Mushoku Tensei S2 Episode 24
Added 2024-07-03 17:01:47 +0000 UTCComments
I'd like to preface that I enjoy hearing your takes on most of the issues at hand in Mushoku Tensei. Also, understanding why characters make decisions, isn't the same as agreeing with the decisions made by characters. I'd like to break down some motivations and give a little context to some misunderstood aspects of this episode. Some people assume that because Roxy told Rudy that she took advantage of him, that the motivation and action were solely because of her selfish desires. Ulterior motives were present, yes, but the main purpose of sex was to pull Rudy out of a death spiral. He hadn't eaten in a week and barely drank enough to stay alive. The whole group got together and talked about how they would save Rudy from this. Elinalise expressed how she had rescued many adventures from grief using sex. If you talked to a psychologist, they'd be first to tell you that sex is often used for and is quite successful at helping people who are grieving. Rudy wasn't lying, Roxy saved him. I don't disagree with the argument that there might've been another, better way to pull Rudy out of it. This world is a medieval setting, and the characters believe psychological issues to be curses. The only thing they could think of to save him was sex, which did succeed, even if it was morally wrong. Next, I understand the initial anger about having the discussion with the whole family present. Rudy has only ever experienced this type of situation once, during his childhood, when Lilia let the entire family know at the dinner table that she was pregnant. Zenith, then had the discussion about Lilia with everyone still in the room. This included Rudy, who was 5 or 6 at the time, while Norn and Aisha are 11 or 12. I don't recall too many people being as angry with Zenith or Lilia for talking about this with Rudy present. They even allowed him to influence the decisions made. Adding a person into the household was a discussion for the whole family. Now onto another issue, you and many others have hard internalized Rudy's thoughts on his "promise" to Sylphy. He didn't say what most think he did, and even Rudy thinks he promised something that he didn't. The dialogue in the episode was S-"If, um, I can't manage to have kids, you could always get a concubine." R-"I'll do no such thing. What I want isn't children, it's the fruit of love with someone I cherish. I love you, Sylphy." His promise, in Sylphy's eyes is not that he would only love her and that he'd stay faithful. It was that he wouldn't take a concubine to have kids and that he only wants the fruit of love with someone he cherishes. Him taking another "wife", especially Roxy, isn't at odds with that statement from Sylphy's perspective. Internally, Rudy turns this conversation into a stay faithful promise. At the time, he didn't even think he could love someone else. This does mean he broke a promise to himself and he should feel bad for that, but that doesn't actually involve Sylphy in the same way Rudy or most watchers believe. Lastly, we saw plenty more of Sylphy's perspective than anyone noticed. First some context. Sylphy's main worry was that someone better than her would come along, and Rudy would leave her for the better option. With that, when Rudy says he'd like to invite Roxy into "our" home as his "second" wife we see her jaw drop a bit. She was surprised/relieved that he wanted to add Roxy to their home, not leave or replace her for Roxy. Next, he describes how he was in a death spiral and that Roxy saved him from it. Roxy was surprised that he realized this. Remember, she tried to make him blame her for everything by saying she did it for her own selfish gain, rather than tell him the more nuanced reason. You then see Sylphy's eyes widen. This internalizes to Sylphy that Roxy saved Rudy when she couldn't be there for him. When Sylphy stops Roxy from walking off she mentions that her jealousy is gone now that she knows the "Only mage he looks up too" is just another girl like her, not a perfect being Sylphy could never come close to. Sylphy also mentions that if she was in Roxy's place, she would've done the same thing Roxy did. Even if it meant hurting Rudy's wife, Sylphy would have prioritized saving his life over all else. And finally she says she welcomes Roxy and that they should support Rudy together. This relates back to how Roxy saved Rudy when Sylphy couldn't be there. Now she's welcoming Roxy to help take care of Rudy's well-being, to cover for any shortcomings there might be. Whether it's physical safety, emotional connection, sexual needs, or any other support. I'd be happy if any of my explanations gave you a new perspective.
Paul
2024-07-28 20:06:57 +0000 UTCConcerning why the sisters were there for the conversation, I think it's important to point out that when Paul's infidelity was revealed they had a family meeting, which included Rudy, this may be the reason Rudy had them there as they more than Lilia and zenith are directly part of the household, so that is how Rudy would likely think this conversation should take place.
