January Bonus: Your Workplace Wellness Stories

I joined the Patreon late so I’m going through the bonus episodes and thank you for the content from both this and the podcast. When I heard about the comparisons to racial equity training and oversharing it reminded me of the time I put myself on mental health training to support our employees at work during lockdown and the trainer instantly encouraged people to share intimate details of our own experiences and implied it was necessary and this made me feel uncomfortable straight away. There was a session where we had to share an episode of anxiety and I deliberately shared one I thought was low stakes and as the only person of colour in the group I didn’t want to expose myself and guess whose example the trainer made fun of and belittled? This is why in these type of spaces I do not feel comfortable opening up and being vulnerable. I shouldn’t have to shed a tear to be taken more seriously or for it to feel more real but also you share parts of yourself and people don’t always treat that with kindness and compassion.

Always sleepy and slightly achy

Hehehe it's Freddy

Alysha Pitts

When Aubrey talked about getting a punching bag all my brain was doing was play Wonderwall but with "Today is gonna be the day I buy a punching bag online"

Kirstine

I do feel like king triton did her dirty. There's an untold story.

Lydthekidmaybenowmid

Thinking of you guys today. My colleague with whom I share an office has just started WW. The conversation amongst the other colleagues has been this for an hour so far. I may have to jump out of the window

Charlotte Chunawala

One of my meds caused a big weight gain. I requested larger uniforms. Next thing I’m getting emails about joining the wellness program. Sheesh.

Harry Minot

If one more coworker asks me to join the company weight watchers program, I'm pulling the fire alarm.

Kitty Lexy

Good luck, I’m pulling for you!! Hahaha!

Sharon Wheeler

and ADHD (even covered by some health insurance plans)

Cristina Rivera

omg my office biggest loser competition just started last monday (it’s a voluntary program). there’s a cash prize for the winner and i’m desperate for money bcuz i’m getting evicted. so i did everything in my power to be as heavy as possible for the first weigh in. i drank a gallon of water and stuffed my bra with rocks and other heavy objects to boost my chances of winning. yes it’s cheating but who cares

Stephanie

Amanda this is awful! I'm so sorry that they're being terrible humans.

Georgette

I didn't dig into it, but it's rare to have a sole-authored paper with this level of data analysis (I'm smelling p-hacking here, but, as I said, I didn't dig into it too deeply). He's a sociologist, not a nutrition science expert, and I think he did, indeed, find exactly what he wanted to find. (I'm a person who does systematic reviews and meta-analysis for a living, I'm afraid if I dig into his paper, I will need treatment for hypertension).

Candi Risk

Just want to respectfully say that biofeedback is not always quack shit- it can be useful in the treatment of PNES (psychogenic non epileptic seizures), anxiety disorders, and PTSD!

Sprout Chinn

I remember when a lot of this caught wind. I was lucky in that I was on my husband’s plan, and as long as we got our annual physical, we were good. Sure his work place did dumb stuff like weight loss contests, but those were optional and widely viewed as a joke. He changed jobs last year, and his new company is wayyy more hardcore. Some of the aspects are good. Like free PT through an app for help of pain reduction and all that. I joined this, and I loved it at first. Then I became pregnant. Pregnancy is different for everyone so I informed the PT via text that I’m pregnant with no movement restrictions. They had a program for pregnant people that helps with how the body changes plus getting things ready for labor in the hips. I was thrilled. It wasn’t long before I felt tired and sick. Like barely able to work tired and sick. It has been brutal. I still maintained the minimum with the PT app. You’d think my PT would be thrilled. He wasn’t. I would get annoying messages about how I should be exercising more and putting more effort. I let him have it. I asked him to stop texting me. His texts were not encouraging. I wasn’t feeling well, and I assumed a member of the health care community would understand. He didn’t. He got defensive. It was really awful and demoralizing so I blocked the number. I left feedback on the incident hoping it would help them improve. I’m now getting articles on weight loss. I’m pregnant and I’m being taunted by articles from my PT on weight loss.

Amanda Webster

I just wanted to share that, yeah it's crazy how humans love when number go up. I am using Pikmin Bloom to encourage myself to go outside more for my mental and physical health, and aside from picking up cute critters (which is a big part of why I love this app) I love seeing how many steps I've done :') Makes me feel better when I haven't done much in the day but I can be like "at least i walked a 1000 steps!". And I know I've had a busy day when I'm above 3000 xD

Jaffre

Turns out workplace wellness programs don't work for physicians, either! http://bit.ly/3mvmbCf

Nina Baltierra

So this guy literally almost died, and his teammate thought an appropriate response would be mean-spirited signs making fun of his eating habits and ethnicity?? What the absolute fuck?? Also the thought of discussing any of my non-work-related goals with my boss is... deeply weird

Christine McManus

I know I am very late to this episode but I would very much welcome Aubrey's talk on Ursula the Sea Witch: Anti-Hero We Need.

Amanda M Jantzi

I work at a health care-adjacent company. A few years back, one of our longtime staff members, a man probably in his late 60s at the time, had a heart attack. He recovered and came back to work. One of his direct teammates began posting signs all over the building that said "Don't Feed the [Man's Name]!" Even worse, this man happened to be Irish, and the signs featured an image of a leprechaun with the staff member's face superimposed on it. Additionally, one of the founding tenets of this company is a focus on the achievement of "personal, professional, and financial goals," which requires you to regularly discuss said goals with your supervisor and document them in a company-wide system to track your progress, noting specific milestones and measurements for achieving them.

Morgan Stone

Try Ragen Chastain 😊

Anna Tarkoff

On a more petty note, his being "suspicious of" current findings on bmi sounds a whole lot like "common sense'll tell ya" and implies he went looking for evidence to confirm his "suspicions."

Julia

I have 3 thoughts. 1. Author did a meta study of other research. He did not personally study 18,000 people. In other words, he re-crunched data, but ran no study to test his hypothesis. 2. "Population Studies" published his meta study, not a medical journal. 3. He is a social demographer, not a medical researcher.

Julia

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed I just saw this article getting shared around reddit... I am very interested in what y'all find when you look into the methodology of this study. Especially the claim that being underweight is not actually dangerous.... it all seems really tailored to proving what people already want to hear? any thoughts?

Ruby

I also have a question for the community relating to resource-finding. I am an attorney in Orange County, California and I have a case where a 5-year-old girl is having her weight monitored by her mother in a way that seems really problematic to me and to my client. I am hoping to connect with someone who I (meaning my client) can hire as an expert. This is such a complete shot in the dark but other than calling therapists/nutritionists/whoever at random I don't know where else to start. Thanks!

