Change to Channel Giveaways
Added 2020-06-29 14:38:13 +0000 UTCHello and hope you're all doing well. I'm writing this to let you guys know that I'm going to have to make some changes to the Patreon Giveaway. I've recently been informed that Patreon doesn't allow 'raffle' style giveaways on its platform at all. It wasn't something I'd noticed when first setting it up (they basically started with giving out a box of intercessors randomly to one Patreon).
Basically I'm not allowed to either allow bigger contributions to have more chance of winning giveaway prizes (e.g. $1 = chance in the draw as I had been doing previously) and also there must be a free way to enter outside of Patreon.
I really want to keep on doing Giveaways for the channel as they're fun and it creates some excitement to post out some exciting miniatures to supporters of the channel.
My thought is to do monthly giveaways where you can both enter here (automatically) and also have a post on Facebook that you can comment on to enter. I was aiming to do something along the lines of 'Example 3' on these guidelines: https://tinyurl.com/y7go2kp2
If anyone has any thoughts on this, please let me know down in the comments (or any other ideas for additional benefits I could provide for Patreons for that matter).
Sincere apologies for the disruption, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on the issue.
Thank you for your support as always, your generosity is what allows me to exist as a full time youtuber at the moment.
Comments
as long as i win im not bothered :P
ozmaz Jackson-Titjen
2020-07-27 08:43:32 +0000 UTCAgreed, and the model pictures entered were awesome to scroll through :)
Tom Geytenbeek
2020-07-11 22:15:18 +0000 UTCNope, went ahead under the new Facebook system - I announced the winners on the channel update this week
Auspex Tactics
2020-07-07 13:41:35 +0000 UTCWas the giveaway just cancelled?
Dune
2020-07-07 13:39:21 +0000 UTCseems like a nice change. i like the idea of everyone having an equal shot.
ellyy
2020-07-02 16:17:08 +0000 UTCThanks, will give this thought for the future. Afraid if it was just Patreons it'd be seen as offering a kind of 'stealth benefit' off platform which I can't imagine they'd see favourably (particularly if it violate their policies)
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-30 10:27:10 +0000 UTCThanks for understanding - yeah certainly no need for any guilt! Really appreciate your support at whatever level - it's the nature of crowdfunding :)
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-30 10:25:10 +0000 UTCReally appreciate the support :)
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-30 10:23:41 +0000 UTCThanks man, yeah for better or worse it looks like that it's a change that has to be made...
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-30 10:23:30 +0000 UTCYeah, I'm totally open to having a Patreon contest of some kind in the future - maybe painting or something else. Could be a way of keeping things within the supporters
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-30 10:22:46 +0000 UTCI see your predicament. Totally support your idea of offering it on FB/other Social Media so at least even if they're not contributing financially, they're still contributing to marketing. TBH, I don't mind the lifting of the $1 = 1 ticket. Although you're a business (of sorts), I don't want to feel guilty that I can't support you as much as someone else can. You're my first Patreon and guilt over "not paying enough" was not something I had anticipated feeling.
Stuart Glasson
2020-06-30 03:36:40 +0000 UTCThat'd take too much of your time. I'd rather you spend your time on content rather than judging pictures.
Stuart Glasson
2020-06-30 03:27:07 +0000 UTCKeep us posted 👍
Tom Geytenbeek
2020-06-29 21:53:31 +0000 UTCCan't speak for everyone, but I doubt any of us will lower our donations either- it was a pretty sweet benefit, but it's not why we chose to support you :) hope you manage to figure something out that works well for everyone
Tom Geytenbeek
2020-06-29 21:24:08 +0000 UTCDon't stress too much mate, it sucks, but we'll live :) chances to get a box are a bit more daunting now, but hey, more people have a chance now too 👍
Tom Geytenbeek
2020-06-29 21:18:20 +0000 UTCPerhaps you could look at the "option 2" approach and invite community voting on some content related to the channel (e.g. best/funniest/most grimdark comment from patrons this month)? It'll be more work for you unfortunately. Might get more engagement though?
Nicholas Harmer
2020-06-29 20:52:16 +0000 UTCSounds like a swell idea to me. As a new 40k player, thanks for all of the great videos!
