DK NEWS AFTERSHOW 0209

Space Sweepers: I watched this in Korean with English subs and agree with almost all of Danny's comments. After 2h 16m, I felt that the overall story about the nanite girl was good, but I had mixed feelings about the execution. The crew reminded me a lot of Firefly, which is fine. The attachments formed between the Victory crew and Dorothy were contrived. They should have left it at just recognizing that Dorothy was important to keep safe for the Earth's sake. The production needs to work on the foreign language transitions, perhaps get some tips from Tarantino movies on how to make it smoother. And, for $21.2 million USD, they should have been able to do a little better with the props and scenes. On the upside, the Korean cast was excellent. The movie is fine for passing the time. Maybe my expectations were too high? I read news that there's a sequel, so maybe that's why they were playing it safe. First impression of the Taegukgi Marvel hero: without more context, he appears to be a completely gratuitous character. There is a definite likeness to the Pepsi trademark.

Melodie Y.

China and Kpop/Cpop: No one denies that hip-hop was imported into the Korean music scene. I understand what David is trying to get at about how it has been fused (https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/a-brief-history-of-korean-hip-hop.html). [I think what David was trying to say is that adding corn to bibimbap does not make it any less a Korean dish.] Anyway, if Kpop is defined as a genre like hip-hop is a genre, then just like how hip-hop has been adapted to the Korean music scene, Kpop can be adapted to the Chinese music scene, eventually becoming Cpop. That is just fusion and evolution. Whether they are successful is a different story. Well, Kpop by its name will always be Korean pop. When you were asking about Cpop, were you specifically referring to Chinese idol groups? I used to listen to Canto-pop and Mando-pop (all solo artists) years ago, but they are not promoting in the U.S. in recent years. Whereas promoting idol groups is an economic imperative in S. Korea, that is not the case in China so the development and awareness will be different. Chinese idol groups might eventually get there, as long as they don't trigger the censors. LOL, you might be interested in this news article: https://radiichina.com/the-government-wants-to-protect-chinese-teens-from-talent-shows-and-the-fan-economy/ As far as LSM's prediction about China being the future of Kpop, I would not be surprised if he was currying favor with China. SM is a business and will do what it needs to do to survive. China does have a large consumer market, but I am not sure how many people actually consume Kpop (vs Kdrama) or how influential China is in the Asian vs non-Asian entertainment market. In any case, sponsors and consumers will speak with their wallets.

Melodie Y.

It would have been really cool if it was a heist movie, I'm thinking about Money Heist (I'm Spanish) and it was very entertaining, worked extremely well internationally and helped to raise the attention towards Spanish quality fiction. A lost opportunity sadly.

Ghettoblaster

Space Sweepers was awesome. I would endorse a sequel and/or series. No to pop going to China

Mary Freeman

Great point about appropriation - only the custodians and creators of that culture can truly determine what appropriation is and what is offensive. The issue is that sometimes K-Pop artists venture into Hip-Hop with little knowledge (or regard) for Black American culture and when they do so it is right to call that behaviour out. Why keep quiet about it if it’s your culture? Speaking up, correcting them etc. creates a learning moment for those who genuinely meant no offence and for those who meant harm it’s a way to hold them accountable. I think by and large idols/Koreans know that Hip-Hop comes with from Black America the same way they know that Latin music comes from South America (I mean they certainly can’t say it’s traditional Korean music lol). However, knowing is one thing and being respectful/mindful is another. The onus is on idols and their creative team to be respectful to cultures they draw from; whether that pertains to hair as you’ve pointed or even the use of religious deities etc. (BP had an issue with this but it was rectified pretty quickly). Eminem in his song “Without Me” blatantly acknowledged that Hip-Hop came from Black America; “I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley To do black music so selfishly And use it to get myself wealthy.” - Eminem. It’s the same way most of us have an intrinsic understanding that the music/rhythms/style of dance we see in Bollywood was cultivated by Indians. Or that reggae, dancehall and calypso is Caribbean, or that Afrobeats is African. To be even more specific genres like Zouk (Brazilian) genres like Kwaito (South African) have distinct sounds which are dictated by the people belonging to that culture. When people try and deny the influence of Hip-Hop on K-Pop it’s slightly disingenuous in my opinion, like I stated every group - Girl/Boy groups always has a rapper. The inclusion of a rapper in virtually every group is a testament to how often Hip-Hop is used in K-Pop. A show like “Show Me The Money” is an even more stark example of Black American culture being featured in K-Music at large. In that show they even use the Cypher/Battle and rap and methods created by Black American artists. Whether you rap in French, Korean or any other language for that matter it doesn’t negate the fact the custodians of Rap and Hip-Hop culture is Black America.

