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Bonus: Catching Up with Paleo Pete

Our March bonus episode is a watch club and a "where are they now?" Aubrey's sharing some updates on Pete Evans and walking Mike through "The Magic Pill," the now-infamous documentary that turned Paleo Pete into Keto Kevin. Plus, as a little treat, we're closing with this clip of a daytime talk show cardiologist showdown.

You can play the episode directly through Patreon or use our RSS feed to add it to your podcast app. Here are the instructions from Patreon. As ever, leave a comment here if you've got requests for future bonus episodes.

See you in April!

M&A

Comments

Folks like RFK Jr need to focus on how gluten is literally everywhere. It ticks all the moral panic boxes (gluten is everywhere, in inappropriate settings like yogurt, does actually affect people negatively, no rules about what you can or can't put it in) and they'd (🤞🏼) actually help some people.

fig leaf

I'm super late to this party, but as someone who has done a lot of shopping for Gluten intolerant family members; you'd be shocked how many yoghurt brands use flour as a thickener. It's super annoying, bc there's absolutely no reason for wheat to be in there 😅

Huia Webby

I shouldn’t have listened at the gym - dying laughing mid-overhead press at revujenating is an occupational hazard 😂

Ali Waterhouse

Having an anti-sunscreen stance in AUSTRALIA is wild

Lily Roberts

They do that with oats too, add wheat flour to keep it from caking or something. So if you can't eat gluten you need to find gluten free oats. It's very weird

Heather Hawkes

Apparently grapes are often like polished with stuff that contains gluten (I think it’s usually flour and water?) to make them look shiney so the gluten free grapes thing isn’t as silly as it sounds

James

"I don't think this is made by the smartest people..." says Michael semi-under his breath. ☺️ haha. You two are so sweet.

Anna Wilson

Boop boop

Caitlin Hepburn

We need a revujenating tshirt

Kirstine

I wish I could post a picture here of my horse really truly getting red light therapy. I buckled to extreme woo-woo peer pressure at my barn. It was very expensive, he hated it, and now I can’t afford to get a “sucker” tattoo on my forehead.

KB

My jaw dropped with that ending line about the mullet haha. Mic drop! 🎤

Cynthia Osborn

I do ketamine therapy for my chronic anxiety and depression but all it does is slightly lower my anxiety for like 20 minutes. Watching someone do it sounds like the most boring possible thing

S

"Sweet fancy jesus" is so good

Elinor Hilton

Dunno if you get this a lot but there’s a podcast that has run a 3 year long weekly recurring segment called “it’s been a huge week in Pete Evans”

Guy Incognito

Would it be possible to do an episode on raw milk??

Tamara

Yo, I can safely say I am a better person because of Michael and especially Aubrey’s efforts (not to diminish Michael’s). Thanks to you two and your team for bettering the world, raising awareness, and cutting through the shit.

Dino

I saw that this was a bonus episode and immediately had to join the Patreon. As a fan of MKR who is also Jewish, the Pete Evans two-parter is my #1 comfort podcast episode; I've listened to them at least 6 times at this point.

Eden Ashkenazi

Listened to this and the episode of Behind the Bastards about the Liver King on the same day and...whew! Never been so glad to be a veggie

Jocelyn Palmer

I'm a big fan of both of you, Aubrey & Mike! Coming into the comments here to ask if there is anything this community can do to help us get the word out about https://here4thekids.com/. I know lots of folks here are in social justice and will want to know about this. We are 100% volunteers, led by BIPOC women and staffed by white women to get guns banned in the U.S. Because gun violence is the #1 killer of kids in America, but also because the Second Amendment was born out of white supremacy. That's the real history. We're gathering in Denver on June 5th. Go support the movement now or look for me on IG @FacilitatorOnFire. Thanks everybody in advance!

Kay Coughlin

It seems like she and her marketing guy husband are just doing these short, no info, product placement videos. She actually reached out to the company I work for to get a free product (our products start at about $5K) and I passed because her account to me has no substantive value to it, and is not hitting our core customer base. So, I believe the account is real, slickly produced, with lots of free stuff to plug and use for her. I personally find this 'influencer grift' so gross .

Ingrid Fromm

My sister in law is one of these people! At first I thought it was just her until I heard this episode. Unfortunately, she doesn't even put sunscreen on the kids in the summer 😕

Erica

indeed. we are chemicals

Meh

Haha. Eeeevery food, and everything else in the world is chemicals.

