Ep.160: The 'Last $100 in Your Bank Account' Economy - How Media's Love Affair with Crypto, NFTs and Gambling Preys Upon Working People

"First of all, historically, markets simply did not emerge as some autonomous domain of freedom independent of, and opposed to, state authorities. Exactly the opposite is the case. Historically, markets are generally either a side effects of government operations, especially military operations, or were directly created by government policy." - Graeber

*Stares in Marxist theory*

Patrick Flaherty

I really don't know! I think it's why you're getting a response here and why you probably feel like people are aligned against crypto. Either yes you are a crypto booster (or as the person above suggests, just feel attached to it) or you really are benevolently attempting to help poor working people by encouraging them to get into crypto and ignore the numerous criticisms of it. Many people are probably going to think both of those things are at best baffling and at worst desperately cruel so I think you can expect response of this nature to continue! It very much reads like the evangelicalism that people are becoming familiar with related to crypto.

"I mean what do you think I stand to gain from this? Do you think that maybe a I'm a crypto whale who subbed to citations needed to go to their comments sections to find people to hold my bag?"

the only reason I left the initial comment, is because by and large the podcast left is a hivemind on this topic. I don't have to listen to this episode because I've heard all of these points brought up, every few weeks or so when they need material they just recycle the same talking points about crypto. there are other things people should consider when managing their economic wellbeing than what do the podcasters think about this. if the points I have brought up are false, then please disprove them. if they're not, then I believe those are things people need to include into their calculations. It's not like i'm sniping at anyone in other comment threads, people keep replying to me, criticizing me for continuing seems weird, what do you do when people reply to you? lastly, it doesn't really matter where they're from, but i do know that adam's twitter handle doesn't include 'NYC' for no reason. but none of them are necessarily starving these days.

absoluteboi

I think you're a person who has skin in the game and criticism of the system feels like a personal attack. You're very invested in this, not only financially, but in this very comment thread. The Citations Needed hosts aren't from Brooklyn, btw. Have you listened to the episode yet? I thought it was pretty good. I wish they had more time to dig into the conflict of interest angle regarding ESPN having access to athletes and coaches while also owning a sport book company (did I hear that right? -- I don't gamble so I have a hard time keeping the vocabulary straight).

Jeannette

Yes, I believe everything I've said supports that premise. Our political and economic system is adversarial to workers. Every year our cash affords us less and less as wages perpetually lag behind inflation. I mean what do you think I stand to gain from this? Do you think that maybe a I'm a crypto whale who subbed to citations needed to go to their comments sections to find people to hold my bag?

absoluteboi

This feelings about markets and adopting postures stuff seems like it might be coming from a place of some pain so I hope the extra cash has you in a better place. And if you feel like this was the best or only way to keep yourself going, then fine. But that would only support the point - you feel compelled into this currently and potentially always empty tool basically only useful for flipping traditional currency into more of it just to get out of financial danger. I'm not sure why you would have an issue with exploring how that is not great. I guess in your mind there is a portion of people who won't be able to survive the modern market but to enter any available cash they can scrape up into crypto, but who would be put off by a meta analysis of the societal negatives of that arrangement? I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that there is a good samaritan angle there but it seems sliced pretty thin to me.

the statements i made originally are intended to get people to consider their financial circumstances beyond what the brooklyn scolds tell you to feel about this market. if my statements are not factual, then you could say i'm in some scheme to rip people off. however anyone that takes 15 minutes to look at the way the purchasing power of the dollar goes down and the general direction of the market over time should be able to confirm those simple conclusions and hopefully make a rational decision to better secure themselves if they are in a position to. like i used to be the kind of person who reflexively adopted whatever posture the brooklyn podcasters would take on a topic, which would get me nowhere on my sub minimum wage salary other than a false notion that i am somehow superior for having these opinions about things i've never bothered to understand. but my circumstances have changed, not by some benevolent act by these people who've already secured their bag despite not really moving the needle with regards to changing the conditions that put financial pressure on people who weren't born into generational wealth. i didn't come here to argue what's right or not. this episode gets recycled every few months. i just think people should consider those points when deciding whether to adopt this holier than thou posture, or take some ownership of their financial situation and make moves that will be of more help to them longterm than listening to this over and over again saying that the bottom is about to fall out, which yes, it eventually will because markets are cyclical and experiencing peaks and valleys are completely normal. at some point after the umpteenth time they'll be able to say 'see i told you so' after the market has ran up an order of magnitude and their listeners successfully missed out on that completely and not only made no progress, but regressed because regression is the outcome of inaction in this economy.

absoluteboi

I can. I can do it.

blursville

I got a date by saying “Crypto? More like klepto.”

Danh Nguyen

If you're not asking for permission, you're advocating that others get into the crypto market, or perhaps just against an effort to potentially discourage others from getting into the crypto market out of general concern for your fellow mankind? Maybe I'm too cynical but I can't imagine anyone falling for that. It's potentially genius though if it works, it's like the anti-Matt Damon move, he's playing to the wannabe bravado and you're playing to the just gotta get by. Good luck

I can't get myself to believe that Spike Lee did not go over the top on purpose in that ad: the huckster salesman outfit, the cane, the way he says "NEW" money almost sarcastically and then ends with "do your own research!" He's got to know!

