Mortius - Scylla + Mutiny1 | Epic The Musical Unedited Reaction

Ah yes, my favourite epic the musical song, mut

Izzy

2024-12-26 14:06:09 +0000 UTC

One of my favorite parts of Scylla is the fact you can hear the screams of the men who died and how Jorge layered Scylla's voice. There's also a really interesting video about Eurylochus and his instrument motif (or lack there of) which I think you would find really interesting.

CKTKat

2024-07-14 04:35:16 +0000 UTC

So, with confirmation from the epic discord. Odysseus purposefully tried to sacrifice eurylochus to scylla with the torches plan, to k!ll him for his betrayal in opening the windbag. The only reason he failed is because eurylochus gave away his torch at the last second to try and save man 5

beauty and a beast

2024-07-13 19:48:57 +0000 UTC

They wanted him to be ruthless and focuse on getting his crew home, not to be outright cruel and literally sacrifice his own crew which keeping secrets

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-13 02:37:48 +0000 UTC

I think as soon as they leave Scylia's lair Eury notices finally notices how much of a monster Odysseus became and that the person he was looking at was not his friend but someone he had to take down to make sure the crew survived.

Pheonix Trickster

2024-07-12 15:03:30 +0000 UTC

So much kills me about the Thunderbringer saga, like Ody has know all this time someone on his own ship opened the wind bag, and he probably suspected Eury, and he's probably been trying to deal with that all this time, not being able to trust his own crew, and now they're turning around to say they can't trust him either ... just omg the feels. Something else I find so interesting is that everyone from his right-hand man to literal Gods have been telling Ody to be more ruthless, but then no one likes what happens as soon as he gives up his moral compass. No one actually wants Ody to be the monster, they just thought they did. Eury is probably realising right about now, just how much he always counted on Ody to do the right thing, even when others told him otherwise. Scylla is honestly my fave song, the vocals kill me every time <3

Dee Cee

2024-07-12 07:53:25 +0000 UTC

The rest of the crew probably are at least starting to see eury as their new leader too at this point so it makes sense

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-11 06:39:38 +0000 UTC

Even worse with the six torches, is that Ody didn’t even give then out himself, he had Eury do it, which I think adds another layer to his anger at Ody

Bella

2024-07-11 00:47:36 +0000 UTC

Jorge released a video about mutiny recently saying that the reason there's electric guitar for Eurylochus is that he;s trying to take Odysseus's place, so he steals his instrument.

shadowboltz .

2024-07-10 23:25:03 +0000 UTC

"I see the sacrifice of man" It was never about Polities after all

shadowboltz .

2024-07-10 23:12:11 +0000 UTC

(I will preface this by saying all of what I say is based on what the musical gives us, not what the epic itself does and that I just wanna argue for a character I like because I'm passionate about this show. I'm just clarifying because I know internet discourse can get personal sometimes and I don't want that) Because I'm a dedicated Eurylochus lover I would like to add that 1. Odysseus never explains 'those deaths were unavoidable and it could've been worse' so from Eurylochus' point of view he looked at his men, weighed their value and chose 6 men he'd be happy with dying and let them do so i.e. he is now viewing his men as resources to be spent on his quest. 2. The wind bag being opened had nothing to do with the deaths of those 500 men. Those deaths were caused by Poseidon because Odysseus let his anger and pride get the better of him as well as offering mercy to Polyphemus. That is in no way Eurylochus' fault. Yes, he disobeyed orders, right after Odysseus in Luck Runs Out basically said 'I am not listening to your words of caution, just follow my orders implicitly', so I think its understandable that he stopped trusting Odysseus in that moment. Even then, he tried to immediately fess up to his mistake but was blown off. The worst Eurylochus does is trying to get Odysseus to leave the men behind at Circe's but, I'd argue that 3. That is very understandable. He was super scared and Circe is undeniably powerful. Odysseus needed moly, picked by a god, to beat her. If Circe can transmogrify people into pigs, what do you expect Eurylochus to do about that? She was clearly above him and after Ruthlessness why would he be encouraging Odysseus to send more men to their death? Yes, it was bad of him to give them up, but I think its unfair to now start villainising Eurylochus for acting like any regular person would act in that situation (this isn't directed at you specifically, its just a trend that's come up after Mutiny came out which I don't think is right). I'm not saying he's perfect or better or worse than Odysseus, but Odysseus intentionally killed 6 men (regardless of how inevitable that was) whilst Eurylochus got scared by a powerful witch and ran off. I do not want to come off as trying to frame Eurylochus as the 'good guy' in this situation, because there are no good and bad guys, but it feels unfair to say he's responsible for the death of 500 men when he most definitely isn't and then expect him to know context that he wasn't given.

Arun Oc

2024-07-10 20:53:02 +0000 UTC

Thanks for supplying the name I forgot.

