Grease Trap: 31 Jul 2020
Added 2020-07-31 21:52:50 +0000 UTCaudio attached.
Comments
Saagar will level a number of critiques. However, those critiques will never tip him into voting for say, Bernie Sanders. Unless I've missed something, he has not called for voting against Trump or abstaining from supporting Trump. On the other side of the desk, Krystal will critique Biden and put out the message that it's ok to abstain from voting for Biden. They invited Kyle Kulinski on to bolster this point a couple of times (Kyle has waffled on this, to note). With these two observations, we can make the reasonable conclusion that Rising's overall message and advocacy is a net benefit to Trump. That is the critique of Rising that TJ was referencing- not a "vaguely positive Trump snippet".
Brian
2020-08-09 23:38:42 +0000 UTCYou're a dumb idiot
Brendan Pedersen
2020-08-06 01:41:27 +0000 UTCWhat a beautiful dissertation. "These are Rich Elitests pretending to be populous, taking eyeballs away from real populists on either side, and creating a shallow but easy to digest show from it. And that's a massive problem is this is true."
Brendan Pedersen
2020-08-06 01:39:18 +0000 UTCStop perpetuating this falsehood TJ. I watch the Rising and Saagar has been very critical of Trump on various issues, his Covid response, his response to the flailing economy, his campaign strategy, I could go on and on. I don't see how the Rising could be called a pro-Trump show, unless you are so incredibly biased and radicalized, that you interpret every vaguely positive Trump snippet as tacit support of the entire administration.
Maya Balsich
2020-08-03 11:38:49 +0000 UTCPaul, Here is an NRA Ad that targets the people you think we can find common ground with https://mobile.twitter.com/deray/status/880409739015766016 Conservatives eat this shit up they believe it, just watch some right with show talk about leftist, progressive issues. You are waaaay to naive, just because you read about contact theory and that black dude who deconverted 100+ kkk members, you think contact theory can be implemented on a mass scale with 300+ million people. Im pretty sure if the black dude wasn't a famous musician and was just some black dude he would have ended up hanging from a tree. You tend to argue too much from an emotional and narrow minded pov (when tj aksed why leftist should watch a trump supporting show you were too salty to say "no" and instead throw out a retarded "why should they care" as if those trump supporting shows are not part of the problem and devide you ranted about). Also you said it urself the right is rife with anti intellectualism yet your grand arguement is for leftist to engage in an intellectual dicussion with them to shift their view, knowing full well that they will mostly argue in bad faith or deny any evidence you can bring up to prove your point...these people will deny studies and reality as long as it doesnt fit their worldview. On the labour thing, paul Leftist created them, leftist fought and died for them just like we fought and died for the ending of child labour it wan't the fascist, monarchist or conservatives it was leftist so unions are inherently politcal and leftist. You trying to explain a conservative the benefits of collective bargining doesn't work because thats "one step towards communism" in their eyes, even the mix of capitlism and socialism i.e. the nordic model is too extreme to this people.
Moe's
2020-08-03 07:29:59 +0000 UTCi agree with paul actually. but it's an interesting debate for sure.
Memoria
2020-08-02 18:09:03 +0000 UTCHow will there be a labor movement when there is more unemployment than ever in history?
The True Nihilist
2020-08-02 12:27:13 +0000 UTCPinewood Derby is cub scouts, not Indian Guides
The True Nihilist
2020-08-02 11:36:40 +0000 UTCThey forgot william shatner, hes an old fat guy. He's like 88 years old and pretty fat lol.
Max Schwalen
2020-08-02 00:46:50 +0000 UTCI don't really know much about the subject but it seems like the drawbacks of a union would heavily outweigh their benefits in a minimum wage setting. Workers of that skill level are just too easily replaced to bargain effectively, and even if by some miracle they get shit done, you're still paying monthly union dues on very limited pay
JohnnyVoid
2020-08-01 21:47:24 +0000 UTCI really disagree with Paul. You can listen all you want with the people you disagree with but when they're advocating fascist ideas you have no reason to ever work with them. Also Vaush has exclusively said theres no issue working on solutions they both agree on but you cannot act like they have the same goals when they truly don't. All it does it prop them up. Also the whole union being an easy sell thing is entirely wrong. I was in a union in Krogers NOBODY liked it. It was pure hatred towards the union constantly.