Joshua Gilbert
2024-07-22 15:44:02 +0000 UTCSteph and wes. I doubt the anime will get into the jealousy between the wifes because they both do but it's not about spending time it's on what each other mean to Rudy. They also have squabbles in the novels but it's always from 1 of the wives perspective and never from Rudy's that's because they agreed to have their squabbles out of ear shot and sight from Rudy
Zoroark
2024-07-21 18:51:02 +0000 UTCOnly other show I can think of that you guys watched that had polygamy was demon slayer with tengen and his 3 wives lmao
Gabby Alonzo
2024-07-07 09:48:25 +0000 UTCWhy give hints? Why are people always so determined to slip in spoilers. Don't you want to see a genuine reaction?
Keith Merrington
2024-07-04 19:07:27 +0000 UTCTo address the original comment, while Sylphie is deeply in love with Rudy, she absolutely is not willing to accept anything he does for only a sliver of his affection. Her boundaries for what is acceptable and what is not will be made clear in the next season. You are correct with Roxy but it isn't just her guilt that leads her to accept this state of affairs. She has an inferiority complex due to Rudy overshadowing her with his magic, her being unable to communicate with anyone in her hometown and the fact that everyone she meets treats her like a child when she first meets them because of how she looks. To address 404._nickk's comment, I agree that Sylphie's reaction to this situation is not a normal reaction that most women from our world would have, but most women from our world have not grown up in the society that she has or experienced the things that she has. First, Sylphie does display jealousy and envy at multiple points this season. Such as when Rudy meets Nanahoshi, when she sees him being playful with Pursena and even in this very episode she says that she was jealous of Roxy until she met her. The reason she is initially jealous of Roxy is because Rudy has built her up to be this untouchable superhuman and Sylphie thinks that she will never be able to measure up to her. Sylphie is initially scared that Rudy would leave her for Roxy but once she sees that Roxy isn't a deity, and is instead just a girl who loves Rudy just like she does, a lot of her jealously falls away as she is no longer scared of losing Rudy. You're doing what I have seen tons of people do, which is to treat Sylphie as if she is this perfectly adjusted person who has led a normal life. Sylphie is not normal, even for the world of Mushoku Tensei. She has had a very tumultuous life, starting with being badly bullied until she met Rudy, then Rudy was taken away from her which has given her abandonment issues which were then futher exacerbated by the displacement incident which killed both of her parents and dropped her into the royal palace, which is full of death and debauchery, at the age of 10. Not only this but, she has been aware that she probably won't have Rudy all to herself forever since she was very young due to her close contact with Rudy's family, her time in the Asuran royal palace and her understanding Rudy better than he does. Whilst she is okay with Rudy having other wives it is also true that Rudy cheated on her. She is not okay with cheating but, given the circumstances of Paul's death and his resulting depression and starvation, which Roxy was able to pull him out of, she is willing to make an exception in this instance. As well as all of these reasons, she isn't mad at Roxy because she believes that in Roxy's position she would do exactly the same thing and, because of what Roxy did, her husband is alive and made it back home to her. Also, if you had actually read what the author has written then you would know that it is very much OBJECTIVELY untrue that Rifujin doesn't delve deeper into their polygamous relationship in the volume that this episode was adapted from and further into the series. Also, saying he is a misogynist who wants to have a wife who will ignore her feelings for his sake is insane given you know nothing about him. Additionally, Sylphie putting her own feelings to the side has never been just for Rudy and it is not seen as a positive trait by those around her. She has already done this in the anime with Ariel. Rudy specifically comments on this multiple times and says that he wishes she would speak her mind more. Sylphy and Rudy have only been a couple for about a year and Rudy was in Begaritt for about 6 months of that time. We are only on volume 12 of the LN in the anime and there are 26 volumes. Do you seriously think that their relationship isn't going to be explored at all in the next 14 volumes? Finally, even ignoring all of that, there absolutely are tons of women and men out there that will stay with their partner who has cheated on them.
Garvi
2024-07-04 19:04:41 +0000 UTCSteph: "I've never seen Sylphy angry before" Sylphy got very angry and attacked Nanahoshi when she heard that she was the cause of the mana disaster. Sylphy also attacked Paul when Rudy was shipped off to tutor Eris (although we didn't actually see that, it was mentioned in the anime).