Dorothy Rosenberg

2024-07-10 17:57:55 +0000 UTC

Pretty sure it means that Odysseyus is willing to do what it takes as long he survives including knowingly sacrificing his men

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-09 07:49:58 +0000 UTC

Apparently he did, which is why he told eury to light them(also implying to hand them out to others which would lead to him logically holding one)

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-09 07:48:41 +0000 UTC

“I’m so sorry” “We’ve suffered and sailed” Ah the suffering motif ☝️ /j lh

Philly Knox

2024-07-09 07:27:32 +0000 UTC

I love that eurylochus canonically has a giant sword

Geveryging

2024-07-09 06:55:15 +0000 UTC

the count from elpenors death has been included

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-08 19:41:17 +0000 UTC

In the original story, Odysseus had his men tie him to the mast (so he could hear what the sirens sang) while his men plugged their ears. This decision saved everyone. Since the one man who fell to his death on Circe’s island (in original story) hasn’t been included in Epic tale, your count is probably correct.

Dorothy Rosenberg

2024-07-08 12:29:29 +0000 UTC

But also yeah, essentially every man with a torch died. 6 men, 6 ehads, 6 sacrifices. The fact that Eurylochus did have one bothers me in the sense that idk if Odysseus intended for him to be a sacrifice or not

Sleepy.novatea

2024-07-07 17:49:00 +0000 UTC

I'm here to comment on the pinworms. I understand, trust me, I understand

Sleepy.novatea

2024-07-07 17:34:39 +0000 UTC

I may be wrong but I’m curious if other people have this theory lol

Shellxie

2024-07-07 13:46:18 +0000 UTC

I know people are saying that Odysseus made Eurylochus choose who will die from Scylla because he knew it was the cost but it also gave me the impression that Eurylochus was one of the 6 man who originally had a torch? In Odysseus order « light up 6 torches » he included him right after his confession (seems like we can see Eurylochus holding one in the animatic at the start of the attack until he lets go) and I know they have been basically "brothers" since they were children but with the line « breaking the bonds you have made » for me it was another breaking point for Odysseus where he saw Eurylochus like another men he could sacrifice since their bond and trust got broken, he didn’t even react to it like he was emotionless and detached at this point

Shellxie

2024-07-07 13:45:59 +0000 UTC

Scylla song scares me, especially the line "Do what it takes to survive" because it could mean 2 things. 1. To Odysseus as to say he told Eurylochus to light up the torches to do what it takes to survive and 2. To tell the crew to do what it takes to survive even though it was hopeless

Oceanna Denham

2024-07-07 03:07:19 +0000 UTC

He worded it so that Euylochus would keep one of the torches too, right after figuring out Eurylochus opened the bag.

Peanut Puppy Boi #Pray for Ukraine

2024-07-06 23:36:57 +0000 UTC

Odysseus knew the minimum price for passing by Scylla would mean 6 men dying (one for each of her heads). If the ship hadn’t passed quickly, another 6 would have been lost (6 were highlighted to limit losses). In the song “Suffering”, Odysseus responded to the siren that traveling that route wouldn’t be without cost. He knew that cost, told his men to row as fast as possible, & (yes) marked the 6 with touches. Note: I saw Eurylochus holding a torch - obviously, he handed it to another man - because he survived. Ironically he blames Odysseus for 6 deaths (unavoidable) just after he confesses to disobeying orders & opening the bag that caused the needless deaths of over 500 men. Odysseus is stabbed by a crew member (whose life he saved from Circe) because of Eurylochus (the man who would have abandoned that crewman as a pig to be eaten).

Dorothy Rosenberg

2024-07-06 20:59:22 +0000 UTC

Has anyone else noticed how the start of mutiny sounds just like stay alive from HAMILTON!!?

T L

2024-07-06 19:59:47 +0000 UTC

The (397th) part that makes me livid is that the "take the suffering from you" is a get-out-of-emotional-distress card. Doesn't matter what atrocities he commits, as long as he gets back to Penelope he'll feel better! And all those lessons will only have been temporary (for him)

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 18:27:33 +0000 UTC

Honestly I don't mind that he calls them brothers, but the surprised Pikachu face when they turn on him makes me want to choke a Greek. I also have a long rant about Eurylochus' state of mind in the second half of Mutiny but it's starting to sound like fanfiction and that's too long to type on a phone :')

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 18:24:12 +0000 UTC

Why does 'having his back' mean he isn't allowed to question him? A first mate is the link between the captain and his crew. It's his job to bring their concerns to Odysseus? I mean he should definitely do it in private but Odysseus just shut him down. Again, he's not faultless. The bag was his mistake but 'they want to get the bag open so they can have closure' is the line. The crew was probably getting agitated because they got told it held treasure by the wind god. He just wanted to settle them. It wouldn't have saved them from Poseidon either way. He would have just attacked them right before or on Ithaca.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 09:40:35 +0000 UTC

I like this but I don't agree. Eurylochus has doubted ody the whole time after the cave and it cost them everything.

Justin Fralin

2024-07-06 09:30:05 +0000 UTC

I think he cares! But he's ultimately selfish enough that that care doesn't matter more than his desire to go home. Which is exactly what you-know-who exposes him for. Pride & Selfishness.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 09:29:01 +0000 UTC

My problem with eurylochus is that he was always the first to doubt ody. He was his right hand and supposed to have his back. He opened the bag and sold the whole trip. And on the first thing he does after getting control of the ship is sell the whole crew again. L brother and L first mate.