Shannon Davis

oh god please YES

Agnès Denie

Love this one and all the regular episodes- thanks! Also I worked for Whole Foods for years before starting my own business, and would love to hear you guys do an episode about WFM. I always learn, always laugh with maintenance phase- the best combo!💜

Shannon Guthrie

In love with every episode - can we get an episode on the myth of food addiction next, pretty please!

Cordelia Reagan

Tiny repeating machine is the funniest joke ever 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Michelle Keller

I’m loving the 10,000 steps episode. I was reminded just this weekend of how ridiculous it is because my Apple watch complemented me on getting more than double my recommended activity for the day but then chided me for not getting enough steps on that same day.

Kristen North

How to be fine did something on her on their podcast

Shanda Wells

Have you guys seen the controversy with Really Very Crunchy? I'm so intrigued and I am finding it hard to decipher what exactly is going on.

Shanda Wells

Love the show! When do we get to talk about Whole30?

Emma B. Dalton

I had the same thought

Jill P

Agreed! I'd love to hear maintenance phase's take on the whole genre of fatphobic British reality TV. Super Size vs. Super Skinny is a truly rich text

Molly Tavella

PLEASE do an episode on that stupid "the doctors” show.

Lo Halkett

Can you do an episode on the British TV Show Secret Eaters? I think that could be a really interesting episode from you two!

BennyTheSquid

Oh no :(

Melody

I love your banter and listening to you keeps me out of restriction in a fun way. I started slipping into eating disorder when i was about 12 reading my mom's Prevention magazines and read Jethro Kloss. I became anorexic, thought I discovered bulimia, then just constantly restricted until very recently. I'm 59. At one time i was convinced I could "heal my thyroid" with coconut oil. Maybe you could do a show about that? Thanks, Lisa

Lisa Gaunky

One of my other favorite podcasts, The Skeptics Guide to the Universe, used a quote that Michael said on MP as their final quote. It was like when worlds collide for me since they are such different podcasts.

Davida Fernandez

Do you remember brown fat? There was a moment where all anyone in the weight loss industry could talk about was brown fat.

Davida Fernandez

Could you do an episode on MyFitnessPal?

CE

Thanks so much for another fab episode! As an Aussie, I do everything I can so ignore this dickhead, so you are a great way to digest his antics in a fun way. Just wanted to mention that I hink that what Joel Salatin was referring to re farm animals helping with climate change was Regenerative Agriculture. I'm just aware of it because I worked at a government environmental organisation that was finding on-farm trials around it because of its role in carbon sequestration. Your mate Joel Salatin is an advocate for it, but despite his reputation, from what the scientists I worked with said, this farming method does have some promise, hence the research.

Amanda

Looove Yoink Chunk

Lucy

I’d love an episode on intermittent fasting I’ve had so many people try and push that on me

Ellen James

Love you guys!

Julie Divakova

Listening to today's episode of My Favorite Murder and Karen gives you guys a major shout-out. Get ready to blow up even more than you already have, because she just raved about how smart and awesome you guys are to their millions of global listeners!

Heather Bethards

They lost me on Apple subscription to be here now!!!

Peach Tea Em

i think it's really problematic when medically supervised interventions are appropriated by grifters. Same with poo transplants, good for a subset of people but dangerous for others and should be medically supervised

Meh

Just a note on the Keto diet for epilepsy, it’s extreme, it’s not low carb, high protein, it’s almost no carb (max 30gm a day from memory), moderate protein and very high fat. It’s quite different from the standard Paelo/Keto for weight loss and has no wriggle room. Patients are medically supervised, it’s very strict. It is also not a cure all, it only works for a subset of patients. I earned my ban from Pete Evan’s now defunct Facebook page for reaching out to help a distressed mother who had a child with intractable epilepsy who had been told that Keto and medical cannabis would not be an effective form of treatment for her child. Pete of course was saying “ignore the doctors”. I had experience through my nephew who has intractable epilepsy for whom this diet and MC did not work.

Emma Wilton

As an Australian living in the US, I could not believe how much sugar is added to everything in this country. Everything is so sweet, either from artificial sweeteners or sugar but just under other names.

