THE BATMAN vs. THE DARK KNIGHT
Added 2022-04-27 05:10:21 +0000 UTCI watched The Batman again, and I gotta say....it's still flawed as hell, but I really like it. Artistically it is the closest a live action Batman has gotten, to matching my ideal version. I think overall, I prefer it to The Dark Knight, which I'm sure is a controversial opinion to some. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. What do you guys think? All a matter of opinion of course.
Comments
My point is that dark comic stories can get away with a lot on paper or in animation that live action just can't for me. They're like the Disney live action remakes except better made.
Wolfman Brandon
2022-04-29 20:43:47 +0000 UTCI have to disagree with this....some comic books were goofy, but not Batman (Detective Comics) 1939. Batman started out being very dark (he even killed a thug in the first issue) but, fearing censorship, went to a lighter (juvenile) tone in the 1950s and 60s. The 1966 show reflects this change and I somewhat resent it for that. Batman's darkness made a huge comeback in the 1970s (largely due to Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams, who introduced Ra's al Ghul)...this period had some of the most fascinating and darkest entries in the Batman canon. I like my Batmans to reflect these comics and the comics from 1940.
Michael Smith
2022-04-29 20:15:00 +0000 UTCI feel like we are of one mind when I read this. I really do agree with the majority of what you say here, and you put it beautifully. I do think that individual aspects of TDK are greater, like the joker, as example....but as a world, as a mood....The Batman hands down. You nailed the Christian Bale thing too. I've been thinking a lot about just the character of Batman, mainly because I dont really care for him too much. But what you say here is more or less where my mind has gone in regards to the portrayal of the character overtime
Deepfocuslens
2022-04-28 20:28:42 +0000 UTCI’m going to have to go with The Batman. For all the various iterations, no live-action film has ever really delved into the character of Batman himself. Not even the Nolan films, least of all The Dark Knight. In that film, Bruce Wayne isn’t even given an arc. As Christian Bale plays him, he’s something of a cypher—a forlorn do-gooder committed to nothing but his duties as Batman. While that may be true to the character, the underlying pathology that drives it is never examined. It’s merely given lip service with an offhand comment by his love interest. There’s a big reason why, over the course of the film, Batman tends to get lost in the proceedings. It’s not just because there’s a monumental villain present to steal the show. It’s also because Bale’s austere, inward performance comes off as, well, dull. The Batman, on the other hand, dares to take a good hard look at who the character is. All the underlying darkness that the Nolan trilogy merely alludes to—the ruthless, rage-filled brutality behind his crime-fighting; the broken, hollowed out shell of a man defined by tragedy; the masked persona that’s truer to who he is as a person—is out front and center and given full attention. This Batman is not yet a superhero, but rather a seething vigilante who, night by night, acts out his dark hatred of criminals. He hasn’t yet figured out who he is, or reached his full potential. Stealth and aerial flight are not part of his skill set; he’s all brute force. But he’s also highly intuitive and, for the first time in the live-action filmverse, presented as an able detective. I’m still not entirely sure that Robert Pattinson is the right man for the job. Bruce Wayne is supposed to be at once an intimidating bruiser and a lost boy of privilege, and while Pattinson nails the latter quality I don’t think he can ever attain the former (only Bale has been able to do both). Like a lot of people have said, he makes for a better Robin. Despite that, he manages to convey a gloomy magnetism, as well as the darker aspects of Bruce’s nature. He makes you believe—and understand—that Bruce can only truly be who he is when he’s Batman. As for the film itself, it’s a dark, overstuffed noir pastiche of other works. It borrows fairly liberally from Se7en, Saw, Chinatown, and even The Dark Knight, among others. That doesn’t make it particularly original, but I will say that what’s presented is more fitting to the world of Batman than Nolan’s urban landscape. I wish it provided villains that matched the mesmerizing psychotic grandeur of Heath Ledger’s Joker, but in abiding with the pastiche nature of the film we instead get Paul Dano’s Riddler, who’s a combination of Se7en’s John Doe, the Zodiac Killer, and every nerdy incel stereotype. Dano brings some chilling pathos to the role, but there’s no escaping the fact that we’ve seen this character before (Dano’s even played that type of character before). I also wished that the two plot lines dovetailed a little more elegantly with each other than they do, all the more so that we can be spared having to watch two climaxes, especially one that does not fit so neatly into the rest of the film (it’s too grandiose for what is otherwise a serial killer noir). It makes the movie run on way too long. But overall, despite all its flaws, this is the Batman film I’ve been waiting for. The truth about Batman is that, despite his heroism, he’s just as crazy as the villains he fights, if not more so. This is the first film to truly show that.
