Can We Fix It? Part 1 = DFF #286

Pengelum theory is usually thought of it going back and forth but most don't assume there is a lose in momentum. If you think there is a lose then that is momentum theory.

Junigame

Paul made a lot of dumb arguments and projected a lot. His obsession with the definition of a pendulum was embarrassing.

Patrick Lively

Needs more pendulums

Adolf of Londor

But "momentum theory" doesn't say that a pendulum will swing back harder in the opposite direction... It says it will eventually lose momentum and come to rest in the middle. Nothing accelerates without a force acting upon it, and momentum ain't a force. Should've really invited Vaush to this series to put Paul back in his place again. Worst doomer ever.

Adolf of Londor

Hark! The fallen Engels sing: "glory to parkie our king - the pendulum is justified - the banana crucified"

Adolf of Londor

penjlum sichuation

Adolf of Londor

If your argument hinges on a logical "trap" which you have to enforce by insisting that an analogy is literally accurate to a phenomenon, you might have a bad argument. Even if its simply a trap you believe cannot ever be escaped, you've deluded yourself. You even have to lead an opposing argument into a certain set of yes/no's to set the trap, and those yes/no's then BECOME the opposing argument when they were only technically true and didn't reflect the spirit of the opposing argument. That's how you keep the crows away, not argue honestly.

Logan Moody

That argument had me rocking back and forth because I can really see it either way tbh. Not even particularly left wing tho.

PlebieMcPlebison

That authoritarianism is only the product of the far right is a dangerous misconception . Paul talks as if he is the fist person in history arguing for a workers revolution. Maybe he should read some Marx and Engels.

Anton Rockström

Diggin the editing, it's not too infrequent or over the top.

Moist Calzone

Worst setup to a gay orgy porno ive ever seen

Bishop

looool

Xenos Nassar

"you guys"? I think you mean just Paul. TJ wasn't being dramatic at all. Paul lost his mind.

Xenos Nassar

Paul was trying to trap TJ with a pendulum like one of the evil inquisitors in Edgar Allan Poe’s sinister tale. That’s pretty fucked up, Paul!

Jean the Baptiste

If paul want to swing the pendulum to the right why doesn’t he vote for trump?

Chari lindquist

Paul is fucking retarded lol he sounds like someone who just became a leftist two seconds ago

Chari lindquist

Paul is such a little bitch! He's not letting Tj talk and acts like he is the victim

Kike

God Paul is such an idiot. His ideas are moranic. How are you 40 years old and haven't learn shit. In 40 years we have progressed so much. How you learn this shit.

Kike

I disagree with Paul on the Bernie or bust thing as much as the next guy but holy shit are you guys dramatic about it

GrogMayne

TJ is right Paul is wrong

Daniel Young

Damn, the editing on this episode is fucking GG, we, the patrons, are worthy of such an honour, of course!

John Highlands

I wonder what Paul thinks about Jimmy Dore. I've heard many lefties call him an idiot, and he does seem kind of stupid to me. Did he just happen to stumble on the correct perspective on this issue?

Adam Hayse

When it comes to the election, I respect Trump supporters more than people like Paul. Trump supporters at least believe he’s going to make America great again, Paul is suggesting it would be a good thing for people’s lives to get worse, or end, in order to advance his political agenda. That’s really fucking callous.

Samuel Howard

Paul is right

Conner Cruz O'Brien

It's a null point to think you can make a movement by not voting, as if that means anything. There are plenty of people who will vote and they'll be paying attention to them on who is President; maybe if anyone wants a change they should actively do something about it? Griping on a podcast that anyone is making a stand is completely pointless, if that stand is just complaining.

Alex Tomlin

love how many people get salty about Paul, like anyone fucking cares about you or what you have to say.

PaytonBray

Take the human out of power, is what man needs.

Gary Czernick

I would argue Trump and Biden are equally as evil is the other its one is louder about it than the other.

Gary Czernick

NO he has every right to complain because he didn't participate unlike the Biden simps

Maryjane Saja

I don't think it was Taylor they hired an editor

Maryjane Saja

i hope it just gets Paul removed

Noah Miller

Paul has a crazy delusion more like, and says to bring on the nukes if he doesn't get the society he wants. Sad man needs to be euthanized lol

Noah Miller

Paul doesn't think like a sane rational human being though.. It's either, "we make a society the way I want it" or "just bring on the nukes and kill 8 billion people because I'm a suicidal bitch"

Noah Miller

agreed. I never liked Paul and he needs to go. If he covers the election with TJ & Scotty, then I'm watching DP

Noah Miller

Bishop

Nah, theyre still best friends. Paul is just quick to anger. TJ doesnt come across as a guy who holds grudges to me either.

Bishop

I like Paul, i just think hes misguided. Most of the stuff he has a hand in is enjoyable. Especially DDnDD.

Bishop

I thought I sensed some hostility in TJ these past few weeks, this episode may have been why or I could be just losing my mind.

Doitlive

Paul is the personification of dunning kruger effect. Thinks he knows everything, knows next to nothing. " I've been here 40 years" cool Paul, testamonial. Powerful stuff there. Can we just not have Paul centric content anymore? CvC was great, I can't think of anything else he's headed that's quality.

damien glenn

Vaush handed Paul his ass, so much so Paul felt SUPER stupid by the end of it and looked like a child. Paul, ever the bitter super ego, takes any swing he can now when vaush can't say anything back.

damien glenn

I think he was appointed, not elected cuz of massive backlash after he lost the election. But i still totally agree, great point!

Bishop

We went from Trump to joe because people were so afraid of trump they put electability above policies they care about like M4A.

O

The term for far right is “reactionary.” Radical only means left.

O

He tries to support it by getting the physics of a pendulum wrong, then applying those wrong physics to an analogous pendulum.

O

I hated when Obama expanded slavery into the territories. What a fascist.

O

I love how after Hitler was elected, the pendulum swung so far left he lost in a landslide for re-election . . . Oh wait. They stopped having elections, and many, many countries throughout history show this as a distinct possibility. Whereas Paul's theory hasn't been demonstrated.