Keith Merrington
2024-07-04 18:59:39 +0000 UTCPersonally, I have seen real women like that. There are many women like that to be honest. It’s very psychological if you think about it. Syphie’s life was parents fighting in the house and everyone bullying her outside. Every day was like that until Rudeus came along. Taught her how to be her own person and defend herself. Every single good thing in her life she owes to Rudy. If she wasn’t strong enough she’d have died from falling in the teleportation incident and even if she survived she wouldn’t have been as good of a bodyguard if Rudy didn’t train her. If she wasn’t, Ariel wouldn’t have paid her any attention. She might think that if he gave me all this, why not let him have another wife? As for jealousy, you wouldn’t think your life was over if your two friends went out without you. Sure, you’d be irritated, but you’ll get over it easily. In polygamy, there isn’t the rigid mindset of “he only loves me”. It’s more like “he loves her more, but he still loves me too”. Some people might not take it, but Roxy and Sylphie’s mindsets are hyper focused on Rudy. As long as he loves them, they’re okay with anything.
Haze Falon
2024-07-04 16:20:20 +0000 UTCI think it makes sense that Sylphie is like this because of how their society sees marriage and relationships. As they talk about after the episode, it makes sense that due to the culture that sylphie was around, before and after the mana disaster, the concept of polygamy would be so normalized that feeling jealous probably wouldn't cross her mind, especially since it seemed so fair and even in greyrat's household. In our culture, the idea of jealousy due to a polygamous relationship seems only natural, but in places where polygamy is normalized and considered natural, it would be seen as weird to be jealous of your partner spending time with another person.
Lake.
2024-07-04 11:27:21 +0000 UTCI second this!
Weston Lowry
2024-07-04 06:56:36 +0000 UTCim pretty sure they are aware of the fact that shes madly in love with rudy, as wes did mention it, so i think the point of their criticism is to go even deeper than that to question WHY shes that way. because lets be honest, like steph said no human woman is like that. people have emotions and will naturally have feelings of envy or jealousy when put in a situation such as this. male OR female. its a very valid criticism as it IS objectively obvious that the author either truly doesnt know how women work OR is (for the sake of keeping the story going in a linear fashion) purposely not delving deep into the intrapersonal aspects of a polyamorous relationship. not to mention, japan is a more misogynistic country than the us for example so the creation of sylphies "perfect wife" character that will sideline her personal feelings (if she even has any) for the sake of rudy is something he probably wants / sees as a perfect woman/wife.
redd
2024-07-04 03:38:49 +0000 UTCit wasnt just sex.... Rudy knew he loved roxy at that moment. Sooo yes, love does cure depression.
Cain Olivares
2024-07-04 03:19:00 +0000 UTCThere is some truth in what you say, but you're ignoring one fatal point. Sylphie is insanely in love with Rudy. She'd be willing to slave her life away for even the lowest level of Rudy's heart. Naturally, if Rudy even loves her slightly, she's fully okay with anything he does. In Roxy's case, she feels intense guilt towards Sylphie which creates an environment of passiveness that makes both women feel like they're treading on a glass flooring. Imagine someone like Sara or Eris in that relationship. Women with their intense personality types would throw the whole dynamic into a spin. It's just their personality type. I feel like Roxy would be the highly academic and trusting mother that expects her children to act like adults while Sylphie would be the doting mother that will always treat her children like babies. These soft personality types wouldn't naturally clash, especially if they're willing to compromise on the basis of doing it for Rudy.
Haze Falon
2024-07-04 01:02:51 +0000 UTCI feel like the author was adamant on the marriages happening, but they had to point out the issues. If Sylphie was the voice of resistance it would throw doubt into the marriage going forward no matter what. If Norn is the voice of resistance Sylphie looks like a human doormat. Everything Norn said is common sense, she's correct - but it keeps the marriage dynamic more intact going forward. It's a pro's vs cons situation where they can address all the issues upfront with some sort of intended outcome
Loro Lukic
2024-07-04 00:18:45 +0000 UTCI also wanted to say how Rudy handled the conversation was fine for this world. Because when Lilia said she was pregnant paul was forced to come out and admit it. Rudy wanted to be upfront and honest so it didn't look like he was hiding anything
DocGreen
2024-07-04 00:04:17 +0000 UTCYeah, the author full on forced this in my mind and that was a terrible way to break this news.