Rick Faulkner

This sounds more like an Ask A Manager question, but let me ask you (gently!) Why do you think it's related to weight vs anything else? How does weight, as a theoretical origin story for the odor change any BO related advice you would give any other sized person? I imagine that the advice you're imagining is not "get smaller so you don't stank" If the person is non-binary and not transitioning in a way such that hormonal changes are not suspected, how does that change any other BO related advice you'd give a cis person? tl;dr, address hygiene the way you would with any other employee: with tact and genuine compassion. >I am a cis fat middle aged white lady who hopes she doesn't smell<

Candi Risk

Looking for some advice from the community... I have a wonderful employee who's been on my team for about 9 months. They're in an in-person customer facing role in the tourism industry and frequently in close proximity to other staff and clients. This individual has an unpleasant body odor that I think may be related to their weight. I want to address the odor issue in a way that will be helpful and not traumatizing. Suggestions? Some other details that may be pertinent: > Employee is a young adult > Workplace is LGBTQ friendly and employee is non-gender conforming and considers me an ally (has opened up to me / asked for help connecting with resources) > I successfully addressed body odor with an employee in the past with someone who was transitioning and just hadn't adjusted his products to match new hormone levels / grooming habits so it was as easy as, "Hey bud, might be time to shop in the men's aisle for deodorant" > I am a cis female in a small body

Emily

This podcast is sustaining me in year 3 of isolation. Thank you SO MUCH!

BinsQ

Uh oh, sounds like you also work in academia. Dean egos are the worst

Y

they have helped me so much. now when i call something out, I feel like there's a really smart crew behind me going "what SHE said"

Julia

Heart response, but not for your employer

Julia

Oh also the only workplace that I’ve been in that has some sort of contest was led by the dean, who also told me she made her GRADE SCHOOL AGE daughters go on a diet after spending their summers with their grandparents in Georgia because they “ate too much southern food”.

Lauren

A colleague/customer of mine was once told in our workplace hallway “you’re the reason our health insurance costs are going up” presumably about her weight. It’s a big company so she didn’t even know who this other employee was. SO many people buy into the cost reduction shit. WE DO RESEARCH FOR CMS. I doubt that guy was a part of that center but still holy hell.

Lauren

At the Fitbit part, and laughing. One of my parents got me a Fitbit so I could track my sleep (don't get me started on how useless sleep tracking is for a chronically ill person who has done sleep studies and sees sleep specialists and gotten no helpful info, or even for ANYONE), but I immediately discovered that since I juggle I could make it count throws 🤹‍♀️ (or just steeply increase steps randomly depending on the pattern). I then took it off and let it gather dust on my nightstand.

evas

This was a great episode. Holy shit, though; the kind of stuff folks have had to put up with is outrageous. Sadly, it's not unfamiliar in terms of how young people are being taught to engage with the workplace.I'm a secondary (high) school teacher in London and

Ms Lucy L Walling

Did you all see the wonderful letters to the editor in the NYT re the AAP recommendations article? Including one from a 55 year old man who has been struggling with an eating disorder his whole life... So moving. And such crap from the two doctors' editorials. I found myself yelling "CITATIONS PLEASE!!!"

Jennie Vex

Aubrey had laryngitis for awhile I think?

Jennifer Todd

Hello, has the podcast gone on hiatus or something? nothing since Jan 17, nearly a month.

Julia

N

Lottie Cashin

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/06/what-is-a-woman-is-a-feature-length-exploration-of-conservative-ignorance-and-prejudice

Meh

Hey, I know its outside the scope of the show but I'm seeing friends sharing the documentary "What is a woman" which at a glance is full of misinformation about the queer community and is even goi for the schoolchildren identifying as cats panic which I know you've touched on before. Would love to see this debunked ❤️

Abigail Griffin

Can you link?

Jennifer Todd

Hi. I am a subscriber. I can watch bonus episodes on Patreon, but Apple wants to charge me for what it calls MP After Dark. Love the show, but this is attempting to charge subscribers twice. What’s up with Apple? Thanks.

Maria Hess

Can’t wait to see what y’all have to say in response to the vox article today!!

Eliza Guion

Bodies as God's temple idea... i have no idea where that originated. Many, many food ideas were religiously based.

Meh

Lol this might be more a book than a podcast episode, but I’m craving an entry point into tracing wellness culture back to Puritanism. I have no clue what that entry point would be, but I have faith you two could find one.

Guinevere Sims

THIS! I have had people buy me cookbooks and diet books claiming it would cure my rheumatoid arthritis that I've had since I was 15 years old. GTFO with that!

Cari Elliott

Wowwwwwwww 😬😬😬 this sounds like a Terry Gilliam movie

Caitlin Krause

Have you considered doing an episode on anti inflammatory diets? I was diagnosed with arthritis and now everyone (aside from my actual rheumatologist at least) pushes me on it.

April

I hate that this happened to you! My last job--which I loved, I just hated the people--got a narrative going that I was somehow crazy, which...made me a little crazy.

WOOD, MORGAN

The "bad mood" one essentially happened to me- I was told at my final evaluation at a job where my temp contract ended and didn't get renewed (so this may have influenced them not keeping me) that quote "multiple" people had reported to my boss that I had (again, direct quotes) "negative energy" and talking to me "felt like walking on eggshells" because I "seemed like (I) might break down into tears at any moment". I had never cried in front of anyone at the office, but I WAS severely depressed and crying daily in the single stall gender neutral bathroom, which none of them could have known. No one EVER said anything to me about this or even asked if I was okay until this meeting. The worst part is that I loved that job and my crying was completely unrelated, but that meeting instantly ruined that company (previously my dream job, also, the company behind a product I love and still loved while working there) for me forever

Adrien Krupenkin

The over individualisation of stress and stress response has been very effective at removing any accountability managers have for dysfunctional systems. Unfortunately, a couple of hospitals in Australia have lost their training accreditation because they literally do not have enough senior staff to supervise them.. This didn't happen overnight, it was a slow burn.

Meh

I loved this episode. Also, I think it was an episode where the reality that Mike is not a fat person was made glaringly clear in his tone of approach - since as a fat person hearing these stories it feels genuinely frightening, because we can imagine ourselves in these scenarios, and they are not simply amusing or interesting (though they can be that too) they are also truly dire. Just naming this in case any other fats felt it too and just wanted corroboration :) (Obligatory - love the show! this is not a criticism! this is an observation! rejoinder.)

Bethany

when I was a new nurse, my manager saw me upset after a difficult interaction with a patient. my manager advised me to practice better self-care. she told me to get more exercise and try meditating... and then I suppose I would magically be able to be a super-nurse, calm in the face of any challenges I encountered at work? I have repeatedly encountered this in healthcare. instead of acknowledging inadequate staffing, or helping to come up with ways to cope with objectively difficult situations, the onus is put on nurses to do things in their off-hours that will help them manage their own stess, so if you are stessed at work, it's your own fault.

Zena

Regarding the worst email ever, can I also point out that this includes a walk in the middle of the day in Queensland in late spring/summer. You can get sunburnt in minutes. Plus it can be terribly hot. I doubt that the villain boss is walking outdoors at midday.

Mel Ferroza

Regarding the worst email ever, can I also point out that this includes a walk in the middle of the day in Queensland in late spring/summer. You can get sunburnt in minutes. Plus it can be terribly hot. I doubt that the villain boss is walking outdoors at midday.

