REACTION: Joseph Smith Foundation Recording
Added 2022-01-14 04:08:50 +0000 UTCThis dinnertime conversation took place a couple of nights ago. While it remains raw and unedited like all of our Patreon episodes are, I did insert brief parts of the JSF recording that John and I discussed. Thus a warning to those who might be sensitive to emotional or religious abuse.
For reference:
The recording we are discussing can be found in its entirety HERE: https://youtu.be/fMul-OksIfc
The transcription/explanation of the recording can be found HERE:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FN_HQTYRU7mENCrShhkntoGhG9CocP3u/view?fbclid=IwAR2xTi-gkIYQvqDDsJvE6raZ8eeA0C5MxBliWJdqiP9qzNylq60jFHh-rCI
Comments
I am just mad. Literally. I want to kill that guy. My mom gave me that lecture daily!!!! My whole childhood... It was always my fault. It was my fault to be angry with my mom. It was never her fault when she lied, she manipulated, she screamed because my dad loved me. She kept saying that police would come and take me. That I am lucky she suffers me... Cause all the other children cook and clean for the whole family daily. That nobody would ever love or need me but her. That I am stupid. That I bring shame to her. That all of her bullshit was ok. Just my reaction to it was bad
Elizabeth Rukavishnikova
2024-04-17 14:02:35 +0000 UTC1/12024. I’ve been thinking of this Patreon episode while watching the Sister Wives and had to go back to listen to it again. This triangulation and gaslighting is what Kody and Robin are doing to each of the wives.😬. Can’t these men just initiate a divorce instead of ripping these women apart so that the woman is the one to leave? Is the person who initiates the divorce punished by their church? It’s so confusing!! #DownWithPatriarchy
Debi
2024-01-01 23:49:18 +0000 UTCI nearly lost my mind listening to the recording.... The most uncomfortable thing I've listened to on a while - infuriating - we talk alot, and often erroneously, about gaslighting in popular culture these days, but I think this may be a real example?
Gleanne Marie
2022-07-09 13:16:44 +0000 UTCThis is a recording of one of the worst abusers I have ever heard. Blaming his wife for his abusive behavior, turning children against their mother, using religion to abuse, expecting perfection. Notice he always brings up past things he thinks she has done. He is a foul hypocrite who is possessed by a self righteous demon.
Kathleen Miller
2022-04-29 21:22:44 +0000 UTCWe love chocolate in my home.
Becca Moorhead
2022-04-07 17:49:02 +0000 UTCI am unfamiliar with this family so wanted to try and get an understanding of their beliefs and how they fit into all of this. But I had to stop it before 8 minutes. That was horrible hearing the mother trying to defend her daughter that got sent outside, then trying to defend herself against her other daughter and I'm guessing, her husband? Just wow!! Poor lady and whoever else in that family who is/was getting treated that way. Thank goodness she still had the strength to use her voice defending herself and her other daughter. I don't think I can continue listening to it though I am more intrigued about this family now, so perhaps I can read the transcript.
Kara Oastler
2022-03-07 22:20:23 +0000 UTCHis voice is so demeaning. Wow.. He enjoys treating her this way.
Purple
2022-02-21 12:10:28 +0000 UTCI’m with you on the chocolate!!!
Heather Carter
2022-02-20 07:08:16 +0000 UTCThis is painful to listen to. His voice is awful. The daughters are awful. I can’t imagine having to spend a day in this house with these horrible people.
Audra Garrett
2022-02-05 16:42:22 +0000 UTCI’m listening to this and it’s making me angry!!! Let them eat the damn caramel corn! Who cares!!! Talk about controlling!
Katie Barnes
2022-02-01 04:07:28 +0000 UTCAngry is a healthy response to that "family."
LauraK
2022-01-31 17:01:11 +0000 UTCI apologize for being flippant, but, Praise God this is not my family.
Katie Marlowe
2022-01-30 15:11:43 +0000 UTCPlus the delusions, of course.
Sarah Fauth
2022-01-24 03:07:40 +0000 UTCDr John, I am wondering if you think that Julie could have schizophrenia? She appears to make strange connections and appears to have problems communicating clearly.
