What are your thoughts on bad endings?

Interesting and makes the game feel real if done right

It can be used to a very great effect if done right I think

Jenna Twerk - NSFW

I’m totally with you on this response. It’s a fantasy. I don’t think most of us would go into this game with the intention to deliberately sabotage or hurt the person we’re interested in. I’ve played some other games where the bad endings are so severe because the decisions at times were so subtle that it was a brutal shock. Also, SPENCER? Is my all time favourite. My boyfriend is a little like him... he’s not a dancer though haha

brzrael

I do not like bad endings if you cause them for no real reason. Picking one wrong interaction should not force a bad ending path, especially if it is a seemingly minor choice. If bad things happen, I would prefer the possibility of the protagonist having the choice to actively work to correct or at least mitigate how bad it is if they really wanted too.

I Dare Korval

glad you thought that. I couldn't stand for something like that happening to papa bear or any of the other boys. 😔

swirlybeard

TBH, that was the first thought I had with Harold, but not only would it hurt me deeply to do so, I was like... That's not what my VN is about, so... I don't want to go that far with it.

DyneWulf

Secret endings is something I have in mind for sure ;3 Or secret paths...!

DyneWulf

I tried to avoid making Harold's bad ending feel forced. I think it flows alright, but... yeah, you have to TTRRRRRYYYY to get there x3

DyneWulf

This is a nuanced breakdown that I strongly agree with. I understand the necessity of tragedy in writing, and in games it can be an excellent way for the player to be more invested in the characters and story by giving their choices weight and meaning. It definitely means additional work for the creators, but it can enrich the overall experience a great deal. My personal opinion is to use caution with including a path to a 'bad ending'. As Ryan mentioned, traditional RPGs require the player to purposefully pursue this by failing objectives and making choices that harm relationships with NPCs. Visual novels are a unique medium that doesn't quite sit squarely in the game genre, so I feel the decisions needed to follow this route should be clear, and avoid making it something easy to stumble upon. There are decisions that I feel illustrate this well in-game already, particularly in Harold's path. I feel most people are here to see things go well for the cast of Extracurricular Activities. I know I personally find it hard to contemplate making choices that would hurt these characters; that's how well you have brought them to life.

Drizzlebone

To go 35 days with a character and it twists to a bad ending is a thunderbolt to the heart for me. I don’t even like going after them for the sake of completion. Imagine me getting a bad ending with Harold...I’d crack. But it’s SATISFYING to know the bad endings are there because I successfully avoided them which only verifies I did everything right.

topspin2flame

It would be interesting especially if it was like a neutral for if you just played however, a great for if you did everything perfect and a bad if you mad sure to try to go against the point as much as possible

The Photography Nerd

At least with mine, it's a culmination of the entire route, and not just one or two bad choices!

DyneWulf

I definitely wouldn't want mine to feel like they are there just because I feel it has to be.

DyneWulf

They do have their ups and downs, but things get resolved, and everyone is happy! I hate the idea of ruining it x3

DyneWulf

There are some out there that blindsides you with a bad ending due to one choice... I dislike that completely.

DyneWulf

That's understandable!

DyneWulf

It's hard to make him go through the bad stuff. And thank you!

DyneWulf

Truth x3

DyneWulf

That's kinda how I feel about it too!

DyneWulf

And by the way, if real-life Dozer types DO exist, I'd love to meet you.

Cole McReid's Disciple

I totally agree with the whole "real life has bad endings, so putting a good spin on any bad situation simply isn't realistic - or fair" opinion. It's true that people like these characters don't actually exist, and so to make them out to be perfect angels with hot bodies and flawless personalities doesn't hold true to the grit, the hardships, and the snags real life throws into any relationship. HOWEVER, with that being said, I believe that is what draws us to these games: they ARE NOT real life. These games allow us to experience realms where we could enjoy having a gigantic cuddly-bear Dozer in our lives (my personal favorite FOREVER). These games allow us to flirt with the possibility of experiencing what it's like to be loved so much by a Spencer that he is very protective of us. These games show us what it means to truly be VALIDATED (assuming you act like a decent human being as the protagonist), and for those of us who don't really have much hope when it comes to relationships in real life, it's a rejuvenating break from the monotonous drag of our current situation. For that reason, I'm not a fan of bad endings in these types of games.

Cole McReid's Disciple

Bad endings provide an element of risk. If you make the “wrong” choices (storytelling is storytelling) then you get a worse outcome. Without that risk, then the joy of getting the good or the best ending falls just that much flatter. That’s just my take, though

Krios Moongaze

I don't think it's a bad idea for there to be undesirable or even bad endings because not everything in life works out. As one of the better written visual novels I've read (and the only one I've played that really tackles some very heavy subject matter), I think it would be perfectly reasonable for there to be bad endings. Avoiding any spoilers -- there seems to be at least one character in everyone's backstory who for whatever reason is their antagonist. If you don't make the right decisions as the player (the protagonist), you could end up pushing away the character you're trying to swoon. And if you do too many things that are deal-breakers, well then the antagonist wins somehow. That could mean the characters get back together or forget about the protagonist altogether, or maybe something terrible happens as a result of the protagonist not being there to help them. It could go in all sorts of directions, and given the writing so far, I'm confident the game will be great with or without them.

Spaniard Spanglington

I wanna suffer, so I’m fine with Bad Endings.