Juiblex

"Under Obama, minorities suffered harder than they ever suffered in this country. " ~ Paul

Juiblex

this is probably my least favorite dff episode, I don't know kinda boring too hypothetical

Till Busch

you must be new here if you think that the argument that Paul's ego and TJ has is going to break up the show

Johnny Kamikaze

Paul's plan is scrap borders, so that everyone can live in the United States and share in the great way of life they have, which sucks. How can anyone think this notion isn't entirely self refuting.

Graham Paterson

Yes he can!

Krista Vaillancourt

Bishop

Bishop

Bishop

Was it just me or did the intro song sound super weirdly compressed this episode?

Franklin Distelzweig

Also, just wanted to say awesome work on editing this episode Taylor! A lot of work was put into this.

aDisgruntledGiraffe

Really enjoyed this episode. I see the merits of both of their arguments for the lesser of two evils. But ultimately I side with Paul because the lesser of two evils has never resolved anything over the last 50 years and it's only allowed our politicians to shift ever more right, while most of the American people support progressive policies, even if it's just a slight majority. Nothing will ever be solved with our electoral system as it is.

aDisgruntledGiraffe

Watching tj & Paul fight is like watching my parents - very traumatic

Matthew Jury

Just saying as someone who has kids just destroying the system doesn't necessarily Ensure a better future for my children , it could mean the opposite ! Especially if we lose ! You know with all the death and destruction and lack of infrastructure that would occur not to mention who's taking over when the dust settles how do you make sure they're not corrupt as well , that it was all worth it ? Your talking about civil war without truly understanding the ramifications Paul . I love you tho great ep but damn you got me heated lol

Eric BiggZ

Agreed! I don’t really even understand what Pauls end game is within his theories. Id love for Paul to sit in front of 10 immigrants and spout his shit on why the US is so bad and why they shouldn’t get a green card to move here

Bo Prince

So conclusion don't vote ? Give up the little influence & little power you have because They both suck ? .. better idea 💡 . Why not vote for the lesser of two evils & then work either outside or within the political system the other 364 days of the year isn't of blowing up the current civilization & starting from scratch .

Eric BiggZ

And accelerationism is the lead up to doomerism . How does that solve anything?

Eric BiggZ

When you talk about electing radicals radicals go both ways for right and far left .

Eric BiggZ

When it comes to the Overton window Democrats move right fiscally left socially . Republicans just move right

Eric BiggZ

Get pimpmunk to do a resume /audition episode. Some new blood would be good for you fuckers.

Graham Paterson

Can you guys remove Paul from the show? I just don't like Paul

Noah Miller

Your last sentence is literally what so many leftists who refuse to vote are doing. Refusing to vote as if politicians will give a shit, and hoping that after more years of Republicans and conservative courts that a leftist leader will swoop in out of nowhere and save the day afterwards. We can both vote who will serve our interests marginally better AND participate in strikes and protests.

Sara K

At first I was upset because I knew that the first topic Paul chose would send the episode off the rails, but then I ended up being so glad that’s what happened. Great episode! You never know what to expect with these guys.

Marc Geener

Loved it!

Anthony Steenbeke

I would like to applaud the winner of this episode, The Editor.

Marshall

THIS. This whole vote for Joe thing really comes down to people just wanting the boot on their neck to have a smiley face on it. Joe is a WAR CRIMINAL. He is not a solution to Trump and could lead to a worse right winger prez in the future. And when that happens I would not be surprised if Ivanka ran as a DEM and Vote Blue was like "Vote for HER because Stalin 2.0 is WORSE!"

Heather Squidz

I think Paul fights too many people on Twitter that have made him out to be a Trumper for hating Joe and maybe some of that rage spilled over at TJ. It's not the way to handle it all but honestly I saw it coming. I think TJ is mentally away from this issue a lot and Paul LIVES IT. I think Paul would be better off if he started a protest or something that would be with like minded people instead of fighting with people who are settled into their ways.

Heather Squidz

I don’t understand why TJ didn’t bring up the point that leftist movements like unionization will do better under a Biden presidency than a trump presidency. Biden is weak and will compitulate far more than trump will on things like unions.

PhatNutz

Here is how I look at things. We would have NEVER jumped from a president like Bernie to a president like Trump. WE WOULD HOWEVER AND DID go from DNC centrist war hawks and corporate suits like Hillary, Obama and Joe to Trump. It is arguable that policies like Joe created led to Trump. Hillary was supposed to be the lesser of 2 evils vote in 2016 after she cheated Bernie. America spoke and said "I would rather have Trump than another corporate shill DEM"... It stands to reason that by continuing to participate in this fake democracy you are in-fact setting up the pins for another Trump...and another....and another....and so on. If I were a billionaire oil lobbyist the one thing I would NEVER WANT is for you to stop voting Joe/Hillary/Bill/Obama.. because if you stop being fooled I can't control you anymore. :/

Heather Squidz

Paul is being really naive here. Ofc the "pendulum theory" doesn't literally mean that things are going to swing "further left", that's ridiculous and doesn't reflect human nature. There are no shortage of examples of societies that have crumbled to the point of where their populations are dying by the millions only to have a new despotic leader come to power and continue exploitation of the situation for their own personal power. There's no "universal law" that says that if things "get bad enough" that things will suddenly turn around for the masses. Generally speaking, although not always, power and capital will continue to exploit until there is nothing left. So yeah, harm reduction matters. Take a fucking vacation paul, from your own toxicity.

foxyproxy

Never knew there were so many Joe bros in the audience. PS: There will never be a GOOD TIME for a revolution. EVER. You just have to stop being a crab in a bucket and GO DO IT. Imagine if Bolivians were just like "Welp I am gonna sit on my hands and hope we can push the dictators left" instead of fighting and dying for their cause.

Heather Squidz

I would gladly debate you Paul. I bet you would just scoff at this comment like the condescending jerk you are and refuse to converse with me because I'm a 'dUmB vIeWeR."

Booop Booop

Paul "If Fascism takes over and we all die then we'll win." You're not bright when it comes to political theory or politics in general.

Booop Booop

I mean, we can discuss it... in Minecraft

Velvet Zealot

This can be fixed, we just arnt allowed to discuss the real solution in public forums.

