Grrl Power #1278 - Alpha sucker punch
Added 2024-07-25 10:00:09 +0000 UTCThank you for the support! You guys are awesome!
In reality, I don't actually know how much of a speed advantage the smaller guy has in a fight. Overall mass is probably more of a factor. A chonky 5' fighter vs a 6' 4" lanky dude? I suppose fighting style is a factor as well.
The thing is, given the square cube law, there's probably more of a difference between a 5' 10" lean muscled guy and a bunch of beefcakes topping 7' than there is between a 5' and 6' fighter, so speed could actually become a significant factor at some point.
Drawing this page taught me a few things, 1) Drawing a shitload of speedlines isn't necessarily faster than drawing proper backgrounds. 2) That for as long as I've been doing this comic, I'm still not very good at drawing action scenes. There's a lot more of an art to speed lines than I really appreciate until I start trying to lay them in. I think the ones on this page are too... thick? Dense? 3) Flipping through One-Punch Man for action scene references will make anyone feel inadequate about their ability to draw action scenes. The fact that there are dedicated background artists and there's probably a guy just for speed lines and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a guy whose job is just drawing rubble doesn't change the fact that I want my action scenes to look better. I recognize there's another huge difference between my comic and something like OPM, in that shonen type manga tend to put out roughly two pages a day. At that rate, they can spend 8 pages on one guy sword slashing another dude to bits, where if I tried that the scene would take a month. That doesn't mean I can't still do a cool action set piece, but in practical terms it probably means my action scenes will be a little more terse.
That said, I'm going to try and improve my action skills over the next few pages, though I am limited by the fact that no one is going to chop a city block in half during this fight, or shatter the entire base, or do anything that would register above an 8.5 on the Richter Scale.
Oh, and I think this will be explained a few pages in, but they decided to go full contact because between the med-bay on Cora's ship and Doc Chevy, anything short of a torn brain or a missing eyeball can be fixed up in fairly short order.
Comments
somehow i thought about the IP Man vs Mike Tyson fight from IP Man 3 XD
Otoger
2024-07-26 18:12:33 +0000 UTCi think he means the original stuff of his Web comics which was rough
Otoger
2024-07-26 18:03:38 +0000 UTCIf your speed of movement comes in equal measure with speed of perception and reaction then yeah, you'd be untouchable. Still, if you're punching metal, your fist better be just as tough.
Ketter
2024-07-26 12:27:46 +0000 UTCJust talking unarmed hand-to-hand, like the comic
John Van Stry
2024-07-26 04:10:02 +0000 UTCBut they're actors in a movie. I did it in RL, in timed matches.
John Van Stry
2024-07-26 04:09:42 +0000 UTCUnless you're using a force multiplier like something with an edge or point
Todd Ellner
2024-07-26 03:19:14 +0000 UTCThat's one, at least until his diaphragm unclenches.
eddi_TBH
2024-07-26 03:00:36 +0000 UTCJet Lee vs Dolph Lundgren in the first Expendables comes to mind.
William Elliott
2024-07-25 23:30:45 +0000 UTCSpeed is important, but size tends to trump that - all things being equal. Speed comes from training (not taking super heroes with super speed into account). The way hand-to-hand (any martial arts) works is that you have two effect zones. Those things you can hit with your hands, and those things (further away of course) you can hit with your feet. So does your opponent. Hand work is always faster than footwork, because your arms are shorter and lighter, so they have more speed. There are ways to 'cheat' at this, but it's not really 'cheating' you just start your feet moving before your hands, so they think your feet are faster than they are. Yes, I used to do a lot of this. So to sum up, shorter people have less reach. They do NOT move any faster than taller people. People who are trained and therefore know what they want to do, are faster than those who do not. And high kicks will almost always get you in trouble.
John Van Stry
2024-07-25 23:07:11 +0000 UTCTorn as a sprain maybe?
Mark Magagna
2024-07-25 22:26:23 +0000 UTCIf you have 5+ people on one guy, generally you can sit on e.g. his arm. Not many people can actually lift you off at that point unless you're really small.
Mark Magagna
2024-07-25 22:25:45 +0000 UTCthis is also referenced in fire force to explain the power advantage Shinra has over the other characters. he is supposed to be the fastest in world.
IHazNoFace
2024-07-25 21:47:24 +0000 UTCYep. But that's a product of his skill, not his speed/physicality. He's the only one who technically doesn't actually have powers. He's just "that good".