Anthony Mickelson
2020-08-01 16:41:32 +0000 UTCCommie Paul at it again
wootdascoot6
2020-08-01 11:56:55 +0000 UTCI’d like to see Paul try to convince a right leaning populist that they have shared goals.
Daniel Callahan
2020-08-01 07:43:51 +0000 UTCThe idea that right and left populism can work together just because they’ve stood in the same picket line is ridiculous. These people are fascists
Daniel Callahan
2020-08-01 07:31:15 +0000 UTCI have a lot to say about Paul's discussion on Vaush & The Unions. So buckle up, this is going to be long. If TJ reads this, feel free to message me on Twitter (Hint: Intersynergy with the Glove). I agree that Vaush is ultimately creating a business in debating anybody. This can be seen as problematic when it comes towards leftist unity. But we all have to remember what these popular platforms are all about. I enjoy the content made by you three and Vaush, but we have to be real for a second about Popular Youtube Content. This website thrives off of Regurgitation, not Creative Expression or Meaningful Discussion. As former hosts of The Drunken Peasants, I hope you all realize that people enjoyed you attacking A Fat Bearded Toothless Loser every week, not enjoyed learning about themselves through engaging personalities online. I don't like this fact, and I know you three don't like this fact, but YouTube is a fandom website, not a creative one. Vaush (for his faults) is just playing the shitty game better than anybody else. Does this excuse everything? No, of course not. I was really harsh on Vaush for going after Peter Coffins Podcast Co-Host AngieSpeaks & calling her a Fake Leftist (a fact that isn't based in reality). But everybody here knows about Vaush, and I bet a few people in this audience have even heard of Angie Speaks. Is it Morally Great? No. But as former hosts of a show where you all mocked a Mentally Ill Woman who was obsessed with Bret Spiner, I think you know that this kind of thrashing content gets new eyeballs. Vaush would only be a smalltime Youtuber if he didn't engage in this Drama. Every time he critiques a Leftist, he gets more fans. That's the game, and nobody is trying to seriously change this game because this game gives comfort & joy to everybody (even though in reality it's mostly pointless). If you want somebody like Vaush to not engage in this behavior, you have to start a movement that changes the nature of Internet Based Video Content. But hey, I'm the Pro-Expansion/Anti-Escapist Media Figure here, not Deep Fat Fried or it's close affiliates. Still love you all, I promise the rest of this post won't be critical of you three moving forward. Now let's discuss what Vaush is able to do with that shitty almost self-defeating system. He has almost uniformly eradicated any leftover pride in the Anti-SJW Movement (which is good news for somebody like myself). TJ obviously was part of this movement, but I think it's safe to say that it was a overall mistake in hindsight (not cause of TJ, cause of Whiney Gamer-Gaters). And it's only good for somebody like Vaush to stomp it away and take back some of it's more likable figureheads (like Shoe, Chris Ray Gun and even TJ to some degree) and move them over to the left. Vaush is also making everybody be more critical of politics as a whole by discussing these topics. One thing I hope most of us can agree on is that the online left is weak & only cares about creating communities of like-minded thinkers (not Lateral Thinkers). Even Kyle Kulinski, who is a self-engaged logical thinker, doesn't help his audience think outside the box. He just reads a fact, explains his opinions of said fact, and moves on. That might be respectable in an Old-Fashioned News Way, but I do believe YouTubers have an obligation to help their fanbases think for themselves. And for all the shitty drama Vaush engages in, we can celebrate the fact that his audience is full of independent thinkers who argue with him constantly. This is mostly because Vaush is always critical of Parasocial Relationships. This is great news because most of his audience is made up of 16-21 Year Olds. People like myself (25) or even older (like Mr. Kirk) only make up a small small percentage of his audience (2% at most). Vaush is giving his audience what they want, and