Fransisca

wow, you’re cool lol. yes, k-pop is different just like any other music genre. however, it’s influenced by hiphop and black american culture. obviously i don’t speak for all black americans, but denying that influence is part of the problem we have w/ kpop and that’s where cultural appropriation comes into play. to say cultural appropriation is a grey area is insulting to that culture. no one outside of that culture can truly understand how that feels b/c it’s specific to that culture. as black americans we’ve had so much taken away from us, that’s one of the reasons we’re protective of our culture. what was once known to us can easily become someone else’s b/c our voices are often muffled and we continue to be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to other races. for example, when kim kardashian got what’s known in the black community’s “box braids” and renamed them “boxer braids” and the clan started wearing corn rolls, white americans loved it and started wearing them b/c it was a “new” hairstyle that they’ve “never seen before”, but we got called ghetto and some of us couldn’t wear them to school. braids have been apart of our culture for generations. i’m ranting. . i just think idols especially shouldn’t be so ignorant when it comes to whatever culture they take inspiration from. i don’t remember if it was danny or david who said that korean hero wouldn’t have looked that way if there was at least ONE korean in that room, well that’s how we feel when we see idols wearing braids, dreadlocks, using AAVE, etc etc etc etc.

Shae Nicholas

Think it was a great conversation. I kept thinking that the protectiveness they feel over K-Pop given how popular and global is nowadays is probably the same way black Americans have felt about Hip-Hop/black culture and its use (sometimes “misuse” in K-Pop).

Fransisca

Great show guys! Really enjoyed it. K-Pop is a fusion of many genres at this point , it is not solely Hip-Hop but there is no doubt it draws heavily from Hip-Hop. K-Pop references Hip-Hop all the time (Hence most idol groups always have a rapper). We’ve also seen instances in K-Pop when referencing Hip-Hop/black culture goes wrong and when it’s used without knowledge or discretion, resulting in offence. Hip-Hop is Black American culture; they are the pioneers of the genre and dictate how it goes and what’s trendy; from the style of rap delivery to vernacular/slang etc. Then those who use/appreciate the genre follow. Hip-Hop is a global phenomenon and as someone who consumed it for many years I know how intricately it’s linked to Black America. From the days of Grand Master Flash, to what some describe as the Golden years in the 90s/2000s to now. Black American Hip-Hop culture first and foremost became popular amongst themselves, became popular in mainstream America and by proxy the world (i.e South Korea). In the words of Biggie “You never thought that hip hop would take it this far” Lol. When Koop idols do the “dab” or the “whoa”, use trap beats etc. they are directly incorporating black American culture into their performances and I think it’s only fair (and honest) to acknowledge this. Even the performance styles often reference/mimic what Black American rappers do and have done in the States. On Knowing Bros JYP & Rain released a “New Jack Swing” single (they stated the genre themselves). New Jack swing is another genre of music created by black Americans (Teddy Riley is one of the pioneers of that sound.) Just another example of how some Korean artists (even older ones) have drawn from Black America to make music. Didn’t even realise that “crumping” was also popular amongst some Korean artists in the 2000’s till I saw old videos of Yunho from TVXQ doing so Lol. (Crumping is a unique style of dancing created by Black Americans in Los Angeles.) It also serves as another example of K-Pop artists directly reference Black American culture for their performances. Given how big K-pop is at the moment it’s perfectly natural to feel protective over it, but it is important to remember that others might feel the same way about their culture and their music too. Couldn’t help but think this when the discussion about China, C-Pop and protecting K-pop was going on.

