Angel S04E07 - Apocalypse Nowish FULL REACTION

Eww are you proud of being a pedo?

BiPolar HoneyBear

LMFAO @ every lil twat bitchin' 'bout Cordy/Connor!!! XDDDDD #GetItConnor !!!!

Diiirk706

Also my favorite demon. That's why I'm so torn about this episode. I both love and hate it.

Patric Nilsson

Yeah, I really hated that scene. So disturbing and disgusting, and sadly I'm sure there are fans who loved it (because I have seen how twisted some fans can be where this is nothing in comparison). There was a reason for it (that I wont take up here) but I wish Joss had thought up another way.

Patric Nilsson

"... the grossest ship ever." Absolutely the grossest ship ever. And my grandfather had a little yacht made of whale testicles.

UTU49

I did add in a few thoughts above, after seeing that some people think this ship is fine, because Connor is 18 and they are both consenting adults. So although most peeps are grossed out by this ship, I added some of my thoughts as to why it's not only gross but messed up - as in emotionally unhealthy.

Bellatronics

So Fucked Up!! The Grossest Grossy Thing of Grossyness. Obviously talking Connor/Cordy. I have NEVER heard of anyone thinking that this is anywhere near ok, and I have not read the comments above yet to see if anyone does - kinda dreading that thought. He may have grown up and be 18, but CORDY - YOU WERE HOLDING HIM AS A FRICKIN BABY AND CHANGING HIS NAPPY . ( Soz for all caps - well kinda - it felt necessary, Lol). She was a mother figure/stand in - and yes, only 8 months ago ( according to Cordy's comment in the last episode). PLUS Cordy is in love with his father - and then having sex with the teenage son? Eeeewwww. Cordy's about 23 here, Conner might be 18 but he SO does not have the emotional maturity of an 18 year old, cos he didn't grow up on earth in a human society. ( I thought he was only 16 til it was mentioned.) He’s also emotionally very fucked up, by growing up in Quor’toth and Holtz messing with his mind, he’s very obviously not very emotionally stable - so Cordy choosing to do something so messed up with him? Just confuse the boy. And it’s like Connor considers himself in some kinda competition with his dad - including in the area of sexual relationships - he doesn’t get that this is not considered healthy. Cordy doing this, is like they've undone all of the maturity and wisdom of her character. And like she doesn't care about Angel at all any more. It's one thing Cordy kissing him when she has no memory of herself or anyone else - she doesn't remember being like a mother to him as a baby, she doesn't remember loving Angel - it was still gross though. But after she gets her memory back - WTF??! Just WHY WOULD Cordy ???? THIS is one of the main reasons that a lot of people don't like season 4. What WERE the writers thinking? Now , the rest of the episode is pretty damn good. The Volcano Guy :D - is a pretty good beasty, obviously very tough and hard to beat, to it's good to have a real threat ( which seems to not only be down to strength/height but also his tough 'rock' skin). But it's not just being physically intimidating - he's seems to have actually brought on the apocalypse, so quite a threat. Shouldn't someone be beeping Buffy? The other thing I love in this ep, is WESLEY! - back in the mix with the team, figuring it out and fighting together. <3 It is pretty weird to have Lorne along fighting, especially such a big nasty. I think they were just desperate for anyone they could get.

Bellatronics

I get what you’re saying, though I would call that less raising and more abusive mentoring, and I’m firmly in agreement with you in the sense of NOOOOOO!

Jason Veevaert

Finally! You get to see my favorite demon in the whole series of Buffy the Vampire Slayer & Angel. Probably the best looking demon created. He's very scary and awesome at the same time.

Feda

and apparently a lil bit of pizza 😆

mrvlgrl

Actually Conner grew to be his actually age in quartoth. Holtz did actually raise him. Time running faster in quartoth and all. But still the Cordy/Conner thing just a world of NOOOOOO!

Christine Ester

18. They made sure Cordelia mentioned it in the episode.

Fly on the Wall

Yeah, the stuff at the very end there is meant to be off-putting. I certainly don't ship them, and I would imagine most don't. I've said before that I do like this season a lot, but I have many opinions on both Cordelia and Connor. All I can really say is that there is a conversation to be had in the future.

Spencer Williams

Why does Vincent Kartheizer (Connor) get to be in the opening credits, but Andy Hallett (Lorne) doesn't?

Ron Fehr

Well Shan. You didn't care much for the Gunn/Fred relationship. Doesn't look too good right now.

Ron Fehr

Man I feel for Angel

Jason Veevaert

Or thinking about it another way. Dawns the oldest main character in the Buffyverse. Only slightly younger then Glory. :)

Chris Peacock

I had a thought. Technically, Connor isn't much younger than Dawn. And now, in the human world, they're about the same age.

Ron Fehr

Great reaction and I think we can all be disgusted along with you and Angel. Because watch it then to now totally gross. Cordy change him when he was a baby now she doing him, gross and more gross.

Emma goldsbrough

Yay the Shan rant was epic! Ugh it's still so gross all these years later. But yeah good episode if you block out the horribleness of Connor banging his substitute mother figure. Shudder.

HuntingSwan

I don't think that you are supposed to like Connor and Cordelia at all. I'm pretty sure that the show creators intended you to hate it for reasons that I cannot say.

The Movie Guru

amazing episode, no matter what you think about Connor. Here begins the masterpiece arc of season 4 properly

Einar Sigurðsson

I don't even know what to do anymore. I love you Shan but I can't even bring myself to watch this reaction, I hated this episode so damn much.