Justin Fralin

2024-07-06 09:27:37 +0000 UTC

Lol all good! It's fun. Yeah kind of hypocritical for him to be willing to sacrifice them but then call them brothers in the next sentence. Maybe he was expecting the crew to side with him not Eurylochus? Idk. But it's not like Eurylochus doesn't do the same thing: starting a mutiny and then turning around and calling Odysseus friend. Their antagonism in the moment doesn't erase the probable decades they've been friends and that's okay! Humans are complicated and have big emotions. They've just finally reached the point where there's no good decisions and that's the tragedy. Even if they hadn't killed the cows, they probably would have starved to death lol

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 09:24:31 +0000 UTC

Yeah, he doesn't care. And he still has the gall to ask why his men would turn on him. If you're going to be The Monster (Rawr Rawr Rawr) at least own it, you know?

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 09:21:59 +0000 UTC

The moment he said "my brothers, why?" it was over for me. Really? He has to ask? Does he even realize that these men are humans with wishes of their own who maybe don't want to be eaten as part of his gambit to get back to his wife? His making mistakes is fine, but I can't stand characters who think they're the Main Character of the World (especially when that view is supported by the narrative) ... And I was going to stop, wasn't I

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 09:17:44 +0000 UTC

True, but the problem here is Odysseus doesn't care. He's going home whether they want to or not. Which is why he didn't bother telling them. Because he knew they would say no. And he can't handle them saying no. Just a man has foreshadowed a ton of events but I believe "When does the reason become the blame" is talking about odysseus's desperation to return to Penelope. It's the reason he's doing everything and it's to blame for everything he's done.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 08:35:43 +0000 UTC

It's the pragmatic choice, but not letting his men know in advance what he was getting them into was the unconscionable choice. I'm sure a fair number of them would have chosen to give up on going home instead of becoming human sacrifices.

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 08:32:41 +0000 UTC

*sudden switch up. God I can't type 😂

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 08:32:34 +0000 UTC

I'm pretty sure no men were killed by the sirens, and that they were only trying to turn his men into snacks, which would put him at 43 - Elpenor - 6 torch holders for 36 men left

JimmWasHere

2024-07-06 08:32:25 +0000 UTC

I don't hate Odysseus. He made some stupid ass decisions for sure but again they were human decisions! That's the whole point! They're human! They make mistakes and have to live with the consequences! But boy this doesn't switch up to demonizing Eurylochus I've been seeing online is NOT IT. :(

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 08:31:56 +0000 UTC

AND ANOTHER THING-- (I have way too much rage about Odysseus)

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 08:25:39 +0000 UTC

nah I empathize with Eurylochus despite his bad choices, and hate Odysseus for literally everything he's ever said or done. YOU DON'T ASK FOR FORGIVENESS WHILE YOU'RE DOING THE BAD THING, WTF. EITHER DON'T DO IT AT ALL OR ACCEPT THE BURDEN OF YOUR OWN CHOICES INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR VICTIM TO ABSOLVE YOU

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 08:23:52 +0000 UTC

Yes, the moment when he realizES that he handED his torch to someone else. It's fairly obvious in the animation that he had no idea what the torches were about... until he did.

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-06 08:20:01 +0000 UTC

I think that Eury started the mutiny not because Ody sacrficed 6 men but because he intended on Eury holding one of the six torches (assuming the animatic is canon)

Tristan Acevedo

2024-07-06 06:59:30 +0000 UTC

*maybe not baby 🤣

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 06:46:35 +0000 UTC

Yeah but can they really be saved from unknown creature/god of unknown power?? Odysseus got lucky with Hermes. And the line is 'Think about the men we have left before there's none Let's just cut our losses, you and I, and let's run.' So that means at least part of the crew was uncaptured and they could escape before attracting the attention of said unknown creature/ goddess. Again, I'm not trying to imply eurylochus isn't coldblooded or blameless. Or even that Ody's plan with Scylla was bad. But I can see how the sudden switch in behavior from Ody could break what little trust Eurylochus has left. As much as mutiny showcases his anger at Ody, he still wraps his wounds and keeps him alive after the others knock him out. And he clearly still sees them as friends in the second half. Both of them do. Unfortunately, I think it's just a case of two people, both being in very bad places mentally, clashing in a horrible way. He shouldn't have killed the cattle but it's real easy to say don't do it when you aren't starving, exhausted and emotionally drained. Idk baby, I'm defending him too much but it just feels like everyone suddenly against him from what I've seen on various platforms. I think there's enough room for both of them to be wrong and right at the same time.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 06:45:39 +0000 UTC

"We have to go save them, No we don't", "Let's just cut our losses, you and I, and let's run" The lines imply they could be saved but it would risk losing himself or more men. Sacrifcing 6 men was the pragmatic/realistic option, Scylla is a creature that Posideon (the man who killed most of his man) dares not go

Tristan Acevedo

2024-07-06 06:24:01 +0000 UTC

In the rest of the livestream, they did some justifying of the god's backing vocals. Poseidon's are the giants, for example. Can't remember all of the examples atm though. Mostly saying that Scylla's backing vocals are probably her other mouths than a magical chorus, since it seems like Jorge is trying to justify as much of those choruses as diegetically as possible.

