First Pass of Chapters 90-103 Revisions
Added 2025-02-15 22:34:36 +0000 UTCI've done a first pass trying to address some of people's concerns, in terms of adding development to Liv's relationship with Cade. It's a hefty chunk of chapters; while some people may want to reread it to give feedback, others might prefer a change log.
I'm interested in constructive suggestions from here!
--------------changelog-----------------
90: On the way back to High Hall, Liv observes clusters of students and couples without chaperones, who would be considered scandalous in Whitehill. When Cade picks Liv up, she thinks that it's actually quite nice. Sidonie mentions that he shouldn't be on the second floor. When he kisses her on the forehead before leaving, she remembers their kiss on the first day of school and reaches out for him. The next morning, Thora warns her that people will talk. When Cade gives her a kiss on the cheek before her duel against Anson Fane, she blushes because he's kissed her in public.
92: When Liv speaks up about Cade's word not being suited to dueling, she feels a thrill at sharing that bit of intimate knowledge with him. When Liv asks Cade for a good luck kiss before her match against Celestria Ward, she thinks that college isn't like Whitehill, and no one cares about such things here.
94. When Florence tells Liv that Edith likes Cade, Liv is now surprised at how irritable and jealous it makes her feel.
98. When Liv wonders whether Cade will be leaving the college soon, she realizes that idea bothers her. It is noted that she's considered inviting Cade up to eat on the second floor of high hall, but that Thora objects. When she thinks about how indecent it is to show her legs to men she doesn't know, she thinks that it might, on the other hand, be fun to wear short pants around Cade. Liv now has Wren distract Thora so she can have a dinner alone with cade, and its noted that the wine is not watered, and is stronger than she is used to; the presence of other couples eating on the roof is also added. When Cade touches her thigh, she considers for a moment encouraging him. She now thinks that even if she isn't certain about marriage, she does like him. When she asks him to leave, she now considers that it would only take a word to get him to stay with her. After closing the door, she goes into the bathroom to splash her face with cold water.
101: when Liv feels exposed, its emphasized that its because of so many people she hardly knows. She also considers the difference between Whitehill and Coral Bay, in that no one seems to care.
102: When Cade comes to help tally the team's haul, Liv stretches her legs out to that he can see her bare calves. Thora tries to get Liv to take her to dinner, and Liv says things are different here: every table will be full of unchaperoned couples. She sends Thora off to dinner, thinking she doesn't want the maid waiting upstairs when she comes back at the end of the night. During the dinner, she thinks about how much she's come to enjoy these private meals. Before she invites him into her room, he puts his hand on her thigh again, and this time she doesn't remove it.
103: Thora now mentioned there's a journeyman, in addition to Keri, waiting. When Liv comes out into the sitting room, Sidonie lets slip it was Genne. Thora now says 'I told you so' while helping Liv get dressed. Liv muses that perhaps it's Cade's assumption that he's entitled to go with her that makes her resist the idea. When Liv thinks about how her friends' cloaks are inadequate to the cold, she judges that she can use the waste heat from her spells to keep them all warm. She is especially concerned about Tephania. Liv hopes that she isn't making a mistake by putting her friends in danger.
Comments
Honestly the first 2 sentences had me rolling on the ground. I just can't take ur comment seriously lol
Darastrix
2025-02-20 22:51:28 +0000 UTCThis world is NOT Earth. Therefore Earth IRL relationships do not have transferable expectations. This Kingdom is deeply conservative. The nobility is NOT expected to sleep around unless betrothed and about to marry. If they do, they keep it illicit and under wraps. There should be penalties and a LOT of social stigma for her careless behavior, including a tongue lashing from the Duchess unless author chooses to go really easy on her and edits that away. She is still a ward of the Duchess and is in the high hall through her sponsorship. That comes with expectations of noble conduct. Sure, once she reaches the pinnacle of power, all this doesn't matter much. But she is far away from that.
lenkite
2025-02-20 21:24:29 +0000 UTCAlso she's struggling with the fact that she'll outlast any relationship she has no matter how precious she needs to learn that her insecurity about that may harm others
Eli Loeb
2025-02-17 14:20:19 +0000 UTCOne more thought occurred to me. I think a big part of the problem is that 102 doesn't make it explicit that she is drunk. The new version is better in that it mentions the wine a few times but I think making more explicit in the chapter will cause a very different first reactions amongst readers. We had time to see it as a sober decision so that colored our views making us view her sleeping with him as out of character before we had full context. Alcohol being made a big cause clears it up IMO, but people had already built up the idea it was out of character for her. Which I agree Liv would not have done it sober. If you want to avoid making explicit before it happens I would recommend releasing both chapters at the same time.
Tarrim
2025-02-17 12:55:10 +0000 UTCRegardless of your changes, the core problem remains, that this behavior just doesn't fit into her personality and prior behavior. With the added changes if feel like her now not including cade into her friends will being so happy with him prior, makes no sense at all.