Jordan Joestar

Oh drat I've been going about this "romance" thing all wrong then.

Regonoreth

TL;DR at the bottom: ~ ~ ~ From a what I consider very broad game design lens, 'Bad Endings' are what a player is expected to view as an unfavorable result from either failing to meet specific in-game requirements or choices for an obstacle or goal. I'll highlight 'Pikmin' and 'Persona 3 Portable' as examples: - Pikmin requires the player to strategically gather a minimum number of resources to repair the protagonist's ship in order to safely return home. There are 30 parts in total to collect, and your ending is decided by retrieving all necessary parts before the 30 day in game time limit. If you fail this minimum requirement, the player is given the bad ending. - In Persona 3 portable, the protagonist is able to interact with party members and NPC's in order to strengthen allies and obtain more in-game resources. One such party member, when playing as the Female Protagonist, can be viewed as being vital to maximize their friendship value, or a very unfortunate turn of narrative events will occur. It is not necessary to beat the game to befriend this party member, but you are still given a subjectively 'poorer' ending result if you do not. With these two examples in a Real Time Resource game and a JRPG, I feel Bad Endings are well illustrated as a variable result the player does not want. It thus enhances the game experience by providing motivation to interact with the world, or risk receiving a bad ending. For a visual novel like 'Extracurricular Activities', I think I will agree with what several others have said, and what you mentioned; role-playing games that provide multiple ending results due to narrative choices made have peculiar 'bad endings'. The ending is not necessarily a result of failing to meet requirements (a deterant I tried to describe above), but instead is but a new route to explore in of itself. I highlight 'Undertale's' "Genocide Route" and 'Monster Prom's' routes: both games do have 'default' endings, but to achieve a particularly 'unpleasant' ending, the player must specifically go out of their way to meet requirements to trigger these events. With Extracurricular Activities serving as a VN that doesn't default to a 'bad ending' due to the player's inaction or inability to meet a requirement, the concept of including 'Bad Endings' is merely additional content as opposed to a motivator for the player's choices. Additional content isn't bad though! 'Bad Endings' open the door to allowing the player to immerse themselves into ethical and sociological situations the creator would like to discuss in the format of their game. Essentially, including morals and/or making a statement about how particular actions or decisions the player made contributed to this result. My last two cents: from a narrative standpoint, I find bad endings add more variety to a game. I know I definitely come to Extracurricular Activities for cute boys and Warm Fuzzies, but having a darker side to characters or even the possibility of something causing a turn of misfortune for the character adds depth. It expands character development and world building. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ From a game design standpoint, a true 'bad ending' is most effectively used in instances where the player must actively participate in the game or meet a certain requirement in order to avoid a perceiveably unfortunate outcome. 'Bad Endings' in most visual novel games often designed to be a result of a player purposefully making choices to reach this particular outcome. This isn't a bad thing on the developer's part, as Bad Endings allow for commentary on darker and heavier issues. But in a story standpoint, Bad-Endings means more content! More work on the game developer's part, but it expands character development, adds depth, and world building! [Fuck this is long, I'm very passionate about game design. Apologies to anyone who has to scroll and isn't really interested 'XD]

Angelic Bard - Pflegehund

As unpleasant as a bad ending might be I feel from a story telling perspective with endings that differ based on player interactions it makes sense to have a bad ending. Be it you have to actively seek it out or you just unknowingly make the wrong choices, things aren't always sunshine and rainbows and sometimes things go horribly wrong. It's like playing renegade in Mass Effect, you know by the end of it you're going to feel horrible and let Earth suffer at the hands of your rash choices but it's still a story to be told. At the end of the day it's your project and up to you what you do with it, but I will say me personally I am open to bad endings because that's just how story telling works for every good scenario there is a bad scenario that could have happened.

ArcTheWolf

Good, gooder, and most goodest endings only please.

I feel that decision-based projects like Extracurricular Activities serve as reminders to all players that they should be more mindful of their decisions and apply that to real life.

Griffon the Grizzly

Relationships aren't so easy that you always get the "good" ending, I think it's fair to have possibilities where it doesn't work out. If someone got that, maybe a clue as to where they went wrong so they can try again. That's the gift we receive as a MC in a video game vs real life, we get do-overs.

Konran

I think it depends on context and gameplay - In general, I'd prefer not to have *bad* endings, but how much I care will depend on where it happens from a gameplay perspective. If I spend 10+ hours on a route, and end up with a bad ending, and there's no clear way to try again without replaying the entire route, I'll be very upset. If it's obvious where the bad choice happened, and there's an auto-save I can grab and correct, and the bad ending decision was close to the outcome (so I'm not losing as many hours), that's a lot less severe. Also, building on JTalbain's point - if you know where you made errors, that's a lot less infuriating than if you're just left stumbling in the dark.

Sean

I love em

Maverick

Stories have bad endings, good endings, and neutral endings in-between. In life, sometimes the reality is that you'll reach a bad end in a situation, and they can be fantastic learning experiences even if they hurt the person who reached that bad end. I think their inclusion would be a good edition to the game. Now, I wouldn't say they have to be "super dark" but simply a stern reminder that we have to play the game being mindful of our choices in the end. If we are able to make whatever choices we want with no consequence, then are they really choices? Even if you arranged them as bad endings, I personally think the game would be better with them included.