The Glue Boblin

I'm sorry Paul but your tirade was hilarious, I was laughing the whole time! XD and TJ being passive for the most part, lol.

Astir

Paul is going to destroy the show...

Kenneth Jennings

The nicest guys always claim to be the biggest assholes. Weird huh?

BleedTheFreak

Can I take a guess why you don’t like illhan? Is it because she’s a black Muslim woman?

O

Finally the truth has been spoken, down with simp TJ!

Jeffrey Searcy

I absolutely love Paul, but holy shit was that pendulum argument pedantic. Some of these other people in the comments need to calm down though. This episode was still great.

Alex Ross

Sure, a pendulum will swing back farther left the farther it is pushed right initially, but the pendulum will never swing back as far left as it did right because friction exists. If no further force is applied, each swing in each direction will be less and less far until the pendulum stops moving in the center. Analogies break down if they are taken to literally, and this pendulum one totally did. If politics literally worked like a pendulum, we would have a communist after Trump. So for this analogy to work, there would have to be a force stopping the pendulum from its back swing at about center right... and this analogy is really starting to break down, it makes no fucking sense in the context of politics anymore, the pendulum is irrelevant now if there are external forces that can just move it or stop it from moving which there clearly must be because all we have are right and center right. Whatever, that whole lesser of two evils argument was dumb, politics isn't a literal pendulum.

The True Nihilist

Right? Paul is such a insufferable douche bag I dont want to give him a red cent

Preston Neal

Right? A few disagreements and Paul says "if you say that about a friend iD haTe tO seE hoW yoU tReat yOur enEmieS

Preston Neal

You literally just described politics. That’s how it works, all over the globe. But keep crying about it I guess

Preston Neal

Paul is sooooooo butt hurt about Vaush. He was tweeting about Vaush today and in this episode he criticizes Tj for “cozying up to Vaush.” Tj has talked to Vaush twice and both of those times were months ago.... why is Paul such a petty, jealous cunt?

Preston Neal

Christ, this is straight up unwatchable. I've always had a soft spot for Paul, but this is getting out of hand. He argues in such bad faith whenever this topic comes up. It's never real arguments, just sensation bullshit in the vein of "how could you do this, TJ?! Have you forgotten where you've come from?!" TJ clearly has more patience than I do, because this definitely would have turned into a shouting match if I was talking to him

Velvet Zealot

TJ isn't even addressing the argument. He keeps falling back to arguing that Biden or Trump are inevitable this election, well no shit. Paul isn't saying that the outcome of this election isn't inevitable and has breaks, so stop trying to dodge the point and pretend that's the argument. What Paul is saying is that the system that leads to us only having a harm reduction option each election isn't inevitable and does have breaks. And making the short term harm reduction vote is what creates an environment where that's the only option each election. If the democrats lose enough, they'll eventually have to bend to the will of the left in order to start winning elections again. They don't have power if they don't win elections, and power is all they care about, as well as being the only leverage we have. If the uninformed voters keep being told Biden-clones are "leftist" of course they're never going to move left either. You're too short sighted TJ, you need to think further ahead than just whichever election is next.

daniel schmitt

You're a nice guy, TJ.

Puppylynch

To be fair, Democrats deport more than Republicans because Republicans keep the immigrants in labor camps and private prisons to funnel money to themselves and their friends. Deportation is bullshit, but its way better than what Republicans do to them.

daniel schmitt

Paul wants to light a fire under the lefts ass. Doncha think we're kinda there right now?

William Trowbridge

The ratchet effect is eventually going to take the pendulum out of play. Fascism is a real threat. Especially when its backed by capitalists with deep pockets. You can't swing back to the left if we're all in camps.

William Trowbridge

When it comes to the american public the overton window is increasingly moving left. Leftist ideas like medicare for all, ubi etc are widely favored by most americans.

William Trowbridge

Paul is fucking unbearable here. Can he take a vacation... he's in such a sour bitter mood lately its ruining everything. Can the kirk brothers just do all the november shows and paul take a break he clearly needs one

Fried Poptarts

Boy you really misinterpreted things. If anything it seems like DFF may be coming to an end.

WC

The force applied is Paul's ego.

David

Bob the builder can fix it

AlterEgoIII

That's a tactic though. Paul is a theatre kid.

Krista Vaillancourt

Truth. I think they are mentioning vaush more than TJ though.

Krista Vaillancourt

Do you really think Paul or TJ have taken anything said here personally? This is a show.

Krista Vaillancourt

I'm sure they're fine.

Krista Vaillancourt

I don't know why but when TJ and Paul are fighting, I like them both so much more. It's funny. It's like watching my parents fight, I know they still love each other so the argument just comes off as cute.

Krista Vaillancourt

Fuck ilhan the rest of the squad good in my book. AOC has made herself look like a idiot before but atleast shes trying to get out there

ZenithOfSpace

I don't understand how Paul can argue in such bad faith with someone he supposedly calls his friend. I can't imagine how anyone but a complete garbage human being would do that.

Maya Balsich

If Paul believes in the pendulum theory so much then why does he not think that once you move the pendulum really far right and then it swings really far left , that it wound just swing really really far right again. Also i would like to point out that a real pendulum will eventually rest in the center un less force is applied. what is the force applied to the political pendulum.

Over stuffed

Its because the false believe corporatism or even capitalism is a feature of the right wing. In a right wing country the state rules to the benefit of the interests of that countries ethnic group the state looks out for them runs the economy and gives back in form of social programs while protecting the cultural and ethnic identity. This is much more of a right wing state than amazonland

Adolf Maybach

What has stopped Trump for the past 4 years? I don't understand where the hyperbole comes from when he's been president. Everyone fear mongers about what is going to happen if Trump becomes president. Dude, he is right now.

Krista Vaillancourt

Capitalism has not much to do with beeing right wing. Trump is not that right wing. The more important divide between right and left is if the policy is directed against the culturally/ethnically dominant group or in support of that group. Most right wingers dont give a shit about capitalism they vote right wing because their government and media are hostile against them. This is what is happening in europe and usa. The left wing in these countries are driven by their dislike for the native culture/ethnic and are actively working to replace it with foreigners who dont need to follow rules like the rest. They can just walk over the border here in europe and then they travel to germany so they can live here for free and without having to work while contribunting to our crime rates. Nothing about our societies is right wing The most ironic thing is you say how the ultimate endgame of the right is national socialism which has not much to do with capitalism but everything with caring for their own and working hard for your country which in turn gives back(socialism) to make the people happy. This is the main idea behind national socialism.