Putrick
2025-02-16 19:58:53 +0000 UTCAlso maybe add a scene where she opens up to her friends about what happened at the bald peak culling. I think if done well it could help explain all their decisions in regards to coming with Liv and her agreeing to take them. That might require another whole chapter before Keri's povs that shows relationships happening around preparations for the king's tide.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 14:27:21 +0000 UTCI haven't gotten around to reading the chapters through yet but maybe add a third date. First one she takes Thora sees the other couples alone, second time leaves Thora and he attempts to initiate sex but fails, third time this mess happens. Explains why she leaves Thora for the second date. Also if the second and third dates are only a couple days apart it helps explain why she hasn't figured out how to respond to his attempt and realizing he believes them engaged already. Particularly if you combine it with being distracted with king's tide preparation to distract her.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 14:11:35 +0000 UTCNot the first time someone says I won't end up like my parent and ends up like them anyway. In the end it was a drunken, young, and aroused decision all of which can make bad decisions seem okay in the moment. She and he both made mistakes and will have to deal with the consequences now. He then tried to force his way into a conversation using something that wasn't true even if he thought it was. Liv was hungover embarrassed and regretting last night so her lashing out is understandable even if more public than that conversation should have been.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 13:55:36 +0000 UTCThanks for the great story! The core issue for me is that as the daughter of a woman who was "ruined" for sleeping with a man out of wedlock, it should have been burned into Liz's brain that an unmarried woman in this culture does not have sex until engagement or marriage. Now she sleeps with him--and then tells him they're not engaged??
Grayson
2025-02-16 07:55:53 +0000 UTCI think the changes are going completely in the wrong direction. You shouldn’t have changed everything that happens before, to justify them sleeping together just because you are fixated on it, you just should have changed Liv refusing to sleep with him and him blowing up about it. The fallout could still be the same with him spreading rumors about her etc. but it would have been way more in character, for a prudish girl with unclear social status, that she is aware of herself. In the end its your story, so you can do whatever you want with it, but it sad to rush a slow-burn story to that degree just for a plot device and you wanting her to have multiple partners. If it had been months or at the end of cades last year at the school it would have been more reasonable, but the changes still dont adress the Main critique, just changes her character way earlier. Also it makes 0 sense that the school allows her friends to leave with her, they all are weaker and younger then her. Up until now I really liked where this story is going, but now it feels like it just is missing what made it great, the characters acting like they really live in a conservative medieval society and the slow-burn
Max
2025-02-16 07:43:11 +0000 UTCI think it’s a bit insane that Liv would allow other humans to follow her to the north, especially considering how weak some of them currently are as far as I can tell. Now I don’t think having some humans coming is a bad thing intact I think it can lead to some interesting developments. However, I think Liv should have only accepted a few of them at most. I think that would make the most sense because she is still mentally not 100% there having to process everything that has just happened. I mean logistically there are some glaring problems. For example we already know that you need northern horses otherwise they will die. Last I checked only 2 people own those is this group. So how in the world are they supposed to make the escape without them when they arrive. Also, when Liv first went I would say she struggled with the environment despite being much stronger than most of the group she is taking now which is a glaring issue for her surely. I mean maybe this is all part of the plan we see Liv making a few poor life decisions back to back and we have a tragic death in the group which is about to completely change how she approaches life. I guess after all is said and done, maybe these past few chapter with the Cade relation ship mishap, followed by another poor decision is a perfect device to make some interesting character development. Heck this is arguably the first time in 36 years that Liv has been given true freedom and mistakes happen. Will be waiting eagerly to see how this all unfolds. Despite not really enjoying the direction of the last few chapters I find all stores have moments I don’t always enjoy. It’s just the way stories often have to go to progress and I continue enjoying the stories either way once these moments pass.
Fraser
2025-02-16 07:23:14 +0000 UTCWell that's the issue though, it wasn't explained very thoroughly. There just hasn't been enough screentime concerning Cade and Liv to see Liv move through the progressions of her emotions. And the new updates just make it seem like Livs been eating an idiot sandwich rather than being the rather considerate person we've known for a 100 chapters.
Seri
2025-02-16 06:35:37 +0000 UTCThe last passage still doesn't quite make sense, Livs had it beat into her about the dangers of the shoals, both by her instructors and personal experience, and now she's just saying okay to Arjun and Tephania? And the entire situation is a bit strange, there's no objection from Liv at all when she's never taken anyone else up north and now in a deeply personal moment she's taking a bunch of people that she just recently met and who clearly don't appreciate where exactly they're going. The sentence about her being able to keep them warm was entirely too flippant and doesn't address why it's okay for them to even go to a sacred place of the eld at this point in time.
Seri
2025-02-16 06:08:42 +0000 UTCAs a daughter who grew up for several years out of an unofficial union and suffered from a degree of gossip, Liv should be unconsciously more worried about her propriety as she was in the original version. However, as you have already established Eld tend to treat marriage in a different way than humans due to the difference in life time. I agree that there were always going to be issues with her relationship with Cade. There are already elements of her unsure of whether to think of herself as a noble due to her belonging to the House of Syvaa and adopted daughter or as a commoner due to her upbringing. Also she is on a longer time frame in terms of thinking of things. For her the years of letter writing and few months with Cade does not mean as much as it does to him who is looking at things on a much shorter lifespan. However, one aspect that I expected was that Liv would be the more mature one in the relationship as she is 'older' or has observed a lot of other relationships in her lifetime. i.e. I would find the situation more natural if Cade is the one who was more emotional about Liv, while she is more likely to try to talk to him (admittedly hesitantly) in a more adult way. I agree with a lot of the other comments that the problem is the build up to her willing to bring Cade to her bed. I do not think the issue so much is with her previous conservative attitude which would fit her upbringing. I think the changes need to take place between the two dates between Liv and Cade. She needed to reflect at least once on the first time he attempted to go with her to her bedroom and maybe talk to either a close confidant or attempt to address her hesitance to Cade before the second time took place. This conversation would show her lowering her inhibitions a bit due to the different circumstances at Coral Bay. Second issue is her sudden willingness to bring her friends and rudely tell Cade that it is none of his business. That moment seems too impulsive for her. I can see her wanting to keep the two worlds (Eld and human) separate in terms of social circles. (Note that her social circle among humans barely interact with her social circle among the Eld. Something that is somewhat common even in the real world with children from two different cultures and languages.) As such though, I do not think she should be so accepting of allowing her friends to suddenly join her on her journey back. Besides, she is incredibly aware of the dangers of the Eld lands that her friends may not be able to deal with. Lastly, something that is unrelated to Liv is Keri's interaction with Wren. I do not know whether this took place 'off screen', but I would expect the commotion between the two to be more tense. They have never met and he probably should recognize that she was a follower of Racita.