Matthew Warren
2020-06-29 20:47:55 +0000 UTCYeah, it's a real shame to be honest. I know, planning to keep it sensible by asking people to post a picture of a mini with todays date written on or something. Should help keep the bots at bay!
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:46:01 +0000 UTCYeah - pretty much exactly that. It has to be 'single entry' for patreons (else it's not classed as a 'giveaway') and and yeah opening it to facebook was the plan. The 'post an art piece' is a really good idea. Good way to keep the bots at bay.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:42:45 +0000 UTCAlso, the concern about bots and spam from "free entrants" that I saw is something to think about, in my opinion
Matthew Warren
2020-06-29 20:37:22 +0000 UTCYeah, I totally understand where you're coming from, especially given the fact that Patreon has basically a monopoly. Unless you want to start up an OnlyFans account... :D I appreciate your open communication btw, it shows how much you care about the community!
Tombguard
2020-06-29 20:35:53 +0000 UTCI think you have a few considerations. First, do you want a singular entry for each patron, not per dollar? That fixes one part. Second, is do you want to open it up to social media? The usual like and share could be beneficial. They could get an entry that way. Patrons can double dip if they like or patrons are automatically enrolled without having to share and like. Add in another "Art" contest for 3 extra tickets covers the last area. Top pieces of 40k art can get an extra ticket. I would do a combo of all 3. I can imagine the like and share might expose you to the bots so adding a requirement of an art piece to enter might limit the spamming.
Austin Cooperrider
2020-06-29 20:34:39 +0000 UTCCheers, yeah it is pretty rubbish - I thought it was a fun little benefit
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:34:11 +0000 UTCThanks, I do appreciate the brainstorming :)
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:33:29 +0000 UTCSeems a bit backwards that they're actively working against people using their platform, but I understand the multitude of legal issues that they could probably face over it. Sucks that some patrons will lose a reason to support the channel, though.
Matthew Warren
2020-06-29 20:33:28 +0000 UTCIt's okay my faith in the Emperor remains.(but really that sucks)
Roberto Mendez
2020-06-29 20:17:46 +0000 UTCEh, your helping me teach my kids and best friend how to play my favorite game. I don't mind tossing you a tank or special character once a month for all the help.
Christopher Carpenter
2020-06-29 20:08:50 +0000 UTCThank you for the ideas though, I appreciate the insights
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:04:43 +0000 UTCI see what you mean about it being hard to prove a 'gift' legally, but I don't think they'd have to prove it legally - if they felt is was a raffle they could boot me off the site regardless of 100% proof. I really can't afford to have that kind of threat hanging over me as this is essentially my job now (for better or worse!)
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:04:07 +0000 UTCYeah, I've posted this as soon as I realised my error myself, and have since taken down those posts so as not to mislead others. I agree it could be something that's exploitable on a Facebook page. I don;t think I've got much time to organise something different for this one. If it becomes a problem I will certainly reconsider for next time.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 20:02:07 +0000 UTCno worries, it were just an idea
BKL200
2020-06-29 20:01:45 +0000 UTCYeah sadly that would be considered a 'raffle' for the box that was only accessible to Patreons. I imagine most youtubers would likely get away with it if done infrequently, but if it was reported to Patreon then it wouldn't be allowed. I wasn't even aware of these rules myself for the first couple of giveaways, it's only been flagged up as the channel has grown and I'm under more scrutiny haha
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 19:58:27 +0000 UTCsadly it's not allowed to let people who pay more to have an additional chance of winning (it's basically what makes it a 'raffle' rather than a 'giveaway'). It is a shame - I thought it was a good reward, as it rewards the channel's most generous contributors (such as yourself) more.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 19:54:41 +0000 UTCYeah, was planning on maybe saying people had to give the FB page a like and subscribe to the channel, so would still be supporting the channel in social media
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 19:52:37 +0000 UTCCheers, appreciate the input!