Mel Ferroza

This reminds me of a Biggest Loser Challenge my friend’s work put on. He just ate slim jims and gave up carbs. he won. So healthy…

Sam Erickson

I saw that Aubrey lost her voice and that is why they are behind :(

Hannah Liberty

Hi!!! I’m a bit behind - have Mike or Aubrey mentioned when they’ll be back to their regular every other Tuesday posting? Thanks

Ally

I have a feeling they get TONS of messages. I sent an email and didn’t hear back and I don’t take it at all personally, but I have the sense they do read them!

Liz Winston

This sounds like UnitedHealthcare. The amount of money they spend on marketing and incentive programs is insane ...and then my employer piggybacks on all of the (half-baked, hard to understand and use) programs like we're the problem if we're sick -- because there's so many incentive programs how could we ever be sick? I'd rather have my insurance company pay for actual care than give me a discount on a Peloton and have several different disjointed programs - that I have to sign up for, download an app, track everyday, etc. Ironically the programs often have points systems that are about as straight-forward as the insurance plans. I would prefer a solid insurance plan that pays for care I actually need that has less "amenities." It's like apartment hunting and the units leave a lot to be desired, but "Hey! There's a pool!" Just me?

Lindsay

Does Mike or Aubrey check the private messages? I've sent two in the past and want to make sure they're not being overlooked. Thanks!

Megan Stafford

Thank you for sharing!

Melody

Listen to the episode for a fun surprise!

Kay Strain

I work in HR and ran a wellness programme during lockdown, to encourage team building and movement. Each team would log their activity (anything counted eg walking, housework) and we had a weekly leader board for which team did the most. It was completely voluntary. Lots of people got really into it. But... am I the arsehole?!

watsonemma89

I'm just here to say that it would be so great to have a Maintenance Phase discord...it's not uncommon for me to experience something, read something, or be writing about something where it would be so great to have a community to go to and crowdsource information, support, or even just scream into the void with (I'm in an ADHD discord that literally has a scream into the void channel...).

LaKay Cornell

I don't think anyone can give you more information than your doctors. Have you tried asking them to provide you with studies? This is the most recent summary I have found. I don't have paid access but you can look at their references and go from there. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/outcomes-of-bariatric-surgery I think you've got to keep in mind people have procedures or take medications for a range of health issues that you may or may not have.

Meh

Thanks! And another doctor recommended bariatric surgery which she says a has improved recently to be less gruesome. Any thoughts on that for here or show?

Paula kamen

There are just too many topics to cover. I can’t even believe that this has happened. It’s appalling!!

Heather Ransom

The drug hasn't been around long enough to know long-term side effects. Given the history of weight loss drugs, I would be cautious.

Meh

I was recommended Wegovy or Ozempic by a weight loss specialist. I see Sixty Minutes covered these drugs positively 2 weeks ago. I need the Maintenance Phase bullshit test. Of course a negative is that people with diabetes are lacking drug. But also interested in health critique.

Paula kamen

it's ridiculous. it reminds me of the "be less visibly gay/Asian...whatever different thing"... honestly, if they're going to talk about destigmatizing, they should actually refer to the numerous people who have studied it.

Meh

the author makes the point that is sounding in my head: why the solution to anti fat bias (bullying FFS) to make the child thin and less of a target. how in the fuck does it become my job to be less triggering to bullies????

Julia

this is a good opinion piece on the new guidelines. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/26/opinion/aap-obesity-guidelines-bmi-wegovy-ozempic.html?searchResultPosition=3

Julia

^^ yes I came here to post about this article, too! https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/health/obesity-children-guidelines.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur absolutely INSANE please do an episode on this

Veronica Fyer-Morrel

I know you’re probably already doing this but please rip the new AAP guidelines on treating childhood obesity so many new orifices all it’s shit just seeps out all the time.

Mirandorkus

I loved the people who had teamed up to trash the programme because it relied on BMI. I would love to know more about how many people refuse to take part in these things.

AliceMerray

"I wasn't prepared for an acrostic, Mike!"

Brooke Densmore Williams

And bariatric surgery offered at 13! The wegovy money must be rolling in now that children are approved... Ugh. I'm worried no long term testing has been done on these meds or these interventions. Some of the behavioral interventions also feel very same old same old -which is like if this didn't work before why are we doing it harder on younger kids?

Betti Steam

I heard it this morning too, and could not believe they're talking about checking 2 year olds for obesity and giving drugs to young people! And this was after they admitted that so much can be attributed to genetics and that "obese" people are often quite healthy.

Julie D Alexander

Follow up ~ The Daily (I know, ugh!) just put out an episode on this & the last couple minutes of their interview with “a medical reporter for the NYT” is…wow. She starts off saying some people with obesity don’t have health issues. But “the reality is there’s widespread discrimination against people with obesity.” So she’s agreeing that instead of teaching people to not suck that children need these drugs/surgeries to prevent them from being bullied??? I’m floored.

Macey Lucas

Hello 👋🏼 I would love to hear your thoughts on the new American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations for children. “Counseling, drug treatment and even surgery should be considered, the group says.” Whattttttt is going on??

Macey Lucas

Right? I wanted the actual answer to this one! Next bonus episode?

Loyal

I would LOVE IT if my workplace paid for my Peloton membership! Instead we get money for BMI 25 or below. My BMI is 25.1 so I get emails pestering me to join WW and a bunch of bullshit about resilience.

TenaciousB

😱😱😱🫠

Cassandra White

True story: once in an off-leash dog park, I ended up in a conversation with some guy who unprompted started complaining about "freeloaders" and how people always want something for nothing and how everyone on disability is a scammer. When I asked about why was his dog wearing a fitbit, he without a moment's hesitation told me that he was trying to win a pedometer competition at work.

Ekaterina Sedia

The nephew shaking his arm cracked me up so much, because I have had my watch think I am working out when I'm crocheting or knitting. Also one time when I was typing a particularly impassioned rant about anti-fatness, lol.

Liza

Ok, I just have to share that low investment thing my workplace did that wasn't miserable. I work at a non-profit that used to have less than 25 employees. We work in a field with high burn out, and we try a lot of things to encourage work/life balance. One year, our boss got the board to buy us all state park passes for the year. Now, I already had one for my family that bought myself already, so I got no benefit, but it's so non-invasive, that I feel like bragging about the try.