Imspinnennetz
2025-02-16 05:56:02 +0000 UTCI honestly didn't realize it was a issue. 2 people got drunk that are effectively 18 yo and there was no supervision ATM and they made a decision most would make in their age, I don't think it needs to be deeper then that. Now she needs to reanalyze the relationship and her priorities and ppl need to chill out, IRL relationships are not linear proggression video games and the same applies to writing. Also people seem to have this imprression that middle age people were different than us somehow more chaste and all that and to all that I say it depends on the culture, just look at the culture at Coral bay. The reason Liv is struggling is bcs she comes from a different culture. We need hundreds of thousands of years to change, 1000 years in the past is basically nothing meaning the only differences between middle ages is general education lvl, culture and technology. People were still people and when given the opportunity people will make babies.
Darastrix
2025-02-16 05:35:37 +0000 UTCIt's his fault he assumed their marriage was a done deal when she had never agreed to wed. When he tried to use that privilege he didn't have when she was hungover and regretting her actions the previous night she was going to react poorly. Not that she technically broke up with him although she is going to when she returns if he doesn't. Not that Liv is blameless by any means she should have at minimum disabused him of that notion earlier in private and had a discussion to just break things off.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 05:05:31 +0000 UTCI mean Liv absolutely deserves it though... Not for the act of sleeping with him but stringing that relationship out so long because she was (understandably but still...) enjoying the attention and was too scared to actually have the talk about the future with Cade. AND then ending it in such a public and to him insulting way right after she initiated sex with him... You know considering their ages and personal power differences and current personal wealth and family power differences and expected life span... You could consider Liv a "Groomer" if you didn't know about the slower maturing of Eld lol. Damn the more I think about the details of this relationship the more fucked up the reality of it is for Cade in my mind holy shit.
Gopard
2025-02-16 04:28:41 +0000 UTCI 100% agree on the second part! Still feel the relationship with Cade would be helped by just them spending more time in coral bay and that way we could also understand why Liv wants to have her friends along, if they spent 2-3 months getting super close spending 80% of their time outside of classes together and go dreaming about future adventures and of course also continue learn and polish their skills... Suddenly some (right now) random humans coming along as a hindrance and potential political incident (if anyone gets hurt) I also don't see the whole "journeyman comes along for official excursion" because Coral Bay simply doesn't have any buiseness going to the ancestral home and funeral of the strongest and oldest current Eld...
Gopard
2025-02-16 04:24:15 +0000 UTCShe didn't really have an opportunity to conceal it considering what happened the next morning. I also think he likely will protest next chapter.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 03:09:51 +0000 UTCI agree I would more be for just writing in additional time for "everything Coral bay" basically as it was before but more pronounced, make the inner conflict "Liv loves the attention but deep down already knows she won't commit to Cade" and that explodes in this scene. A combination of "I really want to explore this sexuality and I don't mind doing that with Cade, also getting more and more pent up" "But I also feel he is not really part of this closeknit friendgroup as friend he is here as my "lover" in his own eyes and thats drives a rift between us for stuff beyond romantic situations" one thing I noticed also "now this group of friends will actually have the skills to join this journey without extreme risk to their health, thus making Keri even consider allowing them along, and I know them enough now I actually have a reason for wanting them with me for one of the closest and private family moments imaginable" and then when the King Tide happens 2 month later "the celebration then went to far but waking up Liv finally realized she much rather travel with friends than this stuffy "fiancee relationship" with Cade and thus events unfolded accordingly" I'm kind of campaigning for this "add 2 or even just one chapter as a sort of "small time skip but with socializing set up" before the big plot explosion" I honestly wouldn't actually expect them now more as an idea for when this story gets published potentially. I feel like the ideas are pretty much clear here... Liv is a horny (in human terms)teenager and it finally won her brain over, the relationship was doomed from the start the author hasn't been too subtle about that both in chapters and in the comments and Liv feels more drawn to travelling with friends in a casual setting than stuffy noble romance and "politically correct settings with annoying obligations".
Gopard
2025-02-16 03:09:48 +0000 UTCBoth definitely made mistakes. Liv when she realized Cade and her were in different places should have sat down thought about. Then she should have talked it over with him. She also probably should have realized it wasn't going to work earlier. I think she didn't really think too deeply about what marrying Cade would mean for her life and was just enjoying the process. Although part of it also was she was still trying to figure out what she wanted. Cade shouldn't have jumped to conclusions as others have said Liv made it very clear at the start she wasn't committed. I think it kind of went in one ear and out the other before the fact she had agreed to court him. Then he built their relationship up in his mind and assumed Liv thought the same way. He probably shouldn't have first time slept with a very drunk women who hadn't made it clear beforehand it was fine with her. Although he was probably also somewhat intoxicated.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 02:46:23 +0000 UTCA lot of the appeal this story has is that it's wholesome and grounded and this just doesn't jive with that for me. I appreciate and respect you thinking about and trying to address reader concerns like this. But to me these feel like significant changes, and personally, I don't like any of them. Every scene you altered and the mc is just less enjoyable for them. Even if it adds up to the actions making more sense, and I'm not sure it does, that's not necessarily good. I think it was better being a oneoff bad judgement and perhaps out of character decision. It happens. Just my two cents.