Justaguy
2024-07-25 20:58:53 +0000 UTCMax only beats Math when she 'cheats' by using her super speed. Without that she still loses (unless she just goes full armour and can't be moved I guess)
Fogel
2024-07-25 20:41:55 +0000 UTCProblems all over.
john kraemer
2024-07-25 20:04:12 +0000 UTCGood points. I think we can assume that Math has training in multiple techniques, so has flexibility in that regard. I think the biggest question going into this fight is the training and experience of the space boys. We know very little about them when it comes to fighting ability, it could turn out one is a grand master of Space Fu and will give Math a fight like Jaborwacky does. Or they have neural links and will effectively fight as one person in four places (Harem, but with tech). Or at the very least they have fought as a team many times and know each others moves, strengths, and weaknesses, so will give Math a good fight that will likely come down to how well everyone takes hits. On the other hand they could all just be bruisers used to just punching problems and better with guns, and this could be very embarrassing for them. We simply don't know. But, from a meta story telling perspective, I don't think this is going to be a one sided fight. Whether Math wins or loses is unknown, but I don't think it will be easy for him.
Eric Loken
2024-07-25 19:57:50 +0000 UTCHonestly, that many speed lines starts to ruin the effect. Fewer lines, but done in a converging manner to emphasize WHAT is moving quickly, and slightly blurring the fastest moving portions of the image works much better. Like this it starts to lose some of the impression of just HOW fast they're supposed to be moving, especially Math's movements. Instead, it looks more like Math has an aura about his feet and fists that can just pulverize through their resistance, rather than moving so fast that they couldn't block in time.
Anton Schleef
2024-07-25 19:57:05 +0000 UTCEspecially when the one doing the kick is doing it with purely human range physical abilities. I won't say he might not have a super power that gives him an advantage in both the Observe portion of the OODA loop and in processing the entire loop quickly, nor in being able to learn and incorporate various martial arts, but that would be the only power he has and there have been exceptional individuals in history who could do the same.
Anton Schleef
2024-07-25 19:52:54 +0000 UTCHow well the blows land on Math is going to depend a great deal on whether or not the style(s) he's trained in emphasize deflecting, blocking, absorbing, or transitioning the blows. In the first you redirect the incoming blow. In the second you use a limb that you can 'afford' to have injured to take the blow. In the third you just focus on being able to take the blows directly on the torso. In the fourth you redirect your own momentum so that even though the blow lands it lands with only a fraction of the force. Each one has distinct advantages and disadvantages, though if you're observant and fast enough for the fourth it gives you the best set of options, followed by deflecting, as it allows you more ways to use your opponents force against them, especially in a group fight. As Math's 'power' (I'm not entirely sure he has one) is being a supreme martial arts master, and probably pairs some exceptional combat awareness with that, I would say that IF he loses it'll be more of a pyrrhic victory for the others rather than a definite victory.
Anton Schleef
2024-07-25 19:47:34 +0000 UTCAnd why SHOULDN'T he quote Kung Fu Hustle? One of the best Kung Fu movies of all time! One of the few movies that I can't decide if dub or sub is better. I love them both equally!
Gelatinous Cube
2024-07-25 19:45:32 +0000 UTCThat describes most mangaka's first few volumes, whether it's all one work (like One Punch Man or Rave Master) or split across several works.
Anton Schleef
2024-07-25 19:41:06 +0000 UTCAs far as speed goes...a bullet is effectively a sharp rock that goes VERY fast, sooo...The equation for kinetic energy is KE = 1/2 x mass x velocity *squared*, as a reference
Scott Brown
2024-07-25 19:40:54 +0000 UTCFor equal levels of training, size provides an advantage. Training is a force multipler though, and enough of it can offset the advantages of size. There's a reason linebackers are the size they are, but there's also a reason MMA fighters aren't all the size of linebackers. Combat has an OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. The goal is to complete that loop and act faster than the other guy so he has to react. "Three moves ahead" describes knowing how to force an opponent into a disadvantage as they react to threats they can't ignore. Math has a lot of speed, an insane range of motion, and enough knowledge to get the effect of superhuman strength. It takes a lot of 'big' to counterbalance 'can kick an opponent through a brick wall'.