PearseNation
2024-07-04 00:01:12 +0000 UTCIn novel they addressed that Rudy would wait until sylphy gave birth to have sex with either of them. In the next volume in which would be s3 they discussed who sleeping with who on what days. But even the LN kinda glossed over it. Also Roxy took a smaller room because that's what she prefers. Norn and Rudy practicing was anime original. That whole conversation actually took place inside the house
DocGreen
2024-07-03 23:59:01 +0000 UTCI think that critique of the author rang true, to me it feels like the author went backwards, he wanted Rudy to have multiple wives, but also wanted to make it believable enough, so he made sylphy be a cardboard cutout of a "perfect wife"(you can imagine what that entails in a society as misogynistic as japan). This for me made her character feel extremely shallow, almost like a supporting role to the other women in his life
The Egg Unhatching
2024-07-03 23:19:07 +0000 UTChttps://x.com/psyculturists/status/1807368258158522414 for people didn't understand why sex cured him or people thinking sex is not a cure to that, twitter post of our favorite psy
Wolfange
2024-07-03 23:00:36 +0000 UTCIt should also be noted that what made Rudy go through his depression wasn't the sex itself but the conversation he had with Roxy after. When he tells her in a very roundabout way about his dead parents on Earth, her answer that “there’s nothing to be done and that all he can do is cherish the family he has in front of him" is what makes him get out of bed and decide to go home. The author has depicted multiple times when sex is the cause of issues rather than the solution (when he does it with Eris and Sarah)
Ancient
2024-07-03 22:10:59 +0000 UTCDamn ep. 23 really filtered me out. Damn
Dale Tucker
2024-07-03 21:44:56 +0000 UTCTbf apart from Rudy not being next to Sylphie while explaining, I think he handled it perfectly. He did not want to hide it from the rest just for them to find out how Zenith found out Lilia’s case. That’d make him more of a scum. I watched this specific reaction for 5 other YouTubers and they all were impressed by how it was written. But your guy’s criticism is valid. But one thing is biased in your criticism and that is even in this fantasy world you especially Steph is not ready to accept polygamy. (Again in this fantasy world)
Md Sheam Bin Sayhid
2024-07-03 21:35:38 +0000 UTCJust a point on Norn and Aisha being in the room. I believe the LN justified it with Rudy wanting all of the "immediate" family present. Kind of like how you mentioned with room mates, the inclusion of Roxy will affect the current family. I think the authorial reason for including them is to give a voice to the viewer/reader who is angry at Rudy and Roxy. Norn the "normal one" is the perspective that objects and yells at both of them. This also gives Sylphie time to process things, have the reassurance that someone is angry on her behalf and then get the final word in on who is or is not included in her household. At least that is my theory on the presentation. That all said, I have largely always thought the Roxy romance was a bit speedy and could have used more time in the oven. Great reaction!
Paul Matson
2024-07-03 21:03:07 +0000 UTCWhat a ride. Always love y’all’s depth of analysis on Mushoku Tensei considering how controversial the series can be. I believe part 2 of the next season will probably cover what many fans consider to be the best arc of the entire series so super hype to see you guys experience it as well!
Crimson
2024-07-03 20:54:27 +0000 UTCYep. At this point, Rudeus is pretty close to 17.
GTB
2024-07-03 20:42:52 +0000 UTCI'm genuinely impressed by how open-minded and critical the both of you are.
Zen Nathan
2024-07-03 20:21:16 +0000 UTCWhether S3 goes into it or not, just remember that in the book, Sylphie does a lot of work behind the scenes to keep the household happy. She even holds wife meetings to talk about issues and times and all that stuff. Sylphie (at first unofficially and later officially) assumes the roll of "House mom"
Cion Distan
2024-07-03 20:06:24 +0000 UTCLastly Succession was him becoming the leader of the family taking Paul's place.
Krimsonwulf
2024-07-03 19:25:31 +0000 UTCThere may be more about it next season, but Sylphy and Roxy do have private meetings that Rudy is not privy to. Next season we will see how they live together and how well it does or doesn't go. Rudy has lucked out big time because Sylphy is not only accepting of Polygamy, she genuinely wants things to go well for everyone involved and does her best to ensure that they do.
TitanMachine
2024-07-03 19:06:13 +0000 UTCYeah, the Royal Capital is a hotbed of depravity. Horny Rudy and his polyamory are vanilla and wholesome compared to what Sylphy witnessed/heard about while she was there.