Rip Woodham
2025-02-16 02:36:27 +0000 UTCI think it's pretty much been promised she will have to socially deal with the fallout. I doubt she will be the first person to deal with it there. Although she got exposed pretty hard by the events going on around her. The worst case is if someone tries to force her to marry Cade. It can't work but it could get nasty and force her to flee north in really bad cases. Edith is going to turn back against her now. I kind of expect her and Cade to leave not long afterwards and get married. Some people will definitely snipe at her and she will have to deal with it. It could harm some of her allies as well but I don't think the effect will be too great outside of social distress and maybe some punishment for breaking school rules. It would probably make it hard for her to court some other people particularly heirs but I think she was very unlikely to court another one anyway.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 02:34:01 +0000 UTCHonestly I agree with most except the Cade's "misconception" issue: Consider this sentence again "I a nominal commoner/bastard, but who obviously also has a bit of a crush on you, offer you to court me (lol in this society "offering a noble heir to court a commoner") in return for THREE full votes the most important political currency my father has and that I (and my allies) desperately need. I think there are only to possible reactions 1) correct Anger: "Fuck you Liv you obviously never meant this to work out with your father and plans for the mage guild and visiting the Eld we couldn't even marry until more than half my life is over thanks for nothing" Or 2) (the lover boy variation): Wow she agreed to marry me! I will finally meet my sweetheart at coral bay and marry her once she is out of there! And Liv never gave a shit about actually clearing up this misconception. Julianne and the Eld ofc didn't bc they needed the Summerset's votes. Cade's father I'm almost certain MUST have known. But wanted a reason to support the faction anyway and now will get a reason to demand satisfaction because the Duchess and the Eld have lost massive face with Living blowing off Cade like this "hah You were good enough to fuck and now GTFO" In this relationship Liv was the cold manipulator even if perhaps subconsciously. I mean her never even thinking seriously about having kids, was a giant Glaring Red Curtain that she cannot be the wife of a Noble HEIR... Anyway I think this whole thing actually makes sense. Liv had a crush absolutely loved getting courted, jewelry, letters knowing someone is infatuated with you such a great feeling and who knows I never said I WOULDN'T marry him. Then on the college she is like "oh shit he ACTUALLY wants to marry who would have thought??? That means commitment". The contact didn't bother her the scandal is only because she was never gonna marry him if she did those rumors couldn't do too much Whitehill could be notified by letter I slept with Cade now I will engage to him officially. That would be fine... However even with it being obvious this relationship fails, this scene I think could work with more time in Coral bay. Say 2-3 months in Coral Bay it gets increasingly clear Liv can't let go of Cade but"something" is also stopping her from engaging too much in public even though it "feels so great". And then one day Bam both get super drunk she just blows of Thora (I agree using Wren only made this worse BTW like tf???) No those are 2 mages if they are drunk enough and want to fuck Thora can do nothing to stop them... And then this could also make the whole other big thing "new friendships" much more natural. I mean in my opinion 3 weeks aren't nearly enough to create bonds deep enough that using THAT waystone the one LITERALLY ENDING IN THE SHOALs (when did Mana sickness stop being a thing for humans? I thought that was a reason why no humans EVER use that stone???) so Mana sickness and enough monsters to give her father trouble protecting Liv the first time: Now we have 4 times the targets to protect, Keri is weaker than Liv's father by a good couple centuries, She has little to no experience to protecting others while riding. Camping in the rift before reaching Kelris isn't really an option especially since patrols are waiting for them anyway, so at least Arjun... A guy from an extremely hot climate with no mundane nor magical combat skills has absolutely no buiseness in this. (I doubt he is comparable not to mention better than House Syväes healers yet that would stretch the whole "Eld are masters of magic" beyond suspension of disbelief) She knows most of them 3 weeks and just says "yeah come along visiting my dying grandpa some super private family time but Cade how dare he want to come along". And the biggest issue with that last part is Keri not making it clear he has to at the end decide who comes along. If Liv knew them a few months she would have grounds to CONVINCE Keri to take them along. Anyway thats why I feel the Coral Bay Arc in general isn't fundamentally flawed, but rushed. It's to quick, let live built up friendship, reputation and will to experience, frustration and the relationship to Cade enough that it at some point "explodes" in this chapter. Then she "storms off" with her "band of friends" and comes back the already well known "stupidly strong and rich student who is talented at most everything and finally decided to blow off Cade". The rumors would fly, but they would more be "Eld nobles just want to fuck(literally) with poor Lucanians".
