STUNNING HOWLS - Discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Added 2020-10-15 17:23:57 +0000 UTCFeel free to express your thoughts regarding STUNNING HOWLS in the comments below.
Comments
This comic was pretty well written, I liked it. Especially the art, it was pretty interesting. I don't have a long and valid criticism to type out though I really enjoyed it, I think it was best not to take a story like this too seriously. The female heroins should get some thrill or enjoyment out of it and it shouldn't be some climatic battle for conquest between characters, that results in some awful tragedy. It's best if there's a lightness to it because if the female character is really struggling, then it becomes too much on the darker side and less of a hot read seeing the main character in some kind of problem that becomes inescapable. This is a really hot territory, I don't think it's really offensive as someone said because first it's not real, and second of all it's a parody for a reason it's also not real. Neither the characters nor the subject matter is actually happening in any kind of realistic or feasible sense that the character is actually going through turmoil in their own universe or the reader is witnessing some bad thing happening. Which creates more tragedy than what was originally intended, because again it's not meant to be taken seriously. That said it was pretty hot, and it would be good to see this return to other main characters and main villains.
Comicfan4474
2020-10-18 10:02:42 +0000 UTCYou are purposely misreading me. "Unambiguously your original post criticizes the story for the girls not giving into their baser desires, and I've got to say that there is no comparison between a woman enjoying group sex and being controlled." It doesn't say that at all. It says the opposite of that and I clarified it and even used the words choose and choice. In no way did I say I wanted them to enjoy being assaulted by mind control or other means. In fact, in the actual story they enjoy being r-p-d by mind control. And I say I don't like it. I don't get off on watching sexual violence. I say there are other ways to construct sex between adversaries.
WrexosaurusRex
2020-10-18 00:12:16 +0000 UTCI thank you for your reply, but I disagree on a fundamental level. This is the thing, all of those scenarios just makes it worse. There is no such thing as dubcon, period. If an ulterior motive, like wanting to survive or being undercover exists, it does not change the fundamental fact of assault. If you deliberately change a person's brain chemistry that is assault. If adding a layer of remove artistically makes it acceptable or more erotic then thats really awful in my opinion. It is actually worse on many levels. In context to show a person enjoying assault normalizes it, and worse it seems that on some level many agree. As awful as Mayday's pain is it is very important to understand that fundamental fact. If you mean readers giving into their baser desires (which was not the original usage) and not the characters then that seems to be a massive shift there. Unambiguously your original post criticizes the story for the girls not giving into their baser desires, and I've got to say that there is no comparison between a woman enjoying group sex and being controlled. No equivalency whatsoever. If the ugliness accurately reflected makes the story unenjoyable then thats an artistic triumph for Tracy. It makes the story even better. Although she has very understandable concerns, I also must note that even the first sex scene in the Scopsverse was such a scene, as an artist she needs to have important themes and ideas that, although can be cutting, are of great worth.
Spooney Bard
2020-10-17 18:27:49 +0000 UTC"Giving into their base desires despite themselves" does not mean enjoying a gang r-p-. The story already does that. It means choosing to bang a bunch of criminals even though they know they shouldn't make that choice. Clearly. Other than that misreading, I think we agree with each other. My critique was careful not to to morally judge the existence of this comic or NC works generally. R-p- themes can be played with productively. Rough adversarial sex can be awesome. Dubious consent in fiction can be constructed as off-panel consent. Ulterior motives can be used. Even extortion and aphrodisiacs have their place in fiction. The end of “Stunning Howls” makes it clear that Tracy doesn't want to make straight r-p- comics, but does want to engage with the theme. But this comic asks readers to enjoy long depictions of r-p- and assault more than any other Scops comic. That is what I object to. I just did not enjoy this.
