![Daredevil: Guilty as Sin [2x08] ✦ Full-Length Watchalong Reaction & Review](https://img5.samsuka.com/storage/10/iv/rz/c6f9d9-019e7b8e-bcd9-7cde-9894-6a48c2f8d3ed.jpg)
Daredevil: Guilty as Sin [2x08] ✦ Full-Length Watchalong Reaction & Review
Added 2024-09-14 23:00:06 +0000 UTCOOOOH BOY. To many things. 😂 Looking forward to your comments and thoughts as always. Y'all are the best! [Direct link here.]
✦ KL
Comments
Appreciate you sharing all your thoughts! Had fun reading this! I agree Elektra could definitely do things herself. Matt does enjoy his Daredevil side a looooot haha
kaiielle
2024-09-20 13:28:47 +0000 UTCI’m more of a lurker than a commenter, but I need to get my thoughts out. Firstly, even though I think seasons 1 and 3 are tighter/ overall higher quality, season 2 is still my favorite. Mostly because of the Punisher stuff, but I really like seeing Matt need to deal with this wall he’s put between his two lives. A wall which I believe Matt needs to let down a bit. He tells himself that Karen/Foggy will be safer if they don’t know about his other activities, but that’s just not true. To me it’s more of a rationalization he’s created to allow himself to keep his secret. I mean he definitely believes that to be true, but that’s not reality. They would be safer knowing he’s Daredevil as it would allow them to take adequate measures to protect themselves. This leads to Karen and Matt. Truthfully, even when I first watched this season in what 2017?ish, I never really liked them. It’s not that I don’t like them together, I have always just thought them getting together is a horrible idea considering the situation they’re in. The biggest issue being honesty. Matt refuses to tell Karen the truth, which doesn’t just affect their relationship, it also impacts both of their relationships with Foggy. Matt’s unwillingness to be truthful requires Foggy to lie to Karen which puts tension in both relationships. And Karen clearly doesn’t believe the lies that Foggy or Matt tells her. So, she just has to sit there and deal with both her bosses bs'ing her. This then takes a toll on their working relationship between the three of them. It’s just a dicey situation and Karen deserves better. If Matt was honest with her from the beginning, I would have definitely liked them together. And with how I feel about everything thus far, this leads me to actually liking Elektra….Let me rephrase. I enjoy that Elektra being here makes Matt need to confront how he’s handling his two lives. I think you said in the last episode that Matt is trying to do two things that both require his full attention. I agree, but I think Matt actually could give more priority to the trial because Elektra is capable of handling some things herself. She could have easily visited that professor all on her own. It’s like you have the trial and Matt’s relationship with Foggy/Karen on one side vs his Daredevil duties and relationship with Elektra on the other. He constantly, and I mean constantly, chooses Daredevil stuff over Matt stuff. BUT HE DOESN’T HAVE TO. He could choose the trial and Karen and Foggy, he just won’t. To me this shows that while his brain knows the trial should be his number one priority, his heart wants to go do daredevil stuff. He even tells Elektra during his phone call with her in ep.7 that this is “the most important case we’ve ever handled”. His actions clearly show the opposite though. So, while I think Elektra influences him, he only really needed a tiny push because she’s just nudging him towards what he partially wants to do anyways. More on Elektra. I don’t like Elektra as a person, but I do enjoy her character. She’s rude, a mess, causes chaos, but I enjoy the drama she brings. And I love her style. I also like her trying to be better or at least wanting to be. Being trained by/ working for Stick must be rough knowing the person he is. As to The Hand…I don’t enjoy them much, but there are some interesting moments with them that bring some entertainment. This season is just a bit overstuffed. TLDR: Matt, why can’t you just be honest my man?? Sorry for the long post.
erica
2024-09-20 07:00:13 +0000 UTCNo worries at all - comment when you can! Comparing Daredevil to Spider-Man is interesting and I see it for sure! I didn't pick up on that in the Matt/Karen convo about her going to law school, that's interesting. And I agree with you. Yep, Fisk would definitely be happy about that. Can't help but feel like we may get a Fisk/Punisher team up soon.
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:18:02 +0000 UTCOh interesting!
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:17:07 +0000 UTCIt's nice seeing Matt get stuck in situations he can't really respond well to.
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:17:01 +0000 UTCYeah I don't blame Elektra for ending Matt/Karen, that was totally on Matt. He made choices to prioritize all that and keep it from Karen and Foggy. I saw the courtroom scene as being done for the fictional dramatic effect. I don't mind when things get a bit unrealistic to make it entertaining. I liked that moment for Matt, even though there was some irony/hypocrisy in there. Thanks for clarifying the classified thing!
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:16:21 +0000 UTCI agree with you! And I'm glad you're enjoying these!
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:14:40 +0000 UTCI'm glad she's not supposed to be likeable. 😂 Makes me feel better.