Gopard
2025-02-16 02:32:45 +0000 UTCI honestly struggle how people here see Liv as the victim in anythin relating Cade romance so far... She is the one who wouldn't want to commit but enjoyed Cade's courting immensly. Any reader could honestly see she was mostly just stringing him along, but doing it unintentionally. Had she the day they said goodbuy sat him down and told him: Cade my name is Livara (shit forgot the middle) Syva (or something) I'm so far only heir of my generation of the House of Syva, essentially an Eldish duchy, I have also the blood of Gods in my veins will life about 5 times as long as you naturally at least, have no real intention of immediatly settling down after college as I at least want to join the mages Guild and visit my people and their settlements... She was gonna be the "noblewomen wife who raises the kids at home". Cade would have been ok with that but he CANNOT be as an noble Heir. Had she just actually made her position clear to him and his father it would have been easily clear that she was never suitable to be a (randoms) baron wife. She didn't though (because she didn't really understand I think) and for some reason neither did anyone else (I mean its obvious why they wouldn't want to tell the Baron hah we got your vote but you should stop the courting now it's never gonna work). At this point she doesn't want to understand or rather does understand but doesn't want to deal with the confrontation. Her having sex with Cade one last time before brutally blowing him off in a way off "No YOU DON'T GET TO COME ALONG!!! Ah but my friends I know for 3 weeks who add little to nothing and are in grave danger in such a journey they can come along" This feels like a bitch move honestly. It feels to me like she realised "Ah fuck this won't work out but I wanna still pretend" or its more like the author had a plan for Liv's first relationship and Cade fell by the wayside as the victim. I find it strange anyway how we use the term "relationship" here. Liv "allowed Cade to court her" in return for one of the biggest political favours his Father could give. ANYONE else in such a society would understand this "yeah we'll get bethrothed at Coral Bay". Anyway to address what you guys were discussing: Cade is literally a young man with extreme blueballs who is in love with Liv he gifter her emotionally important jewellry, send letters the whole time, didn't touch anyone else (in that time absolutely not the standard especially with how Coral Bay is portrayed) and accepted getting threatened by her bodyguard. Then they celebrate and both get drunk and SHE INVITES HIM IN... He didn't even push this time it was her. He is sleeping the whole time Liv is puking and they barge in that guy was obviously out cold drunk after they were done the night. I just feel like the entire Arc was rushed. 3 weeks for her finding friends she will with no hesitation take on a dangerous journey, the whole drama development with Cade, Edith drama, Mercenary Drama, magic development, considering her future paths in a whole new light, a week full of duels, and a Kingtide. It was to me kind of obvious with this much stuff happening the attention to detail would suffer for the single sub plots. Because "more time" would literally solve every complain but one I have read so far who said "I think Coral Bay doesn't make sense as is in the society that you wrote but to fix this you would basically need to rewrite stuff from chapter on". Just have Liv spend 2-3 months at the college... More romance time and to get accustomed to everything, more time to establish real friendships (I am personally skeptical that after 3 weeks I would want to risk my life with people only to take them to an extremely personal moment with the death of my grandfather) You may notice for me the fact her friends come along is actually even stranger than the sex thing lol. That can be in any context pretty much explained with "Teenagers being piss drunk do stuff with zero regard for consequences".
Gopard
2025-02-16 02:27:10 +0000 UTCShe didn't talk to him, but she did think about him, so it was a very believable "quiet and chaste girl gets drunk unchaperoned and ends up in bed with a guy". The developing relationship makes it plausible for Liv to decide to have sex with Cade (as opposed to being to drunk to think), but makes everything else unbelievable.
Michael Maor
2025-02-16 02:11:59 +0000 UTCYou're not completely wrong, but I think what the author is trying to establish, is that there is a range of cultures involved and that while Liv was raised in a culture where women were all expected to be chaste, the big city was more permissive and the college town even more so, except that Liv screwed up and jumped past even the more permissive limits the college culture allowed. The problem with this being that the more the author shows Liv having a romantic relationship with Cade instead of sticking to the chaste "acceptable" relationship the harder it is to justify no one talking to her about the culture clash issues, especially not as this should be something the school is used to dealing with. I thought the original was fine because it was Liv sticking to her standards...until she got drunk and lost control. That made more sense than Liv being an utter moron and ignoring everyone and/or everyone else leaving Liv ignorant of what was expected and accepted in the college. One thing about cultures like this - there are NO historical parallels, any attempt to draw a historical parallel is false and misleading. The issue is, this is a culture where noble women not only can, but are expected and required to, fight and lead men in combat. One where women have their own honor that they are expected to defend. There has never been a culture like that historically, and those are aspects that would greatly change how relationships between men and women are viewed.
Michael Maor
2025-02-16 02:07:59 +0000 UTCalso making revisions now is kind of pointless. You would need alot of revisions and written chapters to conform what you want. Pleasing the masses will never work, no one is satisfied...ever. Posting on Patreon, Royal Road, Scribblehub or whatever site you want invites criticism on an open stage. If you or others are not able to handle said criticism, then may I suggest.....locking the comment section and tell people to suck it up and move on. Then we all get to read what you write, cant say anything about it, cant point out flaws or inconsistencies or provide advice. We all have our opinions, we all have our ideas. We deal with what we are dealt with. We ask questions, point out what works and what doesn't. You want to write a book and maybe hoping to publish, make money, write more, rinse and repeat. I enjoy the book you are writing, I read the comments and see people giving suggestions, pointing out grammar errors and so forth. But in the past few chapters....well....ya..
307Bookworm_AOB
2025-02-16 02:00:26 +0000 UTCSorry, I misunderstood. Objecting to people in comments calling her a whore or slutshaming her is something I agree with. I hadn't read the comments you're referring to and thought you were referring to people pointing out that she would be called/treated like a whore for her actions, which is something very different. I certainly hope the author does have characters call her names and slutshame her, because it would be jarring and unbelievable for them not to do so.