Kyle Clark

2024-07-06 05:20:02 +0000 UTC

Odysseus not only lit up six torches so there could be one man per head, he made sure Eurylochus was the one to light them up & hand them out right after Eurylochus confessed to opening the wind bag. Now I wonder if Odysseus already had the six men he was going to sacrifice to Scylla picked out before Eurylochus confessed or if he decided after learning the truth (basically choosing to have Eurylochus pick out the lambs for slaughter like he did back in the Ocean saga by opening the bag).

niteangel496

2024-07-06 05:18:28 +0000 UTC

with the circe thing, eurylochus did advocate for leaving but it sounded more like he thought them already dead? like circe was a creature/god of unknown power they couldn't fight (hermes had to help and that wasn't something they know? just a lucky coincidence). Heartless, true, but I feel that's different than a deliberate sacrifice like this is. (everyone like hates eurylochus now and it makes me sad :( ) I've seen a lot of people look at eurylochus & polites as the 'devil & angel' on ody's shoulders and I don't think its that moralistic at all. It's more pragmatism and optimism. Both are good, but one has to sit on a spectrum between them, not just one extreme to the other.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 05:16:30 +0000 UTC

I don't think he did it on purpose? like he handed his off and ran to save another dude. I think its when he sees the other guys torch hit the ground that he realizes and turns around to try to get to the guy he handed his off to.

CelestialMoonDragon

2024-07-06 05:05:26 +0000 UTC

It's so funny to me that you sung the wind god part of luck runs out in the beginning when you're going to watch mutiny. Prophet casper may be real but prophet mortius is secretly lurking behind him lol

Basilily

2024-07-06 04:55:00 +0000 UTC

I mean... same.

Toaster of Doom

2024-07-06 04:53:21 +0000 UTC

To quote my friend when Scylla appeared while we were watching the live stream, "Smash"

Box Fox

2024-07-06 03:59:45 +0000 UTC

I find it so funny how you said "when does a man beome a monster" in the last video and at the beginning on this one you sang "we're in the home of the wind god" because both of those makes an appearance in this saga. Its not just Prophet Casper anymore!

Lauren Hedman

2024-07-06 03:41:20 +0000 UTC

I think the really sinsister thing about the torches in Scylla is that Odysseus didn't distribute them himself. He made Eurylocus light and distribute them, making him unknowingly choose the sacrifices.

Ithiryn

2024-07-06 03:13:20 +0000 UTC

~pinworms~

Rowan Zimney

2024-07-06 02:52:46 +0000 UTC

There actually does seem to be a thematic connection. Eurylocus speed runs ody's arc to the worse possible end. Guilt, Watching a friend die, approaching and unknown God and doing the one thing you're not supposed to do, which leads to upsetting one of the three brothers, Zeus in this case, and then everyone dies because of your mistake. He left Ody alive just like Ody left Polythemus alive. Which leads to Ruthlessness is Mercy. because we the audience have been willing to forgive Odysseus for so much because we've been with him the whole show, it helps to have this little micro summary of his actions. Because no one has been willing to forgive Eurylucus because his actions but his actions are a direct mirror of Odysseus'.

Takeyia Twitty

2024-07-06 01:25:42 +0000 UTC

I have a secret, What, Mutiny. STAB (Love ya Mortius!!)

Kr1s

2024-07-05 23:53:23 +0000 UTC

She was singing to Ody the whole time. I think the first line "you have a reason for shame" is because Odysseus had already decided to sacrifice his men. That's why he'd been quiet that day

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 22:27:43 +0000 UTC

Ah, the long debates on the canon status of Word of God 😂

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 22:25:36 +0000 UTC

Athena 100% doesn't care about cruelty so long as it serves the greater strategy. I firmly believe that if Zeus hadn't told Ody about Hector's son's future, Athena would have said exactly the same thing. One could make the argument that Poseidon didn't have to be so over the top as he was when he destroyed the fleet, but if we remember the lyric from Monster "and now no one dares to piss him off." Ody slaughtering the sirens like that had the same energy. I think he knew that he'd get the crew's distrust and just chose to risk it since he had no other choice. I bet he thought that he could cope with it as long as he managed go get them home.

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 22:22:59 +0000 UTC

once you've encountered the monster, yes, but beforehand?

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 22:22:07 +0000 UTC

the difference is just if its actually said in epic, which in this case its not. same thing with a certain person in ithaca, not elaborating for spoiler reasons

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 20:41:47 +0000 UTC

To not give the six heads time to chew?