TitanMachine
2024-07-03 19:04:20 +0000 UTCThe author made sex the option as Elinalise had used it successfully in the past with depressed adventurers to get them back on their feet. In the LN there was a whole discussion on what could be done to save Rudy. People forget that none of them are therapist, none of them have any training, and any attempt to reach him had failed. He was not in the mental state to be able to listen. Was sex the best option, no, was sex the best option for their situation, most likely as Rudy was on deaths door and they were grasping at straws. Also Rudy's reaction to Pauls death was so drastically different as he actually saw him die and was at least in his mind the reason for his death. It's really no surprise that it would hit him harder then Norn despite her having spent more time with him.
Krimsonwulf
2024-07-03 19:03:04 +0000 UTCSo when Man god said he would regret going to begerate it was assuming that he would be going the long way which would take years. Man god can not see what dragon god does and those around him seem to be exempt from his vision as well so he would have no way of knowing Rudy would know about the teleportation circles. Should Rudy have gone the long way Sylphie would have been alone with Aisha during the birthing process as the doctor was unable to come due to weather i believe been a min. which it is assumed would have lead to the death of either sylphie the child or both which was the regret mentioned. The introduction of the teleportation circles circumvented such tho.
Krimsonwulf
2024-07-03 18:41:30 +0000 UTCAbout the relationship beteween rudeus, sylphy and roxy, if the anime do a good job and adapt the light novel correctly, you will see the construction of a polygamy relationship, it doesn't just work instantly if it's what you are worried about. Also one exemple of polygamy that a lot of people forget is tengen and his wives in demon slayer, but it's not really comparable because in this case we only see the result and not the construction and the build up.
Metatempo
2024-07-03 18:35:05 +0000 UTChmmm, never mind i got my time line messed up
anixxander
2024-07-03 18:24:40 +0000 UTCrudeus ? he is 17
Wolfange
2024-07-03 18:17:40 +0000 UTCi think he is 20-22 years old here
anixxander
2024-07-03 18:11:32 +0000 UTC**SPOILER** Yes, this could be seen as a threat rather than a warning.
Luiz Henrique Wrubleski
2024-07-03 18:11:09 +0000 UTCI doubt they'll dive into the nitty gritty of polygamy next season, but it is explored in the light novels with Roxy and Sylphie discussing dividing up the time and things along those lines. It is a bit of a shame, but I imagine they'll have their sights focused elsewhere and not have the time to dive deeper
Ryan Gardner
2024-07-03 18:09:29 +0000 UTCNot joking, he is religious, he just married his goddess, he takes that worship seriously
Șerban Brutaru
2024-07-03 18:06:26 +0000 UTC***MINOR SPOILER*** Maaan, the next season gonna be wild. If I remember correctly from the light novel, we'll get a massive lore dump after a couple of slice of life episodes. I really hope we get to the conclusion of turning point 4 in the next season. Its gotta be peak anime.
Luiz Henrique Wrubleski
2024-07-03 18:04:24 +0000 UTCRegarding the conversation about sex and healing: Psyculturist, a psychologist who also follows Mushoku Tensei, did a whole write up on it in regards to episode 23. It's a good read and you can find it here: https://twitter.com/psyculturists/status/1807368258158522414
wyggles
2024-07-03 17:59:13 +0000 UTCIt’s not really a spoiler since you guys pretty much figured it out, but the man god lied to Rudy about him regretting something. As to why, it’ll be explained next season.
Eric
2024-07-03 17:53:13 +0000 UTCYeah, logically Rudy and Sylphie should have had that conversation in private. But then there wouldn't have been any push-back and seemed too easy. Narratively he needed to argue with someone and Norn was the only one that would do it. Yeah it's a dumb thing he did but we also have to remember they are still teens, and Rudy routinely doesn't think things through. The real takeaway is that Sylphie is apparently infinitely forgiving and Rudy probably doesn't deserve her. Also no, they aren't glossing over how the relationship will work. They just didn't have time right now. It'll get addressed.
wyggles
2024-07-03 17:51:28 +0000 UTCYall ain't ready for what's next couple seasons, watch for hitogami carefully
Perry-amos Hepburn
2024-07-03 17:48:29 +0000 UTCWhat Sylphie saw in Asuran palace, I think made her immune to many things.
Y M K
2024-07-03 17:47:25 +0000 UTCWaited for you guys to upload so i could watch it with you!! also you guys should totally do re zero next 💯
luar0000
2024-07-03 17:06:34 +0000 UTC
