Arrow S08E08 - Crisis On Infinite Earths Part 4 FULL REACTION

With Oliver fighting the Anti-Monitor and the rest of them watching and focusing, it was like they were trying to fight the Anti-Monitor with The Care Bear Stare. Regarding shows killing their main characters at the end: Piper, Phoebe, and Paige were all still alive at the end. Even old Piper was still alive. Ross, Rachel, Monica, Chandler, Joey, and Phoebe were all still alive at the end. ; )

David Brown

I don't imagine that killing off the main character at the end of a series is super rare, but I really can't think of many shows that kill off their main characters. Maybe I don't watch the type of shows that do that.

Luis Garcia

Rumor has it Grant Gustin is going to appear in the flash movie.

Eric Zebrowski

The cameos of Kevin Conroy and Tom Welling was widely reported before hand so plenty of people who followed the reports knew what to expect. Though still a surprise if you wanted to avoid spoilers. Lucifer’s cameos we’re rumored by a whole bunch of folks in Vancouver and was a discussion that was being had about whether it was true he was in Crisis or not. However Ezra’s cameo caught everyone off guard. Nobody had heard a peep or rumor about this. It was never reported. They managed to sneak him into Vancouver and filmed a quick shoot AFTER they had already wrapped on Crisis. The only people that knew was Marc Guggenheim, the producers, director of the episode of course. And Grant. Most of the actors found out the same time we did watching the actual episode. They didn’t even ask for Ezra because according to Guggenheim it was just considered impossible. I mean WB/DC wouldn’t even let them use the Suicide Squad or Deathstroke anymore. No way they’d allow the movie Flash to share screen time with Grant. And yet they offered it to the Arrowverse producers and ofc they said yes. This was probably the biggest cameo because of the possibilities it has opened up. And just how out of left field it was.

Kevin Tran

Look at you.. Still going strong Froots! You got this! *two thumbs up*

Tony

It shouldn't have been possible, but (tv) Barry said as much himself so I guess it's just hand waved away.

Chris Peacock

*Spoilers not for Shan but others who haven't fully watched SPN, or TVDverse, or MCU.* I actually can't think of a ton of shows that do have the main character dying at the end. There are a few and it's probably fresh for you because those are ones you've reacted recently to like Supernatural, TVD, The Originals. Other than those I was struggling to rack my brain and think of any others that have done that. I think it does happen though because happily ever after isn't usually as dramatic as a noble sacrifice. And usually it does have a sorta combo of them with the other main characters having the happily ever After. In SPN Dean dies but Sam lives on til he is old and he has a son to carry on. In TVD Stefan dies but Damon and Elena live on and end up having a kid. In the Originals Claus and Elijah die but Hope lives on. It's just that sometimes with supernatural or super powered stories a main character dies so then it passes on the mantle. Kind of like how Tony and Steve die in Avengers Endgame and then others pick it up.

TheMew

My biggest issue with the crossover is with the Vanishing Point. Because they say it's a place "outside space and time" but Part 2 introduced the fact there is a multiverse of Legends and Waveriders who would have all gone to the Vanishing Point. If there's a multiverse of Legends, that would mean there's a multiverse of Time Masters as well, right? Would that mean that every universe's Time Masters gathered in the same place?

Disney15ish

I still don't know how they managed to keep that cameo secret given 2 of the others got leaked pretty early on

Reece Hart

That cameo shocked everyone 👏

Angel Flores

While you're probably right about a lot of TV shows liking to kill off their main character by the end of their run, I actually can't think of a ton of shows where they've done that. Then again, I probably just haven't seen many shows all the way from beginning to the end. Plus, a lot of shows end up getting cancelled and never give a proper or the intended resolution for their characters. Just thinking about the some of the shows you've seen. Smallville ended with Clark still alive. So did Buffy (I think). Supernatural did kill off Dean and technically Sam died too, but only after he had lived his life. Firefly had Mal and most the crew still alive. Even The-Show-That-Shall-Not-Be-Mentioned, but I'm mentioning it anyway, which was famous for its deaths, still had Jon, Tyrion and the rest of the Starks still breathing by the end. Unless you want to count Dany as the definitive character. But that's up for debate.