Sarah Fauth
2022-01-24 03:06:50 +0000 UTCWow, playing WORDLE game and I came across the 5 letter word humph! According to dictionary, humph is an exclamation used to express slightly scornful doubt or dissatisfaction.
pigasus
2022-01-23 11:31:46 +0000 UTCAre there any online journals or any way to hear more of Tammy's voice? I'm not new to the case but I'm not 100% up to date. It would be so nice to hear how she felt in her words. I listened to the interview with the guy who had duck eggs from Tammy and she sounded like such a lovely person.
Julie Port
2022-01-18 20:31:26 +0000 UTCI agree with Tamara. Dr John needs to review the Sisters Wives, however I think they are about to implode all on their own. Thank you guys for reviewing this video. Dr John makes everything so easy to see. I’m glad Leslie/Sarah was able to get out. Hopefully the children will also be able to have a more normal life. Bless her heart, she really did have a evil spirit and it’s name was James. She was miserable and after that many years of living like that your spirit pretty much dies. It not evil but it kind of feels like it. You definitely have a hard time not spreading your unhappiness around. It’s not intentional, it just happens.
Lori B
2022-01-18 20:12:13 +0000 UTCi will see if the mom would be willing to do an interview. love your study idea too!
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-18 19:56:49 +0000 UTCMy hope is that Leslie has a group of girlfriends she can talk to, go to lunch with and order dessert first.
Collette Osburn
2022-01-17 16:36:47 +0000 UTCThe lack of respect for the mother is stunning. I guess giving birth to his nine children doesn’t count for much. This is textbook 101 of emotional abuse. What a fragile little man he is…smh
RobynB
2022-01-17 00:01:48 +0000 UTCI bet they blame mom for ‘bringing evil into the home’ as the cause of the family being destroyed by cancer. My heart goes out to the mom for trying to wade through all the gaslighting.
Lauren Rencher
2022-01-16 18:02:24 +0000 UTCI like when Lauren brings up an idea to see what Dr. John thinks. I like that the two of you don’t always totally agree. It feels like an authentic conversation. I can sense you both (and even the listeners) ruminating over the different ideas. You bring a new and healthier perspective to true crime in general. I find myself trying to use better strategies in my own relationships that I learned from listening to your podcasts. Who knew my guilty pleasure of true crime would lead to that?!
Amy Haddad
2022-01-15 14:46:52 +0000 UTCWoW, While I was listening to that audio I was so "triggered". It felt so like growing up in my house. It felt like the judgement I recieved from my ex husband. My hands were balled up in fists and felt so anxious. How absolutely terrifying that he could turn his daughters on their mother just like that. Moms intent at the beginning of the conversation was to talk about how uncomfortable she felt when her husband sent her daughter to the porch for a think. She tried to stick up for her daughter and in the end 2 daughters and her spouse were attacking her with such flawed arguments and negative digs as to who she is. Talk about triggering. WoW and thank you for sharing this.
m.phebee.smith.m@gmail.com
2022-01-15 12:50:03 +0000 UTCDo we consume Chocolate? Yes, Regularly.
Crystal Swannack
2022-01-15 08:18:39 +0000 UTCHmmm.. sor do those daughters believe that he is evil because he got cancer therefore he was imperfect? That's a serious question
Crystal Swannack
2022-01-15 08:12:10 +0000 UTCI can't understand how at least the daughter can go to church, listen to anything anybody ever says or read anything and think that this behavior is of Christ, right, or acceptable in any way. She has to hear multiple people talking at church but she is going to think her father is right above every single one of them? This is just disgusting and I am actually proud of this wife that she did stand up for herself at least some and she pointed out the ridiculousness of it
Crystal Swannack
2022-01-15 07:42:58 +0000 UTCIt sounds a little like they are having some sort of intervention with the mom, confronting her “sins.”
Rachel Nieman
2022-01-15 02:54:21 +0000 UTCI have listened to the recording a few times but this is very enlightening with your comments. I also found their YouTube channel and watched / listened to Hannah sharing her message. The tone of her voice is completely different. Honor thy father and thy mother…
Melissa Wright
2022-01-15 02:22:47 +0000 UTCHe is disgusted by her lack of “purity” because it hurts his manhood. He has a inferior problem based on the size of his manhood.