William Watson

2024-07-05 20:40:53 +0000 UTC

You do make a lot of good points. I guess it just feels stupid since we know it will cause his men to distrust him. It felt like when he told Eurylochus to light the torches, it was revenge. I don’t know if dummies with lights would have distracted Scylla just as well. Maybe with something sticky on the dummies too. That could slow the heads down. 🤷‍♀️ And he was cruel with the Sirens, didn’t just kill them but made them suffer, slowly. Maybe Athena doesn’t care either way. As long as he gets the job done. But again, it makes the actions feel more emotional, just rage and vengeance, not the closed off Athena wants.

Breanna Marino

2024-07-05 20:23:18 +0000 UTC

yeah but what's the difference between Jorge's headcanons and Epic canon? 🤔

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 20:07:43 +0000 UTC

tbf i think its just jorges headcanon, i dont think its actually in the odyssee lol

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 20:04:19 +0000 UTC

Same! You could see the buffering as it clicked

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-05 20:01:19 +0000 UTC

Ok I'm going to stop spreading my absolute hatred at Odysseus now and just say this: why would you go "full speed ahead" when you're in the pitch-black lair of a monster? WHY

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 20:00:11 +0000 UTC

Maybe that's why peri specifically stabbed Ody, possibly blamed him for elps death

Phoenix Mackenzie

2024-07-05 19:59:44 +0000 UTC

Pretty sure if given the choice most of those men would have chosen to finish their lives raising goats on the nearest island. But nooooo

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 19:59:09 +0000 UTC

And let the first mate unknowingly choose who will die instead of taking that responsibility yourself!

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 19:57:19 +0000 UTC

I wonder what kind of falling out they had on or before Circe's island for Perimedes to neither notice nor care that Elpenor died

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 19:56:18 +0000 UTC

"hey guys this is what I'm planning to do, if you want to get off the ship do it at the next island, if you stay you're entering the scylla snack lottery" But Zeus forbid Odysseus give his men any sort of agency, or put himself at risk when he can sacrifice someone else instead

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 19:55:17 +0000 UTC

Yep...and worse, HE didn't even sacrifice the men. He made Eurylochus do it. He told him to light six torches and hand them out. And Eurylochus had one in his hand, until he gave it away to try to save one of the men, and then in the animatic the man he gave it to was eaten. Leading to Scylla's 'We are the same, you and I...." to Odysseus... She knew. Just like he knew already back when the Siren's told him: 'but Scylla has a cost'.

Kristina (LadyGreensleeves33)

2024-07-05 19:43:36 +0000 UTC

Oh that moment when Eurylochus realizes that the torches are markers for death and he handed his to someone else 😭

draeonic 🪼

2024-07-05 19:38:35 +0000 UTC

I think Athena would look on what Ody did as perfect. Killing the sirens meant they wouldn't be a problem later while he was still on the sea. Sacrificing 6 to protect the ship and the rest of the crew was a small price to pay for the greater victory. Ody didn't have the means or manpower to fight Scylla head on, guile wasn't an option, and she couldn't be avoided. It was cool, calculated, and frankly brilliant strategy. And utterly ruthless. That's the general she raised. That's the closed-off heart she wanted to see.

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 19:30:32 +0000 UTC

Not anymore. 😬

Imara121

2024-07-05 19:25:50 +0000 UTC

I mean the prophet did say betrayals…plural. I’m not so sure Athena would like this Odysseus either. Too much rage and not enough wisdom. Athena was telling Odysseus to kill a threat, not sacrifice your men and run. Literally not using his mind.

Breanna Marino

2024-07-05 19:21:50 +0000 UTC

To add onto what you've already pieced together. Ody ordered Eurylochus to light the torches, and we see in the animatic that he is holding one when Scylla shows herself. In the next one while they're running and the men are getting eaten, we see he handed his torch to another crew mate before figuring out that only the men with torches are being devoured. So while I agree that he's being a hypocrite by going the exact opposite argument as he was with Circe,( not to mention the reason Poseidon found them was because he opened the bag) I think Eurylochus is as pissed off as he is because the whole ship just had a near death experience, and he's grappling with the fact that he himself almost didn't come out of the cave. Also Odysseus it was a huge gamble going in regardless. It was either signal to Scylla who to take or risk the entire ship being massacred in the dark.

Ryan Torres

2024-07-05 19:08:14 +0000 UTC

Scylla can’t be killed by mortal means. The only way to get past her is to distract and run. By sacrificing six, he saved 36 others. That’s why when the sirens are telling him about Scylla he said “but Scylla has a cost.” So yeah. He knew. And he chose to do what he could to spare the majority instead of getting everyone killed trying to fight her. Doesn’t make it easier to swallow but ultimately it was the right choice.