Michael Maor
2025-02-16 01:49:01 +0000 UTCLiv - Commoner origins, made no attempts at concealing this and fully embraced this. Now in a high position at the school and at her home. What would rumors say about her being caught in bed with someone she is not married to in a society that puts labels on others. Consider that Liv has enemies already (Royal Family, Edith to some extent, Cult and several others). Using rumors, how do you think she will fare? Thora - Personal Maid, employed to protect her lady in physical, emotional and social interactions so she can blend into noble society. How does it look to her employer that a mere "Slave" was able to distract her, play blocker so Liv can have some fun which can cause rumors to spread. Knowing that said rumors can come from anywhere, including their own roommate who has a crush on said boy. Wren - basically a "slave", position on thin ice based on her actions and past. Only alive because Liv basically begged for it and defended her based on actions during eruption. Now what will her life look like when it comes to light that she purposely interfere with Thora so Liv can have a fun night. Master Jurian - Guild member and Master to Liv. He has a bit of a reputation that puts people on the fence about him. They either like him or they hate him. Now add a "promiscuous" apprentice that is rumored to sleep with anyone out of wedlock whether others do it or not, it may not be something people openly discuss. How will his role in all this play out and will Liv's life be different among her peers or school staff. Will they question Jurian about his relationship with Liv to get her to be his apprentice before she is qualified, regardless of how it came to be. Edith - Noble origins (pretty sure), in love with Cade and dislikes Liv for stealing him from her. Was pacified by a "pie" and then didn't hear much after. Now faced with the fact that her crush and her rival just slept together without so much of a warning or build-up. Basically comes out of left field to her. Whats going to stop her from destroying Liv socially and ruining alot? Promiscuous or not, whore it up or not, nothing will screw up your life more than a woman scorned. Duchess Julliane - Adopted Mother (secret) and benefactor. Hated by Royal Family and several other faction houses aligned with RF. Has heard about her Mage student that she is sponsoring at the College is sleeping around with students, possible professors and so forth. Rumors are rumors, but once they gain traction, you are screwed. How will she deal with this situation if it comes to light. Liv's Mother - Commoner and Liv is extremely proud of her. However, in Chapter 44, The princess insulted Liv about her origins and parentage. Where the Princess called her mother a "Whore" which resulted in a duel. So at this point in the story (60 chapters ago) its frowned upon. Whether its out of wedlock, social status or mistresses. Having it said or spread causes issues. Now Liv is in same position with people around her that can and will spread those same rumors just to destroy or manipulation the situation to their favor. Cade - Noble, only son of his house. Infatuated at first sight and was mistrusted at start. Started courting Liv and somehow over the course of years felt he moved out of friendzone without the friendzoner giving permission. In Chapter 51, when the conversation about adoption and courting was brought up, Liv specifically said that she wanted her adoption thing to wait till after Coral Bay and decide then. Then was asked if this changed his or his families plans, which he responded that he likes her and not politically, then she proposes votes in favor the situation. Liv says “Three votes from your father, if you want to court me. The two for Lady Julianne, and one for the Eld. And courting isn’t a guarantee. If you still want to ask for my hand after we’re both done at Coral Bay, you can ask, and I’ll decide then.” How does one mistake this conversation in front of everyone to how he was acting in Coral Bay. Obvious communication disorder between the 2 or something more. When a precedent is made early on in the book and repeated over and over throughout the course to only be trounced and changed so abruptly is beyond a a character flaw and either leads to alot more than being described or written. Mixing societal etiquette and mannerisms screws with the continuity with the story. If you are 95% once way, then abruptly change the last 5% to further a story, then you are falling into a trap alot of authors go through. When they want to advance the story, but in a hurry because you are excited about it, changes happen that will confuse your readers or they feel the situation was cheapened, tropey or whatever. Plot movement, gets gloss over what was established in favor of forward movement. In over 40 years of reading thousands of books, web novels, mangas or whatever written material for stories, this happens often and the author gets ripped for it almost everytime. The relationship between Liv and Cade was never my issue. The issue was the speed and progression of it, the absence of key figures around her that are supposed to be with her at all times and so forth. It was abrupt, out of character, slapped in like a band-aid to move plot along and in my opinion not well thought out. I stand by my statement about "whoring it up" not to insult the main character, but try and understand that Liv's world and our World are different. What may be socially acceptable to our world, is definitely not acceptable in Liv's world. This was made aware of how she was raised, her actions, how people are around her and so forth. What Matt and Triss did during their stay in College may or may not be publicly known. It was only made to light in the company of family and friends. And how the princess and some nobles acted and worded their phrases, it can be assumed that it may not be acceptable and nothing harms a woman's reputation more than being branded as a "whore". Whether she is one or not, once the title is cast upon a woman, its stuck with them in certain echelons of Society. And those around her can and will be effected by it.
307Bookworm_AOB
2025-02-16 01:43:55 +0000 UTCOh, I agree that Liv being an idiot is alright, my point is that since the author didn't seem to intend the changes to make her more of an idiot they don't seem to work as intended.
Michael Maor
2025-02-16 01:42:54 +0000 UTCI find this extreme resistance to an element of the story introduced for tens of chapters already strange. Especially since I would say if I like a story enough to join its patreon its strange to speak of "quitting" it so to speak because of an Element which was introduced, explained, explained more thouroughly and even from the author himself said it would be "interesting to see Liv in the more open Environment of Coral Bay" not so subtly hinting we would be in for exactly SOMETHING like this at some point. I think this is just going a bit too fast honestly. The Coral Bay arc in general feels rushed and to long at the same time... We had sometimes one written exam and one battle for a single chapter I think? Then several more battles over a week (in story) and 2 weeks later the King Tide, add to this big personal development for Liv, the meeting of new friends, her first real time of "being together with Cade", her then even mending fences with a semi love rival being attacked by stupid nobles, strange mercenaries... And of course then to end it the Eld events plus now the Journey. All this happened in 3 weeks. This Story goes for 25 already right? Or maybe just 24 depending on how much time from chapter one till the first magic I don't remember. I don't see the REASON why we get this rush. Coral Bay lasts for 2 years at least. Will we get a school arc till chapter 200 (with journeys and excursions in it) with every few weeks being this dense? I highly doubt it. It doesn't fit the tone of the story to not have periods in larger Arcs where little happens other than "they continued training and doing the normal routine". Thats just my take though I honestly mostly answered you because I found it odd to say like "I feel like you need to rewrite the story from chapter 1 and the entire concept of this society is kind of bad the way you wrote it". I mean that also doesn't go away if Liv is the only prude at "college". Honestly if we went into nitpicky realism the term "college" itself is a bit strange for a historical novel... This term only came to be used long after "Universities" already existed lol^^
Gopard
2025-02-16 01:42:27 +0000 UTCI saw exactly one comment who used those words in quotation marks as how it would be perceived... I found this reaction strange also how much more of ALL comments below that chapter were just complaining how "so many people have some super conservative view and are disliking this (sex scene) because of that" than people who were even naming the sex scene itself as the main problem. Honestly the conflict felt like people just refusing to actually read each others opinions (on all sides lmao) I saw like 1-2 people who seem to be completely opposed to the "Coral bay is a place where people do whatever they want" concept. Those were obviously also opposed to Liv joining that... Which from their point of view makes sense in that they consider the "Nobillity suddenly having completely different rules here than everyone else" the "plot problem" not "Liv is acting like a slut/Liv will be seen as a slut/whore". Most people were upset at what this is trying to rectify: "Liv comes of as prude and pretty opposed to the "promisciousness" of Coral Bay and now suddenly gets drunk and fucks Cade". I personally still feel this doesn't actually adress my own core issue: I feel like this is moving too fast. Too many chapters for too little time passed and too many big plot developments included.