Meh

From the latest episode on sugar: it’s pronounced AHGAEVE 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Michelle Keller

This ep ended too soon! Did the weed whacker come back? I want more, please!

Elisabeth Handler

I second this. But also *gillian mckeith*

Liv

Pleeeease do Michael Mosley one day! UK based listener here and he gives me bad vibes

Imogen L

I'd love to see a future episode on Jason Fung, his book the The Obesity Code basically just promotes anorexia as a diet

SpryKnits

I really feel for poor Abby. Her parents couldn’t figure out her diet was fucked when she required regular laxatives?!

Margaret Casey

This episode is getting me through the rest of my workday. Hearing how batshit crazy all of these folks are helps me stay off of the eating disorder train. For a future episode, do you think you could look up Brooke Shields' diet book that she talks about in the "Pretty Baby" docuseries and maybe compare it with Elizabeth Taylor's book? Both women are beauty icons with different public personas, but they seem to have some interesting parallels.

Srsly Awkward

maybe a future eps. i have been watching dance moms because im trash and need a show to just marinate to lol. i was blown away by all of the fatphobia towards abby (who sucks for obvious reasons) but it made me so upset to see all of the insults towards her being about her fatness. such a bummer element of the show besides the blatant emotional abuse towards kids. Anyway, not watching anymore…

Zoey Vagner

I’m so fucking mad about this. The point that y’all made about how the potential damage that this kind of thing can do in terms of not seeking actual medical care is so fucking real. My former best friend has brain cancer and it not treating it because she’s so sure that keto and cannabis oil are going to cure her.

Samantha Polizzi

They completely ignore the very strong genetic factor in developing T2.

Meh

I'm glad I'm not the only one, because I picture Pete Davidson EVERY TIME.

Jamie K.

I get angry every time one of these wellness w*nkers targets someone with T2 diabetes. I have it; it's hard, you're vulnerable to anyone who says they can cure it 🥺. No consideration of possibly causing EDs or possible past EDs. Will be forever grateful for you guys debunking weirdos like Pete.

Lauren W

If he was hosting bar trivia and gave up gluten, he probably also stopped drinking beer! Cutting out a few pints a week would probably make you less bloated and sluggish, any supposed gluten intolerance aside. Also, I have a good friend with celiac disease and people going gluten free for trendy reasons was one of her pet peeves. When it became a fad, she felt like a lot of people didn't take her diagnosed allergy seriously.

Allie L.

This episode reminded me so viscerally of a conversation with former acquaintance who was (probably still is) really into all the worst wellness takes. Setting: When everyone was gluten free for no reason at all. In response to my suggestion that people should not fake food allergies or legit physical intolerance of ingredients because they do not like an ingredient, and unless you have said medical issue, gluten likely will not harm you, she was very put out. Why? Well, she was certain I was wrong because her husband stopped eating gluten and lost his belly bloat and icky feeling evening sluggishness. I pointed out that her husband hosted bar trivia several nights a week as his second or third job and giving up gluten meant by necessity he was also likely no longer eating greasy, fried pub food for dinner most nights a week. And so the reduced bloat and sluggishness likely had more to do with reducing his intake of the fried/greasy/heavy meals that make a lot of people feel a bit blergh. This was of course the wrong answer. It was the flour all along (sarcasm font). She was also anti-vax, had an entire ‘baby shower’ dedicated to people doing shit like rubbing her feet and cleaning her house, and was in many other ways exhausting, so it was all pretty on par.

Taryn Cooksey

Have you ever considered doing an episode on Vince McMahon? He seems like the right kind of batshit crazy for this show.

Katie Walters

Mmmm, magic pillll 🤓🤤✨

Amanda C.

Revooginating Tshirts when?

M

I worked at a grocery store during the peak of the 2000s Atkins craze and I remember Best Foods mayonnaise (Hellman’s, for the east coasters) suddenly having a label proclaiming that mayonnaise was “As Always, A Low Carb Food”

Rachel Rosing

I have fallen for my fair share of anti-science health nonsense, don't feel bad, it happens to everyone!