ShadowFox1412

2024-07-05 19:06:24 +0000 UTC

Yeah, Jorge has said directly that something similar happens in a future song, to not spoil Mortius on that though think of the behind the scenes tik Tok where Jorge says that Athena's music in Remember Them is in triplets because she is trying to get Odysseus to act more like Poseidon whose music is always in triplets. Similarly if someone uses someone else's instrument it can be because they are trying to act like them or replace then

Caleb Craven

2024-07-05 19:04:47 +0000 UTC

also, he knew this before seeing scylla, bc in suffering: scylla comes with a cost

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 18:59:55 +0000 UTC

fun fact; perimedes' best friend was elpenor :D

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 18:57:03 +0000 UTC

the electric guitar in mutiny is eurylochus' Instrument bc he is trying to take odys place

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 18:53:37 +0000 UTC

Such a dark move. First mate tells you he's the reason you didn't get home back before Poseidon killed everyone. Your reaction? Tell him to light some torches. Knowing everyone holding a torch is gonna be lunch. Monster Odysseus is definitely not holding back.

Imara121

2024-07-05 18:51:48 +0000 UTC

i love how eurylochus takes odys job in scylla, trying to save their men and being devastated on his knees after (like ody in ruthlessness) and odys is just standing there, looking forward. also, ody told eurylochus to light up six torches, so he intended to sacrifice six men, eurylochus included, but eurylochus gives his torch away trying to save someone else..

jayden_arsonew

2024-07-05 18:44:37 +0000 UTC

I think Eurylochus was also scared on Circe’s island and felt guilty, because it was just after the aftermath of Ruthlessness, where 500+ men died because he opened the wind bag.

MildlyPerturbed

2024-07-05 18:44:19 +0000 UTC

As horrifying as sacrificing 6 men is... the other option was everyone dying due to Poseidon. It does make sense but is immensely cruel.

Michelle Schaefer

2024-07-05 18:44:01 +0000 UTC

Ditto

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 18:40:26 +0000 UTC

Thunder Saga is my favorite saga out of everything released, and by god my new favorite songs out of Epic are now Scylla, Mutiny, and Thunder Bringer. The vocal performance in all 3 are incredible! But Scylla is the absolute standout for me because of the animation (now canonized by Jorge, since he commissioned the art and animations shown on the livestream to show his actual vision of the song). Scylla’s design is AMAZING, the carnage was HORRIFYING, and Eurylochus realizing after he handed his torch to the next killed crew member that Odysseus was MARKING MEMBERS TO BE SACRIFICED…. ABSOLUTE CINEMA!!! And since the animation is canon, I have to wonder if Odysseus ordered Eurylochus to get the torches knowing he’d hold one too, thus signing EURYLOCHUS’ death sentence. Was the wind bag reveal the final straw? AGHHH SO COOL

Mal

2024-07-05 18:40:20 +0000 UTC

Your stunned face when you realized Odysseus knowingly sacrificed the six men by giving them torches broke my heart!

Laura Duarte

2024-07-05 18:37:53 +0000 UTC

No, there’s like 42 men left (minus Elpenor). The reason why Odysseus made six men light up six torches so that they could be sacrificed so the other men could escape. Six men, six heads. One man for each head. It was either that, or all 42 men die. Edit: Sorry, I made this comment before finishing the video. Your assessment was correct 😁

MildlyPerturbed

2024-07-05 18:34:46 +0000 UTC

I thought the heads were why Scylla had multiple harmonies.

MildlyPerturbed

2024-07-05 18:31:42 +0000 UTC

It's only a Mutiny if more than 4 cremated are involved. Otherwise it's called "sparkling betrayal."

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 18:29:58 +0000 UTC

You're reading it right. And he gave Eurylochus one of those torches.

Alcaria Swain

2024-07-05 18:22:10 +0000 UTC

Mortius I will say you missed a detail in Scylla with the torches and who was holding them. I wont give it away but it was makes that whole scene and the rest of the saga even more. (The animations during the live stream are cannon and you were correct about the 6 torches and 6 heads)

Halo May

2024-07-05 18:20:22 +0000 UTC

Yep. I also think that when Ody says at the beginning of Scylla, "this is our only way home," he's trying to convince himself that there's no other choice than to do what he's about to do.

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 18:17:35 +0000 UTC

Hard agree with the idea of going through it once for the full experience. I rather like the way Casper does it where he does a listen though and then goes back to sections to analyze.

Anon E. Mouse

2024-07-05 18:16:19 +0000 UTC

Jorge did warn us in a TikTok that when it came to Scylla he wanted to give the audience nightmares. I think he succeeded.

Jacob Minger

2024-07-05 18:10:20 +0000 UTC

Eurylochus is literally begging Odysseus to convince him that he had nothing to do with what just happened.