Adolf Maybach

My thoughts exactly !!! The minute he mentioned "vaush" I was like , "ok now I know why this episode is going on"

coffee brained

Harm reduction isn't harm reduction. Biden is bad in a different way. He was part of an administration that was supposed to be better than the previous one. And it was at home in some ways, but internationally it was worse. I expect Biden will be very similar to Obama. He might say nice things about gay people, but he is going to invade more countries. Is his rhetoric an even trade for the lives that will be lost?

Krista Vaillancourt

I see what you're saying and really like your optimism but I heavily disagree with your last statement. You can't just advocate for "millions" of people to just move to a different state. The whole sentiment us leftists are acknowledging that things are so bad for the average person financially, and so many people are at risk for being evicted. Moving to a different state is SOOO much easier said than done.

Sara K

I really liked Scotty in this episode.

Helm Burte

Every time Paul took down his headphone, cocked his head back and looked up to the ceiling, I lost my shit laughing.

Jesse Silver

This is unwatchable. Guys, please create a patron tier of $20 that goes only to TJ and Scotty. I don't want to give my money to a disingenuous degenerate.

Maya Balsich

Paul discussing slaughter houses gave me so much insight into him. Appalling working conditions, physical and mental ailments, needlessly cruelty to make red meat products affordable. He came back with oh well this is how we get sausages and bacon! Does anyone believe Paul would hack it in an authoritarian left wing regime which prescribes foodstuffs?

Graham Paterson

If Paul’s pendulum theory is right and the pendulum needs to swing far to the right in order for it to swing back far to the left, doesn’t that mean that once it gets to the far left side it will swing back to the far right side? Is Paul’s plan just for politics to be constantly swinging back and forth between a communist state and fascist state? Why does Paul think the pendulum will stop swinging once it reaches the far left side? What if he’s wrong and it stops swinging at the far right side? He was so dumb in this episode.

Doctorseaweed

Way to say 2 mutually exclusive positions are both right just to kiss ass. I hate people like you that don’t care about the truth and just want people to get along.

O

And I pity Paul having to cope with 2020 suddenly tame TJ.

Edvard Lundgren

Paul gave me more anxiety than Trump during the first debate. What a child.

Robin Baer

Have YOU thought this through to the end?

Edvard Lundgren

Here’s the summary of this episode. Paul strawmans TJ, Paul denies that he strawmaned TJ, TJ clarifies his position, Paul strawmans it. Rinse and repeat. Paul was so dumb in this episode.

Doctorseaweed

Philosopher by trade here who knows something about Political Philosophy: Hmmm... Not sure if I agree on the direction of the change of the window over time. I think it depends upon what timescale we are looking at it. If you believe in moral progress (meaning, we are, over time, becoming a better society) then I find it hard to believe that we are moving more toward the right. Let me try and explain, I hope you can follow and you can understand my point. Let's start at T0, the start of our timescale. If moral progress is true, then at some T1 society will be better. The "moderate right" is a longing for the continuation of the status quo at T0. Ergo, at T1, when we have made moral progress, the conservatives at T0 are now further right than the current status quo at our T1 and the status quo conservative at T1. Ex. When women did not have the right to vote (call it Ta) then the status quo right wingers would be against women voting at Ta. Now, once women can vote, now Tb, the people who want the status quo are left of the people that did not women to vote at Ta. Thus, as time goes on, we see that the conservative (again, moderate, "I want status quo") shifts to the left over time. NOW, if we are talking about neo-liberal capitalistic policy over time, we have certainly gotten more "right" since WWII. BUT, CERTAINLY ON SOCIAL ISSUE WE HAVE GOTTEN MUCH MORE LEFT OVER TIME.

John Roso

I thought the same thing. Not only is he wrong about the theory, but he's wrong about how the physics of an actual pendulum work as well. Just a waste of time.

John Smith

Gave up half way through. You made the right choice.

John Smith

Please god no. That would mean I've spent $2.50 on boring commie ramblings.

John Smith

Even if you believe it doesn't affect you, which it does, isn't that a little self-serving?

John Smith

I gotta say Paul came off as a complete douche in the first half of the show. He is also a self described “Left Authoritarian”. I’m opposed to Authoritarians of any kind.

Gavvyn

Great episode, very entertaining, worth every penny of my money. I have a THIRD perspective! I'm a white, CIS, heterosexual male. I will likely not suffer much no matter who wins SO with that in mind, I'm going to stay home on election day and watch Netflix. I'm gonna leave this up to the Vaushes of the world to fix. Is TJ right? Is Paul right? I don't care, I'm gonna watch Star Trek DS9 for the 32nd time.

Phat Man

Paul was insufferable in this episode. Whenever TJ disagrees with his position he goes like "GODDAMIT TJ I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS, I GUESS I WAS WRONG!" Like even if Paul is ultimately right he needs to learn that him and TJ can disagree with each other on one issue without a Paul thinking it means they’re not really friends.

Doctorseaweed

What a shitshow... Cant wait for part 2!

Santeri Turunen

It's really more about Paul seemingly trying to bully TJ into changing his political opinion, as if that fucking matters at all

Tiny Turnip

Not even gonna watch this one. I knew just based on the title and the thumbnail that this whole episode would just be more of Paul's garbage political takes and judging from the comments it looks like I was right.