Nora Ann
2022-01-14 22:05:11 +0000 UTCOh my! I just realized that Leslie is probably tied to him through all eternity (if she was sealed to him) as it states in the LDS church.
Nora Ann
2022-01-14 21:58:32 +0000 UTCThis woman gave birth to ten children… She was on a strict diet of some sort. No sugar or sweets or donuts and chocolate, and God forgive she eats the Carmel corn. Who pregnant has not eaten something they crave?? I have to wonder if he felt she was over weight and wanted a trophy wife. What would have happened if Lori had crossed his path and she thought he was all that and a bag a chips. Would he had left Leslie? I think he would have and used the excuse that Leslie was taken over by, Ned, or some other evil spirit. In fact, I think he would of wanted her dead, so he wouldn’t have the stain of divorce on his self imposed halo that he thinks sits on his head. Did Tammy have to go through this too? Is Emma a Hannah? Did Emma treat Her mom like this? The anti laughter with Hannah is so sad. She was abused and the love her father gave her was very conditional. Having to walk the ridged line her father drawn for her, must have been hell. She must be so afraid of emotions, the unknown, and herself as well. I hope she doesn’t have children, I hope that because she doesn’t believe in joy. She would not allow her children to have joy. She never learned joy from her Father. She learned to follow rules. How sad.
Nora Ann
2022-01-14 21:56:10 +0000 UTC“It would be better for you not to be here”. Holy cow! I bet he wished Chad was able to help on that! He is so sick!
Nora Ann
2022-01-14 21:06:05 +0000 UTCChad shamed Tammy for playing a harmless video game (chad’s moral equivalent of Carmel corn) At least this wife made it out alive.
Alicia Walker
2022-01-14 20:05:05 +0000 UTCLike others I could not listen more than 7 min so then I switched to the transcript. I also had a hard time with that. I loved your conversation because you had enough “quotes” that you did all the hard work for us. I have questions re Father Creep kicking out the older boys. I have read about that happening in Polygamous Mormon communities. But Father Creep didn’t seem to be interested in having multiple wives. My lingering questions are what happened to the older brothers. Lauren could you interview the mom now and let us know how she is doing? Did she get to keep her younger children? Did she reconcile with her older boys? Does she have any contact with these older daughters? I was a psychology/art history major in college. I never saw any studies on happy families/chocolate correlations but I think Dr. John needs to put some graduate students on this theory stat. As always love your discussions.
Alicia Walker
2022-01-14 20:01:30 +0000 UTCI was struck by the certainty and arrogance of the daughters. I guess this is because of the rigidity?
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-14 18:13:52 +0000 UTCThis makes me wonder if Chad was doing this same sort of gaslighting to Tammy, maybe for years. If memory serves, he had been prophesying her imminent demise for awhile, even before meeting Lori. If Tammy had any ideas that opposed or deviated in any way from Chad’s, I can see Chad “correcting” her with the same soft-spoken abuse. Tammy clearly didn’t measure up to his ideal. By extension, looking at Hannah’s support of her father’s vile abuse in the name of some absurd perfection, I wonder if Emma’s alliance with her father in the face of overwhelming evidence of his part in Tammy’s death is rooted in the same gaslighting. Hannah wins for Despicable Person of the Year. James makes me wish I believed in Hell, he certainly is one of the more deserving residents.
Kate FitzGerald
2022-01-14 17:57:53 +0000 UTCThank you for answering my rambling question! 😄 Confirmation bias makes a lot of sense. As does belief. It's hard for me to see it, but that does help me to better understand. Thanks also for asking how someone like Hannah was created, as it were. I had the same curiosity. As John says, Leslie bringing in the outside world seems to be what was really a threat to the family. Not Leslie herself, or "evil spirits." It seems the only way she could possibly have remained as James' spouse is by being totally subservient to him, and by maintaining complete compliance to his rules and systems. What an impossible way to live! And yet Hannah, it seems, did just that. She clearly idolizes her father. I can't imagine having a spouse who demanded that I basically idolize them. As for chocolate.... We have a running joke in our family. I like things like little Heath bars, Reese's cups, KitKats, etc. John, not so much. He likes Lindt truffles, Dove hearts, etc. Me, not so much. Jo likes both. If Jo writes "candy" on the grocery list, John will say or write "*chocolate*" — because what ~I~ like is candy, but what ~John~ likes is chocolate. 😂 😂😂
Julie Holden
2022-01-14 17:51:40 +0000 UTCAnna's book is so good!! I listened to it on Audible. I think it might be one of their free titles! She reads it herself. It's excellent.