Fransisca

Damn I forgot to mention, we have a HO in space now ! I wonder if I'm related ? Steve_Ho !

Steven Pambello

i’m upgrading just to join the chat b/c that conversation about kpop, hip hop, and cultural appropriation... i had a lot to say, so next aftershow i’ll be ready. the point went completely over everyone’s head which sucked. anyway, i’m still glad i joined.

Shae Nicholas

Loving your new Flava boys. And girl.

Debbie McCartney

First let me say that David dressed as a tech CEO is pretty cute. Every great figure in history has had at least one failure - no different for SM. Sure China can be the future of Kpop if you want kpop to go away and become Cpop. Also I watched that movie just for this. I think this was a starting point. There was too much going on for one film. If it was a series it probably would have been better. It sorta reminded me of The Expanse or Battestar Galactica. - 2 really good sci-fi series. There was definitely something to work with but they were trying to cram it all into one movie. Also really liking the new mics. 👍🏻👍🏻

Cathy

My own personal opinion is I don't know what to feel about Lee Soo man's view on AI. I personally have never understood the hype for AI because they are creepy, I always think of Sophia and I don't want to see even more Sophia's and have them take over the planet (don't listen to me, I'm just being paranoid).

ari kelly

Loving the sound with the new mics! Regarding SM and China/AI as the future of Kpop, sure, if you completely sanitize Kpop to death and basically just make it Chinese. Providing nonsense math of if every person had 10 avatars it would be a massive market.. I mean yeah, and if every person bought a physical newspaper, print media would be booming. Saying it doesn't make it so.

Kristine Clasen

As an American, I feel like this is speaking out of school (having opinions that may not be my business), but I think it’s a mistake to put so much Kpop effort into the Chinese market. China would love nothing more than to absorb Korea’s growing soft power and claim it as their own, just like they do with everything else. Yes, the Chinese market is huge, but regular Chinese consumers will still want the Korean product, even if you don’t suck up to their government. I wouldn’t do anything to piss China off, but I also wouldn’t curb Korean pop culture to make it more palatable to China. Why not concentrate on the markets that don’t want to misappropriate Korean culture? Also, if you put too much investment into the Chinese market, you risk having that market stream abruptly cut off at the Chinese government whims. One of your actors or idols might make an innocent comment that China perceives as a slight and next you know, your products are blocked from the country.

Jesi Ryan

I understand what SM means about China there is a giant market that is not accessible right now. Even though K-pop is popular in the US now I don't think it can become as mainstream or as popular as it can in China. They are still trying to make c-pop a thing in China with the produce 101 shows but people still respect k-pop artists because of their training. Lay (EXO) has been pushing c-pop a lot in China and with his new idol training company I think he has the highest possibility of taking over the market if k-pop stays banned in China.

Selenny Fabre

This is my personal review on the dkdk news of today. First, on the movie space sweepers it was really good because i dont like complications while watching a movie and space sweepers made it simple to understand compared to star wars, avengers or justice league. I would pick it over any sci-fi movie in the world. It was the first sci-fi that i understood what was going on. For people who didn't like it, i believe there are the critical thinkers who believe that everything should have theory or background information which its not necessary true. They should try to enjoy blunt taste because its simple. Second, i think koreans need to pray for lee so man's mental state. South korea is the next hollywood. No country in Asia that i know has high productivity and diversity in music, acting and goods compared to S. korea. S.Korea has the biggest global market in asia over china. China is succesful because it has the population to back up their productions. If china had the population of S. korea, i dont think they will be near anywhere they are right now. Sorry for many words but its time South korea make more babies and fill that country and grow their market🙂🙂🙂

Tee Lee

I’m starting to get into the tie wearing for both of y’all but man...I want to reach through the screen to tighten Danny’s and button his collar. 🥴 Try it just once Danny. 🤞🏽 (this is just a note on Danny’s desire for ironic dress. I’m totally here for the t-shirts and snap backs too, swwooooooonnnn)