CORNMAN

Wow, the amount Paul believes in the pendelum theory is ridiculous. You know what might happen if Trump wins? He will move the party further to his line of thinking, either spoiling the GOP completely OR making a 'normal' republican look more leftist by comparison and thus making it more plausible that they will keep winning elections. Because any candidate that will not be as retarded as Trump will be considered more 'progressive' or 'center'. Think about this, especially with the track-record the DMC has with fielding shitty, cringy, centrist candidates that no one cares for. The only way the pendelum swings back as hard as Paul wants it to is if Trump has another 4 years and then the DMC fields a progressive, rock-start candidate like Obama. This is unreal wishful thinking. It's more probable Trump will continue and then both parties will field shitty, milk-toast centrist candidates.

kyjol

No matter how far the pendulumn swings left its always going to swing back right, guess what Paul were not gonna break the fabric of American politics and live in a cashless society any time soon, its not fucing realistic. This is not the election to bullshit around and pretend like were going to change the way our entire country has worked since fucking inception, We are in the middle of one of the most important points in history ever and if Trump mishandles it it will fuck up the coutnry for decades.

Upton Sinclair

Definitely recommend reading this piece by Peter Frase which summarizes his book "Four Futures". Frase imagines how this post-capitalist world might look, deploying the tools of both social science and speculative fiction to explore what Communism (Egalitarianism & Abundance) , Rentism (Hierarchy & Abundance), Socialism (Egalitarianism & Scarcity) and Exterminism (Hierarchy & Scarcity) might actually entail. I'm curious which futures you prefer, seem realistic, and how life would be under them. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/12/four-futures

Chazz Darby AKA Martine Garbagio

Paul still adding addendums to that disastrous Vaush interview... Also the editing is pointless here

Adolf of Londor

This whole episode is just a leftist homework assignment. Pretty gay.

John Smith

im more with paul this episode, but the real question is if the destination is on the other side of the world who cares if its a few miles shorter a distance to travel left or right enjoy the view and the ride on the way there

ZenithOfSpace

I have to agree. This isn't fun to listen to.

John Smith

I'm a fidget-spinner theory man myself lol

John Smith

Wow there’s a lot of salty tjcophants in the comments.

Ian Dean

Part 2- one million already exists. Paul has made his don’t vote argument about a million times.

O

only 50 minutes in and I'm loving it please do a part 2!!!

Sergey S

I wish 2017 tj would come back just once to put Paul back in his place, Paul was so disrespectful to tj this episode like wtf

Garrett Bay

Pendulum theory is about how power swings from party to party. It’s not about people switching party affiliation. The amounts of seats that are up for each party vary. Paul saying “you don’t understand pendulum theory” is laughable.

O

I'm actually even dumber than that because I didn't even realize that was what the graphic was portraying lmao

GarconTheGuy

Why did we get a 32kbps version of the intro song?! Other than that, the episode was amazing!

TeaWrecks

wow paul is really using ad hominem attacks on TJ while strawmanning him saying BIDEN GUNNA FIX IT ALL. wow shame on Paul he was intellectually disingenuous through this entire thing. Basically a shitty episode imo because TJ and Paul talked past each other the entire time. But i give TJ more credit because he attempted to be charitable to Paul at first.

Mark Sweeney

Paul, I don't understand you being so stuck on the Pendulum theory, and if we allow it to swing far right, then it eventually swings far left. Because guess what, if we were to continue the analogy, when the Pendulum swings so far left to your position it's gona also swing even farther right than ever before ! So your analogy defeats your own position & aspirations. Now if you're gona say, Oh, when it swings far left, at this moment, we will cut the Pendulum cord and the ball will stay forever in the left field. Cool... But also why not consider that when you deliberately help the Pendulum swing so far right by helping Trump, they won't adopt your same tactic & cut the cord and keep the ball forever in the far right field ? I don't think you have thought this out to the end. You just stopped at the point where it favors your idea. This said, i appreciate & sympathise with where you're coming from, and not saying you are totally wrong; but you're not pushing your own hypothesis to the end... pendulum keeps swinging BOTH ways.

Darth-Myself

paul is fucking so emotionally invested its honestly sad. Tj is doing the right thing Paul is a moron.

Mark Sweeney

Paul calling TJ a dumbfuck for not knowing how a Pendulum works while having no fucking idea how one works is........just great.

Jenna

For topic one: Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, Niel Gorsuch.

O

Then stop paying bitch. No one’s forcing you to hand over your fat ass dollar.

Soviet Stache

Poor TJ having to cope with salty paul's horrid cognitive dissonance. Pendulum pendulum pendulum lazer brain 4D chess straw man

Jared Miller

Lol the editor thought that Paul's idea of a "cashless society" involved replacing actual cash with electronic transactions

Ishaan govardhan

as long you dont play dD&dD online (or reallife, what paul deems impossible) shut the fuck up about the chefs table, you dont offer nearly enough to justify paying you 10 bucks atm so pls step up your game or stfu

Duckling Duckins

Scotty's nervous grinning reminds me of an anxious child trying to relieve the tension between 2 parents who're about to go through a vindictively contentious divorce.

Ishaan govardhan

I wish i could be a fly on the wall for the impending "We need to talk about Paul" conversation between tj and scotty. Actually no I just wish to be a fly

Ishaan govardhan

The new editing is really adding a lot to recent episodes, good work!

Jack of Tears

I was listening to this in my bed and I thought there was a fucking sperglord next door trying to untangle his hair from a power drill.

Zeaxe

Just reading these comments before watching the video. Wish me luck.

Ceph

I'm not smart enough to have an opinion on this issue.... or perhaps I'm TOO smart to.

Ishaan govardhan

I enjoyed reading this comment a lot lol thank you

Sara K

Why should he apologize? He is entitled to his opinion.

Edvard Lundgren

How many times does Paul have to make shitty arguments until he just realizes he’s wrong? Just admit you’re wrong and that you’re being a total dick with your views, apologize, swallow your pride.

Brianna Camp

Pendulum Theory? Overton Theory? Jesus fucking christ, no one understand politics...

Ryan Buckman

One thing I will say is I understand what Paul is saying about the current election, but if Trump does win, I sure as hell hope he nor anyone he knows needs an abortion anytime soon. Because if Trump wins America can kiss its abortion rights goodbye. Biden sucks but it's better we vote for him than Trump.

I think a seesaw is a better political analogy.