V K

Crypto isn't a mode of communication it's a speculative currency and the conflation of ludditism with material criticism of material reality as it is, is the most tedious knee jerk response there is. Billions in capital are required to control, own and market crypto and other w3 products. What does a "left" use of these technologies mean beyond a grad school thesis paper? It means precisely dick. This episode, like all our episode, is concerned with criticizing the reality of the known material universe, not some theoretical utopia where entrenched far right interests don't control the space as it exist. Could some of these tech maybe have uses in a post-scarcity leftwing economy? Of course, but they don't so what does any of this mean? How does boosting, promoting, and legitimizing a space currently working to pick the pockets of working people because it may, at some point, be used to usher in communist decentralization serve any moral function other than creating yet another thin moral narrative to justify the ponzi scheme?

Citations Needed

“Slimy characters scammed my mom on the phone. Telephony is an evil technology.” As a far left early crypto enthusiast, I wish more smart, critical people would look into understanding the potential in the underlying technology of crypto to create a socialized economic system. Another battle surrendered by the left without firing a shot. We’re just handing an underlying new technology to grifters and financial oligarchs. You could literally create a fully anonymized currency that periodically distributes wealth according to any criteria you can come up with. Actual connection to the means of production. A direct democracy voting system virtually immune to fraud and doubt. NFTs are for securing the deed to your house or sharing a public bike, not trading drawings of monkeys. Oh well.

Benjamin Harris

lol no matter what cutesy millenialism you use to try to frame it that way, i promise that I am not asking for moral permission. the only mental effort i'm putting is stating and restating the fact that we're all running uphill against inflation and in the long term it erodes everyone's purchasing power if all you're doing is putting your savings in the bank and if you want to do something about that, save for learning to code (which is also bad), putting your savings in the market for the long is the only current proven option to mitigate that. taking the moral high ground doesn't actually get you anywhere in this environment unless you find a way to monetize that in podcast form despite that too not having any inherent value.

absoluteboi

Why ask for moral permission to do this thing that it seems like you're putting a lot of mental effort into justifying not needing moral permission to do? You feel forced into it because rocket ship goes up, why also try to push back on the idea that that's bad?

i agree in principle, but this is the world we are living in. do you see any change on the horizon by our politicians? any incentive for our government to change things? right now the options are watching our cash saving's value whittle down to nothing over time, or try to out run inflation. the market may be opaque, but any look at an a stock index chart, like the SPY or the Nasdaq prove that money in the market over time outpaces inflation. i personally want a socialist system to be in place, but I also want to keep my family above water in the environment that we are currently living. like I could hold my nose up and tell people that it is a virtue to stay away from markets because they 'speculative' but in 20 years when rent is double what it is now, no amount of virtue is going to help you pay for necessities.

absoluteboi

You're missing the point. Workers are being compelled to participate in a risky system instead of getting a pension, or having a guaranteed Social Security check that will cover their financial needs when they retire. We used to have a system like that, but since the 70s and 80s we've been forced to prop up the stock market with our retirement savings. Of course it's growing. They have my money, and the money of millions of other Americans, in there. If I had a guaranteed pension I would not put money into the stock market. It's far too opaque for a regular person like me to invest in, by design!

Jeannette

"This way to the Egress!"

Julie Baxter

that may be the case but over the long term those funds that were put into the market end up being valued much higher by the time they're cashed out. take any slice of the stock market and compare it to 20-30 years prior and tell me otherwise if you can find an exception. any scam that consistently ends up paying off for anyone that holds for an extended period of time is going to be a better financial decision than holding that cash in your bank where it is guaranteed to buy you less next year.

absoluteboi

In case you weren't aware, the stock market is also a scam. It's so much of a scam that workers are forced to invest it in or they'll get no matching contributions to their retirement funds.

Jeannette

could you name the next episode you cover this as "Hey, you never win"?

Robert Granniss

Just watched Dan Olsons “Line Goes Up - The Problem with NFTs” before this so im primed for this episode

Parth Mishra

i haven't actually listened to episode yet. just dropping facts. but you're right four years is arbitrary. maybe 10 would be better? the stock market is also propped up by new buyers, how about calling that a scam?

absoluteboi

this is such awesome analysis. Crypto is up compared to four years ago therefore it can't be a bubble. Why four years? Who said this? We didnt? What the fuck are you talking about? The point is the aggressive pivot to B to C is a broader indication they want to help keep the influx of new money going by expanding the pool to subprime consumers. An indication that the underlying value is basically nonexistent. It's a speculation asset with little practical real world value. Finding new people to buy in is not evidence of a sustainable economy.

Citations Needed

two things hold true as a function of time 1) markets go up 2) the dollar purchasing power goes down. after all how quickly memory fades, but 4 years ago bitcoin was the "biggest bubble of all time". it's up about 100% since then even after dropping 50% from the most recent all time high. NFTs are really fucking dumb though.

absoluteboi

First

David