Noire

Also, an addendum to my post: getting a bad end, being told what you did wrong, and going back to correct it can actually make the good ending a bit more satisfying. Then you don't just see the good result, you also have a good sense of the bad events that you managed to avoid. Can make it that much sweeter.

JTalbain

I think my opinions change based on when the ending comes. If it's at the end of a game you've spent 10 hours getting to the end of, it's different than if it comes in the middle as a direct result of a bad choice. Also, just an acknowledgment upon receiving a bad end that you could have gotten a better one with different choices (and possibly a hint as to what the choices are) goes a long way to making it more satisfying. Then it's not that you got a "bad end", it feels more like you're still playing and trying to get the "real" ending. A lot of how the bad end is taken is down to the execution.

JTalbain

Personally, Bad endings are never something I go for on a first or second run and I rarely return to a game to get them. At the same time, a real good bad ending can give some interesting perspectives on events and can be worthwhile to see. However, I think not every story needs bad endings, and if writing them doesn't feel good to you then there is no need to force them into this one.

FaeCourt

Not a big fan of them... I personally dont like to play games and run for the bad endings, i just hate them tbh.... I never done it and not really going from them. Your story sure have some deep emotional moments, but the end up so well in both netraul and good ending, that personally wouldn't even try to add bad ending to the story. Especially, I would advise you not to do it if you have to force yourself to write a bad ending, from the moment you don't like it. Your final choice is yours ofcourse, but since you ask for opinion, I personally just love the story the way it is so far.

Xeralex

I have to really agree on this

Gavin Lemay

Perhaps you could add a choice to the beginning of the game to enable or disable bad endings?

Nick

Heck yes

Nick

Also I still think a secret orgy ending would be a great reward for getting all the good endings in every route. XD

Silverjack

I say if you do write some bad endings go all out and make them extreme. Like Diana breaking out of prison and killing the MC. Or Darius having a fatal accident. These are endings that we would really work hard to avoid.

Silverjack

I dont think a bad ending would work especially now that the stories have progressed to their late phases already. Give our booboos the happy endings they deserve. I honestly doubt people want to see Harold commit suicide, Andy banning you or Darius ghosting you. Not sure what Spencer's and Dozer's bad endings would even be...Would Dozer accidentally punch you in anger and you become a vegetable? Iiiish..

AndovarEdoras

It would depend on the level of how bad the ending is. SPOILERS --> Like if Chester would start dating Vernon Or Darius would start dating Spencer in his route might be okay. But coach trying to commit suicide or actually succeeding or Vernon actually raping MC or Chester or something along those lines would be too bad. At least for me

Ieht

I appreciate bad endings more when they actually require genuine thought and consideration of your love interest to avoid. As opposed to it being caused by picking the wrong option between like "Should I spit in his drink or not?"

MoonRiver~

Personally, I prefer the good/better/best/alternate ending type over the good/bad ending type. It makes me feel like there's more to explore and accomplish that way than if I get a bad ending. If there's a bad ending, I'll spend more time avoiding it than trying to find new paths. Just my two cents.

GlitchyComic

Probably not want you want to hear but you do you. You are the creator of the world and it's characters, you know them better then anyone else. Personally I think bad endings should be included since you really have to actively be trying to reach them. Any normal play through should at worst be pushing you along the neutral path. At the end of the day the decision is yours and I will continue to support you no matter what you decide.

Shadowcrawler

Though some options are obvious, every time I face a choice, I`ll go see the bad one to see how things could be. To see the "what-if" is sometimes interesting. No problem if a story has a bad ending as one of the endings (even if its the only one). But I`ll be sad reading it though. I just hope everyone can be friends and happy eventually. Sometimes by picking up the "wrong choice" to see how they`d react, I feel I just able to see the "real them", and fully learn about their characteristics. So bad ending is meaningful. (though I`m not gonna let it appear in my play through

Alfyn Liu

Personally, I'm a big fan of multiple endings, but more in the fashion of Chrono Trigger than your average VN., with more of a "this is how it COULD have gone!" feel than an objectively Golden/Good/Regular/Bad scale of endings. I like endings that feel like rewards for seeing the game through, or at least interesting experiences that don't feel like the player's wasted their time. "Bad" endings, at least the realy dark kind, feel like either a punishment or a sick joke. Of course, I'm naturally pretty thin-skinned and I tend to get WAY too into these kinds of things, so take my opinion with several grains of salt.

Curt Clark

I was gonna comment, but then I poked through the already-thoughtful responses. I'm in favor of you including bad endings (time-resources permitting) for a lot of the reasons pointed out above!

Darth Khannicus

I uh....didn't actually see them. I hate seeing people sad I just focused on on happy ending. Besides, the boys are so sweet and handsome, why would I ever want to make them sad?

Licorice

I would prefer multiple endings. I sort of dislike this trend to make everything "ideal". I prefer different endings that gives the player choices and options vs everything always turning out well and being wrapped up in a nice little bow. That probably does take more time and effort but if it's possible it would be the best way to go. Players who don't like "bad endings" can avoid them and get their happy ending and other playera can explore different options if available to them. As someone who has multiple save files in order to explore every aspect of the story, bad ends are important for me.

Swish

Personally I'd love to see you devote that energy to a totally new concept for everyone to enjoy rather than install branching content that may get a mixed reception, especially this far into ECA's progression. My vote would be for you to develop a foundation for The Stone, as I was sucked into the story with the few pages you wrote out of Harold's book!