Lukas The Spider Fanatic

2024-07-05 18:08:46 +0000 UTC

After underworld there was 42 left. After scylla there were 36 left Also I interpreted the guitar behind Eurylochus being that he is trying to replace Odysseus

Chase Elmquist

2024-07-05 18:01:42 +0000 UTC

I do wish sometimes you’d watch the entire thing before stopping and analyzing. I feel like you are lessening your own experience, cause listening to it as a whole is so so cool and immersing. Like, when you watched the whole Ody vs Eurylicus fight and YOUR FACE, dude 😂 Great video though! Love you insights as always! ❤️ ALSO, Ody told Eurylicus to light 6 torches. Notice how he never said to hand them out. 👀 Eurylicus also had a torch in the animatics until it was knocked from his hand. After his betrayal, Odysseus wanted to make Eurylicus a part of the sacrifices🤭 Betrayals all around in this saga

Kathrine0114

2024-07-05 17:58:46 +0000 UTC

Listen to the thunder saga on Spotify? XD Mort, my friend, what do you think is my top 100 of songs this year, ONLY EPIC (and anime op). So no problem

Mager

2024-07-05 17:53:04 +0000 UTC

Someone pointed out in the original audio that the song “No longer you” the line was “I see portrayals of betrayals.” Plural. 😱

Breanna Marino

2024-07-05 17:42:16 +0000 UTC

Scylla + Mutiny1 | Epic The Musical Unedited Reaction

Comments

Ah yes, my favourite epic the musical song, mut

One of my favorite parts of Scylla is the fact you can hear the screams of the men who died and how Jorge layered Scylla's voice. There's also a really interesting video about Eurylochus and his instrument motif (or lack there of) which I think you would find really interesting.

So, with confirmation from the epic discord. Odysseus purposefully tried to sacrifice eurylochus to scylla with the torches plan, to k!ll him for his betrayal in opening the windbag. The only reason he failed is because eurylochus gave away his torch at the last second to try and save man 5

They wanted him to be ruthless and focuse on getting his crew home, not to be outright cruel and literally sacrifice his own crew which keeping secrets

I think as soon as they leave Scylia's lair Eury notices finally notices how much of a monster Odysseus became and that the person he was looking at was not his friend but someone he had to take down to make sure the crew survived.

The rest of the crew probably are at least starting to see eury as their new leader too at this point so it makes sense

Even worse with the six torches, is that Ody didn’t even give then out himself, he had Eury do it, which I think adds another layer to his anger at Ody

Jorge released a video about mutiny recently saying that the reason there's electric guitar for Eurylochus is that he;s trying to take Odysseus's place, so he steals his instrument.

"I see the sacrifice of man" It was never about Polities after all

Thanks for supplying the name I forgot.

Pretty sure it means that Odysseyus is willing to do what it takes as long he survives including knowingly sacrificing his men

Apparently he did, which is why he told eury to light them(also implying to hand them out to others which would lead to him logically holding one)

“I’m so sorry” “We’ve suffered and sailed” Ah the suffering motif ☝️ /j lh

I love that eurylochus canonically has a giant sword

the count from elpenors death has been included

But also yeah, essentially every man with a torch died. 6 men, 6 ehads, 6 sacrifices. The fact that Eurylochus did have one bothers me in the sense that idk if Odysseus intended for him to be a sacrifice or not

I'm here to comment on the pinworms. I understand, trust me, I understand

I may be wrong but I’m curious if other people have this theory lol

Scylla song scares me, especially the line "Do what it takes to survive" because it could mean 2 things. 1. To Odysseus as to say he told Eurylochus to light up the torches to do what it takes to survive and 2. To tell the crew to do what it takes to survive even though it was hopeless

He worded it so that Euylochus would keep one of the torches too, right after figuring out Eurylochus opened the bag.

Has anyone else noticed how the start of mutiny sounds just like stay alive from HAMILTON!!?

The (397th) part that makes me livid is that the "take the suffering from you" is a get-out-of-emotional-distress card. Doesn't matter what atrocities he commits, as long as he gets back to Penelope he'll feel better! And all those lessons will only have been temporary (for him)

I like this but I don't agree. Eurylochus has doubted ody the whole time after the cave and it cost them everything.

I think he cares! But he's ultimately selfish enough that that care doesn't matter more than his desire to go home. Which is exactly what you-know-who exposes him for. Pride & Selfishness.

My problem with eurylochus is that he was always the first to doubt ody. He was his right hand and supposed to have his back. He opened the bag and sold the whole trip. And on the first thing he does after getting control of the ship is sell the whole crew again. L brother and L first mate.

Yeah, he doesn't care. And he still has the gall to ask why his men would turn on him. If you're going to be The Monster (Rawr Rawr Rawr) at least own it, you know?

It's the pragmatic choice, but not letting his men know in advance what he was getting them into was the unconscionable choice. I'm sure a fair number of them would have chosen to give up on going home instead of becoming human sacrifices.

*sudden switch up. God I can't type 😂

I'm pretty sure no men were killed by the sirens, and that they were only *trying* to turn his men into snacks, which would put him at 43 - Elpenor - 6 torch holders for 36 men left

I don't hate Odysseus. He made some stupid ass decisions for sure but again they were human decisions! That's the whole point! They're human! They make mistakes and have to live with the consequences! But boy this doesn't switch up to demonizing Eurylochus I've been seeing online is NOT IT. :(

AND ANOTHER THING-- (I have way too much rage about Odysseus)

Yes, the moment when he realizES that he handED his torch to someone else. It's fairly obvious in the animation that he had no idea what the torches were about... until he did.