then helping them grow along the way. If that isn't admirable, I don't know what is. Now let's get into Debate Topic Number 1, the Krystal Ball Drama. I actually brought this topic to TJ in a Tweet Message the day Kyle Kulinski made his video (which I think helped inspire TJ to make that original video). So I feel like I have an obligation to explore my frustration with Rising. You see, this show pops up all the time in my feed. It is Youtube's To-Go Show when it comes to Political Discussion. Vaush wasn't the only channel discussing their rise. And while it might be sad that Vaush engages in hyperbole with Kyle Kulinski, he deserves criticism for this. You see, there is a good chance that Krystal Ball is a fraud for the left. A Dave Ruben-esque figure who gives the left what they want to hear without ever helping them find the will-power to change society. Is she smart? Absolutely. And is this all a Conspiracy? In the words of another obnoxious Leftist, OF COURSE. But we have to look at this scenario from the side of the skeptic. So let's look at it this way, from a set of questions. Does The Donald Trump base of The Republican Party Want To further divide the left? The Answer is obviously yes. Has Donald Trump used Bernie Sanders mistreatment as a way to divide the left and get more supporters? The Answer is Crystal Clear (no pun intended). Have The Republicans tried to create programming online that targets critical leftists and make them go against their own interests? Yes, they have. Has Krystal Ball engaged in a lot of shaddy behavior throughout her career? The Answer is an obvious yes. Is Kyle Kulinski good friends with Krystal Ball? The Answer is Yes. Could the Founder of Rising hire somebody who has a shaddy past as a lackey to rip apart the left? The Answer Is Probably Yes (steve bannon did this all the time). Would Krystal Ball engage in this behavior for a good paycheck? Her past speaks volumes, so it's certainly a factor to consider. Does it make sense for Leftists like Vaush to be ultra critical of the situation? Absolutely. Now I know what you are all thinking. Why are you okay with Vaush ripping apart the left but not Krystal. Because at the end of the day, I understand Vaush's motives. Like him or not, this isn't just a job for him. Krystal Ball (unfortunately) is a whole other story. I actually defend Jimmy Dore from these same kind of Critiques, but that's only because Jimmy doesn't hide his intentions either. Intentions matter, and unfortunately for us, nobody knows Krystal Balls true intentions as a leftist. She just likes Populism and Bernie Sanders. WOW, what a winner. This is a problem you can levy at both of these hosts, because Saagar also doesn't show his true intentions. So they come off as nothing more than shallow talking heads for their ideologies. Should Vaush (and likewise TJ) bring this up whenever they critique Rising. I would, that's for certain. But there is a real reason to criticize the show. These are Rich Elitests pretending to be populous, taking eyeballs away from real populists on either side, and creating a shallow but easy to digest show from it. And that's a massive problem is this is true. And for my money, it's far more disgusting for a liar to pose as an ally than a self-described debate lord to be ultra critical of everybody for views. But in the grand scheme of things, none of this matters. What does matter is are we able to work with the Right-Wing of the Country. I think you can engage with people who have voted republican over Social Issues like Abortion or Personal Issues like Taxes. But this Pandemic has also shown the true colors of the Gut-Bucket Conservative (aka, most of them). And lone-and behold, these are nothing more than a herd of trained human beings who take pride in obedience and conformity. I'm not saying those on the left don't engage in similar behavior. But you cannot create any sort of movement, even a labor one, when you have so many people who take pride in being Empty Social Defenders. It isn't a Political Ideology that these Conservatives are obsessed about, it's a mindset that they want us all to follow. I don't have any data, but I can make a clear hypothesis. I think most of these Conservative Thinkers grew up taking pride in their