Korel Dagh

I'm fine with a really dark or cruel "bad" ending especially (although not limited to) Harold, where you can understand why such an event may occur. Not every character's bad ending necessarily needs to be as dark as other characters. It would be interesting to see how the player's choices build up to it and being able to see the results of choices you may have thought had little to no impact add up to a certain ending. I don't think you should be forced to limit a bad ending to something like a breakup. Even with a really dark "bad" ending people can still go back and get the true/good ending and know that the bad ending is not the true or canonical ending. Maybe a disclaimer would be needed discussing the content/themes of such an ending and a general tip on how to avoid it for people not wanting to see such an ending. I disagree with people saying that it doesn't fit the tone of the game, seeing as how the game has already handled some issues with Harold. Such a cruel ending with Harold would show that these issues are to be taken seriously and that not every time everything works out in the end. I find it disappointing that many want this game to be limited to only happy or mildly upsetting endings, which I feel is simply limiting this game in people's minds as just a pornographic visual novel, not the work of art that it is.

Anonymous

I think if you don't have some endings that are not ideal, it lessens the impact of the MC. If with every ending all characters are happy regardless of the choices that the MC made during the play-through, it makes it seem like the MC really was not that important of a person in any of the other charters lives. The choices that you make throughout the game should be reflected in the ending, otherwise, what was the point? I think that every ending should have trade offs. Some things should go well, other things are less than ideal. There could also be completely unexpected things that happen. That is life and it is realistic. I think it's more interesting than a completely ideal ending where all charters live happily ever after. I often wonder while playing through the different routes what is happening for the other characters, especially Harold. He has a lot of issues with his depression and his ex. What happens to him when I play through with another character? Without the MC to be in his life as a boyfriend, how does he handle things? That is just one example. I think about the other characters as well. For the endings to make sense, there has to be a different outcome for each charter depending on whether or not the MC pursues a relationship with them or not. It doesn't mean that all the charters that don't end up with the MC have "bad endings", just different, maybe less than ideal endings. I would be disappointed if I didn't find out what happened to all the charters at the end of the game. I would expect that the choices the MC makes should impact them all. Does that make sense? I could go on, but I think I said enough to make my point. Please let me know if you would like further input! I am happy to offer my perspective. :-)

D.J.A.

Bad endings could be the MC being infatuated by the side characters and choosing them over the main love interests. That's not too dark, that's life.

Eternalityx

It depends on what you mean by bad ending for me. If it makes sense, I am not opposed to an extreme or dramatic ending that has arisen as a naturala consequence of your actions. Some of the subject matter of your writing is quite deep and hard hitting, Harold and parts of Chester/Darius comes to mind. Others, like Spencer and Chester, don't feel like they would lead to a devastating ending, just one where they made some stupid choices and their aspirations didn't work out. In regards to an ending that is more neutral in the sense that you don't get the guy, that is perfectly acceptable. Many people, myself included, have dated others who you get along with and can have a great time, but something just doesn't feel right about. Sometimes it's quick, a month after you have started talking and you or they don't want to waste your/their time because it doesn't feel like the relationship has longevity, despite nothing overtly wrong happening. It can be something that seems relatively minor, but can be big for one person. For example, not being very enthusiastic about a hobby or interest that was mentioned in conversation. If I am dating someone who hates video games and can't stand cats, these are things that while I don't need; I'm certainly not going to go without and change myself for someone who despises both of them when I spend a lot of time with both. Why these two examples? Because I actually broke up with someone who hated these two things. At the time, I didn't say anything and moved the conversation along. But it bothered me, and comments they were making about cats or video games started to really get to me after I made it clear how I felt. So, I broke up with him, and it was out of no where from his perspective. In summary, I can think of several examples in the routes current progression where the MC has many opportunities to support or to be dismissive of qualities, interests, and hobbies of the guys, and it feels like them breaking it off at the end, or even sooner, would feel like a natural consequence.

Benjamin Mustard

YES YES. I definetly want to see MC having more interests and seeing how the other guys would deal w/it! Although the idea of being a clean slate gives the player (us) more room to feel like it's our story, and not as playing someones' story, so it would be best to find the right balance between the two.

Allen Walker

My 3 cents. I don't like bad endings. I've never gone for a bad ending. Even though it's "just a game", I get too emotionally evolved with the characters to ever do a bad ending. Especially in a game like this where you're supposed to get emotionally evolved with the characters! Having said that, I think since it is a game you almost want different endings just so people have something to strive for. If there's no difference the game is really just a story. So I don't know. I think there somehow needs to be different endings, but not really a "bad ending". *shrug*

Nickthulhu

I guess I'll put my two cents in here. I'm not a fan of bad endings that result in something depressing at the end of the storyline (i.e. main character dies). I'm okay with SOME of the bad endings if it just ends up being that the person you're interested in, and you, aren't together in the end. Example being, and although I haven't played Harold's storyline, I'm just speculating: If, say, the bad ending for Harold results in him doing something drastic and he ends up going through with it, I wont' like it. However, if the bad ending has him considering doing the drastic thing, but volunteers himself into rehab, resulting in Harold and the MC not being fully together (although the MC is allowed to visit from time to time), then that's fine. Basically, I'm just saying that I don't like endings where the main character or the Character of interest have died in some way. It just feels like all that work you had made was for nothing.

