GREASE TRAP: 8 May / TJ DEBATES Scotty and Paul on /non/Voting
Added 2020-05-08 22:53:07 +0000 UTCWe had a really interesting debate on voting that turned our Grease Trap into damn near an episode. Let us know your thoughts on the subject in the comments below.
Comments
Paul: "im never gonna be convinced" thats intellectually dishonest. Tj is honest so he was convinced on this issue.
O
2021-05-18 14:54:53 +0000 UTCNo. Its just the idea that if 2 people can win you choose the better one. The only reason you wouldnt do that is to seem edgy; which is why paul holds his position.
O
2021-05-18 14:39:49 +0000 UTCPaul always wants to act like bernie is a total failure. What a scumbag always attacking bernie.
O
2021-05-18 14:38:34 +0000 UTCPopular uprising is happening right now and is being supressed more under Trump than it would be under Biden. We can pressure Biden to making some reforms through protests, we will get nothing except suppression and reactionary anti-first amendment polices from Trump over the next 4 years
The True Nihilist
2020-06-23 18:41:35 +0000 UTCOr a collapsed state by that point, Florida and other low lying areas will be under water at that point. I think that level of disaster and the likely non response by our government to it will result in massive unrest and just complete economic and social and infrastructure collapse that very well could be the end of America
The True Nihilist
2020-06-23 18:39:45 +0000 UTCPaul's Threego
The True Nihilist
2020-06-23 18:36:08 +0000 UTCwhat did you think after watching?
The True Nihilist
2020-06-23 18:35:24 +0000 UTCI hate the intense stomach ache I get when I admit I agree with this. Such a strange feeling. Utter disappointment and nausea with the state of things.
ProEbola
2020-06-09 03:10:58 +0000 UTCI'm with TJ. If we actually much more overwhelmingly used our vote, along with striking, running for politics and actual ground work effort, the working class would of course dominate. We make up the majority of voters. Even 40 year olds get lefty politics. We're getting there, but you gotta do your part too.
Nicholas
2020-05-14 19:14:39 +0000 UTCI would rather wait 4 more years than have Biden be the dem shoe-in at 2024. Meaning then we will have to wait until 2028, before a better progressive candidate has a chance.
defialpro
2020-05-11 07:25:42 +0000 UTCAwesome episode
10baseballdmo
2020-05-10 18:01:43 +0000 UTCAwesome stuff!
Thomas H.
2020-05-10 13:00:39 +0000 UTCIf we're headed towards a massive collapse thatll lead to a societal overhaul anyways... why not have better healthcare, trans rights, right to abort along the way??? Abstaining from voting is not going to lead to the accelerationist future where the collapse just happens. Of course societies crumble. Of course the system is shit but is there any actual route in which NOT voting leads to POSITIVE CHANGE?? If an FDR figure rose up after some big collapse would paul even get up off his ass an actually vote???
mango raccoon
2020-05-10 02:37:14 +0000 UTCThe lesser of 2 evil argument is the same as Christians saying “isn’t just better to believe if you can’t truly know “ ?
Bo Prince
2020-05-10 01:23:49 +0000 UTCAs TJ said its Mao vs Hitler: 6 million Deaths (Biden, Warhawk, Corrupt) vs ~70-90 Million Deaths(trump - ChristianoFascist, ÜberWarhawk and Even More corrupt) , One of them is argubley less horrible. Sure taking part and voting for any of those two is kinda endorsing them, their party and the whole system, but at the same time, "harm reduction" will help and save millions of lifes.
Moe's
2020-05-10 00:06:57 +0000 UTCLesser of 2 evils... what if 4 more years of trump is arguably less evil than potentially 8 years of biden?
Rob Waters
2020-05-09 21:18:25 +0000 UTCNot voting is only capitulation if you do not also attempt to change society in other ways.
Edvard Lundgren
2020-05-09 16:13:40 +0000 UTCOh boy, imagine the shit show that would be a PaulsEgo vs Vaush voting debate
johncashrocks221
2020-05-09 13:53:01 +0000 UTCThis is not the same people who started the left cant meme thing. The people who did that are national socialist and dont have much problem with socialism as long as it is not exploited by people coming from africa and middle east in europes case and never contribute anything into these social systems. Because thats not hoq you can run a social system when a few get exploited by an increasing number of in this case immigrants The people you are referencing think trump is a kike plant and dont give much shit about typical christianity bullshit conservitism
Adolf Maybach
2020-05-09 11:46:41 +0000 UTCI like when you guys look at Reddit on the Grease Trap
Nick Carroll
2020-05-09 10:20:53 +0000 UTCPaul's approach is based on the hope that after the collapse of the present corrupt state, Utopia magicaly arise from the ashes; but that's not the case, just basing on the million of examples where after the previous power is down a new corruption is born and then it starts over again and again (Pay attention when other countries have the oportunity to write a new constitution, pay attention to the coupes around the world... examples are everywhere). The only way to reach a certain level of prosperity its actually being evolving constantly as a society... and how to do that = participate, argue, think and so on.
Luis Felipe Rico
2020-05-09 08:30:22 +0000 UTCIt seems like Paul's losing weight! Looking great, man!