Joe Rader

Yeah the editor doing some stupid reverb effects at times and stuff

Lil View

I don't know if I can make it through this one

Mark Sweeney

Weird how much trash is being talked about Paul here. Paul, you're good shit, TJ, you are too. Both valid arguments. The truth of the matter is, neither of you are right, because no one REALLY knows what the fuck is best/going to work out in the end lol. But you're both trying your best. I'm just really glad to see you guys carry on as friends. I know I mentioned this in another stream, but I recently had a friendship end from literally an argument JUST like this. Me being a voter, and my friend being a non voter. I actually more so went off on him because he is also an anti-masker so... it was pretty hard not to lay into him for being so anti-public health.

Samtar

I love you guys but I'm not going to watch this episode. This is the first time I've ever done that. I don't want to hear any more about this. Please. You are tearing down what made this show great.

Edvard Lundgren

Stop with the cheesy sound effects.

Vedren

Two weeks man. Two weeks. Then a 6 month break... then it’s back to “election season”.

PESSIMIST PRODUCTIONS

best episode in years. PLEASE GUYS. dont fag out and quit the show. you guys work so well together. Talk about your issues, try to understand each other. You're good guys. love each other.

Sean Gallant

I will be so glad when this election is over. I'm tired of the guys discussing this same exact topic over and over and over and over and over and over with nobody's mind being changed.

You'd think that after getting rekt by Vaush in their debate that he'd have SOME reflection on his doomer views. That debate definitely pulled me away from Paul's view of the world, and he continues to use the same shitty arguments he used back then. The revolution ain't happenin this year bud, get over it.

Sam Charles

You guys seem to forget that for the first time in our nation's history we've had a candidate who has (twice now) forced the Democratic Party much further to the left in Bernie Sanders. At least with a Biden Presidency we have a good chance of forcing political change through action. Sanders already moved the discussion over to the left. A few years ago major health care and environmental reform would not have been on the agenda. Trump is the only person in history I could ever imagine having reacted to a record number of demonstrators (by far) by doing absolutely nothing. It is appalling. Four more years of him would be catastrophic. With a Biden Presidency you have individuals much further to the left than Creepy Uncle Joe in key positions and a good chance his administration will give in, in many aspects. The Republican Party may be moving further and further to the right, but the Democratic isn't. It is only a matter of time before they are totally obsolete.

Zach Watkins

Alright, that was one hell of an episode. I feel like there’s a lot to be said, but it ultimately comes down to a certain mindset. I have a theory as to what’s happening underneath the surface, and maybe this can help somebody out. There’s a personal grievance that’s happening underneath the surface. It’s mostly with Paul, but I also feel like it has to do with TJ a bit to. And it all comes back to Vaush, but not in any sort of way that has to do with him or what he represents. You won’t hear this from these three, but I hope you explore this recent history lesson TJ see what is occurring. TJ went on Vaushs channel a little after Bernie Sanders dropped out. Before this, TJ was super passionate about Sanders and felt defeated. Paul didn’t, and he was ultimately correct. Bernie Sanders was nothing more than a nice man who had great ideas about healthcare. But he really wasn’t a leader. TJ sank a large chunk of his identity into supporting Sanders, because he needed hope, and it was now gone. Trapped in a Vulnerable Place TJ goes on Vaush’s Stream. A big chunk of Vaush’s Platform/Audience is taking down Anti-SJWs who have become Fascist Sympathizers (*cough* Sargon *cough*). Despite this, the conversation went pretty well. And TJ finally got to admit something that was on his mind, that he regrets some of the decisions he made during his Anti-SJW/Drunken Peasants Hayday (meaning he regrets ever giving credence to the Right-Wing part of his audience). This is Cathartic, and I imagine it would be. The Conservatives who used to be part of this Audience were Parasitic Whiners if you ask me. Being able to turn your back from a group of people TJ used to have to pander towards must have felt good, especially after your Hope was lost when Sanders lost. But this conversation changed TJ in a lot of ways. Not saying it was better or worse (I think it’s way better), but he was no longer the same guy. He was more introspective and less certain about his outlook. Paul is a different story. He got depressed (just like most of us) during the early stages of the pandemic. Paul never had a sense of hope, so the bad news of what was happening in the world was nothing more than the world becoming more dim and meaningless. This was a sentiment Paul already felt, but the pandemic probably gave him more reason to double down on his beliefs. Paul also didn’t have the same sort of public baggage as TJ did, so there was no reason to release a toxic part of the fan base because he never pandered towards that part of it in the first place (I mean, he was the one who massacred Milo Yianopolis & Andy Warski during the height of that movement). So there was no need for introspection. Fast forward to these elections. It’s completely fair to state that Vaush completely changed TJs mind on Voting. Rather this is because of the argument or because TJ found a personal awakening through Vaush is up for debate. But Paul doubles down on his stance, because he was correct all along regarding the system. There is minor yet heated disagreement, but it isn’t a huge deal. Then George Floyd happens, and Trump goes from acting like an incompetent figure head to a dangerous symbol. This is when I personally changed my stances on the election, because I saw how Trump was wiling time play to the most dangerous parts of his base (who all want nothing but to live out their revenge fantasy btw). Around this time though, Paul goes on Vaush’s stream, probably from TJs request over any sort of political reason. TJ was hoping Paul would also gain some sort of Awakening from Vaush. What happened though was affirmation that Vaush was falling into the same traps that he and his brethren fell into during his entire lifetime (particularly with Obama). Vaush is my age, and probably didn’t notice the same talking points in 2008, but Paul noticed. And it frustrates him to see somebody as young and popular (Vaush is the fastest growing leftist channel in Youtube history btw) as Vaush spill the same points that lead to the shitty world we live in today. Paul doesn’t gain an awakening through Vaush, instead he gains a reason to go further with what he originally thought. This becomes a bigger deal during the Krystal Ball scandal (you can blame me BTW, as I pushed TJ to cover this topic back in June) when Vaush goes after Kyle Kulinski and calls him a Nazbol. Vaush did go to far and created unnecessary Drama with Kyle, but his stances on Krystal are still valid in my opinion. But Paul doesn’t just see a Political Pundit attacking another Political Pundit for supporting a third political pundit who could be a massive grifter. Instead he sees a channel who is creating unnecessary drama and attacking somebody he respects. To Pauls Credit, Vaush does cause Drama for the sake of views, especially before he had the massive audience he has now. Now Vaush isn’t just a Youtuber with an opinion, he is an agitator who wants to piss everybody off for the sake of notoriety. A lot of this sentiment was going around Vaush in the larger Internet space around the same time (late June, Early July) and Paul got to experience it firsthand. The rift goes further. Joe Biden becomes the nominee and (at least according to the polls) looks pretty likely to win if Trump doesn’t cheat (which he will certainly try). For whatever reason (maybe because of Obama) it’s more upsetting to Paul that people are supporting this man now than it was before. Joe Biden is no longer the dementia joke of a candidate, he is now the one who brings hope in the same way Bernie Sanders was once. The hope is placed differently (Hope of Trumps end, not Biden’s Agenda) but there is still Hope for somebody who doesn’t deserve it. And it becomes less of a joke and more of an issue, especially when most of Twitter and your fan base disagrees with your sentiment. Paul is now taking this passive stance and making it more active. Making it more of a part of his identity. This is his hill because he has been right so many times in the past. And people like Vaush are falling into the same traps, and most of the DFF fan base supports his stance. Paul must wake everybody up and make this a huge deal everywhere he goes. He must speak the truth as he sees it, otherwise we will never change our stances. Tonight’s episode is a reaction from TJ and Paul and what they discovered after discussing with Vaush. TJ discovered a new identity and an introspective look into this character, Paul saw a Figure Head who cheerleads Societal Failing and Cyclical Disappointment . TJ became a new man, Paul tripled down and became a more Pompous Version of the Same Man. Tonight’s Episode is 2020 in action. Some of us changed like TJ. Some of us stood close to ourselves like Paul. But one things certain, nothing is the same. And maybe part of the reason why Paul acted up tonight is because he misses his old friend, and the shared perspective they used to have. I sympathize with that whole heartedly. And I do wish that (for Pauls sake) TJs interaction with Vaush was nothing more than regular conversation with an Internet personality. This entire fan base has obsessed about that man since it happened. But TJ was going to change this year, rather it was through Vaush or not. And it’s a good thing, because he was pretty pathetic last year and the year before that. You had a DFF episode showcasing how pathetic he was just a year ago. And now he’s healthier, happier, more honest than ever. The bottom line is this, Paul was in the wrong in this episode. Pauls attitude towards this topic sucks, and it’s not because I disagree with him. He’s taking it way too seriously, and I assume it’s his coping mechanism for the Trauma this terrible year of 2020 has had on him. All I will say is this. Paul can say his peace, but once the election is over he needs to find a healthier way to cope. He isn’t going to win this fight, even if he is ultimately correct. So I suggest finding a personal passion that has nothing to do with Twitter Opinions or DFF disagreements. And please, never ever think about Vaush again, as he isn’t important to Pauls life in any shape or form. As for TJ and some people in this fan base (myself included) recognize that we are not the same as we were at the beginning of the year and that some people are going to miss the relationships we once had. Situations change, and some people cope with it in weird ways. Paul looked bad tonight, but as his friend both you and Scotty should try taking to him and start figuring out what’s happening underneath the surface. Cause I love Paul, and I would hate for all of this to end just because nobody really asked how he was doing. Tonight’s Episode showed it’s a real possibility. And I would hate for that to happen. So be his friend first, and his co-host second. And remember that Paul has been your friend for years, and that Vaush was nothing more than a figurehead who lets you on the back. This is a long post, and it’s all hypothetical. It might be completely wrong. But somethings going on, and I feel it’s a sadness from the loss of something. Please figure it out.