Jordan St. James

Seriously, the parallels to Endgame never stop. While the rest of the heroes fight the army of faceless and nameless henchmen, the main hero, the one who started the entire franchise squares off with the boss baddie, obliterates him with a cool one-liner, after which, the henchmen army disappears. And the characters who were the closest to the main hero are with him as he dies.

Jordan St. James

I remember when I saw a fanmade trailer for Crisis on Youtube. In this trailer every DC movie and show character was in it and I thought "wow imagine they are really in this crossover" and they really put almost every DC character/universe in the crossover. Also in the trailer was JL Batman and I thought "It would be so cool if hes in the crossover with that expensive cool Batman suit but they will never do that" and now they put JL Flash with his suit in this part. They really surprised us all

Kart

Don't worry about it

Tony

No it wouldn't be weird for you to expect them to say "Canary Power!", "Martian Power!", whatever, etc., because it had honestly become just that cheesy.

Jordan St. James

I'm sorry I have to laugh a bit at that final battle. They had to fight all those Dementor-looking things that gave them so much trouble in the first episode (they actually killed Oliver) and, at that point, the Anti-Monitor is supposed to be all-powerful so those things should be even stronger, but we have Choi/Kevin, no powers, no training, no weapons, nada, just swatting and punching away at them like nothing. And those so-called one-liners? "That's for Oliver!" "If anyone's gonna take over the universe, it's gonna be me!" Cringe city. At least Oliver had one last great zinger. "You have failed this universe!" Although, wasn't it technically the multiverse? I know there wasn't actually a multiverse existing at that point, but it was still the multiverse that the Anti-Monitor destroyed. But whatever.

Jordan St. James

Not only were they asked to put Ezra in, it was a also a last minute addition. Marc Guggenheim (who was in charge of the crossover) said that they had already completed wrapped Arrow and got a call from the WB boss saying "I know you're locked, but can you put Ezra into the crossover?". He also gave an explanation for why Reverse-Flash wasn't in the crossover: "l guess what it really comes down to is not being beholden to a headline from six years ago that was not written by any of the showrunners involved in the crossover,"

Disney15ish

"In inevitability, there is destiny." The Anti-Monitor might as well have looked straight into the camera and said, "I am inevitable." And then right after that part, Oliver shows up to give his pep talk monologue but he should've just said, "And I... am... someone else... something else... I am... The Hood." (no I'm kidding, he's the Green Arrow)

Jordan St. James

"You are a remarkable individual." Really, Novu? I mean, don't get me wrong, Choi (or Kevin, as you prefer, Shan) seems like a real cool guy. But you just met this man and all he did was spout a bunch of moral platitudes that anyone who has read, seen or heard any kind of fiction has been told time and time again.

Jordan St. James

I'm gonna talk about Crisis in relation Endgame for a bit. Seems fair. They're both huge crossovers from rival companies that came in the same year. It can hardly be denied that Endgame had a lot of advantages over Crisis (it was better plotted and structured for one, I feel), but if there's an area that Crisis arguably had an edge over Endgame, it was ambition. Crisis was a story that encompassed an entire multiverse and it took full advantage of that (at least as far as they could, which was still a lot), connecting stories and characters across multiple continuities AND mediums. Endgame was most definitely ambitious, make no mistake, but it only pushed as far as it could within its own established universe, which was still fine. That way, everything was kept (mostly) consistent. But now, with the MCU expanding into multiverse territory, we may see more ambition on a Crisis scale down the line. And it may come sooner than we think. Or at least that's the hope. But Crisis will always be remembered by comic fans as a trailblazer in this respect.

Jordan St. James

You all know what this means, right? In the Snyderverse (or at least the movie universe), it's become canon that Ezra Miller-Barry came up with the name "The Flash" after being unintentionally inspired by his Arrowverse counterpart. Because when Arrowverse-Barry mentioned that name, Miller-Barry looked like he had no idea what that meant. And it makes sense because, when you think about it, in the Justice League movie, Miller-Barry was never referred to as The Flash.