WrexosaurusRex
2020-10-17 04:35:48 +0000 UTCHere is the problem with your argument, it is actually worse for a story like this to have the girls conflicted or "giving into their baser desires despite." That actually creates doubt in the minds of the culture at large whether actions of dubious consent are actually rape. There is no dubious consent, it only exists in the legal claims of rapists. No one would ever enjoy this happening to them, and no story should ever go that direction. It lessens the impact of the assault, and nothing ever should. Silk kinda going with it is much more disgusting to me than Annie wrenching during her DV, because the latter scene exists within a believable structure of human behavior whereas the previous is a sorta apologia. Now is the argument for why is this NC content valuable. A harder question to be sure, but such works portray human behavior that would in any realistic context occur with some regularity. Exploring such dark themes in a artistic setting allows for the reader to see the ugliness of the villainy and quell any psychological block that may exist. Lastly it's a natural function of sex situations when discussing sexual scenarios. Name any popular character and roughly 40% of their fantasized partners are in adversarial positions. Though unimaginable in real life in a parodic art eros like this can be very affecting for many people. To ignore such things just leaves a major element of the story, the conflict with evil, absolutely absent.
Spooney Bard
2020-10-16 17:37:21 +0000 UTCI was so excited to see these three in a story then it has to be a crappy Rpe story. Not fun at all. And it wasn't even clever like the old Bangbus story. Hell there isn't even a story like that awful Goblinning book. You don't need conversations about consent and it is fine to push the limits, but I don't want straight violence. The girls aren't conflicted. They aren't giving in to base desires despite themselves. A teenage girl says "I'm Scared" for Anansi's sake. I don't care about whether this story is wrong, it just ain't sexy. I know some women have r-p- fantasies and you can have healthy r-p- play, but can we not have a full on assault?
WrexosaurusRex
2020-10-16 05:26:53 +0000 UTCStunning Howls is the hardest R story this year, and although it has some weaknesses is the best of its genre in all of 2020. The Spider-girls walk straight into a furnace and several infernos are set. To compare to say Undercovered Cat got as much of a piece of Silk on the cover, whereas here the cover is gentler than most of the action on the pages. TC nails every line of every image, the characterization was so strong I could instinctively intuit Mayday was getting the quad treatment even before seeing her face. There is so much good it can be a bit challenging to note every detail. The Howls were clearly offended by May's attempt to compartmentalize and thus they engaged much more vitriolically with her and managed to crack her veneer. Annie's outright fear gave way to to a satisfying break. Anya, her second time in darkness both by mental manipulation, struggles and squirms under the demented leader's wrath. The setup with the three chiseled femmes sailing with power, and in Anya's case overconfidence, and then seeing the horror of evil upon being unarmored. Unmasked, the Spider was placed aside leaving only the girl. The eye closeup was brilliant; with a horrified Anya, struggling May, terrified Annie. Mayday is the real hero, going through an ordeal of suffering before struggling free. She castrates and destroys her nemeses with horror, their blood a symbol of pride and power. Just phenomenal work. Really liked the leader singling out Corazon, really gave the villains texture and diversified the scenario. This might be the best trophy carry since Emjay/Venom in the Scopsverse. That is real villain shit, and always looks hot. For nitpicks first we need more of this content, it is still the best unexplored area and (most importantly) is the sort of story that most often disappoints (hi Goblinning made worse by Norman's big sniff). The Howls aren't real characters, they don't even have a connection to their prey. The masks were a good touch, but it would be hotter to have the big name villains with more acid in their veins in the future. There was a bit too much of a drug effect, too much enjoyment in some of the scenes amongst the trio. Couple with that the weird undercurrent where it can be implied in the villains' minds that this isn't a true attack. This element doesn't work for me, the villain would like to cause suffering and no one wants this to happen to them so it would be better for this element to be retired. Just my quick thoughts.
Spooney Bard
2020-10-15 21:19:05 +0000 UTCWell, dang. The ending was funny, and I'm glad it turned out like that. The journey there might've been a little...ruff. (Heh.)
hellenberg
2020-10-15 20:21:22 +0000 UTC