Hypnotic Visionaire

One of the better comments i've read, they both have points. its annoying seeing people jump on Paul about strawmanning when it's DFF lol its just the edgy nature of the show to argue and throw shit at whoever they disagree with, doubt he'd be on the show if he didn't, if you're really here expecting legitimacy then you're more hopeless than our country is.

Turd Sucker

I think WE can fix it, I just don't think THEY can fix anything. Regardless of whether the politicians in power have an R or a D beside their names, there will be no real substantive change in our daily lives and our future will remain one of pain and misery. TJ is right with his harm reduction voting and Paul is right with his solidarity and new labor unions. Both of these things need to occur simultaneously. Although it must go further than just voting or a new labor movement, it must be a new movement for the betterment of humanity. We must get organized locally. Our actions, voices, and dollars speak far louder than any political figurehead. We must take action daily, and those actions might cause us discomfort or inconvenience us. We can't wait for a savior in a far-away magical land called DC to do the hard work for us, these issues are not political, to begin with. They have merely been co-opted by politicians because these issues can be swatted back and forth endlessly to distract us while they gather more power and raise up their corrupt family and friends. It's not a political pendulum, it's a seesaw or merry-go-round. It's one thing to use social media to speak truth to power and another to scream into the void or go deaf in your echo-chamber. Our successes can be highlighted online but the work is outside your front door, not on your electronic devices, and not in DC. We must be a voice where there is none and a fist when necessary. Pick your passion and take action towards that end. Do not waste your time with negativity, focus on moving forward towards real meaningful change, and don't look back. P.S. If you wanted political change towards the left, you would be advocating for millions of D's in NY and CA, etc to move to several of the red/purple states. Moving 10-15 million out of these overcrowded states and into red/purple states like PA, TX, and FL, that would drastically alter all future elections in the favor of the D's.

Jason Moore

Paul managed to come off as both a remarkably insecure coward, and a strawmaning bully at the same time. And of course as others have already pointed out, he laughably built his argument on his absurd misunderstanding of pendulums which lose momentum as they swing, not gain momentum.

CleverUsername

Paul strawman's everyone he disagrees with.

Zerdalias Elythmyr

That's exactly what this is. He won't though because Vaush will BTFO him.

Zerdalias Elythmyr

Agreed, you can't have one without the other. Who's going to be more receptive to a national labour movement? A democrat or a republican?

Lewibaton

The further right you go, the less liberty you have. At the far left you have anarchism, at the far right fascism. Anarchism is a system that liberates hierarchy, fascism is a system that enforces hierarchy. Capitalism, a system that by design demands hierarchy, is closer to fascism than anarchism. Anarcho-capitalism is a meme. You go far left to the point of anarchism then do a complete 180 and loop around to the far right be enshrining a system of hierarchy: Capitalism.