Gopard
2025-02-16 01:38:02 +0000 UTCYeah exactly lol. Not every situation has a victim. It’s two kids doing what kids do, focusing on their take on the situation and not taking what the other one is feeling seriously enough. Two people can make a mistake together. And yeah, the oysters bit is silly ahaha
Anotherb Account
2025-02-16 01:37:17 +0000 UTCI mean kids going to college and being utter morons is honestly normal even when the kids aren't routinely exposed to literal life or death combat situations. I agree some revision was maybe warranted to make it more clear that Liv is being a dumb college kid, but I think her being a dumb college kid is both normal and totally ok.
Zaeron
2025-02-16 01:00:53 +0000 UTCI think the impression we are supposed to get is that the world is undergoing a culture shift partily driven by the college's culture. Where you have a bunch of young people interacting with peers for the first time without heavy supervision. So you've got the older nobles who are still very traditional and the more flexible young nobles who aren't in charge yet. Then again that's just my read and maybe we should have seen some hints what she was raised in isn't universal anymore at some point before Matthew and Triss' return to smooth it over.
Tarrim
2025-02-16 00:53:35 +0000 UTCI think that making Liv thirstier does a lot to make this feel more like a natural progression of where things were going. I haven’t done a re-read, but going by my memory Liv never really talked about anything important with Cade, which helps show the lack of communication that lead to their misunderstanding. However it might be a good contrast to show her open up a but more to her friends, and it could help show what she is thinking. The 3rd person objective perspective made it a bit easier to fall into the trap of the reader not understanding what Liv is thinking, and some more character driven moments with her friends could help alleviate that.
Venna
2025-02-16 00:34:21 +0000 UTCI personally don't really care for any of these revisions, as none of them really address the core issues of the situation, which is that Liv is acting like a modern girl at a modern college, instead of who and what she is. Its your story you can do what you like at the end of the day, but what you are trying to do with these current rewrites, makes it feel like rather than altering the story to better reflect the person Liv is, and the world she is in, you are making changes so you don't have to course correct from your own predetermined path for her life which was formed from a flawed lens of your own modern sensibilities. I should add, that lens is flawed, because of how you have built your world thus far. Had you clearly defined that the noble class was allowed to be highly promiscuous, as some historically and fictionally have been, there would be little issue with what you are trying to do here. However, that is not the world you have built thus far, and I feel that you would need major rewrites going all the way back to chapter 1 to alter that at this point. I will also say, please do not do that, it would irrevocably alter the story you have made thus far, and harm things far more than just leaving things as they are now with no revisions whatsoever. Prior to deciding that she is going to pull him into her bed out of the blue, her choices and thoughts were pretty consistent with what would be expected based on her personality, life experiences, and so on. She was more or less behaving as she should. As was Cade actually, societies like this almost always have deep double standards where women are expected to be chaste and reserved, where as men are allowed to be womanizers with little to no social repercussions. Honestly, yesterday, given your lack of response to comments, as well as how active you normally are, I thought you might have something under your hat so to speak with the story taking an unexpected turn. Such as her poor decision making being caused by Celestria Ward using her word to manipulate Liv into acting how she normally wouldn't as revenge for her previous loss. Or a similar situation being an engineered manipulation by Cade to cause Liv to sleep with him so that she has no choice but to marry him. Because if the manipulation went undiscovered, she would socially be ruined by the situation should she not marry him. Only for the plan to be foiled by Keri's very abrupt and unexpected arrival and a subsequent discovery of the manipulation. Regardless, I hope you can do something better than what you have planned here, because I don't think it really gets what you want done, nor do I think it fits the story and I want to continue enjoying Guild Mage. Up until the last couple chapters its been excellent.
Daemon Ursus
2025-02-16 00:20:48 +0000 UTCi don't really care, there's no reason for people to be calling a female mc a whore in any context. this is just making excuses for foul language. it's easy to say "liv is being very promiscuous for the time setting that you've presented to us, is there a worldbuilding reason for that to be more acceptable than it seems? will the characters think poorly of her for that?" instead of "i don't like that liv is whoring it up". and even if you string someone along and don't end up marrying them, that doesn't make you a whore in any universe. it just makes you a human being who is flawed as all humans are.
ashsalt
2025-02-16 00:13:18 +0000 UTCthe question i have is: Why is Cade not included when Liv thinks about her friends?
roflkong3
2025-02-15 23:35:32 +0000 UTCExcellent revisions
Garadhrim
2025-02-15 23:29:22 +0000 UTCModern standards are fine, but the fact is given the culture we're shown people in the setting WOULD be calling Liv a whore, and it will be worse because of her parentage (and of course jealousy. Liv building up a romantic relationship and then denying she was betrothed after having sex with Cade only makes things worse for her.