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:14:19 +0000 UTCThe mutual respect between Frank and Karen is gold. I'm here for it all day. Yep Jon really gave it his all in that moment. I'm grateful that Matt and Karen and Foggy are so close, so that they can call each other out and it's not weird. VERY EXCITED FOR MORE FISK LETS GO
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:13:38 +0000 UTCThat was my takeaway too. HE KNOWS.
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:09:52 +0000 UTCHis facial acting is excellent.
kaiielle
2024-09-18 22:09:38 +0000 UTCIm a lil late in commenting, and I need to start commenting on each episode cause i watch them back to back and my thoughts run together lol. Anyway.... IMO Daredevils life is a lot like Spider-mans, neither can seem to manage both sides of their lives very well and always seem to lose the good girl and or friends due to the super hero side of it. Very much on point with Sam Ramimi version of Spider-man with Tobey. In a way when Matt was asking Karen about going to school to be a Lawyer maybe deep down he was wanting her their to help Foggy since he knew he wasn't there for the team. Really didn't see the whole Stick and Electra thing at all that was something else. Then whatever the cop said so Frank would go nuts and goto jail just to meet up with the King Pin was a nice suprise can't wait to see what that is about, other than the fact im sure Kingpin is happy frank took out all the gangs from him lol.
Chris Elkins
2024-09-18 12:22:19 +0000 UTCJust to tie all the various Marvel stuff together a bit... The ninjas Logan was fighting in 'The Wolverine' were meant to be The Hand (or at least they were in the source material).
Phalanx
2024-09-17 06:03:17 +0000 UTCTrying to think of a single thing Matt does this episode that reflects well on him, and honestly not sure there is one. Any thoughts? His "questioning" of Frank is not great - as mentioned by others, he was testifying which should have resulted in an immediate objection from the prosecution (and probably a telling off from the judge). More than that, it feels like he wasn't saying it for the benefit of Frank's case, but more as a justification of his own activities - any relevance to the case was just a bonus. Stick's retort when Matt scoffs about immortality that his Catholic beliefs hinge on that idea is a nice comeback that Matt has no answer to. Matt's denouncement of the "fairy tale" as he calls it following that also seems a bit hypocritical, specifically that Stick's just using a story to cover up the fact that he simply likes beating people up - are you sure you're talking about Stick there Matt?
Sean Ellingham
2024-09-15 14:15:20 +0000 UTCIn case anyone wants to read the citation for the CMOH for Roy Benavidez to a) hear what a BAMF he was b) just know what a CMOH citation is like... https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/roy-p-benavidez
Rat MacKay
2024-09-15 12:42:48 +0000 UTCAnd the hits keep a-coming for Matty. Yep, you were a mission...the basis for your relationship was a lie and you STILL throw away a catch like Karen for it...and, surprise! She's a killer to boot! Some stellar life choices there, bud. Yeah, I said it before, I just can't really bring myself to give enough of a shit about Elektra to even hate her...she's just kinda there. I know some Daredevil fans are all "ooh, I hate her...she broke up Matt and Karen..." Nah. Matt broke up Matt and Karen. He told Elektra how he had moved on and had someone that he really cared for...but then completely neglected to show any of that care pretty much from that moment on. Karen, though...she continues to be da best. Her scenes with Frank are when we get to see Frank...not The Punisher. I also love how she builds Foggy up throughout this season...someone needs to...and then telling Matt off? It's like a little bite or two of something sweet after a very satisfying meal. That whole courtroom scene with Matt pisses me off. I typically don't like criticizing the legal side of things because I'm not a lawyer or anything...but... I'm NOT a lawyer and even I know that it wasn't time for closing arguments and THAT is what Matt was doing. He wasn't questioning a witness, he was monologuing for the jury. In a real court, there's no way the prosecution doesn't object...and there's less than no chance that Reyes wouldn't...I can literally hear her voice "Objection, Your Honor, who's testifying here, the witness or counsel?" Treating the witness as hostile doesn't give him permission to give an impassioned speech to attempt to sway the jury through emotion without evidence. I'm so glad you were as happy to see Clancy as I was the first time through! Although I'm not real sure if it's a good idea in a murder trial to get on the stand and tell everyone about the time the guy on trial for killing 30+ people over the course of a couple of weeks...killed 30+ people in a day. The whole thing about it being classified just means that he wouldn't be able to tell specific dates, times, locations, personnel involved, etc. As detailed as he was, it still wasn't giving any sort of classified information. It's also likely why Frank got the Navy Cross and not the Congressional Medal of Honor. The CMOH is very public...you can go and read the citations for them...where the Navy Cross is less public and those awarded it even have the option of having it be bestowed anonymously. There's stories of it taking multiple tries for some service members to get a CMOH...because some of the facts contained in the citation could have embarrassed the government [I'm thinking of someone like Roy Benavidez...who received his CMOH in 1981 for actions that took place in 1968...but in Cambodia (where the US wasn't supposed to be) instead of Vietnam...when it was submitted the first couple of times, they had disclosed that the events took place in Cambodia...and the application was denied. When they changed the wording to "west of" their base in Vietnam, it got approved...the government couldn't have a public citation claiming that we were in a country we weren't supposed to be in!] Frank going rabid Devil Dog on the stand is always hard for me to watch. It's well-acted...but when you see Karen's reaction, it's like a gut punch to me every stinkin' time. She put in more work on that case than anyone and it is personal for her. Frank's not just some client, she cares...because that's just Karen. Overinvested in everything.