Rachel Espiritu

Thats a spoiler in itself saying "its very intentional"

Kelly Marie

Hahaha, why is this happening indeed. Disgusting indeed. Continuing the Whedonverse analogy of adulthood that Angel is going for, that last moment is when you find out someone you loved hooks up with someone else. Except here they mixed it up with Oedipus complex, where Connor desires Cordy and hates Angel.

David Caine

Vincent Valentin

I'm pretty sure this never, ever became a ship.. if anyone actually did they are wrong.

Chris (darkwater)

I think "Yullgh" is the best response to the end. But really, other than the Connor/Cordelia--Condelia?--stuff, this was actually a good episode. It's just that THAT IS SO GROSS that it's all I ever remember!

FernWithy

Pretty sure nobody likes this ship, and it's hard to move beyond, but upon rewatches of this season w friends this is the most rewarding season arc(s), hands down.

Justin Brinkley

Do you mind linking it at the discord? Or possibly my youtube channel?

UTU49

"And no matter how much I yell "no" throughout this episode every time I rewatch, it still happens." Maybe you need to work on projecting your voice.

UTU49

Its less the age things for me... but the fact that a year ago Cordy was his mother figure, feeding him, changing him, raising him with Angel... and she was in love with Angel... thats the gross thing for me personally. Ergh, the whole thing is just a mess and I obviously understand all the things of why (no spoilers) and whats coming next and stuff but i just hate it haha

Holi117

They knew W&H had extracted the memory from Lorne's head so there wouldn't be anything to bring back, while with Cordelia they figured she just had amnesia and all her memories were intact; just suppressed. That's my guess.

TerryT356

I don't think the writer's meant for anyone to like the Cordy/Connor thing . . . and no one does. Especially with them emphasizing that he was just born a year ago and visiting the place of his birth. And no matter how much I yell "no" throughout this episode every time I rewatch, it still happens.

Lostmyshoe22

The fight scene in this episode is one of my favorites. I think it does a good job of showing the relative fighting strength of the main cast(minus Fred and Cordy). Angel>Gunn>Wes(relying on tools rather than brute strength)>Lorne lol. Like you pointed out...Lorne isn't really a fighter. Cordelia and Fred have both shown way more aptitude than Lorne.

Second_Strike

I agree. I can even totally see things from Connor's point of view, because it isn't like he has a particularly strong familial bond with Angel, and the one he does have is a bad one (at least from his side of things.) The consenting adults part is questionable I think. I'm pretty sure Connor is supposed to be just under 18, but considering Cordelia is supposed to be 21-22, it isn't unreasonable.

Second_Strike

How dare you even insinuate such a thing! I briefly gagged on my pizza there. :)

Jarrod Wild

I remember when she said that she wasn't a fan of the Fred/Gunn relationship(at least, initially), thinking to myself "Oh, you think this is a bad relationship, hoho...just you wait."

JoDaNa81

Not a fan of Cordy/Connor ship, but not grossed out. They are both consenting adults and the fact Cordy babysat him doesn't really mean much. I'm sure it's not the first couple when one babysat another. My problem is the triangle: Angel/Cordy/Connor. It just feels like Cordy basically spat at Angel's feelings for her and put painful pressure on Angel/Connor relationship that is still fragile. It's just something that a friend or a simply decent person would not do.

Scarlett Monrow

I have been in this fandom for 11 years, and I haven’t heard of even one person liking that ship. Not one. It is widely regarded as the grossest ship in the Whedonverse.

mossomness (Amanda Moss)

And no I dont think anyone ships Cordy and Connor, but he isnt one! He is 18. He has only been alive for one year from our perspective, but he has been alive in Qor'Toth for 18 years, But yes, revulsion was also my response 15 years ago when this aired.

Jon Dub

I've been waiting all season for your reaction to the grossest ship ever. :) There's a lot of bad ships in this ep, and some cool fight scenes.

CaptainNice

At some point in the future I'm going to link you to an essay and a YouTube video that may or may not make you feel better about all the horrible stuff happening in the show where you are at the minute.

Lex

The show turned Cordy into a milf. How old is Connor anyway

stressbean

Hard one to comment on due to spoilers. Let's just say this episode is very well titled!

raymond julien

Connor + Cordy = the taste of vomit in my mouth

Jarrod Wild

I really like most of this episode and that other part doesn't bother me too much, but your reaction is pretty typical and, as far as I can tell, it's how the writers expected most viewers to react.

Bruce Trogdon

I didn't mine that they hooked up, they both can think for themselves, connor is old enough to make decisions so is cordy it's basicly the end of the world so people will do weird stuff sometimes, oh and people don't get mad at me saying this, but it really frustates me how her reaction was in this episode, she took all the epic seriousness out of it and make jokes about it, but that just my opinion.

Anouar

You don't like Connor/Cordy?! Most of the fandom LOVES Connor/Cordy! Um, yeah. Totally kidding.

UTU49

Btw the reason they dont use that memory spell on Lorne is because the memory isnt there in his head. With Cordy, her memories were there but were repressed, the spell brought them to the surface, but with Lorne there is nothing there to bring out, because the memories were physically extracted from his head.

Jon Dub

One of my favourite episodes, it's about to get serious.

Anouar

you would be wrong >:)

After Show Reactions

I bet I know what scene that thumbnail is from...

Ritchie

I absolutely love the fight on the building top, absolutely brilliant and we all know why there’s major cringe in this episode..

Kelly Marie

I can't decide which one to watch!! LOL.

UTU49