Katie Scarpitta

I ALSO DISCOVERED MUSE LIKE THIS

Boum

Have you all heard about Kids Eat In Color? They’re a resource for parents and caregivers on the topic of feeding children. I’ve been thinking so much about you all as they’ve been releasing their position on the new AAP guidelines for child weight-loss. It’s so encouraging! They’ve been posting lots on Instagram if you’re interested in seeing what’s being shared. Btw, someone asked if she would be interested in being on Maintenance Phase and she said she’d love to if you’d have her but that’s not exactly your style of podcast 😊

Liz Larson

There have been a few sunscreens that have been recalled due to trace amounts of benzene being found in its formula. I think that's all the ones that are aerosol sprays, though. Sunscreen is still better than nothing, but I'm sure that recall just absolutely fed into the conspiracy theories..

Emilie Miranda Crouse

True, but I think we can safely say that when people talk about chemicals they are talking about ones that are known carcinogens. To me that sort of statement down plays real issues just at much as people like Pete acting like random things are bad like stuff in lettuce or whatever.

heathermama7

You're Wrong About recently covered this!

acw1

Giving big "I'm not a therapist, I'm a therapy horse, and Doctor is my first name" energy.

Christopher Marsland

When you first started talking about Pete Evans, for a second i was like…isn’t that the guy from SNL? Now i can only picture Pete Davidson in my head during this episode 👍🏽

claudia supplee

Love your show! A great one for you to cover would be Mama Cass and the ham sandwich. This rumour of her dying from one feels incredibly fat phobic to me so would be good to debunk ❤️🙏🏼

Tessa Calogaras

I think Pete's behind the retro curve my brother had and ditched his pre-pandemic

Ellen

But will it put me into Peteosis?

Anne Tegtmeier

YES - second this!

Ember

We should absolutely be labelling for certified gluten free to help those with celiac navigate safely through the maze of products that y'all can have. But for most of these labels these days it's just jumping on the bandwagon it feels like. It's crossed the line from when it's common sense and helpful to just insane. Why would grapes (or any fruit) be in danger of containing gluten in the first place?

Suzan Lemont

Yeah, like all human cells feed on sugar too. That's why our body breaks down macrobutrients like fat into sugar. It's a very weird take.

Naomi

I would love a Jason Fung episode. He does a lot on intermittent fasting too, which I don't think you've discussed. Lots of facile arguments in the clips I've seen of him.

Naomi

Speaking of Dr. Jason Fung, I'm requesting an episode on him and his fasting empire, which includes his books The Obesity Code, The Diabetes Code, and The Complete Guide to Fasting. From what I can tell, he must be making a ton of money on subscriptions/memberships, fasting consultations/coaching, and fasting retreats.

Leslie Hall

Here with a request! Watch party of Zac Efron’s series on Netflix, “Down to Earth.” I’m sure y’all could give such good background on the guy he travels with - Darin Olien. Love your takes!

Lauren Joca

LMFAO they definitely call it “equine facilitated learning” because they’re legally prohibited from calling it equine therapy

Virginia Smith

It’s always interesting that the right is so in favor of unfettered “free speech” but here in Alabama educators may not be able to make crazy statements like “the civil war was about slavery” and don’t get me started about Florida!

Kathryn Johnson

REVUJENATING T SHIRTS PLEASE

Annalise De Young

Remember when Mamamia fat shamed Roxane Gay so badly she vowed never to come back to Australia? https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jun/13/roxane-gay-labels-mamamia-cruel-and-humiliating-will-she-fit-into-the-office-lift

Emily Pert

My understanding was that it's a last resort i.e.. child has not responded to various anti seizure meds

Meh

I never watched MKR but agree re Mammamia, but also, it's really hard to get decent news sources in Aus

Meh

I one time saw a “gluten free!” Label on bacon 😂 I cracked up. Admittedly, one of my favorite aunts has celiacs so I maybe grew up being a little more aware then most people of what gluten is and what it’s in.

Hannah Smith

I see your Sweet Fancy Jesus and raise you Sweet Chocolate Christ (my personal favorite) 😂

TenaciousB

We defs punch well above our weight.

Erin King

I’m only 5min in and already have thoughts! As an Australian, I must stress that Pete was never the beloved judge on My Kitchen Rules, that was Manu Feildel by far. And MamaMia is also a grifty “feminist” “news” site so would take anything from there with a very large grain of Himalayan salt.

Erin King

wow thanks for explaining that! I used to wonder why they would put GF on seemingly obvious things like bottled water, but that makes so much sense!

peachpies

I love it the Australian content, even though I should be embarrassed by how often my country comes up on your podcast.