Bennett Oliver
2022-04-28 18:22:55 +0000 UTCAgree with you on most of your points, especially Pattinson's physical stature, which I mention would work more as a Robin character. And I also was disappointed by the Batmobile - speaks to a sense of nostalgia there, which seems silly - that Batman would want a "throwback to the Batman from back in the day!" More I think about it, the more ridiculous it seems. To much of this picture is a patchwork of better films that came before.
Atticus Xey
2022-04-27 22:00:07 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the first two hours of this immensely, although I agree that Pattinson doesn't have the physical presence of Batman (in fact he might work better as a Robin character). The final act though felt tacked on after running through their best ideas, then becomes derivative of Seven, then tanks itself into a questionable, uninspired conclusion. I loathed the Riddler (in fact truth be told prefer Jim Carrey's campy performance in Batman Forever to this Kevin Spacey / David Fincher wannabe), and groaned as that aspect of it ended in the image of a crying incel. I do appreciate atmosphere, and loved the minimalistic soundtrack. But to me, it just felt it lost its way.
Atticus Xey
2022-04-27 21:54:09 +0000 UTCI do think the dread and tension is certainly better in The Batman. But a lot of that has to do with Ledger, in my view. I struggled with a lot in both, don't get me wrong. One just satisfies my taste more overall. Unfortunate that The Batman didn't have anything as interesting as The Joker in it.
Deepfocuslens
2022-04-27 21:20:54 +0000 UTCSee...I used to agree with you. the big chase sequence in TDK I always preferred. But I watched it again, right after seeing the chase in The Batman. For me...it's just too Nolan, and not enough Batman. It's very well choreographed in the ways only Nolan can do. But...tonally, The Batman was way more what I wanted. It felt more personal. Less conceptual/
Deepfocuslens
2022-04-27 21:19:47 +0000 UTCI prefer The Batman’s darker version of Gotham to the Dark Knight’s, but that’s about it. I don’t find Robert Pattinson to be a very convincing Bruce Wayne. The reason most men don’t is because he’s just too skinny. Women don’t really notice this because all men are intimidating. But if any man is ever able to look at Bruce Wayne and think to themselves “yeah I could probably take em”, that’s not Bruce Wayne, regardless of how good the performance is. This wouldn’t bug me so much if the movie gave some sort of explanation for how he learned to fight, but we don’t get that. I realize the Dark Knight had an entire previous movie to set this up, but they could have at least hinted at something for our imaginations to latch onto. I don’t feel like I really need to make an argument for why the Dark Knight has superior versions of both Alfred and Gordon. And I really don’t need to make an argument for why the antagonists are better, but I will anyways. I see Riddler as a criminal genius that would get away with all of his crimes if not for a mental tick linked to his ego that forces him to always leave a clue for Batman. They could have done a lot with this character but instead we just get a reskinned zodiac killer with a modern twist to maintain the illusion of realism. Also, I’m probably the only person here who cares about this, but The Batman’s Batmobile sucks. It appears to be a 70’s muscle car, probably a barracuda, with a body kit and an obnoxious V10 engine mounted on the back. Batman can do better than this. It’s like some sort of monstrosity that a redneck would build and leave in their front yard to gather rust. Yeah, the Tumbler was kind of stupid looking but at least it had its own unique design and gave the impression that it was a high-tech piece of equipment that only a billionaire would be able to afford.
Hart
2022-04-27 20:34:42 +0000 UTCI read somewhere that a cameraman died while filming those stunts.
Michael Smith
2022-04-27 14:46:49 +0000 UTCI would claim that the batcylce scene is one of the greatest action sequences (one of the greatest sequences) of any film, period. Sometimes I have to take a second look and say "did they really crash a helicopter?" -- I think it's cgi but it looks so real.
Michael Smith
2022-04-27 14:41:00 +0000 UTCBetween the two, I prefer the The Dark Knight. I was very mixed on The Batman when I saw it in theaters, most of my issues coming from the second half. Literally, once the Wayne family secret was revealed the movie began taking a downward spiral for me. I also re-watched it recently and actually enjoyed it more while still acknowledging the numerous narrative issues, in particular The Riddler's big surprise at the end and the entire movie feeling like a whole season of television being crammed into 3 hours. I wasn't as bothered by those issues this time around and kind of appreciated how this Gotham more than any Batman movie feels like a real place. Also Paul Dano's performance wasn't as bad this time around but it still isn't good. His scene with the Joker still makes me cringe.