Rebecca Bullock Godwin

First off... SQUEE that you retweeted my Shark Thumbs image I drew. I wish I could post it here. Secondly, my ex common-law hated that his workplace wellness program for employees and family was giving ME prizes for walking around the small town we lived in, when he couldn't get it for all the steps he did doing his job. He was livid, especially since I was not loosing weight. First off, I was pregnant when I got put on his medical cause common-law where I lived was a valid as a "real" marriage, second, he would grab my weight from any time I weighed myself, did the BMI math and then use that as a hammer on my head. He was mad that I wasn't loosing weight when I was pregnant, and even more so when I was not pregnant but breastfeeding. My weight stayed the same for over a decade. Yah, it was obese then, but it wasn't as bad as it is now. He was furious because I had nothing really to show for it (walk 20 minutes - I did that for grocery store trips daily) and he was running around as a meter reader and doing all this exercise and was downright 120lbs soaking wet in his bad weather winter gear. The program was designed so that if you took steps when working, it didn't count. If it had counted, he would have gotten all this gear as incentives. I had gloves, a passport/money wallet, and a higher end briefcase style sling bag that I used for interviews for years. I think he was jealous, which is why he used the BMI to abuse me. The one thing that really drives me nuts is how frustrating it is for someone(me) who has medical needs that weight loss is a must, but the very medicine keeping them alive has side effects like weight gain and diabetic effects such as hyperglycemia? I can't win for loosing!

yolanda goodwin

Ugh is it just me or does Mike miss the point way too often? Once again in this episode he responds to someone being told to lose weight by saying "people can't lose weight" rather than pushing back against the idea that people should lose weight! This is when responding to a person saying she ate healthily and exercised a lot - who cares what size she is?! (Not that he should care if she eats just chips either!)

Joey Pickle

https://www.self.com/story/fat-activist-fatphobia I say this with love, but Michael! ya girl wrote a whole good damn bit about the term 'fatphobia' and you use it consistently.

it is dana

Thanks yall!

Brandy Barth

Old employer of mine had a program where you got health points from things like going to the gym, having an acceptable BMI, or completing an annual physical. With enough health points you'd get bonus money in your HSA. Things like "annual wellness screenings" were worth a lot of points. I'm a trans guy, and back when I had a cervix I tried to submit a receipt of my annual pap exam for points. But the system wouldn't accept that a male could have had a pap exam, so while the event was uploaded it came with zero points. I had to call the company managing our wellness app, and my HR department, several times until eventually I got an email saying they'd "solved" it. Logged in to find they'd given me points for a prostate exam. (I do not have a prostate)

capydat

Do the blue zones diet!

Alexis Richards

A previous job at a nursing home ran a "health" screening for an insurance discount circa 2010. I took it because hey, why not if I get $100 back in my pocket. I was a generally healthy 20 year old at the time. Thinking back now it seems absolutely unhinged that they had peri- and post- menopausal nurses and cna's, who are on their feet doing back breaking manual labor the majority of the day and may or may not get chance to eat during an entire shift, using their 20min break to go for a walk... because the criteria stated that they were too obese for the max discount. One nurse couldn't participate because she had fucking CANCER and was undergoing CHEMO while trying to maintain 40hrs a week for the health insurance. Absurd.

Sarah Algazi

Intuitive eating sounds like what eating would be like if we were never told the various myths about food and eating

Meh

💗!!! I feel this! Our intuition that the vibes are bad is real!!!

Madeleine Jubilee Saito

I just learned about "intuitive eating" and my therapist is actually a fan. Some of the principles are things you guys yell about. Some are things you *don't* yell about. What do The Royal We think of that one?

Rachelle Stallard

I just remembered that there is an Ursula musical (unofficial, obviously) called Unfortunate: The Untold Story of Ursula the Sea Witch. I haven’t seen it but I’ve heard it’s really good!

Nicola

In all seriousness, can we please get an Ursula: The Anti-Hero We Need episode

Angela Rose

Here's me listening to this episode at my desk as I open a "Benefits" email that starts with: "The new year is a perfect time for a fresh start on your overall wellbeing. [Our] benefit plans and programs offer easy ways to start on your goals — and mostly at no cost to you! Whether you want to join a gym, talk to someone about anxiety, or get your finances in order, [our] vendor partners offer something for everyone." And the email highlights a webinar about the free Weight Watchers program that's an employee benefit.

Cora Bennett

That’s horrendous. I’m so sorry she did that to you 😞

Nicola

I wish I had reached out, but I guess it wasn't actually "wellness-wellness". But my old boss was such a terrorist that I developed an eating disorder--actual, diagnosed anorexia. It was important that I eat when I felt like I could, and I was terrified to eat in front of others. Got a doctor's note that said I should be able to shut my door to eat at the office or be able to take lunch out of the office when needed. She wouldn't let me shut my door, and would only allow me to eat between 12 and 1 (when I usually had to work). Then she had monthly lunch meetings and would stare at me and make comments about how I wasn't eating, and thus not a "team player". After meetings she'd pull me into her office and let me know that I made everyone really uncomfortable by not eating and wanted to know what I was "trying to prove". All of that on top of the stress and mental disturbance of the actual eating disorder. I spent 6 months there where I sobbed every single day until she finally fired me for all of that, which ironically probably saved my life, because the disordered eating pretty much ended right there.

WOOD, MORGAN

It seems to be a similar thing in public libraries - so minimally staffed normally and so understaffed in the last few years. And so much of helping staff to deal with this stress is promotion of "self care." Like whole seminars on how to get staff to take care of themselves ('cause we're so lazy about that, you know. 🙄) But staff have dealt with their stress. By quitting their VERY underpaid library jobs.

Renee MeowMeow Beans

In terms of NHS, or just hospitals generally. There's a ridiculous idea that hospital meals should be demonstrative to patients. If you're in hospital for more than a few days, you're quite sick and it's far more important for you to eat than to ignore food you don't want or like. Seriously, no one goes, "Remember that great food I had in hospital." Even if it was great food, it would still be perceived as bad because you generally feel terrible. I have no idea what genius though associating "healthy" food with being hospitalised was a good idea.

Meh

The “no cakes in the office” shtick has come right from the top in the UK this week - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384.amp Also, the Florida teacher’s story reminded me of some “emotional resilience” training that NHS workers have had to undertake, despite the healthcare system in the UK currently being on its knees due to understaffing and chronic underfunding 🤦🏼‍♀️

Nicola

My company (giant west coast healthcare organization that I refer to as the Walmart of healthcare) used to give us $700 free towards a high deductible health plan but for the last 5 years they’ve made us waste hours to get 40,000 points a year on a stupid app called Virgin Pulse. I hate that it’s a waste of my time but I do get more creative every year in lying to get my points. But these stories have def shined a light on how terrible other corporate wellness programs can be.

LBF

I love the podcast so much, but hated the content in this episode. Tried to listen all the way thru but its just too upsetting.

Melissa

That is a truly shitty experience, but good on you for figuring it out now. It will save you so much trouble later on!

Laura Sanders

On Mike's former podcast, You're Wrong About, he and Sarah Marshall had an episode with quite a bit about repressed memories. Really helpful to me because I used to know people who talked a lot about repressed memories. https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vWQkb2OntNqdPEWciPnE6?si=waH8liNFRpSWCUrBW7NO_Q&utm_source=copy-link

Lynne Baab

I get really squirmy about the 4 day work as a solution because I'm not salaried. I need 40 hours a week and even that doesn't cover my living expenses. But then I remember I work second shift, every single Saturday, and most holidays and I remember that kind of stuff only applies to HR, administration, etc. (I also work for a non profit.) I need decent health insurance and a living wage, then we can talk about a shorter work week. (I'm not criticizing anyone who benefits from a 4 day work week, just to be clear.)

