46:26 +0000 UTCReal.
anacidcommie
2024-07-11 21:41:19 +0000 UTCInteresting episode! Honestly, if the quality of options are determined by the king’s “advisers” and the king only functions as a random decision generator (an I, Ching ritual personified in the form of some recognizable everyman- Homer Simpson comes to mind)- then isn’t this just an argument for technocracy? A lot of work is carried by whatever unspecified “process” forms solutions and creates experts. You might as well have a computer, hell even just a random number generator, rather than a king. Power would still be in the hands of the advisors and technocrats. It feels like a self defeating, and weirdly right liberal flavored, argument. The closest analog than comes to mind is the late Roman Republic. Decisions were deferred to the outcomes of omens and civic ritual sacrifices (augurs appointed by the state from a religious priesthood.) The two consuls, who were nominated from the senate, exercised executive power for a year and could veto each other’s decisions. If you replaced the nomination process with a lottery process, and put some element of built in chance based on divination, you’d have what Zizek seems to be going for, Is Zizek is low key conservative?
Isaac Suárez
2024-06-30 07:35:02 +0000 UTCWhat if we used community as a unit for random selection, rather than individuals? They would have been refining their own power organisations on a micro level while out of power, and their interests would be slightly more likely to extend further than personal enrichment, and they'd be a lot more interconnected and grounded in common existence than political parties
Alex B
2024-06-19 11:20:20 +0000 UTCI think the whole article falls apart if you question the premise of a sovereign
Jack
2024-06-15 14:35:00 +0000 UTCReally liked this episode, in that even if the Zizek article fell a little flat and was click baited with "monarch," it was able to serve as a springboard for a spirited (and dare I say energizing/optimistic, until the end bit on "isn't it depressing s dice roll is better thsn what we now have" lol) thought experiment of what could be, of maybe cracking back open possibilities of the future, just the slightest bit. It got me a lil riled up, a lil excited, a little LFG lol. Alright, I'm gonna start cooking in my locale on this, see if I can get this change in at least the neighborhood community nonprofit (chair by random number generator). 54:00 the bringing up of chance here made me think of Deleuzrepetition? I need to revisit that, but could that be tied into a system akin to what is being discussed here (i.e. randomly selected, changing over some set time juror of one "monarchy") 28:45 Pills inadvertantly invoking the movie Idiocracy is chefs kiss, with the Idiotic Monarch being the rightful representative of an Idiotic people. Love it haha. 55:00 Victor on Aristotle selection by lot. My own twist on this idea: selection by lot, but limited to shoppers at Big Lot. 55:50 "you're onto something there (about advantageous to have a stupid monarch). What about child rulers? This was a thing, even in like real real Monarchs. 29:50 the monarch selection being left to chance, random selection. Hell yeah, monarch jury selection. I can dig it. Sorry boss, can't come into work, I've been selected as this months monarch... 37:00 too many individuals pulling in too many directions. This is why I propose a global stay at home strike, where everyone that wants to air a grievance about something stays home, and each person can proclaim what it is their grevance is. You then get a sense of how serious are the grievances (enought to stay home?), and what the grievance is (essentially becomes a global poll on what ppl this is most fucked up, but not necessarily what the ask is or solution, but maybe could be). This and other daydreams of alternate realities. 42:00 to Pills question, this clearly seems to be a stretch of the definition of monarchy, so is there already a term or neologism beyond "one man jury" existing that would have been a better word choice? 50:00 to 51:00 meetings to discuss when we're going to have another meeting to discuss when we're... Lol yup. This happens at my work all the time, and then the project manager who is supposed to take minutes doesn't take minutes, so it's just this gigantic time suck and everyone knows it and everyone says it and yet... We can imagine the end of the world before the end of meetings. New meme unlocked. 52:00 hell yeah shout-out to victor when a shout out is well deserved, "I don't care about democracy in itself I care that it's delivering results and doing what it's supposed to be doing." Democracy worship (as master signifier "sink") is big cringe and typically highly uncritical and therefore participation by this type generally is a big suck. Yeah, it's this glorification and romanticization of something that is boring, tied up on bureaucracy, indecision, gridlock, etc, then falling back on the "even imperfect democracy is better than all other actualized alternatives b.s." I had my taste serving as a democratically elected "official" and it was terrible. The meetings were terrible. The indecision was terrible. One hour for something that could have taken 5 minutes. Orders of magnitude difference across large swathes of experience when making on a board or committee or council does not yield productive problem solving, because almost always individual ideologies and identities come first ahead of a reduction of suffering in the community. Its a grind, a slog, there's nothing romantic about it, it burns people out, and I probably would never consider doing it again. It was a very poor use of time.
ageOfBumFires
2024-06-15 13:04:23 +0000 UTCGlad u tuned into Zizek’s theoretical roll of the die. What’s next from the Slovenian I wonder? That too is somewhat up to chance. It was innaresting. And like ya said, sad…at the end of the future. But even the idiot monarch can’t be totally a dice roll; I think it is presumed that there is an element of chance but still a decision (the human?) has to be made based on the expert’s presentations. It is more like earlier said: an arbitrary-lottery picked jury of one. I wonder though if ya have to pick a new monarch for every decision to be made? Anyway, anything can be gamed, just a matter of time. Like ‘blockchain’ a trustless system. sure. Another idea that was basically developed out of video games and/or role playing. Remember when anti-trumpers were up in arms bc he wants to be a king? I guess in this context there’s worse threats to ‘democracy’ than that. Well, Zizek’s monarch is certainly not royal.
Zachary Manenti
2024-06-15 00:25:12 +0000 UTCI listen with my kid in the car all the time. Especially when I need him to take a nap.
Timothy Kenner
2024-06-14 18:24:04 +0000 UTCMy positive takeaway from the article is I had to do a lot of googling about syllogisms and learned a little. So if the universal is the people and the particular disjunct is either democracy or monarchy let’s choose monarchy because they can make decisions. A performative monarchy at least. What I didn’t get was when he started talking about triads and the gaps between the terms. I came across triadic syllogism where A, B, and C are shown to be equivalent. How can there be gaps between the terms of they are all each other?
Jack
2024-06-14 17:52:30 +0000 UTCThankfully, they stop after seven minutes
Clayne Zollinger III
2024-06-14 15:19:21 +0000 UTCI, for one, welcome our new dice overlords.
Zadine Lenin
2024-06-13 09:22:58 +0000 UTCbro wtf the bips are awful im not listening to this
Atelier Minceur
2024-06-12 20:37:20 +0000 UTCwhy the bleep it’s cringe and stupid lol
Atelier Minceur
2024-06-12 20:36:49 +0000 UTCHe was always a very smart troll. Even when taking some dog shit opinions, he still manages to hide some pearl of wisdom deep inside the shit. I just hate that he makes me take a poop bath to get to that tiny pearl.
Sabataí
2024-06-12 20:10:45 +0000 UTCsurely the patrons deserve to hear the swears
Vic
2024-06-12 11:11:11 +0000 UTCZizek seduced us again.
Khemith
2024-06-12 07:39:40 +0000 UTCThat bleep sound is so annoying. Damn.
Clayne Zollinger III
2024-06-11 23:16:27 +0000 UTCZizek's politics lately are just... leaving me scratching my head, constantly.
Matthew B.
2024-06-11 22:19:30 +0000 UTC
