Angel S03E06 - Billy FULL REACTION

I think the real problem with this story is that it is saying that behavior is something intrinsic in males that they have been socialized out of. That it is the very basest nature but it _is_ nature. The sort of "boys will be boys" type of idea. Yes it's super upsetting, Looking back on it from where we are now, where even the idea of gender is changing and evolving, much less the "normal" roles, it feels very obtuse. Even with their good intentions of highlighting a real in world experience.

Melazond

Yeah, this is a rough episode. Alexis Denisov does way too good a job at being quietly menacing and belittling.

UTU49

I think this episode is odd because they're usually a lot more metaphoric about the problems they're addressing, so it comes off as too on-the-nose. On the other hand I *love* the scene between Cordy and Lilah, and Lilah showing up at the end.

FernWithy

Cheer-jitsu.

Patrick - Excelsior

If I was going to name one peeve with this episode, it would be that it seems to portray men as victims of an innate beastliness. The episode seems to invoke more sympathy for Wesley than for Fred.

Sorry of course I didn’t mean all guys!! Just the ones who were actively shitting on this episode. I remember seeing so much hate for it when it first aired. But, yeah it is super uncomfortable to watch.

Fizzy

Right there with you Shan! Never watched this episode before. This was super uncomfortable. Wesley totally went Jack Torrance there. I think I still liked it though. I like shows that take their characters to some really dark places (as long as they learn from it).

Alexandra Wege

Challenging ep, and judging by the comments, the guys have just as much trouble watching it. But with a little courage, this imaginary tv show can allow us to challenge ourselves and perhaps gain real life wisdoms...and creeped out and comforted at the same time!

raymond julien

So what do you call cheerleader martial arts?

raymond julien

I enjoy this episode as it has some serious horror movie vibes. I watch shows for entertainment and yes this episode can be uncomfortable at times but it ain’t real so I quickly move on.

Nichole Hutchison

Yeah, this is one of those dark episodes that really makes us uncomfortable with the characters, like some dark Angel episodes before and the Gunn episode and Untouched. It's not a bad episode, but very creepy in a way that monster/demon episodes are not. I wonder how much the Shining influenced it. But this episode shines in some character moments, Cordy, Wes and Fred and Lilah (gasp!), even if their lives were on the line and their spirits broken, they have now grown even more in surviving. That Lilah and Cordy confrontation was great. And not sure, but my theory was that Billy was killed or died somehow and went to Hell, given a body or his soul manifested it in order to torture him to punish him. Then Angel gets him out. Or maybe he was just taken alive straight to Hell by the Powers or something. :)

David Caine

I understand why it made you uncomfortable, but I loved this episode. The Lilah/Cordelia apartment moment is one of my favorite scenes from this season. It’s nice to see two powerful female characters interact with each other. Lilah shooting Billy was amazing. I know there’s tons of guys who feel some type of way about this episode, which just shows how even more important it is. It’s a commentary on innate misogyny and domestic violence. The fact that they get more mad at the episode then the content of it shows that this episode is needed. I do think the stuff with Wesley went a little overboard imo. It was too heavy handed, but the intention was there.

Fizzy

Episodes like Untouched and Billy challenge us more than they entertain us.

Mike Woodcock

Aren't relatable/realistic stories supposed to affect viewers in such a manner? I thought that was the point of this storyline and how it was presented.

Rey Gallogo

I agree with what a lot of others have already said, this really is an uncomfortable episode to watch and I think that’s the intention. I will add that I love Alexis Denisof’s acting here. I mean, when did you ever think that Wes could downright frighten you like that. And this is just classic Whedon, pulling the rug out from under us with another potential happy ‘ship. Something always goes wrong.... Side note: I love the part when (and you may have missed this ASR) Lilah says: “yea I’ve seen his [Angel’s] dark side” and Cordy replies: “you really haven’t”, with an expression on her face almost like she’s offended that someone like Lilah would boast about living through the terror that is Angelus, but Cordy knows better. I just always love that of all the characters on Angel, Cordy is still the ONLY one that has actually ever met Angelus. And also Cordy starts training to fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ariel17

I understand why you felt so uncomfortable. It is hard for me to watch too, though I consider it one of the better episodes due to Alexis's performance as Wesley.

Chip

wrong video

Paul Gibson

Stop watching if you feel uncomfortable. I personally loved the episode, it tackled real life aspects which yes are disturbing and disgusting but it all came full circle at the end with Cordy confronting Billy.

I wonder if it gets harder to watch because the times they have changed and hopefully we’ve changed with them for the better…..I find a lot of stuff on tv that only bothered me a little now disturbs me a lot more….society and time has made be more sensitive to certain issues and themes? Though this episode is/was pretty heavy handed even back when I first saw it, still I’ve know people who expressed similarly horrible ideas as some in this episode….sad but true.

Shashank

this is one of my favorite angel episodes. it's genuinely dark and creepy and lilah coming through at the end to save the day solidified my love for her.

cil

Shannan, if you really don't like an episode and can't watch it - just stop. I'm sure your fans will understand, since we are here to enjoy the shows with you, not torture you for amusement. A bit of trivia: Joss Whedon actually created a backstory for Billy, but it wasn't included in the show. Billy's mother was a demon (non-violent one) and she was raped by Billy's father (human) and the actual destructive power that Billy has came from his human/father's side.

Scarlett Monrow

This is a tough one to watch, and I don't blame you or anyone else for not liking it for that reason alone. I enjoy it as an episode but it's really horrifying and disturbing on so many levels. I do think it's interesting, Angel's insistence that this is something that's "brought out" vs. Fred's insistence that it's something "inflicted on" - the episode leaves it unclear which is the truth, which is disturbing in its own right. All of that said, hats off to Alexis Denisof's acting in this episode... he was very true to life.

Arianne Kay

Arrgh. This week's Buffyverse rewatch stops on Billy. I was wondering if ASR would fine it to be an extra creepy story. Think I need to watch the Xander vs Harmony fight a couple times to clear out the icks. :)

CaptainNice

A lot has been written about whether Joss is a feminist because of his portrayal of strong female heroines, or whether he's kind of a sexist because of episodes like this. I think he absolutely means well. He tries to address feminist themes through episodes like this, but at the time at least he didn't fully appreciate how powerful these themes are. You have to do it with a lot of care, and in episodes like this even though it is against violence against women, the way it spells out the thought processes of violent abusive men gives a little too much credence to those bad ideas. He milks those emotions without enough heed to how it will be for actual viewers. Also, the way the story is laid out, it suggests that a) violent sexism is "natural" or "primordial" for all men, and / or b) that it's some kind of outside force that men aren't responsible for. All in all, some very mixed messages, not all of them intentional, but adding up to a lot of pain without much good to show for it.

Andrew Pulrang

For some reason this episode gets more uncomfortable the more times I watch it. The first time it was like "urgh" but now it's even beyond that. So yeah, I understand your emotions towards it. On the plus side, Fred taking out Wes really showed what Fred can bring to the table when it comes to fighting :P

4Tom4lepus4

This one is hard to watch sometimes because for once, an episode of angel where this stuff can happen in real life.

Kelly Marie

"no one should have to!" well said Shan!

Titan Gaming

Jarrod Wild