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 19:51:44 +0000 UTCUnfortunately it's just moving the problem - any 'random chance' giveaway where people can't enter for free not allowed sadly.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 19:51:29 +0000 UTCAn idea, but idk if patreon will be happy with it; the raffle would have several teirs ranging from free where anyone could enter and have an equal chance of winning a small prize eg a couple of paints or brushes, to a big raffle as it were where peaple have an equal chance to win a large prize such as the indomitable box
BKL200
2020-06-29 19:47:16 +0000 UTCSure thing. I definitely understand your predicament and would not advise trying to circumvent Patreon. If you are looking for other perks to offer on Patreon, other creators I follow do things like making some of their monthly videos accessible to patrons-only, or they host a youtube-live once a month where they can interact with patrons answering questions and stuff. You should also consider a discord. Some of the best makers really build their followers into a community. Good luck!
Mike Michaels
2020-06-29 19:33:45 +0000 UTCHmm, that's a tough choice. Once you open the giveaway to "the public", it will get FLOODED by bots, fake accounts and the like. Seen it happen on numerous occasions when other creators tried the same. Plus it's bound to leave some people disgruntled since you advertised the giveaway as one of the perks of being a patron across multiple videos and in the YouTube community section. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. ;) You could, however, re-brand the giveaway as a "gift" - you are gifting X amounts of prize Z. As long as you don't explicitly tie winning to the patron status, you should be in the clear. Your reasoning behind picking the winners is personal and Patreon cannot force you to disclose why you picked patron X. Legally speaking, it's impossible to prove that you did or did not factor in the patron status and/or levels
Tombguard
2020-06-29 19:17:21 +0000 UTCTo explain a bit further what I mean is that you could also have just simply being a patreon give you an entry, it is not as fair as the dollar ratio method but it at least benefits the patreons some what more. So in other words you have 3 sets and give them away 1 on each platform. A bit less fair but a good option in the meantime while we figure something better out.
Cody Krueger
2020-06-29 19:08:03 +0000 UTCI have seen multiple other channels do give aways like this: they have like 3 boxes to give away, 1 is based on who likes and subscribes on youtube, 1 is to anyone who does the same on instagram or other social media platform etc., and the last 1 to any one of their patreons. Not sure if patreon would consider that random chance? Or perhaps the entry is on YouTube but patreons get a second entry or an amount based on dollar's contributed? Someone may have already said this last part just brainstorming.
Cody Krueger
2020-06-29 18:58:18 +0000 UTCI agree with Option 3.
Cromilin
2020-06-29 18:05:57 +0000 UTCYou can make "liking and commenting on a youtube vid = 1 ticket". And other activities like that.
Christopher Carpenter
2020-06-29 16:55:58 +0000 UTCOption 3 doesn't seem that bad. Seems like it's just required to be open platform. You can continue with the $1 per "additional" ticket, but it seems like there must be an option for at least one free open platform option to enter. When implemented like that, it could lead to more ways to enter.
Christopher Carpenter
2020-06-29 16:54:26 +0000 UTCYouTube Channel 'Members', so you pay to subscribe via YT and that yields a link to the member-only Discord. Draws are last Saturday of every month at 8:30PM, comment goes up, reply to the comment within 5 minutes and you're in the draw. Robot does the rest.
Tom Bulpit
2020-06-29 16:25:50 +0000 UTCWill look into it - thanks for the info.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:48:24 +0000 UTCYou'd be automatically entered on here too - I'd just need to also open it up on another platform for free
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:48:09 +0000 UTCI would suggest doing it via gleam.io and have an additional option that patreon subs can enter with. I don't know if they have an option to link in to patreon like with twitch/twitter/youtube/discord but they might. If that doesn't work, you could do a gleam.io giveaway with a daily entry option as well, and give out the link on patreon a few days or a week or whatever earlier than on youtube such that patrons have the option of using the daily entries for a few extra days. I'm not sure if this is ok with the Patreon rules though but it's worth checking out I think.
Predrag Prodanovic
2020-06-29 15:44:38 +0000 UTCMy only issue is I do not have a Facebook account but if we can still enter by other means then that will be okay.
Lance Saba
2020-06-29 15:43:51 +0000 UTCThanks man
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:42:25 +0000 UTCThanks - I feel it would be a way of rewarding non patreons helping support the channel too e.g. if they like the FB page or subscribe to the Youtube
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:42:03 +0000 UTCI don't want to type my next suggestion on this site.....
mark jones
2020-06-29 15:41:52 +0000 UTCAre they 'free to enter' ones, or Patreon ones out of interest? Thanks for the insight!