Julie Holden
2022-01-14 15:59:51 +0000 UTCHannah seems to have a lot of anger towards her Mother. As she is accusing her Mother of anger, her voice is shaking with it.
Jean Georgitso
2022-01-14 15:43:46 +0000 UTCI think he could easily snap to stop any wife of his & 10 kids, he eould have gone to any extreme in rage. A condescending arrogant controlling man.. I say the wife should have smashed that caramel corn right into his pie hole & walk out....
Kathleen Suter
2022-01-14 15:11:21 +0000 UTCI know John diesnt think he ranks ith Chad Dimbell but I ask the question- Just how far would this guy go if he thought he REALLY list total control of his wife or kids????
Kathleen Suter
2022-01-14 15:08:49 +0000 UTCFamily Cult led by a man consumed with Control.
Kathleen Suter
2022-01-14 15:07:20 +0000 UTCO....M.....G...
Kathleen Suter
2022-01-14 15:06:45 +0000 UTCHe is a hypocrite. A seminary teacher and BYU teacher? I wonder how many young lives he has hurt. Gaslighting!
Kim Chapman
2022-01-14 14:13:45 +0000 UTCHannah is horrible. She is angry and demeaning.
Kim Chapman
2022-01-14 14:04:40 +0000 UTCDr John, Thank you for explaining the dynamics that you hear in this family exchange. I couldn’t get past my feelings to dissect it, making it through only about 7 minutes of the recording. I am reading Anna Lebaron’s book right now and I am amazed by the poverty and abuse that these women and children endured for the “Kingdom of Joseph Smith” or whomever the current prophet is. I want you to delve into the TV show Sister Wives, another show I cannot watch. I cannot wrap my head around polygamy. I say let’s have a snickers and some popcorn and watch an episode😂
Tamara Wakeman Sukohl
2022-01-14 13:45:16 +0000 UTCWhile I realize that this is largely a problem of the patriarchal family, what are Dr. John's thoughts on parental alienation? It seems to me that these 2 girls, Hannah & Lea may have been taught starting at an early age that if you agree with dad against mom, you get kudos from dad. If you don't agree with dad, either affection is withheld, or the child is down right chastised for this. Also, I'd love to tell them MY take on the 10 commandments, in particular "Honor thy mother & they father" I'm wondering if God meant "Honor thy mother." but Moses might've thrown a fit about that so God said "Fine, & thy father...whatever!" ;)
Traci Schuller
2022-01-14 13:44:37 +0000 UTCThat guy is disgusting and his daughters are following in his footsteps. My question is who recorded this and why was it recorded? I could see if the mom recorded it. I would hope that the daughters would be mortified if they knew the general public was listening to it, but sadly they probably wouldn’t be.
Tracy Warberg Holliday
2022-01-14 11:48:50 +0000 UTCDr. John and Lauren, you are going to find yourselves on the “dark spectrum” dark level:8675309. Look out Oprah here we come!
TJ
2022-01-14 06:46:48 +0000 UTCI am no Dr. John, but I think the liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit, is maybe in this “father’s”pants.
TJ
2022-01-14 06:11:42 +0000 UTCHannah’s “huh” at the end of each sentence sounds snide and condescending
Debi
2022-01-14 05:56:14 +0000 UTCOh my goodness…this was so sad and you two really helped me understand human nature. Very interesting podcast. Thank you.
Laura Pearson
2022-01-14 05:48:02 +0000 UTCGaslighting!
Debi
2022-01-14 05:42:16 +0000 UTCHis voice reminds me of Warren Jeff’s’
Debi
2022-01-14 05:41:58 +0000 UTCThat guy is awful.
Jean van Asperen
2022-01-14 05:30:01 +0000 UTC