Amy Shine

The gamification of fitness wearables! I have type 1 diabetes and wear a continuous glucose monitor, it’s been a literal life saver for me but it can also lead to periods of hyper fixation, checking it every five minutes etc. let’s not get me started on tech bros and marketing CGMs as a tool of body hacking!!!

Sara Lewis

“live every week like it’s your last” babes if I have one week to live I’m def not going implementing a time consuming workout and diet routine??? I have things to do and people to see

Rachael

Haha the kid with the Apple watch! When I had a FitBit, it once gave me like 20 steps for French braiding my hair. 🤣

Karen C

I am a lady who used to work in the hazmat industry, I have worked with a lot of contractors in similar businesses, railroad workers, refineries, and the like. There are plenty of varying fat sizes in this field and they all are extraordinarily capable of doing their extremely physical job. They all have appropriate and sized PPE. Fuck that supervisor. I am so sorry that you had to endure that judgment.

Covo

moth

The parts about the Korean spa and the forced oversharing/trauma bonding made me cringe and laugh out loud at the same time. A decade back I was a teacher at an international school in South Korea. There were some cross-cultural tensions between the local and foreign students, compounded by a Korean cultural taboo against publicly speaking about family secrets and and past events considered to be shameful. In our infinite wisdom as supposedly more "enlightened" Westerners, we decided that the best way to deal with this was to do one of those "Cross the line" activities where you all line up and have to take a step forward or backward depending on what struggles you face. It was completely culturally inappropriate and forced students into a position where they felt like they had to share facts about their lives that could have legitimate social consequences both for themselves and their families. We then put them into small groups where the teachers were encouraged to trauma bond with the students by sharing the most horrible experiences of their lives. Again, totally culturally inappropriate. The students were HUGELY uncomfortable with this and so was I, but I went along with it because I didn't feel like I could say no. To this day, I cringe every time I think about that experience, and I still feel guilty for making my students do it. (No coincidence that this was an evangelical Christian school whose idea of "work/life balance" was to exist in a state of chronic burnout for the glory of God. Our principal once came in at 1AM to work and found the Spanish teacher there working too. He congratulated her at a staff meeting and held her up as an example for all of us to follow. ONE O'CLOCK IN THE FREAKING MORNING.) But as for the Korean spa, coworkers and I often went and hung out naked together. It was truly awesome. No experience has done more for my journey in body acceptance than a communal bathing experience where shame didn't enter into it and nudity wasn't inherently sexualized.

Laura Sanders

Oohhh so glad I have somewhere to say this as no one at work seemed to think this was an issue. I'm an archaeologist and field work is really physical. Think victorian prison work. A lot of this work is on construction sites so we have to wear hi vis and safety boots etc. We get issued this by the company by law. PPE sizing is dreadful. However is usually OK for men, regardless of their size. I'm a small fat lady and I really struggled getting my company to provide safety wellies that fit my calves. I was complaining about this with a group of colleagues, including a site supervisor. This supervisor said that is was in the contract that we had to be able to work in all conditions and be able to keep up with the expected work load, basically suggesting that ppe isn't carried in bigger sizes because fat people can't manage the physical demands of the job. No one else seemed to see the issues with this! I am also often, if not always, the only fat person on site in a crew of 15+. And I am small fat so there must be some hiring bias going somewhere.

Alice

In your opinion, why would the programs be worse if they were effective? Harder to dislodge?

Dana Contini

This is really wholesome!!

Amanda Fallon

My office is organized with a large open area surrounded by smaller individual offices. The middle of the open area, initially dubbed the cul de sac, has a bar height table. The idea when we designed the space was that we’d use that table for like, quick meetings or just a change of scenery. Instead that table became the place people would put treats and goodies they brought in to share. This evolved into the area being rebranded as the “cul de snack” complete with professionally printed signage. We all take turns keeping it stocked with a super variety of foods: poptarts, chips, dunkaroos, beef jerky, granola bars, plenty of Little Debbie items…anything goes! Just wanted to share a story about my food positive workplace!

Kirsten Lamiette

These bullshit step-counting initiatives aren't even limited to workplaces - my elderly grandparents' health insurance offered some kind of dystopian "discount" if you reached a certain number of steps. For a while my grandparents would stand up in the middle of meals or while watching TV and march in place because it was "time to get their steps in!" They were never sedentary people in the first place. Depressingly enough, they only stopped when my grandfather's cancer-surgery wound in his leg caused enough problems that he now struggles to walk at all. They are privileged enough to have the money to have not actually needed the insurance discount (they participated anyway because of a deeply engrained sense of frugality), but how fucked up is it that for someone financially struggling, the time they would need the discount the most is also when they would be physically disqualified from getting it?? And obviously that's only one facet of the ways in which this shit sucks.

Annabel B

I never participate in this stuff at work. When I started they were doing one of those Fitbit step challenges and gave us all one. I was very quickly told by several new coworkers that the thing to do is toss it in the dryer on low and just tumble your way to whatever garbage prize they were offering at the time. Though I don’t appreciate the program, I did appreciate that so many people were scamming the scammers.

RubbleMuss

The part about how problematic it is when bosses refuse to acknowledge the power imbalance was really validating. I've had to work for people like that in the past.

Auras

Aubrey’s reaction to these are top notch this episode.

Becky Sefcovic

My “favorite” was early on in the pandemic in healthcare where they cut our hours (and wages of course) significantly but told us to practice an “attitude of gratitude”. Hideous behavior

Rachel Coy

My first job out of college had the workplace trauma bonding exercises and full days of activities dedicated to “getting vulnerable.” Inevitably resulting in oversharing and more shame. Gross. Thanks for sharing. I still have a lot of shame wrapped up in that time period and that my self worth was so tied to a stupid job. I wish this wasn’t a thing that happens in multiple industries but it takes some of the weight off.

Elyse

Holy fuck

Crystal T

Have you guys ever considered doing some kind of collab with Allison at Ask a Manager or having her on as a guest? She's no fan of this nonsense either and has been writing about it from since the beginning of the pandemic.

Siobhan Roberts

I wanna fight everyone of these employers at 2AM in a Denny's parking lot.

De Roche

So true!!! Took me awhile to figure that out 😂

Jenn

Aubrey's proposed ep on punching bag reviews and Ursula the Sea Witch promotion sounds perfect, yes please!

Ginny

Did anyone else hear weird robotic buzzing about halfway through only while they were speaking?

Jude

Aubrey, I am with you on the punching bag front.

Darby St Lawrence

Also by the way, step counters don’t work if you’re pushing a pram. 🙃

Alyssa Heath

Not y'all's professional, educated bosses sounding like Bobby, the manager at the gentlemen's club where I worked when I was 19. 🥺🤬🤢

Amanda C.