TeaWrecks
2020-05-09 06:49:03 +0000 UTCIt seems a bit defeatist to me to automatically say the Green Party can't win the election. People don't vote for the Green Party because they can't win, they can't win because people don't vote for them. It's circular logic. The only way to break the two party system and elect a Green Party president is to start voting Green Party.
Doctorseaweed
2020-05-09 05:02:53 +0000 UTCNot voting is actual capitulation. It's better to have some semblance of say in what goes on in your society than to throw your hands in the air and let others decide your fate without you. To not vote is to be fully a slave to a system because you wont even use the means to change it. Im black, and people not voting whether I like the system or not carries a lethal factor to people like me. Paul mentioned the suppression of minority votes without realizing he is throwing away his privilege in have his guaranteed to be counted. Im for revolution but not without some order. Paul's stance kills people like me and put the assurance our rights in jeopardy. I love you Paul,Scotty but you have an extremely privileged position when it comes to voting and your decision comes from vanity.
Nocht
2020-05-09 03:53:49 +0000 UTCThis is a serious question for Paul, I dont mean to sound like I'm trolling or anything. Are you an anarcho-communist Paul? Because alot of your stances seem to point towards that way. One you dont favor voting inside a state held election. Two you call for the abolition of money. Three you favor that people have the ability to hold land in common without it coming from capital. Four you call for the abolition of capital. I'm not saying any of these are bad things I'm just repeating what I've heard you say. I happen to identify as an an-com and agree with pretty much 100 percent with all those things you call for, so just curious as to the response of that. As for the question of voting that is a very dense answer that I'm not really honestly able to [or willing] to answer in a patreon response but I enjoyed the conversation alot, I agreed with Paul and the reasons he gave mostly but have my own reasons as well. The one Ill give just a brevity is that voting in a system controlled by the power of the state and capital is not conducive to change. Rather it leads a candidate like TJ said "harm reduction". And the main disagreement with that, that I understood is that why is that a bad thing. I would say the reason for just going for "harm reduction" doesn't reduce harm in the long run. Picking a candidate that pushes for the status quo, kicks the can a little further down the road. That leads to presidents like Trump. The last point I want to say is the point TJ brought up of "when you guys stay home and don't do anything that changes things alot". I don't see how that a rebuttal of any point. Yeah it doesn't change anything, your vote for third party or lesser of two evils doesn't change anything either so it seems we are stuck in the same boat. I also enjoy TJ used to be firmly against not voting but it took Biden to change that. I'm glad. I realize this was not brief as I thought but I could have gone more in depth. sorry for the long post.
QueenCloie
2020-05-09 03:42:38 +0000 UTCYes, it’s currently out!
PESSIMIST PRODUCTIONS
2020-05-09 01:46:17 +0000 UTCunder a biden presidency the low information bit of the left will go to sleep, and his critics will be seen as fringe by the media, and if his vice president takes over then that will be even worse for their critics. I'm more of the mindset that the more opportunities there are to expose the greed by seeing the worst of it, the better the chances are of a popular uprising to take power.
Repulse
2020-05-09 01:01:06 +0000 UTCUgh, voting TJ is even more insufferable than a joe Biden speech. If you want to see how effective voting is just look at history. Sweeping change never comes from within a system, when empires grow weak a new power rises up and destroys the old causing the incremental change that has lead us to today. You can trace the lineage all the way from the Egyptians to our modern world. As for an American example, FDR instituted the last major reform in American history and it took a global economic collapse and the old world powers being devastated by ww1 to get it done. You might say “ But FDR was elected” but he would have never won without the external events forcing people to re-examine the way America functioned. Not to mention there is no one even close to FDR levels of change on the ballet. It took all of that to get, at the end of the day what amounted to a small change for most everyday people. That is the best you can hope for working within the system. So maybe America will be halfway to the way you want it, by 2350.
Jeffrey Searcy
2020-05-09 00:52:13 +0000 UTCA tease what a tease, a taint what a taint...
nihilgeist
2020-05-09 00:37:49 +0000 UTCPlease upload the silent section as a separate video for non-Patrons
Atticus Omundson
2020-05-09 00:33:13 +0000 UTCwho is this man in the middle and what has he done with Pauls_Ego
Nickalus Kaddo
2020-05-09 00:19:08 +0000 UTCI love the grease trap. More grease trap. Monday/Friday episodes are well researched topics. Flash Fried (for some reason, my favorite) is news stories. The grease trap is the perfect way to round out the content, they're like mini bantersodes. I feel you guys have found a near perfect balance as weekly content goes. I look forward to all three, and watch all of it. Every time.
Danny Kotsybar
2020-05-09 00:04:55 +0000 UTCMhhm, delicious grease
Sondre Knutsen
2020-05-08 23:57:19 +0000 UTCCool but is there an actual episode?
Baba-Mail
2020-05-08 23:00:27 +0000 UTC(I’ve note listened yet)!I’m always happy for long grease traps. Though I feel like this conversation on non voting has already been hashed out. And we have a good idea of everyone’s position. And Paul’s long vague philosophical stance of Non-voting. I enjoy debates so I’ll keep an open mind going into this.
Sightless
2020-05-08 22:59:43 +0000 UTC