Chamelion

I can see you're talking about bad endings as in a awfull outcome kinda of way, i really hate to see character that i like and love be subjected by horrible endings, i don't mind neutral ones where they don't stay with you as a lover, but they are not unhappy or even worse dead.

Nicolas E. Gramkow

Along with most of the other folks who commented here, bad endings are just a natural consequence of the choices you’ve made as the player. The context and content of that “bad” ending is really situational and can vary widely. After multiple play throughs of each route and exploring all the options, I think a “bad” ending for each would be completely different, but have a common theme - your love interest loses interest in you. In a dating sim game I would think this is the most appropriate. There doesn’t need to be an “all is lost” moment, as really, most budding relationships don’t end with a cataclysmic event. Only extreme examples exist as an exception to the general rule. ***Possible Spoilers*** Harolds “bad” ending seemed a little extreme at first, and it could have been written so much darker. However after really thinking about it and reflecting on the path it took to get there, it made sense. The part that still strikes me as slightly off is how long it took to get there. The general timeline of the game is 30 days or so, and that’s a short timeline to accomplish so much content, events, etc. I honestly don’t think it should have taken 34 days for Harold to decide that your not a fit for him. It could have happened sooner. Another point to consider, in each route MC basically tailors himself to each character - sharing their interests and activities, but not one of them have shared anything he enjoys (Sorry, stargazing is the one that comes to mind). Matter of fact, Eric is pretty much a blank slate with no real detail aside from his love of tennis and his aspirations to be in management. What passions does he have? Can our 5-6 suitors share in that somehow? What would a suitor need to do to elicit a “break up” from Eric? That could be something to consider - give MC a little more depth and see how the others can play into his interests a bit. Let’s say he loves painting, would Spencer share that with him and enjoy it? Would Darius? How would Eric react if they hate it or refuse to participate? Just my 2 cents. Your work is amazing, keep it up!

Medwyn

Dark endings i don't believe fit well with this game. However I think failure endings with consequences for both characters would be an interesting addition.

Serph

With the tone that I see I think a bad ending would be a detriment to this game

inukai44

....and type very quickly. 😅

Regonoreth

I think this is a useful point. Choices where picking one way or another gets you "better" or "worse" endings are often easy to predict which is which and only the clueless and the masochistic pick the latter. The better choices might be between *different* endings. You have some of these already, on Spencer's route where you can encourage him to a different combination of his three aspirations—he could theoretically end happy as a stripper or a tennisist or an accountant with a comfortable domestic life. The comparison to COoT is interesting; I haven't played all the routes on that one but I recall there being nothing really bad, more just "meh, you didn't find love this time, but after graduation it's a whole new set of chances!" And there's nothing really wrong with that style either IMO, and it's probably more suited to what EA's genre has ended up being. Things like Echo or Password you know from the beginning are gonna be bad, and if you don't like that you play EA instead.

Regonoreth

Personally I think a break up scene (or if you aren’t dating an “I need space scene”) would fit well for this game as a bad/neutral ending. Anything more intense than that then I guess it would depend on the game. You aren’t awakening an ancient demon or hunting a werewolf so an overly dark ending doesn’t seem necessary. ***SPOILERS*** I could see an ending for Harold where he chooses his job over you being “bad” but something that could be more interesting to write than overly dark ones like him falling into a deep depression or getting back with his ex wife. Personally I liked how at the beginning of the game if you don’t pick any routes it just game overs immediately. It makes sense; there is no romantic interest and thus no game. A bad/neutral ending is just following that lead; you break up because it just isn’t working but stay friends OR you break up and move back in with Maria if you moved out but damaged the relationship enough. I’d be interested in endings of what the characters went on to do without you. Where did they find their happy ending if it couldn’t be with you kind of thing.

Bruce

So what you do is: you plan out what a bad ending would be, but instead of writing it, if the player ever falls onto that path then immediately you have the MC get randomly hit by a car and killed.

Regonoreth

Negative endings are really bad most of the time you spend hours playing a game and then this happens

Sven Hofmann

There are times and places for bad endings, I'm not quite sure whether ExcA is one suited for it or not. Personally, I'm leaning towards no. The story and routes you've done so far have been quite linear, with choices that are either quite binary or vague/less impacting to the story line. in my opinion, and wouldn't warrant a bad ending to be present. Of course, I could be shockingly wrong and you come up with good reason and writing to justify having it in.

bigfootgolem

I'm in two minds about good and bad endings, firstly if you have choices in the game then the outcome of those choices should be reflected in the story. That being said the natural flow if this game is to actually be nice and not a prick, most of the choices would be natural ones in any relationship. I tried Harold's route again and didn't do the I love you bit until the end and got the bad ending. I was actually shocked with the outcome and was pretty shitty with myself for having to do that to harold and really felt for him, To the point were i went back and replayed the whole route again to get it out of my mind, but it still lingers. I want to see the other bad endings pan out for the others but I dont if that makes any sense. I have grown to love all the characters and find it hard to want to hurt them in any way.

Peterwolf

Depends on the game, but I think they’re mostly bad. The better bad ends are ones that flesh out the world or narrative by existing. The ones players would concievably go out of their way for. But the ones that come to mind are horror adjacent. VNs aren’t traditional games. They don’t need fail states.