Jordan St. James

As cool as that Ezra Miller cameo was (and make no mistake, it was really f*ckin' cool), I have to question how that encounter between him and Arrowverse Barry was possible if the rest of the multiverse had already been decimated. I have to assume that Miller-Barry must have escaped into the Speed Force when his universe was annihilated (which seems like a reasonable explanation, to be fair).

Jordan St. James

Interesting that the Monitor keeps referring to all of existence as "creation" implying that there is a God in the Arrowverse. While in the MCU, Wong makes specific mention to the Big Bang when talking about the birth of the universe. But then, spirituality is not something that the MCU has especially touched upon, besides all the magic stuff. I guess they wanted to keep things PG-13 or maybe that's just a reflection of the beliefs of whoever happens to be steering the MCU at any one time.

Jordan St. James

It's interesting that, here, Oliver has become the newest host for the Spectre after Jim Corrigan. In the comics, Hal Jordan, Oliver's best friend, sacrificed his life to redeem himself by saving the world and ended up becoming the Spectre. Jordan would go on to use his powers as the Spectre to assist Oliver, whom he had previously brought back to life.

Jordan St. James

Purgatory exists as a place that your soul goes to after death. It's a more spiritual concept, which might explain why it continues to exist even with the destruction of the multiverse. The multiverse may simply encompass all of physical reality, while purgatory and the afterlife (Heaven and Hell) exist independently of the former.

Jordan St. James

This is probably a stupid question, all things considered, but if the paragon crew was trapped in the Vanishing Point for months, how did they sustain themselves in all that time? Doesn't look like that place has an ample supply of food and water.

Jordan St. James

But now when Snyder Cut have been release I think a sign of Central City in the movie says "Home to Flash" but this was before Snyder Cut as you said. But I actually forget this cameo for a second just realise it when I started to watch this reaction. And got very excited to see the reaction of cameo. And she did not disappoint.

Andreas Froby

The reveal of Ezra Miller's Flash broke the internet, especially considering that the Snyder Cut hadnt been announced yet. By the time the crossover happened, everyone already knew about Kevin Conroy and Tom Welling's cameo. On the flip side, nobody knew that Ezra and Lucifer would appear. Also, in the DCEU movies, they've yet to call Barry the Flash which was why Ezra's Flash was so confused

I still dont get how the Monitor and Anti Monitor got their powers and what happened after he created him. Why was the Anti Monitor trapped in Central City? Who trapped him? In his cell there are the symbols of the paragons so how come that the Monitor never knew about the paragons? And the Anti Monitor said there are infinite Monitors so they cant stop his creation but shouldnt there be infinite Monitors and Anti Monitors then?

Kart

In the beginning they showed what happened before because after the first 3 episodes there was a break for some months before the last 2 episodes came out. Its actually like infinity war and endgame. There is a break between the two parts and in the first part the villain achieved his goal and in the next part they are trying to reverse it and we see some stuff from the past. Also many people hate Nash because he set the Anti Monitor free but I think its the Monitors fault that he is free AND that Oliver died. The Anti Monitor was trapped and the Monitor knew he is there so why didnt he stop Nash? He knew Crisis is coming so why didnt he do anything? Also if Elseworlds never happened (which he caused) Oliver wouldnt had to save Barry and Kara by giving his life. When I watched this episode I really thought for a second Im watching some fan made stuff on Youtube because I couldnt believe they even got JL Flash. Btw if I remember right they didnt even ask for Ezra Miller. I think they were asked if they wanna use him. They probably had some ideas for the Flash movie at this time and wanna use this scene for the movie. Thats probably why the camera changed and thats why Reverse Flash wasnt in this Crossover because they changed the story last second. Also JL Flash was never called the Flash so thats how he gets his name probably. I dont get why they introduced Ryan Choi in this crossover and why they made him a paragon. He wasnt really special or something. Why couldnt Lex swap places with him?! I know Superman is his enemy but I wanted Superman returns to be in this part! I dont accept that Lex is the paragon of truth! Like its that easy to become a paragon.. why searching for the paragons if they can do that? They could even make the Reverse Flash the paragon of love..

Kart