mike stone
2024-07-25 19:29:24 +0000 UTC"In reality, I don't actually know how much of a speed advantage the smaller guy has in a fight. Overall mass is probably more of a factor. A chonky 5' fighter vs a 6' 4" lanky dude? I suppose fighting style is a factor as well." A long time ago, I knew a guy who was a bit of a sociopath, he was a bouncer because it allowed him to legally hurt people. He was a big guy, not that tall, but not short either (6' give or take), but he worked out and was quite muscular and solid. He told me once he was scared of fighting guys smaller than him (like me) because they are faster and he'll never hit them. I didn't tell him (I had no desire to remove his delusion that I was dangerous to him) that sure, if I knew what I was doing (which I don't) I might be able to dodge a bunch of his hits, and land some unanswered, but the difference in mass and strength would mean he could likely weather whatever I had to give, and one good hit from him and I'd be on the floor. In his case he also knew a wiry martial artist, which is likely where his mistake was coming from, in thinking it was just the size that mattered and not the training. So with both the guy I knew, and Math's fight here is that it will be a competition between speed and brute strength, and brute strength should not be underestimated. Also, training will matter on both sides. The difference in speed here is not great enough - he doesn't have super speed, so he shouldn't be able to always dodge - and thus they will land some hits, and Math is going to feel them. If it was four random guys against Math I would put my money on Math as he could use them against each other, make them get in each other's way. But these four are used to fighting together, so if they have worked out the tactics, they would stand a very good chance of taking him, because they can make him dodge one blow, just to run into another. It will come down to how well the four of them work together, and how good their skills are compared to Math (it seems Math is being pretty arrogant here and likely assuming they are dumb brutes who will just swing at him like boxers). Also... high kicks are flashy and look good on film and such, but in actual combat are not a great idea in a frontal attack like he did here. The problem is that if someone gets hold of your leg, you are fuuuuuucked. Basically, if your leg is turned, your entire body will rotate with it - was done to me once in practise - one second you are right side up, the next second you are landing on your head. Not to mention you are definitely going to have problems dodging if someone is holding onto your leg. Yes, speed will help there, but the leg is a large limb designed for power, not speed (even a sprinter's legs are slow compared to people's arms and hands).
Eric Loken
2024-07-25 19:19:14 +0000 UTCI kind of like the excessive amount of speed lines. Its completely over the top, but I think that shows just how absurdly fast Math is moving.
Theshank
2024-07-25 18:54:28 +0000 UTCYeah, once you have 5+ people piling on one guy even a significantly bigger guy is going to have problems. Its the basic bear vs wolf pack issue, though of course it needs to be one of the smaller/weaker kinds of bear and they're gonna need considerably more than 5 to make it a real fight.
Aclys
2024-07-25 17:24:22 +0000 UTCIt also gets harder for the bigger guy to throw serious punches and not risk doing serious damage to the smaller guy.
Aclys
2024-07-25 17:22:18 +0000 UTCAnd even then only by using her powers, in a no-power match she cant beat matt either if I recall right.
Aclys
2024-07-25 17:20:53 +0000 UTCNeeds more action lines...
Jim the Pirate
2024-07-25 16:35:39 +0000 UTCThere's gotta be a shader or three out there that can do decent speed lines.
Person
2024-07-25 13:50:25 +0000 UTCBet Math sucks at doing the Yoda voice.
Town Crier
2024-07-25 13:30:03 +0000 UTCWho on the original team has beat Math consistently? Max, I think? That's it, right?
Brett Peirce
2024-07-25 13:18:59 +0000 UTCJust remember, One Punch Man didn't start out as the detailed manga it currently is. The original art is not all that good.
Haelerin challenges you to a duel, Gamechamp3000!
2024-07-25 13:17:40 +0000 UTCThe way he looks like an eldritch horror on the top right is just pure awesome. Like his power set isn't very flashy (at least not 'I can take down starships and/or survive nukes unharmed' flashy), and we've seen him get beaten, but to veteran adventurers and soldiers, people who KNOW what should be possible and what shouldn't, he's fucking terrifying.
Playwars
2024-07-25 12:48:44 +0000 UTC"torn brain" does sound bad. I definitely don't want that.
qxvw198
2024-07-25 12:19:04 +0000 UTCI am reminded of Eddie Hall vs Neffati Brothers (2 fighters). Eddie was just tossing them around like dolls, once they decided to actually fight. The strength disparity was just too great. On the other side of the coin, most multiple fights end up with a dog pile on the singular person and the beating then continues until morale improves :).
Phoenix
2024-07-25 12:11:55 +0000 UTCAXE GANG SALUTE!!!
Gigifiy
2024-07-25 12:08:13 +0000 UTCThere are weight classes in fighting sports for a good reason. Once one person is sufficiently larger it gets hard for the other one to make unarmed attacks that can't be blocked with little effort.
john kraemer
2024-07-25 11:45:45 +0000 UTCThat's "The EVIL Axe Gang salutes!", to you! ;P
Anti-No
2024-07-25 10:57:41 +0000 UTCYou need a lot of speed to overcome an extra foot to half a foot of reach, and just plain hitting harder. Usually the big guy? Not really noticeably slower either.
Justaguy
2024-07-25 10:18:33 +0000 UTCGotta put some respec on kung fu hustle, one of the greatest action comedy movies of all time. Makes sense math would watch that movie religiously, let’s just hope he can put the right amount of respec on its name and make Stephen Chow proud.
TrixieTurner
2024-07-25 10:09:24 +0000 UTCThat's a nasty combo. Force someone to dodge in a specific way and then punish that direction. Also I think the speed lines are pretty good here. They do really convey how sudden and fast everything (actually just Math) moves
Fogel
2024-07-25 10:07:44 +0000 UTC