Dex

I don't care for bad endings. I play this more like reading a novel with an end in mind

Cozzy

Ill phrase it this way, More choices might lead me to bad endings. I always end up comparing your work to Coming out on top. Which I found this from a guy doing route guides and then just looking at the lists and I saw this game he was doing his routes and I ended up here. I wont say there are certain choices I like since I have a set way of what I would like if I was in the shoes of the MC which is something that a lot of vns do and lack thereof does make a bit sad. But of late the latter half of the game has kinda become predictable. Like I said before when in chester's route when darius grabbed him unannounced(Which im sensing that is gonna happen from the walking stabbing dummy). And he can sense you are not telling him everything and you have 2 options. Tell him or no and its kinda obvious what you want the person to choose. Now as for dark harolds route I would like to know what was so dark you couldnt bring yourself to do?

Lord Memnar

If the story calls for it, a dark ending is needed. Happy endings shoved into dark stories always feel disingenuous. However a dark ending for the sake of it being dark, I don't like.

Bad ending should just be a game over type deal where they break up with you if you got that far. If you stayed neutral, it's just a "the end" for that save file because there's nowhere else to go.

Dkrewe

it's very straightforward in this game to get good end bad end could just be like an end card that says "u didn't do it" and that'd be reasonable

BeatButton

No bad endings plz. I really dont like games with them

Bigerbear

I like having the bad ends in there. Because while the game focuses on the good side of all the characters. The bad endings kinda show the bad side that everyone has. And you cant have the good without the bad, it's just not possible. If you wanna take them out, that's completely up to you. We'll still play it the same 😂. But I would leave them in just to show people "this is what could happen. And you dont want this, so dont be a prick!"

France

100% agree. I've become invested in each and every one of them. My opinion, which I understand carries no more weight than anyone else here, is that Harold, Chester, Spencer, Darius, and Dozer would move on with their own lives and dreams. Heartbreak hurts, and lost loves leave their mark, but it doesn't mean the end of the world or end of the road for many. I admit I can't think like someone in the same position as Harold, but he's stronger than letting himself fall away simply because someone doesn't say I love you.

Carey Brown

I don't think BAD ENDINGS are such a bad thing when it comes to the consequences of a decision you would normally make, but Extracurricular Activities isn't a game that gives much of a choice regarding stuff the player can not control. For example Nekojishi, it has bad endings because of the player reasoning to choose something, not that appeals to his love interest, but that doesn't seem to affect the story turning out to be an indispensable questioning of "choices". This visual novel doesn't have the same kind of impact, but that doesn't mean it is a bad VN. I love EA because of its simplicity and great storytelling. ***SPOILERS*** When Harold tells me he feels bad about himself I'm not going to tell him he should be because I have sympathy towards him finding him as a relatable character (setting aside common sense knowing he has depression), if Darius opens up for the first time about his family wondering what would his gramma think of him I'm not gonna tell him she would feel disappointed. Etc... ***END OF SPOILER*** There are a lot of non-relevant choices "Choices" that lead the player to think they are, but I think this project you have been working on for years is about telling multiple stories. Happy stories, sad stories, amazing stories. Not stories that center themselves in giving negative feelings to the player itself. You know how to write this story better than anyone, I feel that the most thoughtful decision was to make neutral routes just to make the player believe that his decisions matter, making him involved in the story as the MC. I end this saying There is a big difference between Bad and Cruel. Your decisions as the developer of this game are what has made it what it is now and I'm certain whatever plans you have for its future will satisfy you enough as a creator! Also wash yo hands and be safe!

Anxious Oliver

If you don't enjoy writing them, you shouldn't have to add them. Simple as that. I like "good" vs "best" more anyway.

Sean

in my case I think it comes down to the character, a bad ending can sometimes be fitting if the character needs a certain type of relationship, for example in the case of harold a bad ending would be a case of someone being just nice but not supportive enough or trying to dodge problem that would need to be addressed immediately thinking it would help him, these is an example btw im not a writter myself. mostly as the first comment said is more of thinking what a bad ending is, also a lot of novels also put a bad ending as a way to basically make it so the player understands the mental or emotional implications and limitations of the characters and their relationship.

Leafside

For me I'm not against bad endings as long as they're not disproportionate to what the game itself represents. Like, it's a dating sim- the point of the game is to build a relationship with these characters, so the "bad" version would be those relationships not working out, right? They don't have to go dark and distressing routes, as some do, but I think that there is some merit to showing a relationship falling through to perhaps highlight unhealthy aspects of relationships or things that can go wrong; this game thus far has tackled some really heavy and nuanced topics in a great way in my opinion, and if there were to be bad endings I would like to see them follow suit! I dont think anyone who plays this game wants to see depressing or dark endings of these characters we've all come to love so much, but I feel like folks would appreciate the added depth and difficulty of things being able to fall through.