The last story Aubrey tells at 45min, hit home so hard I almost cried. I haven't experienced any recent workplace wellness, but my boss "doesn't see himself as a boss," and it has been affecting me in so many ways that I haven't been able to pinpoint. I expressed my anxiety and some vague trauma in what I thought was a safe place, and it hasn't been the same since.

Dyan

I agree, plus he's very big on low carb diets/demonising sugar and carbs which...are still diets?

Sebastian Constable

BBC News - Keep cake away from office, suggests food watchdog head https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384 Ironic that this was just released on BBC News 🤦

Emma Pedlar

The teacher one is so real. My district has "Wellness Wednesday" yoga sessions. They're from 12-1 while all teaching staff is TEACHING, so they're just for central office. They still email us a reminder every week.

Tally

My partner had a dietician visit him and his colleagues at work today. This woman apparently just kept emphasising how important it is to calorie count and that you should be counting everything you eat. At one point she listed like 5 different foods and asked people to pick the healthiest option, and said that the service station (gas station) pie was the best option just because it was lowest cal 🥴 Good job we've been listening to Maintenance Phase for a while so he could spot this nonsense!

Kate M

😳😳😳😳

Karen Dawson

I was once told by a friend at a work sponsored happy hour that my weight loss was a topic of discussion at some weekly leadership meetings. they discussed if it was appropriate to talk to me about it, but they didn't consult me, at all.

Lexi

This episode's content is SO👏FUCKING👏APPALLING. You two, I hope you had some chill time after this, some self care. The RAGE.

cr0nes

I know Michael will look this up for me. It is unrelated to the topic of this podcast. Michael, how widespread was the belief in repressed memories in the actual psychological scientific community in the 80’s/90’s?

Guinevere Sims

love you both so much (parasocially). my first thought after most episodes is “wow I needed that so much”. Thank you for making this your jobs.

Dana Anderson

The fact that someone in a wheelchair couldn't put a Fitbit on their support dog to participate in their own way made my heart break. That workplace has lost its way.

Amanda

Love this!

K C

I couldn’t even get my best friends to come with me to a Korean spa (which is amazing btw) forget coworkers!

Nina P

Or Cruella, since she works in the fashion industry.

K C

After 20+ years dealing with some pretty atrocious “workplace wellness” initiatives in corporate America (looking at you, financial services industry), I am so grateful to be working at a nonprofit with a 4-day work week, a monthly personal well-being stipend to spend as we wish for anything that makes us feel good, extremely generous PTO (with a requirement to take a *minimum* of 3 weeks off every year), and that supports our staff union. Restoring some balance to so-called “work life balance” has done wonders for my mental and physical health. In addition to our organization’s main mission, we are supporting other nonprofits in improving their workplaces. I encourage everyone to consider unionizing their workplaces to demand better working conditions and benefits. ✊

Sherri Jackson

Just going to Home Depot to buy things is the most exercise I get in a month these days. I’ve actually been sore after one particularly long shopping list.

CLC

My friend was just saying the other day that rocking in a rocking chair will register as steps.

CLC

Well enjoy it while you can—ours used to be self reported like that but it has gotten more and more onerous over time. I don’t do it anymore because I disagree with it so much in principle.

CLC

We get insurance from my husbands work, the best part of their wellness = $ program is that you can earn most of it by doing “habit challenges” which are self reported. Things like “did you go for a walk today” or “did you swap a soda for a water today”. The rest can be earned by things like getting a flu vaccine, routine checkup, playing a webinar etc

Alyssa

That first email, holy shit. I would have gone straight to a labor lawyer.

Jamie Fritz

I worked for a tech company (Pluralsight) and their wellness program just involved giving us a $50 rebate every month for any fitness classes or meditation type things we paid for, like the Headspace app. It was pretty nice!

Zelph On The Shelf

Aubrey writes about this in her new book!!! And it’s really good!

Madeleine Jubilee Saito

Like this comment to gently encourage Mike to go get a yogurt from the fridge.

Madeleine Jubilee Saito

I hear the jokes about handing over a cup of piss and immediately flashed back to my first nursing home job, where I had my interview with the director then he walked me to the employee restroom and stood outside the door while I peed into a cup. Then he went and tested it in a hallway while I awkwardly stood and watched. Future coworkers walked by and chatted with him while he made jokes about “don’t mind me, just standing here with this cup of piss” and it was so incredibly humiliating. I did not last at that place for long, that guy was not only terrible but also SO incompetent

Ginger Baumgartner

All the competitions being mentioned where the executives always won reminded me of this weird competition thing they did in my high school English class. The teacher would do some sort of fitness competition against some of the male students and then they would bet on it essentially. The time I remember, the male students had to dress up in women's clothing for a day if they lost? So there was a lot of transphobia baked into that too. Of course the teacher always won.

Sam Ramsay

I'm glad the "worst ever email" was toploaded at the beginning of the episode, it would have been unbearable otherwise. Regardless, my jaw crashed through the floor and into the basement.

Michael Caveney

Okay, I humbly submit that the Disney villain most likely to write a shitty email about someone needing to lose weight would actually be Mother Gothel from Tangled.

Orpheus Eleven

I nearly had sparking water come out my nose at my work desk at the Jafar/"Evil Twink Energy" line. Too funny!

Lindsey Goss

Carmen Maria Machado wrote the shit out of this essay about Ursula (among others)! https://www.guernicamag.com/the-trash-heap-has-spoken/

Maggie

I listen to rte podcasts from here in seattle just to hear sanity.

Jamie Madden

When I told colleagues in Boston I was moving to Seattle, they all responded, “the fish place?” We’d had to do a toxic positivity training called “Fish” that was based on the Pike Market fish guys enjoying their job. It didn’t land well in my department, thankfully. But I probably should have taken it as a sign of the passive aggression and toxic positivity that awaited me.

Jamie Madden

Thank you for reading the one from the teacher. I'm a teacher. My colleagues and i are SO OVER being told to "self care" more while also being told to do more and more with the same amount of time given. Im gonna share the chain saw analogy at the next staff meeting!! Love that!!

Rebecca R. Nowak

I am so happy that my employer's wellness program is a peloton membership and the occasional sip and paint with the art teacher (it's a school).

Christina McPants

Coworker may have been part of MLM, and, yeah, trust your feeling that it was pointed at your fat self. Such a noble girl boss trying to save you/add you to her down line. Cheesh.

Jeanne H-B

Aargh. That is all. (Take care)

Jeanne H-B

So infuriating. I come from a very flexible gene line, and it was treated as if it was an achievement, all the more amazing in those of us who were fat girls. Now we are achy old ladies being diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos hyper mobility. Oops, our Gumby genetics are a connective tissue disorder. I skipped gym (“I have rehearsal”, “I have to build sets”) so often that I had to make up dozens to graduate. I put on my gym suit and attended seven classes a day until I worked off my sweat debt. A lot of volleyball. (Our overcrowded school was on split sessions, so those seven gym classes were after five academic classes.)