Michael Maor
2025-02-15 23:29:01 +0000 UTCI think your changes make the issue with Liv's relationship both better, and worse. Better because now there's a gradual buildup rather than Liv getting drunk and screwing up, but worse because with all that build up she had plenty of chances to both discuss things with Cade and find out the details of how the college viewed things not just "everything is permitted". I didn't see anything wrong with the original version, but then I assumed that was Cade taking advantage of Liv when he was supposed to be helping her learn the new culture, with Liv getting too drunk to consent. Since that does not appear to be what you were aiming for it definitely needed fixing, but now you made Liv into an utter moron, which I also don't think you meant. About Liv's friends joining - if they don't have warm enough clothes, Keri should object, and even if not, the fact he seems to have vanished from the narrative despite him accompanying Liv, and Livara not being considered an adult by his standards means he should be the one in charge, or at least offering advice. If you're going to make a big deal about them lacking suitable clothes I'd suggest having him be the one to voice the objection, and Liv making the excuse she can provide them with heat.
Michael Maor
2025-02-15 23:25:20 +0000 UTCThat’s a much more natural progression for the Cade bit, nice changes! I still really disagree with the any of the humans coming along, it really doesn’t make much sense narratively they’re even considered coming. You addressed their physical unpreparedness by having Liv cover it, but they are active hindrances at this point in their development. Plus this should be a personal moment for Liv and her family, why are you diluting it so much?
Stuart Anderson
2025-02-15 23:24:46 +0000 UTCOf course! You guys essentially get a first draft, here on Patreon. At some point I may post the rewritten chapter 39 that's going to end up as three chapters, for people to see.
Dave N
2025-02-15 23:12:56 +0000 UTCAwesome, great updates. My concerns had been how abrupt it was with no previous indicators. This makes it a more natural progression.
John Koor
2025-02-15 23:00:46 +0000 UTCeven if i concede the point that he wasn't being manipulative getting her drunk, i still think she should have shown more shock or regret at her near-slip the first night. she knew she wasn't ready, so when she woke up the morning after she should have had some sort of emotional reaction to almost making a mistake.
ashsalt
2025-02-15 22:55:00 +0000 UTC@Larc yeah the oysters thing was something someone else mentioned in a comments section and i wasnt sure about it so that's why it's in brackets. mostly my objection is to the drinking part. Cade's pushy by default and it seemed to me his plan was wine and sex from the get-go.
ashsalt
2025-02-15 22:52:50 +0000 UTCI am still of the opinion he didn't intentionally get her drunk. Yeah he went a long with her drunk desires but he also thought they were at that point. Still not great but he thought she was ready for it and not very driven by how drunk she was.
Tarrim
2025-02-15 22:51:35 +0000 UTCalso, thank you for the note on the slutshaming. people saying liv was "whoring it up" on that chapter were just going too far. i have no objections on principle to liv experimenting in college, i only had an objection to her and cade moving a bit too fast and her reactions to her own uncertainty not seeming quite right
ashsalt
2025-02-15 22:48:26 +0000 UTCCade feels being strung along while liv feels rushed
melchi
2025-02-15 22:48:06 +0000 UTCYeah I think the point is that making it work is going to be super hard because of differences.
melchi
2025-02-15 22:47:30 +0000 UTCIs Cade intentionally getting her drunk? Liv's been shown to drink too much on several occasions. She has more life experience than him and knows her limits better---if she doesn't want to drink, she could just say no? And the oysters bit is crazy to me. First of all, unless I'm terribly out of the loop, the whole aphrodisiac thing is a myth. If I remember correctly, they contain zinc, and only if your zinc levels were low to begin with do they have any effect on testosterone. Secondly, they're next to the ocean---oysters are a plentiful and commonly eaten! It feels like such an enormous reach that people immediately jumped to the 'he intentionally spiked her with aphrodisiac!!!' conclusion.
Larc
2025-02-15 22:47:08 +0000 UTCUnless your intent is to have Cade bite the proverbial bullet in the north, I think it makes so, so much more sense for them to sleep together when they come back, not before.
Jake
2025-02-15 22:47:03 +0000 UTChe's the one who tries to take it further when they get back to high hall and he's the one who ordered the food. im not talking about the recent chapter but the instance before it
ashsalt
2025-02-15 22:45:08 +0000 UTCDidn’t they drink together? She doesn’t seem like she’s been taken advantage of, Cade seems to be the one not in charge here (and upset that she might just be having fun). That isn’t saying he’s being taken advantage of either. Both are making choices focused on themselves and their plans and not thinking about what the other might be thinking, a very normal thing for kids to do
Anotherb Account
2025-02-15 22:44:08 +0000 UTCInteresting to me to see the process of a web novel becoming a real novel, thanks for sharing
Anotherb Account
2025-02-15 22:41:22 +0000 UTCit's still unpleasant to me that cade is intentionally getting her drunk (+oysters aphrodisiac?) to make her more receptive to sleeping with him and she, despite being very uncertain about the whole thing, doesn't seem to show any discomfort around the fact that she isn't super ready and she nearly did something she regretted that first dinner
ashsalt
2025-02-15 22:40:38 +0000 UTC