Lucas Contra

To be honest I don't mind the bad endings it means that you have the chance to start over and make better choices and heck those better choices might just help you irl you never know so even tho I dislike them as well they are in their own way pretty good for the story and for the mind...if you catch what I'm trying to say anyway I really do love the game and I can't wait to see what else you have in store keep up the amazing work WBI I'll be supporting you from the very back of the crowd✌️🐺💖

Kazma Cono

I think it depends a bit on what we're defining as a "bad ending" as opposed to any other. I feel like a "bad ending" can be as simple as any ending where you don't get a "happily ever after" of sorts with your chosen hubby for whatever reason, but it sounds like you're specifically taking about distinctly upsetting and negative endings in this case. Personally, I think undesirable and negative endings are an important part of choice-heavy games like Extracurricular Activities. Like, on one hand, I don't usually go out of my way to pursue bad endings in games, but on the other, I feel like not including those sort of endings kinda cheepens the experience as a whole, especially if you're going to include choices and consequences that are distinctly negative. For instance, Chester's route has a lot of choices that have and add to distinctly negative outcomes; if I were to make all the "bad" choices in a playthrough, it would make sense to get a "bad ending" with Chester, right? But if I were to make all the bad choices and still get a "good ending," it would basically mean that my choices didn't actually matter in the end. I also feel like including "bad endings" makes it more satisfying to get the "good" and "perfect" endings; getting the happiest "happily ever after" feels better if there's a risk of no happy ending at all, in my opinion. There doesn't have to be a huge spread of endings for each route, either; just the standard bad, good, and perfect endings are fine, maybe even a couple non-standard "Game Over"(s) or joke endings if you're feeling those. I hope I explained my thoughts well enough here. It's you're choice whether you want to include bad endings in the game, but a "bad ending" doesn't necessarily need to be a tragic one.

The Mysterious M3tav0X

I hate bad endings. Actually, I stopped playing games like Echo becouse of that. You try to find the best choices while you play, you get attached to the characters, and the only reward you get is a sad, dissapointing ending. Bittersweet in the best of cases. Real life already sucks way too much, so the last thing I want to do is get home after a hard day at work, and play a game that will make me feel even worse at the end. I'm so glad you gave up on the idea of a darker ending for Harold.

Aldolfooo

I think it depends on the game you're going for. For example, in another VN like Password, the whole game revolves around running into bad endings, and it makes sense with the game. In a game like yours, however, I don't necessarily think there needs to be specific bad endings if you don't want to put them in. The whole game is spent getting to know these characters and developing relationships with them. Sure, some people would be interested in seeing how the bad ending would turn out, but I don't think there's necessarily a need for a true bad ending.

Rookieblue

Personally for me I would probably not play any bad ending,mainly because I love all of your characters, and i would hate to see anything negative happened to them. That being said, I feel like bad ends could defiantly make it so our choices really matter. there have been a lot of times where I have made a decision in the game, that I felt was justified, but could potentially lead to a bad end, and I feel that would make sense rather then it not making a difference in the end or not. Anyways it is up to you and I will support the game no matter what you do.

Randastasius

I don't exactly like bad endings. I want good things for characters. But I understand that sometimes it happens. As long as it fits the story, not a 'car hit you as you walked across the street' kind of out of left field bad ending.

Bruno Adamant

I would say it depends, I've played plenty of other visual novels and I've found myself thinking. "Damn, what if I just got an awful ending here," or "This would be perfect if someone or something awful happened here." Now granted, with a bunch of them, I would feel awful about it. But with some scenarios where something terrible happens, not necessarily a bad ending, is refreshing in a never-ending sea of happy go lucky bubbles. Of course, that's not the reason why people play vns, most do it for the husbandos or waifu material. Point being, most people play it for good feelings, intricate stories, or art. Of course, if you want a sadder story or such you can always look for something like that. However, having more possible negative takes or endings feels more realistic in some scenarios rather than everyone else coming out unscathed. But every now and again throwing a curveball is nice and adds more dynamic to the novel. Of course, this is all up to the discretion of the writer of said novel. However, there are perfect opportunities where having something bad ensuing feels more... hmmm... I don't know, appropriate, I guess? Cant necessarily think of the right word at the moment. Bad endings do not feel good for anyone involved most of the time, especially if the writer doesn't enjoy it. I feel like bad endings or takes are more a product of circumstance rather than basing your story around it. If you as an author see an opportunity to could create a bad ending as a branching path and you actually wish to write it, then, by all means, go ahead. But if it feels forced and or not in good taste to you, then don't. That's my take on bad endings anyway, I prefer if it's done in good taste and makes sense.

Serg

I am not a fan of bad endings that just needlessly torture the characters and the player. After seeing the bad ending in Leo's route from Echo I completely stopped playing that game about half a year ago and have no desire whatsoever to pick it back up. If you don't feel comfortable doing bad endings you shouldn't force yourself to. As others have said, there are neutral endings and good versus perfect endings you could do instead.

Alexander Lukas Bryant

Bad endings can be whatever you deem them to be. It could be overindulgence of a positive quality, (Chester's protective urges for example) or it could be underappreciation of character's passion. Endings with less than stellar results provide ample opportunity to truly mold a character, and allow readers to get to know them as an individual that is much more than the sum of their interests. From a story-telling standpoint, this VN occurs within roughly a month's time. A ton can go wrong in new and budding relationships. There could be a significant lack of meshing that transpires between MC and their selected husbando. Bad endings don't have to be violent or incredibly dark, they're often avoided anyway. But there are incredible story telling benefits and character development opportunities that come from having them. CGB's "See No Evil" as an example, you really have to dig in to how the world works, and if you want the perfect ending, you need to put in the work that any relationship would require.

Kilik Odagawa

Honestly, I struggled on the play throughs where I decided I would choose the mean or bad options. It made me feel like an ass the entire time. I don't want to be mean to them :(

BigBeautifulBadger

Bad routes or negative runs seems strange and out of place within a VN like EA just because the point of it is romance, though the options for a bad outcome are available. I'm not against it but I'm not a person to play for a bad ending. Thematically, it doesn't really make sense, but if you're playing with the purpose of a bad end and the writing wraps it up nicely, I don't see much of a problem with it as long as the bad endings make sense contextually and aren't turning the game into a horror game.