Self-Sacrifical Natures (rather this is through Church, School, Military, etc.) and find it personally disgusting that anybody question these systems that they take pride in. And their honest dream is that everybody shuts up and follows the pre-determined rules, so that they can finally have some peace with their life choices. Anything that goes against this Obedient Nature is a threat to their personality, even one that would help them out. And think about it, while we live in a "Free" Society, these kinds of thinkers are the ones who have historically succeeded. Only Artists and the rare Quirky Genius has the ability to succeed while keeping themselves in tact. So the system congratulates the Self-Sacrifical Persona (I wonder why) which only adds more fuel to this pride in identity. To question anything is an assault to their identity. I think Paul grew up around a lot of Rural Republicans, and they are more open with criticizing the system over the Smug Suburbanite Republican. But don't let this fool you, the Rural Republican will only fight back when they literally have nothing else to lose. And when that day comes, they will be some of the last people to fight back. Deep Down, they only want to keep their worldview of self sacrificial pride. What do you think their guns represent? It isn't a way for them to overthrow the current government. It's a way for them to overthrow any sort of new government that emerges, because they are comfortable with the way it is. So in the long run, no, the left wing can't win with right-wing populists. What we honestly need to do is we need to make everybody (especially the Social Defenders) come to the realization that systems cannot give one purpose or meaning. That they exist to help us in the current moment, but are nothing more than ever-changing rules. How do we do this? I have a few ideas (I'll only share if anybody is curious though). But as long as we give credit & consider the Defensive Mindset, the Republican Party cannot help any cause outside of defending the status quo that existed back in the 50s. Last but not least. I think you are all obsessing over Vaush. I know that he is an exciting up and coming Youtuber who is nice to TJ, but he's just another persona. Vaush is not a part of Deep Fat Fried, and honestly I'm sick of hearing about him here, even though I'm one of his fans. You three and Vaush only relate in Policy Decisions. And unless Vaush becomes a Politician or creates a movement (a real movement, not an internet fanboy movement) I don't see why I have to hear about him on this show. I hear more about Vaush in this Fanbase than I do in his own fanbase, or any fanbase he's criticized. Kyles fans aren't talking about Vaush that much. Peter Coffins Fans only talked about him for a couple of days. You three are falling into the trap of giving him free publicity, which makes no sense because he isn't even an antagonist. He's engaging, but he's just a Smart Youtuber. Sorry for being critical again, I still enjoy your work. But just enjoy him and don't bring him up unless he is in the middle of some serious news. I engaged in this as well, and after today I won't mention Vaush in this fanbase ever again. I hope this gave some insight. It's long-winded and ruined everybodys night, but hey, that's what I'm here for. Enjoy your nights and keep up the great work.
Hypnotic Visionaire
2020-08-01 02:55:44 +0000 UTCGamer Glasses Paul best Paul
Moist Calzone
2020-07-31 23:55:52 +0000 UTCthank you Paul for calling out Vaush on his BS! Even if you don't agree with Kyle Kulinski, calling him a fascist enabler is just insincere.
Matt Roper
2020-07-31 23:47:36 +0000 UTCHoly fuck this is one of the best grease traps ever. I will pay for longer episodes 100%
EVIL PLANET
2020-07-31 23:09:57 +0000 UTCHoly shit the saltiness is real.
Allie2892
2020-07-31 23:05:52 +0000 UTCShows worth of The Grease Trap. Might actually listen to the intro.
Cyber Nuance
2020-07-31 22:54:20 +0000 UTC6 Hours? Showing 1hr 16 here. Still, Senor Tomato has blessed us with this verdant harvest!
SarahJRandomNumbers
2020-07-31 22:12:47 +0000 UTC6 hours of the Grease Trap? Surely you jest
Sir Drinkalot
2020-07-31 22:05:35 +0000 UTC#DicksOutForGreaseTrap
SarahJRandomNumbers
2020-07-31 21:54:25 +0000 UTC