Jeanne H-B

"Tacky and a little bit sinister." I mean, that sums up an awful lot in this space. 😂

Melanie Schlosser

but mike… WHO IS YOUR FAVORITE THE OFFICE CHARACTER? 👀

Judah

You guys should do an episode on DEXA scans…I was thinking about the Hung Up Cleats podcast episode where a 17 year old college gymnast was forced to do weigh Ins and DEXA scans and was chastised because she “had a lot of body fat”. I wonder if this technology is as grifty as it sounds

Sarah East

About toxic positivity...HR had to talk to the branch manager who made everyone read The Secret and discuss it at staff meetings.

Mariana Hülsen

I’m not defending her AT ALL, but I’ve been thing about that *horrible boss* and how she probably thought she was “helping” in her own twisted way. She’s very immature among other adjectives, but there’s more to it that I’m honestly curious to better understand. I’d love if you’ll would do an episode on why people feel so compelled to “help” a fat person lose weight. And I honestly think they are think they are helping, but in a weird superior way (or not?!). Like what’s the psychological piece of needing to do that?

Angela

The discussion on stress in the workplace made me think of the IT Crowd episode “Calamity Jen” where the CEO wages a company-wide war on stress.

Sarah Dunnevant

Thank you so much for this episode -- I cannot believe some of these programs and how awful they are! On a positive note, I chose to start working 80% (M-Th) several years ago (for 80% pay, to be clear), and it was hands-down the best decision of my professional career. In fact, I feel more engaged at work and it helped me say no to any bullshit "extras" that sometimes crop yp.

Sarah Carr

I worked for Whole Foods until they laid me off after the Amazon takeover. I was a store artist/sign maker so was responsible for the entire store looking good (aside from the product itself). Our wellness screening to find out if we qualified for a greater discount was scheduled the same day that some super high up corporate guys were visiting. I had a to-do list a mile long and no help and was sprinting around the store trying to finish everything. I didn’t qualify for the discount because my blood pressure was too high. 🙃

Slampersand

One of my friends' husbands works for a company that offered one of those exercise mirror things as a wellness benefit, but they only paid for the mirror, not the subscription fee for the exercise programs, so unless you wanted to pay out of pocket for a pricey subscription every month, they were essentially offering their employees an overpriced mirror.

Anna O.

I guess the advantage of being a freelancer who works remotely is that I never have to deal with this kind of bullshit. Most of my clients have never even seen a picture of me. My spouse's job has benefits and we live in Canada, so we don't need to worry about getting health insurance covered, at least.

Anna O.

My sister was once in charge of a workplace wellness program whose unofficial slogan was "You're no good to us dead."

Susan M

There’s so much garbage here. But is there room for an honourable mention? My work had a wellness programme that offered free counselling / therapy. Totally confidential, no information exchanged with the company. I took advantage and it was very helpful.

Alyssa Heath

Woah. Not cool.

Caddie Eley

that's so uncomfortable and weird, I'm so sorry that happened :(

gay for mothman

The toxic positivity stuff at the end reminded me of the time an entire department was getting laid off in a conference room a few feet away from my department and while people were hyperventilating and crying wondering if we would get laid off too, our VP bopped around our desks playing country music on her phone and asking why everyone was so down in the dumps. We got laid off a few months later.

Cat Conley

Yesss I would settle IN for an episode extolling her virtues!

Julie Collins

The worst email ever reminded me of an encounter I had with my now former manager. I worked as part of the OR staff in a hospital, and was required to change into hospital scrubs for every shift. One day, as I was changing by my locker, my manager came in and decided to stop and chat with me. Out of the blue she says to me "you should get bariatric surgery. I think you'd really do well with a sleeve. Dr. _____ did mine and I'm so glad I had it done." Because of the locker room layout, I was trapped in a small space, with her blocking the path to the exit. I just froze. She went on to tell me how our insurance pays nearly the entire amount, "so there's no downside." I was finally released when a coworker came in, distracting my manager enough that I was able to scoot out the door.

Caddie Eley

Wise words!

Lisa

This is so crazy to my mind coming from Ireland. Our workplace wellness is a website with remote drs, counsellors and physios...

Karen Dawson

So, not work place related but at the Drs. I suffer from serious depression that meds don't seem to help much with and alcohol misuse. Usually when I go into my Drs office there is a form I fill out that the Dr and I go over, how things are going what's improving what I'm back sliding on. She's great. This last year it was hard to get an appointment with her so I just scheduled one with her PA. Filled out the forms and he discussed the fact that I'd put on 5lbs not that I was suicidal in the last two weeks. Like wtf man? My BMI is upsetting you??

heathermama7

Such a good bonus episode! The mental health mandates at the end are especially dystopian. Aubrey, your take on bosses assigning a shitload of work followed by “awww sweetie, don’t work the weekend!” was so validating. Thank you, sincerely. This was my work life for three years, and it was extremely psychologically destabilizing. I needed cult recovery resources after leaving that job.

Lisa

Workplace wellness is wild… at my work, we get up to $750 from our wellness program, $150 reimbursement if we submit proof of 120 workouts and $50 from our health insurance if we submit proof of working out. On one hand, I like some of the incentives ($50 for preventative care visits, $50 for a flu shot), I’m doing those things anyways so I might as well get money back from them. Our workplace wellness program also includes financial education and mental health resources. Personally, I am ok with these things. But when I signed up, I was immediately given notice about a 3 month weight loss challenge that wanted people to lose 10% of their weight. I’m 5’10 and ~140lbs and according to the BMI indicator being used (obligatory the BMI is trash), I’m a healthy weight. Their weight loss challenge would have put me around 130lbs, which is still considered “healthy” for my height but it’s not a healthy weight for me and our wellness program doesn’t know that or care.

Hayley

Okay but who is your favourite Office character though?!

Heidi Senyszyn

Oo those mental health stories at work remind me of when my boss told me that people notice the way i was walking into work (i was very much doing way too much for salary job at age 25, and stressed and on the verge of crying every day) and she basically said 'straight up and smile more, you're in a position of site leadership'. I wish an actual EAP existed at the time, but im also weirdly happy it didnt, because i might have stayed longer.

Al

You are so right that the steps counting competition is just like PhyEd. When we did the President's Physical Fitness competition in gym class, I would get so irate. Always stiff and inflexible, I started the sit-and-reach at one cm. After 6 weeks, I was up to 10 cm. The athletic kids started at 25 cm and ended at 25 cm. But the athletic kids got an A, and I got an F, even though I had a 900% improvement. I stopped trying in gym.after that, maybe in 4th grade.

Toni Prekker

These "prize" based things are so stupid for so many reasons. Even if we thought workplaces should be doing this stuff, which they shouldn't, there are so many very basic reasons why they do not work. For one thing, behavioural psychologists have known since at least the 1980s that "incentive" models like individual payments, actually substitute intrinsic motivation with extrinsic motivation. They're not additive. Paying people to exercise actually makes them less likely to exercise, unless you're going to keep paying indefinitely.