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:41:12 +0000 UTCChapter Master Valrak does the giveaways over Discord, the only downside is members need to be online as the giveaway takes place to be eligible to enter.
Tom Bulpit
2020-06-29 15:36:55 +0000 UTCI appreciate your integrity. Personally, I like the idea of just allowing entry on social media, so I say go for it.
Alexander Irwin
2020-06-29 15:34:06 +0000 UTCYou could hold monthly painting competitions as a way. I think the one currently on the discord has been very popular.
TtoTheRock (cubman25)
2020-06-29 15:30:40 +0000 UTCAh, cheeky...
Radgast
2020-06-29 15:29:31 +0000 UTCAfraid it'd still be prohibited under Patreon - you're not allowed to offer 'stealth' benefits that aren't declared. All it would take would be one person to report it and it'd mean the page would be shut down for good...
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:25:43 +0000 UTCThat could well be a possibility for the future, would be something to look into. I believe I'd need to get some kind of 'raffle license' not to be on the wrong side of the law technically. But could be something to explore.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:24:23 +0000 UTCI believe it'd still be seen as pretty shady activity - essentially offering a kind of 'stealth benefit' which could still lead to the page getting shut down unfortunately
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:23:01 +0000 UTCThanks man, I do really appreciate it. I believe according to their policies it has to be pretty much equally easy to enter on here as opposed to online.
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:22:02 +0000 UTCUnfortunately it would still be something that Patreon would prohibit if they found out about it and could lead to the page being shut down. Also to my understanding raffles in general need to have a license in the UK and that's not something I have...
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:20:30 +0000 UTCThat would certainly be a possibility - is is allowed if it is a 'contest of skill' rather than a random raffle
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:18:59 +0000 UTCI'm afraid doing it stealthily just isn't going to be an option (much as I'd like to keep on doing it the same way myself) - it would still be breaking the rules on Patreon, and I really cant take the risk to have my main stream of income as a creator shut down at any moment. All it would take would be for Patreon to do a tiny bit of investigation and shut the page down for good...
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:17:50 +0000 UTCI'm afraid doing it stealthily just isn't going to be an option (much as I'd like to keep on doing it the same way myself) - it would still be breaking the rules on Patreon, and I really cant take the risk to have my main stream of income as a creator shut down at any moment. All it would take would be for Patreon to do a tiny bit of investigation and shut the page down for good...
Auspex Tactics
2020-06-29 15:16:31 +0000 UTCI would run the raffle on another platform and have entry's made via PayPal donation.....
mark jones
2020-06-29 15:09:21 +0000 UTCMake a discord or facebook group/room for patreons only and do all the giveaways in those places
Radgast
2020-06-29 15:06:14 +0000 UTCI like this idea a lot. Very wholesome and fair
Randon Dupont
2020-06-29 15:01:54 +0000 UTCWhy not have viewers able to enter by creating some 40k-related content. Draw a picture, send a photo of a painted model shown in one of your videos, etc. It gets around the rule, incentives people to interact and also gives patrons the benefit of circumventing the entry process.
Prom Knight
2020-06-29 14:53:00 +0000 UTCCould just make a facebook group for Patreons only, that can only be accessed through here - then do it through the groups members (if that gets through the Patreon restrictions?)
Jacob Woodcock
2020-06-29 14:45:38 +0000 UTCJust do it via Discord. It can be listed as one of the benefits there as opposed to officially on Patreon.
TtoTheRock (cubman25)
2020-06-29 14:44:09 +0000 UTCIn the US, corporations get around this by allowing the "no purchase necessary" option to be a mailed-in postcard or self-addressed-stamped-envelope. I don't know how many people go through the effort of mailing in a postcard, but there it is. I jumped on Patreon just to show you some support.
Mike Michaels
2020-06-29 14:44:06 +0000 UTCI would be perfectly okay with it being entry based
Iron Father
2020-06-29 14:42:36 +0000 UTCcould it be moved to the patron room on the discord server? or would that be too complex
Henry C
2020-06-29 14:41:57 +0000 UTCJust do it privately, make a note of who pays what, enter it into a spreadsheet, use a random number generator and do that, if you want do a YouTube video during the draw process.
louis joy
2020-06-29 14:41:48 +0000 UTC