Stephen
2022-04-27 11:11:12 +0000 UTCAgreed. It's a good movie. I still like the Nolan films best.
Ryan
2022-04-27 10:23:26 +0000 UTCThe Dark Knight has to be on the short list of movies in which one performance just elevates the whole thing to a higher level. It’s so incredible what Ledger creates with the Joker. I also think The Dark Knight has the best action sequence of the two movies with the police van/18-wheeler/Batcycle scene. But I like The Batman a lot and was impressed with all the main actors and how they shaped their roles.
Jim Barnes
2022-04-27 08:58:53 +0000 UTCI thought the main weakness of The Batman was that the mob subplot took away from the sense of dread that the Riddler held over the city early in the film. The Dark Knight obviously is much better at that sense of dread/tension. But other than that I think I prefer The Batman in every way.
Jackson Littlewood
2022-04-27 08:10:39 +0000 UTCI was really disappointed with The Batman. I think it feels uneven when a film echoes the grimness of a film like Seven but then has such an utterly trite ending. If you’re going as dark as a man trapped with a helmet with hungry rats, then some Hallmark rhetoric about hope isn’t going to cut it. Also this is Gotham. The moment the Riddler declares that we could not possibly know how far the corruption goes - the obvious answer is all the way to the top. That’s no payoff. I almost wanted the opposition candidate to be revealed to be as steeped in corruption, the election a sham. Rather than the revelation that all the obviously corrupt wealthy guys in the film were corrupt. I think my expectations were too high or at least I had the wrong expectations going in. Reading stuff about this focusing on Batman as the World’s Greatest Detective made me look forward to a proper mystery plotted around a smart Batman working it out. Instead it’s like the other films, his detective work is gadget based or just unimpressive. He discovers Cat Woman because she helpfully decides to change from her alias in her room with all the curtains open. That wouldn’t have stumped Dr Watson.
Alan Graham
2022-04-27 07:01:14 +0000 UTCThank you for saying the truth, I didn’t want to be the first to say it hahaha
Jared Angcanan
2022-04-27 05:50:42 +0000 UTCEveryone has their favorite batman, it usually depends on what generation they're from. I do wonder though, does the fervor over the dark knight have to do with the history of batman and it coming at the right time (the first time batman was a drama)? Was it just ledger's performance (and that he died)? Or just self important millennials seeing a comic book movie taken seriously? The film's themes have proven to be prescient in how cynical and nihilistic the culture has become. One thing I've always disagreed with you about is the aesthetic; while I do think that comics lend themselves to animation, there is something beautiful about Nolan's camera work and cinematography in the dark knight; it's like dunkirk with a bat suit. My only gripe with the film is that some of the dialogue (especially with lesser known actors) carries some of that batman begins corniness. Other than that, mucho bueno. I like all the batmans though, live action or animated they bring me back to my childhood, and sometimes the older we get the more childlike we become.
Michael Smith
2022-04-27 05:41:14 +0000 UTCNo, but I'm not bashing them or anything like that. I'm sure they're well made films. I'm just not into comic book films unless they're more like comedies.
Wolfman Brandon
2022-04-27 05:35:57 +0000 UTCOh yeah, I agree with you on the third act, and a tighter story...also one with less silly plot holes. I like Andy Serkis a lot as Alfred, though. But yes, this is the first live action film, where the tone was really working for me a lot. And the artistry of it is pretty magnificent.
Deepfocuslens
2022-04-27 05:30:41 +0000 UTCHave you seen either film?
Deepfocuslens
2022-04-27 05:29:23 +0000 UTCI'll go out on a limb and say the Adam West show and 1966 film are still the best live action Batman works because they embrace the goofiness of the comic book genre. I can't take any superhero movie seriously that tries to be more serious because someone dressing up in a costume to fight crime is silly in and of itself. The self awareness is why I love the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy and the first two Richard Donner Superman films. Otherwise, they're better off in animation where it's more fitting.
Wolfman Brandon
2022-04-27 05:26:26 +0000 UTCI like the look and feel of it over all the others. Gawd, it's long, though. Not sure if Alfred was cast right for me. Creeped dangerously close to woke here and there. The whole flooding thing seemed out of place. But a tighter story on the next one now that the aesthetic is established will be something I really look forward to.
Steven Aguilera
2022-04-27 05:19:23 +0000 UTC