Rat MacKay
2024-09-15 12:17:48 +0000 UTCAgreed...especially since the season starts off with the Punisher being the A story...then gets pushed to the B line for what? Ninjas and exes and Stick, oh my! I legit hate the whole Hand storyline. I once wanted a friend to watch Punisher with me, but knew they needed to be caught up on Frank's backstory first, so I made a season edit where I eliminated the entire Elektra/Hand storyline and THAT made for an entertaining watch.
Rat MacKay
2024-09-15 11:09:04 +0000 UTCAlrighty so, I’ve seen this show many times before but I thought I’d throw my two cents In here. As much as I love the punisher stuff this season, I really don’t enjoy the whole Elektra/hand plot line, It feels very underdeveloped and out of place and it takes away time from Frank’s phenomenal B story, i honestly think that if this season was solely punisher based, it would probably be my favourite season but the hand plot line definitely makes it the weakest season in my eyes, still a good season of television for sure but a very flawed one. Thankfully season 3 is widely regarded as one of the best final seasons in television so I cannot wait to see your reaction to that way later down the line! Really enjoyed these S2 reactions so far, KL (: Your commentary makes those Elektra/hand scenes far more enjoyable!
Sean H
2024-09-15 10:31:58 +0000 UTCOh, a LOT of people did not like Elektra here, but I don't think she's supposed to be likeable here. Most people who did like her, know more about her from comics, I think. She's a hot mess, in the comics also, but they put it front and center in this show. You are definitely not supposed to like her because she's a monkey wrench in the plans at best and a wrecking ball at worst. Started off as a villain in the comics also and her and Matt's relationship has been, let's say tumultuous. They could be soulmates 'cause they're both messed up, in kinda opposite ways. I never read the comics where they first meet, but I'm pretty sure she didn't come on the scene immediately as a disruptor, like here. I think they took the route of her being more sympathetic and then SURPRISE, she's an assassin. Here, they didn't try to do that. We get introduced to her, basically, putting up a front for Matt as the rich socialite, debutante that's reckless and way too confident, so not very likeable. Like all of the characters here, she's complex and who they are and the layers to them get revealed in due time. This is not to say that you will like any given character in the end, just that none of them are as simple as you may think at first.
Thadman
2024-09-15 07:48:47 +0000 UTCNow there's this big Stick in the ass. What's he doing back? LOVE Matt's annoyed look when Stick drinks the tea. That was gold. I love the reality check Frank gets when he realizes those horrible people he killed had families too. And he's just done to someone else what was done to him. And Karen being so gentle with him was such a beautiful moment. She's the one person that supports him and he actually opens up with her. They have mutual respect, it's wonderful. Frank's outburst gave me full-body chills, holy crap the acting was amazing! Good for you, Karen, stand up for yourself! Matt needed to be brought down a peg or two. He has to realize his lying and sneaking around has consequences outside of how badly he gets hurt. His friends suffer too. I love it when people get their ass kicked and then say they can protect themselves lol yep, body full of toxin proves Elektra's just fine solo. Can't help but appreciate the irony of Matt saying the city needed Frank Castle only to be shocked Elektra kills someone. Punisher walking into the prison reminds me of Rorschach's line from Watchmen: "I don't think you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. YOU'RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!" Loved seeing Fisk again. He's definitely one of those villains that I 100% sympathize with and kind of root for in a way. I want him to have happiness but he's a crime lord too so... sticks and stones.
Nathan Jasper, the Artist Formerly Known as Primary
2024-09-15 02:21:31 +0000 UTCAll characters have their flaws and Matt is not immune to that. It is very clear that Matt and Electra relationship is not healthy at all but the issue is a bit more complex. Electra brings out the bad parts of Matt and Matt brings out the good parts of her. She actually stopped when he told her to earlier in the episode which is surprising but that gives him hope for her. My favor part of the episode is the scene of your thumbnail of Frank. He seems to recognizes Matt's voice when he called him Frank like he knows he heard that voice before.
Christopher simeon
2024-09-15 02:14:44 +0000 UTCI love that moment when Frank looks at Matt after be starts calling him Frank. That little pull back and then smirk. It's just so good.
Carl Johnson
2024-09-15 00:11:50 +0000 UTC