I think that Eury started the mutiny not because Ody sacrficed 6 men but because he intended on Eury holding one of the six torches (assuming the animatic is canon)

*maybe not baby 🤣

I don't think he did it on purpose? like he handed his off and ran to save another dude. I think its when he sees the other guys torch hit the ground that he realizes and turns around to try to get to the guy he handed his off to.

It's so funny to me that you sung the wind god part of luck runs out in the beginning when you're going to watch mutiny. Prophet casper may be real but prophet mortius is secretly lurking behind him lol

I mean... same.

To quote my friend when Scylla appeared while we were watching the live stream, "Smash"

I find it so funny how you said "when does a man beome a monster" in the last video and at the beginning on this one you sang "we're in the home of the wind god" because both of those makes an appearance in this saga. Its not just Prophet Casper anymore!

I think the really sinsister thing about the torches in Scylla is that Odysseus didn't distribute them himself. He made Eurylocus light and distribute them, making him unknowingly choose the sacrifices.

~pinworms~

I have a secret, What, Mutiny. STAB (Love ya Mortius!!)

She was singing to Ody the whole time. I think the first line "you have a reason for shame" is because Odysseus had already decided to sacrifice his men. That's why he'd been quiet that day

Ah, the long debates on the canon status of Word of God 😂

once you've encountered the monster, yes, but beforehand?

the difference is just if its actually said in epic, which in this case its not. same thing with a certain person in ithaca, not elaborating for spoiler reasons

To not give the six heads time to chew?

yeah but what's the difference between Jorge's headcanons and Epic canon? 🤔

tbf i think its just jorges headcanon, i dont think its actually in the odyssee lol

Same! You could see the buffering as it clicked

Ok I'm going to stop spreading my absolute hatred at Odysseus now and just say this: why would you go "full speed ahead" when you're in the pitch-black lair of a monster? WHY

Maybe that's why peri specifically stabbed Ody, possibly blamed him for elps death

Pretty sure if given the choice most of those men would have chosen to finish their lives raising goats on the nearest island. But nooooo

And let the first mate unknowingly choose who will die instead of taking that responsibility yourself!

I wonder what kind of falling out they had on or before Circe's island for Perimedes to neither notice nor care that Elpenor died

"hey guys this is what I'm planning to do, if you want to get off the ship do it at the next island, if you stay you're entering the scylla snack lottery" But Zeus forbid Odysseus give his men any sort of agency, or put himself at risk when he can sacrifice someone else instead

Oh that moment when Eurylochus realizes that the torches are markers for death and he handed his to someone else 😭

Not anymore. 😬

I mean the prophet did say betrayals…plural. I’m not so sure Athena would like this Odysseus either. Too much rage and not enough wisdom. Athena was telling Odysseus to kill a threat, not sacrifice your men and run. Literally not using his mind.

also, he knew this before seeing scylla, bc in suffering: scylla comes with a cost

fun fact; perimedes' best friend was elpenor :D

the electric guitar in mutiny is eurylochus' Instrument bc he is trying to take odys place

Such a dark move. First mate tells you he's the reason you didn't get home back before Poseidon killed everyone. Your reaction? Tell him to light some torches. Knowing everyone holding a torch is gonna be lunch. Monster Odysseus is definitely not holding back.

I think Eurylochus was also scared on Circe’s island and felt guilty, because it was just after the aftermath of Ruthlessness, where 500+ men died because he opened the wind bag.

As horrifying as sacrificing 6 men is... the other option was everyone dying due to Poseidon. It does make sense but is immensely cruel.

Ditto

Your stunned face when you realized Odysseus knowingly sacrificed the six men by giving them torches broke my heart!

I thought the heads were why Scylla had multiple harmonies.

It's only a Mutiny if more than 4 cremated are involved. Otherwise it's called "sparkling betrayal."

You're reading it right. And he gave Eurylochus one of those torches.

Mortius I will say you missed a detail in Scylla with the torches and who was holding them. I wont give it away but it was makes that whole scene and the rest of the saga even more. (The animations during the live stream are cannon and you were correct about the 6 torches and 6 heads)

Yep. I also think that when Ody says at the beginning of Scylla, "this is our only way home," he's trying to convince himself that there's no other choice than to do what he's about to do.

Hard agree with the idea of going through it once for the full experience. I rather like the way Casper does it where he does a listen though and then goes back to sections to analyze.

Jorge did warn us in a TikTok that when it came to Scylla he wanted to give the audience nightmares. I think he succeeded.

Eurylochus is literally begging Odysseus to convince him that he had nothing to do with what just happened.

After underworld there was 42 left. After scylla there were 36 left Also I interpreted the guitar behind Eurylochus being that he is trying to replace Odysseus

Listen to the thunder saga on Spotify? XD Mort, my friend, what do you think is my top 100 of songs this year, ONLY EPIC (and anime op). So no problem

Someone pointed out in the original audio that the song “No longer you” the line was “I see portrayals of betrayals.” Plural. 😱

I'm pretty sure no men were killed by the sirens, and that they were only trying to turn his men into snacks, which would put him at 43 - Elpenor - 6 torch holders for 36 men left