Grease Trap: 18 Jan 2021

What about Scandinavian countries? Just naming Scandinavia countries seems to be enough these days to "prove" that socialism works... How about you tell me what exact socialist policies work there compared to not having those policies. And it needs to be a 1-to-1 comparison. Not gonna make sense if you say something like Scandinavian countries don't have a lot of gang crime or murders. Maybe because they don't have a lot of these gangs in the first place. The US has gang problems because of historical reasons and a lot more multi-culturalism than Scandinavian countries ever did. So stick to 1-to-1 comparisons and don't compare two things that have literally no resemblance to each other. That's what socialists always like to do with this stupid Scandinavian countries example... I would wager that even the almighty Scandinavian countries would be better off with less socialism. Matter of fact, some of them have the least amount of regulations on wages in the world. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland have NO nationally mandated minimum wage. Zero, nada, zilch. This is the tired non-sensical trope of “socialist Scandinavia”. The truth is Nordic countries are some of the most capitalistic and economically free countries in the world. Does that shatter your reality yet?

BangoMike

I can't insult back when someone insults me first? Go play with your toys, little boy.

BangoMike

Calls someone insecure for insulting him. Proceeds to insult them himself. You lack self awareness.

Daniel

Socialism does not work? How about the Scandinavian countries?

Fernando Simões

I didn't demand anything. You came here and started insulting me for no reason. It just shows me that you are an insecure moron who has to view every comment on the internet as an attack against you personally. Your insults don't work on me. I'm only telling the truth. Deal with it.

BangoMike

Wikipedia is the best-corroborated source of knowledge we have. It's better and more accurate than most resources... So yea, I'm not gonna listen to someone who doesn't even know that. You people always move the goalpost. First, you said it's only about Stalinism. After I disproved your demonstrably false statement, you moved the goalpost. Now it's not even important that it's also about Leninism? Yes, it fucking is. And now it's just a fictional book. Was what happened in communism that is exactly mirrored in those books also fictional? Haven you even read them or is it just fiction to you, so you don't feel the need to read them? Anyway, saying that Orwell is "only" fiction is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. It's not only fiction. It has so much basis in reality that your head would explode. Orwell actually lived through that time period and did his research, unlike yourself. Deal with it. And launching satellites by forcing scientists to work for the state in (yet again) special prison camps for scientists (google sharashka) while letting your population live lives in squalor and starvation, is not an achievement. All the USSR did was funnel all available resources into the military for expansion with the goal of world domination or the space program to show off. None of those achievements EVER benefited the common people. It was all a mirage for people like you to point your finger at and say how wonderful it was there... The stupidity of believing any propaganda that came out of the Soviet Union in 2021 is astounding to me. Capitalism allows for the open and free flow of information. You get what you pay for. You don't rely on the state to make hollow promises. THAT is an achievement! And I don't know how you can ignore that capitalism leading to the most wealth and the smallest poverty we ever had in history!!! You can't fucking deny that. People have also been dying since the dawn of time. Saying it's because of capitalism without any proof is just retarded. On the other hand, there is absolute proof that communism killed millions. But you're just ignoring that to win an argument on the internet. Your ego can't handle the truth, so you have to invent a dangerous false reality for yourself and others. If you keep spreading this stupidity, you will probably be the first one who ends up on the chopping block of communism.

BangoMike

Is something wrong with your brain? I'm telling you I'm not taking you seriously. Demanding I do isn't going to work.

Also, and maybe I’m a little too old for very allegories, but why does it matter what Orwell thought and why does it matter what Animal Farm is about? These are fiction. Maybe you should read real history?

Daniel

There’s no truth to what you have said.

Daniel

Gulags or forced labour camps existed long before Lenin was even born. Maybe you might have heard of them in Siberia? What exactly is your point? That socialism begins and ends with Stalin, the USSR, or whatever? How’s your capitalism going? Oh that’s right, it’s destroying the planet and killing people who can’t afford basic necessities because there’s no profit to it. Meanwhile, who was it first started launching satellites into space? The socialists or the capitalists? And I doubt very much you’ve ever read Lenin or studied the history of the USSR, if Wikipedia is your go to source. LMFAO.