Jon

I'm not exactly a fan of bad endings but I guess it's just from other VNs I've played that have some extreme bad endings, if there are scenarios where a character stops interacting with the MC or something similar as a bad ending I think that'd be a good choice since it's a bad ending to their relationship not the characters life.

Lovat

In this case, I don't want any bad endings. The characters have already gone through enough as is. Id hate to see any of continue to suffer.

Scatman4000

bad routes give a reason to choose the same character and fleshed them out more if done correctly. it gives a different perspective to the character and makes you value the good route even more. as for ideas.. them moving away, bad breakups with no way to make up and seeing them be happy without you, stuff like that maybe. a really bad ending ala suicide feels too extreme for the tone of this game, although it's a sadly realistic possibility for a bad breakup/relationship especially for someone like Coach's case.

swirlybeard

I think it depends on the context. This novel is generally light and the characters almost always do things lovingly so I think for this specifically it can be a little bit of a bummer since the rest of it is so positive. Perhaps a bad ending could be counterweighted with some sort of payoff in another way to lessen that blow.

Hossdoggy Derous

I vote for no. I really hate them. The reason is due to my past being traumatic so I avoid anything dark

Everos

It would be interesting to see what the bad ending would be like. It'd give the player another perspective of the world of EA. Although, I always go for the good ending especially with Harold. I don't want anything bad happening to him! Like what you said, to go for a bad ending, you'd have to put effort into it just like having to put effort into getting a good ending.

Graydoge

I'd say, if you feel uncomfortable doing really horrible endings, dont do it. Good and neutral endings are always nice. You could also maybe create a secret ending? Or a combo ending if you have saved for good endings in multiple paths.

Glitch the Iron

I hate bad endings that are dark. Sometimes it’s necessary, but I usually don’t find that to be the case.

Evan Downing

Bad endings always seem... forced to me. As you said, you have to go out of your way to get them and the results just end up being what you expect, a disaster. I generally like the concept of a good vs perfect ending dynamic. The whole point of a VN is to romance a person, not torture them and if you do it the best way possible, why not get a different outcome?

GrimFloof

No negative routes. I hate bad endings in games or playing a bad guy. In games like this I think bad endings are just a cheap way to get people interested in a game, for the prestige of getting all endings. Your routes for all your characters are so well developed you don't need to have a bad ending.

Hutexa

Every game should have bad endings, lol) Just make them not too long. Like, it the game's plot has a fork, I make a decision and that defines that I'm gonna get a bad ending, I don't want to see that bad ending after 2 hours of the game play because of that early choice)

Artem

Like... It's one thing, if it's a realistic turn of events for whatever reason, and the writing justifies it, but otherwise.... I'm not a fan of bad endings just for the sake of them. And even knowing they exist, I usually don't go for them because I don't want to go to all the effort of trying to get them just to like.. feel depressed.

Leo Fairmane

I am not a fan of endings which would be truly awful, mostly because I play games like this one for the positive aspects of the stories that they tell.

derrg

I'm with Kagechi. The way things have gone, it's been an interesting ride already. And that's without their ever having to be an actual bad ending. There was darius's accident, there was the coach's issue with his shut down after his depression spell, there was the situation with Vernon, so things have already had a few interesting moments. An outright bad ending, just seems like it would take away from what you've already done.

Bobby Thornbody

happy endings only please , I hate having to look up walkthroughs.

Bloodmage77

Personally, I have never been a fan of bad endings and never try for them whether they are there or not. Stuff like that tends to bum me out a lot after I see it.

Wildbear91

Personally, I could never make myself go through the bad endings. I get super attached to whoever Im romancing, so to actively try and see something bad happen to them just makes me feel bad too

Nerdy Wrath

If they make sense in context, a bad ending is a good thing to have. If it’s something that comes out of nowhere, I’ll have a problem with it.

badaimrac00n

For the most part I don't mind bad routes existing but don't ever rly wanna find them or seek them out. Idk, I feel neutral abt them

Slime Enby

Mmm I don’t usually do bad endings unless there the sexy kind but if it’s not to dark i think they’re ok and justifiable

jaquane patterson

I think I would agree with you that people would have to intentionally try to get the bad ending which certainly isn’t why I play vn’s or more specifically ECA. So I think you can add them in the game but I personally wouldn’t actively seek out those endings on purpose

Mr_Apples6747

I kinda don’t want to see anyone go trough a bad ending especially my papa bear so I would be happy without bad endings but I love your work so keep it up (would love a weeding scene with all the characters)

Eblos Sni

I don't mind bad endings but a lot of other games I play are so brutal with their bad endings I try and stay away from them.

Candycorns

Generally my thought on the subject is "Good" vs "Perfect" endings. You know, give the player a little more with the perfect ending, weather that be emotionally or otherwise

Kaz

These days? Too many bad endings happening as it is.

LDM

I'd rather go straight to the true ending honestly, you've been putting so much for these routes already. I'd just feel bad to see an ending where all your hard work goes to shit. I don't wanna break their hearts or something worse happens

Kageichi

Would be a great idea. But don't push it too dark. I do that want to see the one's I love dead...

IncorPaw