Meh

on like my first day at my previous job my boss mentioned that they do frequent office wide fitness and eating challenges. At the time I started several people weren’t eating sugar. I stated right off the bat that 1) I don’t run and so wouldn’t do any challenge related to that and 2) I don’t restrict food. No one really pestered me BUT my coworkers talked about it CONSTANTLY with each other and I hated it. Around the time I left that job, one of the coworkers who often joined challenges told me that she’d been on this fuckin insane diet and took a supplement thing (??) to “kick-start” her weight loss. It was a medically supervised diet (by what sounded like a chiropractor or something) and she told me she could get me an appointment and a discount. I’m a small fat and it definitely felt pointed.

gwynne4

As Tressie McMillon Cottom so brilliantly writes, “the institution cannot love you”

Pamela Nolan

I have been thinking about watching that but I'm kind of meh on musicals. You may have just changed my mind about this one!

Shannon O'Rourke

"It's the organization's job to look out for itself and it's your job to look out for yourself" is something I wish someone had said to me early and often in my life. In my twenties and thirties, doing a company I was working for "a favor" (i.e. free labor) as if they were a friend who would do me a favor in return! I was a sweet summer child indeed.

Shannon O'Rourke

What is the email people are sending these to? Did I miss that at some point?

Orion Spencer

Another great episode in the books! An episode on the four day work week would be really interesting

Brianna

OMFG EVIL TWINK JAFAR 😂😭😭😭😭

Chelsea

I have a disability and used the step counter on my phone while working in a book store for a bit (more to see how much more I was walking than anything else). I would put it in my back pocket and quickly realized it was counting any sort of time I shifted/lost my balance as "a step".

Rachel Wilhoyte

For a future episodes I would love to hear y’all’s thoughts on The Whale. Saw it in theaters last week and still have a lot of conflicting feelings and thoughts about it….

Gali Zaborowski

My nonprofit just promoted one of our HR people to a title that includes "and Wellness." Previously, our "wellness program" has consisted of granola bars in the break rooms, an occasional yoga class on site, and those health insurance weight loss program emails. I hate it already.

Melissa Elgersma

weight lifters 🤝 fat people BMI is trash

The Killustrator

For future episodes, I would be so fascinated to hear your views on the diet myth by professor Tim Spector. It really kick started my diet culture skepticism, but he’s also 100% convinced everyone needs to lose weight. So it feels like he’s still peddling something. I also can’t shake off the feeling that the author has some business interests he’s promoting (the Zoe app) and it left me feeling a bit conflicted. Zoe did some really interesting stuff with tech platforms during the Covid pandemic but now they seem to be transitioning into a straightforward wellness platform and keep emailing me about my cholesterol or whatever.

Alyssa Heath

Lol at the home Depot part. I worked at home Depot and I would hit 10,000 steps before lunch. 😂

Katie Rasmussen

I became a people manager for the first time last year, I cannot imagine having any conversations like these with my direct reports. I especially cannot imagine dictating what they eat or how they exercise. This is so far out of a managers/employers purview!

Sarah Brinks

This episode unlocked a memory. When I was 22 the public school district I worked for had a wellness program that was basically just a discount on a gym membership. I joined and went to the initial appointment with a trainer to get started. They did practically a presidential physical fitness test. I was very thin at the time, maybe 130 lbs, and they said I had a BMI that made me technically overweight. I started going to the gym every day before work. The gym had an annual competition that was a charity fundraiser. For the competition, you try to do as many group exercise classes as you can in 24 hours to compete for prizes. This gym was part of the local hospital system. That year, they had a blood shortage and called the school to ask if any employees could come donate, specifically my blood type. I was told I could leave work early if I would donate blood and (wink, wink) that would allow me to get a quicker start on the workout competition. So I donated blood, then went straight to a spin class. Felt a little light headed, ate an avocado, went to yoga, then a floor aerobics class, where I nearly passed out and could not finish. The trainer encouraged me to take a break, eat something, and come back for the weight lifting class in an hour. I’m remembering this at the age of 40 and I just want to hug my poor little tiny 22-year-old self and make her a sandwich. And I want to scream at the school district who constantly promoted this gym saying, “It’s not like other gyms. It’s more about HEALTH than weight loss or getting buff.”

Kristi Brokaw

It always feels immensely validating to hear Mike and Aubrey balk at all the fuckery <3 Thank you for the episode! :)

Suvi Nuoska

Re the kid finding out how to game the pedometer, my workplace wellness story is we were all given these pedometers (not fitbits) and IMMEDIATELY you could start noticing people realizing they just had to shake their arms to get steps counted. Within three days the contest ended with no winner because of the WIDESPREAD cheating. It was hilarious.

Bex

me, in my car, out loud: URSULA WOULD NEVER 😂

cage and aquarium

I pushed back against "maintain don't gain" at my last job, and was told that it was a really popular program and no one had ever complained... hello, fat person complaining here. Yet another way that contract workers weren't valued

Laura Clowder

You have no idea how much I needed this episode today. Thank you guys as always! ❤️

Yami Heart

I WAS NOT PREPARED FOR AN ACROSTIC MIKE! Another fantastic episode, thank you both so much for keeping me laughing during the sh*t show that is January.

Emily Jakes

My employer doesn’t have a formal incentive for movement or healthy eating. They’re more into ~self-care~ which I still roll my eyes at.

Grace

I have never felt so profoundly grateful to be in my seventies and retired!

Sarah Akers

Seriously tho! Stanning ursula the sea witch

s

definitely not! the sizing here is also fucked. i know it is everywhere but I’m literally 4-5 different sizes depending on where i shop.

lexi

Definitely not legal. Completely infuriating. The audacity of some people. Honestly I can believe this happening in a place like Sydney since everyone is very obsessed with their looks here (how often I go to the gym seems to be a very important question men ask me on dates).

LBO

Idk if y'all have watched Spirited movie with Ryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell, but there is a bit at the end mocking workplace wellness that is just 😘👌 He's heaping more and more work onto the elves and they're like we don't have the time to take all this on, and he says oh why don't you come to our wellness seminar later today! 🤣

Kate McDonell

Also thank you Aubrey for shifting it to Jafar, I was like um excuse me don't bring queen Ursula into this 😅

Kate McDonell

I thought maybe Australia was slightly less overtly abusively anti fat, but I guess I was wrong 🙁

Kate McDonell

Like, maybe as a small fat I am not privy to this kind of shit, but I just cannot imagine anyone I have ever worked with doing something like this, it is bananas

Kate McDonell

As an Australian I am even more horrified at that email than you two! How is that legal??! What kind of job could there be where the boss thinks this is at all her business??? I have literally never heard of anything close to this happening in any job I've had in Australia in the past 20 years, what the fuck. 😳😳😳

Kate McDonell