Daniel

I don't need you to "calm" me down. Giant angry screeds? Who the fuck do you think you are? You are the angry one here. I'm just saying the truth.

BangoMike

I didn't come here to argue with you. I came here to tell you to calm down. I come here for content not giant angry screeds. Unless Paul, TJ or Scotty are doing them, of course. ;)

@ Daniel The head pig in Animal Farm... Old Major – An aged prize Middle White boar provides the inspiration that fuels the rebellion. He is also called Willingdon Beauty when showing. He is an allegorical combination of Karl Marx, one of the creators of communism, and Vladimir Lenin, the communist leader of the Russian Revolution and the early Soviet nation, in that he draws up the principles of the revolution. His skull being put on revered public display recalls Lenin, whose embalmed body was put on display.[16] By the end of the book, the skull is reburied. Lenin was the one who erected Gulags and removed freedoms. Read the first paragraph in the Gulag Wikipedia article. The difference between Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism is nothing. Stalin only inherited what Lenin already started. He just amplified it. Lenin was the createor and early leader of the Communist state. He came up and implemented all the ideas that Stalin inherited. People who only talk about Stalinism as evil don't have a clue about Socialism. Read about history.

BangoMike

Animal Farm was not a critique of socialism but Stalinism, and unjustly so.

Daniel

@ TheBoxingCannabyte I'm not trolling and not an idiot. Neither was Orwell. That only leaves one idiot. @ Tyson Collier. Socialist policies also lead to problems down the line. You don't have to go full-blown socialism to reap some of the detrimental drawbacks of socialism. Cancel culture, Antifa, silencing voices for political reasons.... These are the biggest problems of our times. Not white supremacy... I'm talking about real mainstream problems here. Not something that is overblown such as white supremacy beliefs. What are the issues of capitalism? Capitalism has brought us prosperity and the lowest levels of poverty that ever existed. It didn't happen because of socialism. @ Edvard Lundgren saying "I'm pretty sure" is not proof... And "democratic socialism" as a term didn't even exist in his time. Not to mention that democratic socialism is an oxymoron. Socialism is supposed to be a paradise that doesn't need elections. It's a dystopia, literally. This is what Orwell warned against. Read the Wikipeida articles on Animal Farm and 1987. Then actually read the books.

BangoMike

You are either trolling or you are one of the biggest idiots on here

TheBoxingCannabyte

I'm pretty sure Orwell was a democratic socialist.

Edvard Lundgren

I live in a place that has socialist policies, It's not Venezuela, it's Australia. Most nations have some form of social spending. Both socialism and capitalism have their own issues, like anything else. You can point out flaws in both and not be advocating for either. relax mate.

LMFAO at you guys finally realizing how socialism actually always works out. Have you just read Animal Farm or 1984 yesterday??? Orwell wrote those books to specifically warn against socialism. Many people still somehow believe it deals with fascism... Orwell himself gave interviews where he clearly states what those books are about. It's socialism. Yes, it's socialism..... But I really don't get the anti-elections slant that always seems to come up. What? Do you think YOU will be better than AOC or whatever elected socialist you criticize now after how much time? You already know it doesn't work because of how the world and how human beings works. Socialism doesn't work. Let's start to wake the fuck up, people. At least you already kinda starting to. Just one or two more steps and you're there. Don't blame elections, don't sink to authoritarianism because you just go back in circles at that point. The problem is right in your face all this time. It's socialism!!! Try to imagine a world without socialism. Just try. It will free you forever. I 100% promise! It's total freedom! Then there is no limit to what humanity can achieve! The Cosmos is endless! It's positive freedom. Take this knowledge and help others, volunteer for others after you have helped yourself by being personally responsible for yourself in any way possible (and if you can't, seek volunteer organizations who will help you). This is the message I want to spread.

BangoMike