Lewibaton

The Republican hatred of Democrats is only exceeded by the Democratic hatred of Democrats.

David

Paul you're taking your frustration about Vaush out on TJ here. Why don't you have this conversation with him instead

Lil View

Paul did not bring the best arguments here. Sometimes he was just outright wrong, like mentioning the suffering of minorities under Obama more than any other President or the whole thing about the pendulum. It does NOT swing further the other direction. It loses energy with every swing. TJ is right when he says that his method of voting is just as reasonable as Paul's and has the same chance of succeeding or failing (but TJ ends up actually doing something proactive) and he can still attempt to achieve Paul's plans in the interim. Paul's plan ends up stagnating for 4 years in the hopes that we can build stronger democratic party (If Trump wins) while there's a bit more suffering going on. I ultimately still side with Paul's argument, because as he said in one of his better points, we have rode this train again and again for decades with no success. I think we ought to try something new and different by protesting the two party system and either vote 3rd party or not at all. Maybe electing Trump could result in a better candidate in 2024. It also might not work and just end up moving both parties to the right quicker than it would have. We have no way of knowing and there isn't any historical precedent of it working. But again, what we have done for the past 40 years hasn't worked either. I just wish Paul would accept that TJ is well reasoned in his position and it's a valid course of action.

David

I definitely think TJ was treated unfairly this episode. I get it, Paul is pissed that TJ sees and understands his point, but doesn't agree. That's frustrating, we have all been there with someone, but he sunk to the point where he was just throwing insults and outright dismissing TJ. To TJ's credit, he took that extremely well considering the fire Paul was shooting.

David

Jesus man... I love Paul and have sympathized and partially agreed with his opinion on this topic since it started to come up but I think he is far to emotionally attached to this issue. The amount of petulant rage and disrespect towards TJ he had towards the end of this discussion was hard to watch. Also all the pot shots at Vaush are just awkward, Vaush was totally respectful towards Paul in their discussion so I don't understand the hate boner. How can you advocate for the left banding together and pushing the overton window to the left when you get so heated in a disagreement about how to get there? With all that being said, great fucking episode 10/10.

Tyler Lange

Paul predictably doesn't understand how pendulums work IRL, but whatever. That argument was pedantic and a waste of time. The bigger problem was the constant fucking strawmanning from Paul to TJ.

Soviet Stache

I really hope Paul and TJ stop this useless argument and keep doing what they are good at: DEEP FAT FRIED Tj is right there really isnt a way to change this system but that doesnt make his position anymore palatable and Idk ab yall but i dont think im gonna see Paul marching down the street leading the labor revolution and stringing up all the billionaires anytime soon so this whole argument only serves to damage TJ and Pauls relationship and if they keep on there wont be anymore DFF as we know it.

Richard Armstrong

Paul strawmanned the fuck out of TJ.

Soviet Stache

I haven't seen Paul this pissed off in a long time.

MarxChaotix

Paul has not presented a meaningful argument as to how not participating in the system inhibits its perpetuation. He didn't have any alternative to the system until vaush pointed that out to him several months ago. His alternative, which is essentially direct labor action, is something leftists like vaush and like Noam Chomsky have been advocating for for a while. (Decades in Chomsky's case.) Paul is acting like he's the first one to come up with it and is shitting on people that have been doing it longer than him because they advocate for electoral participation as well. It's really irritating.

Justin Doud

Not sure why you called the furtherst capitalist side of the spectrum "nazi" and "fascism" TJ. The Nazis were extremely right wing ideologically, economically they were center right. The group associated with extreme right wing economy would be anarchists or anarcho-capitalists. Was this a joke or are you guys just discussing economics without researching it before hand? I'm not try to be pedantic, Its just hard to follow when you're conflating two unrelated things.

John Smith

Scotty: "Hey guys, TJ and Paul are no longer friends, shows over"

Soviet Stache

DFF is about to end lol.

Jonathan Jones

I don't think they're advocating for a cashless society tomorrow. The idea as I understand it is that eventually, because of scientific and technological advancement, we will achieve a post-scarcity society that makes currency obsolete. This might sound fanciful, but there really isn't much that can't be achieved when accounting for free, unlimited energy, which is achievable in the somewhat near future. Not in our lifetimes perhaps, but very soon relative to the whole of human existence.

Wyndham Bostian

Suck my juicy cock

Danny Cuz

This shit right here is EXACTLY why I became a patron. Fucking GREAT discussion

John Kennedy

Spicy boys tonight.

Jonathan Jones

This was one of my favourite episodes ever. It's like my own cognitive dissonance duking it out with itself.

Douglas Hesketh

A cashless society where all your needs are just prescribed and provided for by the government? So hell basically? What if someone has an idea that would greatly improve peoples lives, but they require a large amount of funding and resources to set it in motion? Are you suggesting that some old bureaucrat will have to sign off on the allocation or resources, or worse yet, people vote on whether resources are allocated to this idea? That sounds fucking awful. I'm not a fucking worker ant who collects food for the hive. I'm a person. If you want to tax me for half my shit with the threat of imprisonment and leave the rest for me to do with as a I please, that I can almost live with. But having some asshole elected by a bunch of retards decide what I need and what I don't need? Why don't you just cut my nuts off and lobotomize me like the farm animal you clearly think I am? I couldn't disagree more with this shitty idea.

John Smith

This might help the editor, if TJ scotty and paul have a personal recording too that they can send to the editor as well, then that can solve any of the issues with distortion or cut outs. Plus you can bus them so you can highlight the most important person at the time. I just think it could be helpful now your uping your game.

Pissed off mushroom

Nukes could fix it.

Garrett Logue

It can all be fixed, in minecraft.

Doitlive

Long story short. No!!

Darius Rose

i really like the editing boys. keep it up please!

Nicholas Giovanniello

Fixing things are for nerds

Defund Humanity

oh shit im nice and early

Nicholas Giovanniello

oh shit. I guess they need more time to make the second half of tournament of Horrors as great as the first.

Soviet Stache

Spoiler Alert: No we can’t!

Cy Sil