Sophie Milne

The Abigail story 😭 I'm parent to 2 autistic kids, likely autistic myself, and the way some parents talk about their autistic kids, and belittle who they are as an autistic person, right in front of their faces fucking infuriates me. Adding fat shaming to that mix and 🤬 Admittedly, early on in my parenting, I shortly fell for the "sunscreen is bad" schtick. I quickly realized the error of my ways though.

Spacey Stacey

Mumblecore what is mumblecore I just busted up laughing already!!!

Rachelle Stallard

This is EPIC 💜💚💛

Sam Stone

Yes, it also usually involves very specific grassland environments - where I live in the UK is chalk downs, which is one of those specific grasslands. However it also is part of a whole conversation about different types of carbon sinks, many of which will involve rewilding and reducing agricultural use in non-grassland environments.

Sebastian Constable

Revujinating 💋

Liv

Keto Pete-O?

Chelsea

My kid was diagnosed with epilepsy at age 3 so the part about Abigail broke my heart. My kid's neurologist made it very clear that Keto's benefits for any seizure reduction would not outweigh the nutritional benefits of a balanced diet. It's so hard to watch your young child go through a chronic illness and it's easy to look for things to magically cure them. The best thing a parent can do is get grounded in reality of a diagnosis, advocate for their kids, and make sure the kid know you love them no matter what and help them navigate the challenges of a chronicle illness or disability. Living in fantasy land hurts you and more importantly your kid.

Jessica Brown

This episode isn’t coming into my RSS feed?!!

Sheridan Howe

love you both so much! one note on gluten labeling at grocery stores: as someone with celiac it's INCREDIBLY helpful when yogurts and other "simple" things label if it's gluten-free (with the little official badge especially), because that means there are no gluten contaminants within ingredients like "natural flavors", or no wheat ingredients in a flavor like "strawberry cheesecake". it also means there hasn't been any cross-contamination with gluten-containing items during the harvesting or manufacturing process (oats are a great example). staying contaminant-free is SO much easier if companies will have their products tested and get that little badge, even if it seems like overkill to others. appreciate you both <3

Iren Raye

You two always make me laugh, even though the subject matter is so sad and dark. Thank you.

Faith

Well, better than most "newstainment" offered by Rupert

Meh

Sweet fancy Jesus 😂 my new favorite curse

Sara Turnbull

You could change him.

Cate Kneale

ohhhh the kid stuff kills me :(

Shanda Wells

For all his faults, Pete Evans is a smokeshow and that mullet is absolutely making me rearrange my F*ck, Marry, K*ll roster. Damn.

Desiree Leadbetter

Omg, I can't wait to listen, but I have to because if I listen without Tom he'll get mad 😅 Thanks for making awesome podcasts that we can listen to together, and fuck Pete Evans.

Sandiego

I *have* seen discussions of properly managed grazed grasslands as being a carbon sink rather than an emissions source... but that's usually in the context of the US prairie and buffalo. I think it's an interesting idea worth researching but also... definitely not what current cattle ranchers are doing.

Beth Zyglowicz

Chemical sunscreen is a genuine form of sunscreen classification - it means that it contains chemicals that absorb the UV rays, as opposed to physical sunscreens eg zinc oxide that physically block UV rays. Some sunscreens use a combination of both types. 'Chemical' in this sense isn't used pejoratively, it's just a neutral description of how the sunscreen works. Many people prefer chemical sunscreens as they are usually lighter and physical sunscreen often leaves a white cast.

Sebastian Constable

Yes exactly, it's about guaranteeing a lack of gluten contamination and not just a lack of gluten-containing ingredients. Also many non-food products contain wheat and other forms of gluten, eg cosmetic vitamin E is often synthesised from wheat.

Sebastian Constable

Ok, I ADORE you and I enjoyed this bonus ep, but you missed the boat dunking on GF labels on obviously GF foods. Of course yogurt *should* br GF, but there are so many places that gluten sneaks into processed foods via cross-contamination. A GF label is a legally enforceable statement that the product is below the legal threshold for gluten cross-contamination and is safe for those of us with celiac to eat. I love seeing it on every fucking thing, however silly it seems to other people. There are places in the world where fresh produce is treated with a wheat-based product. Want to tell me your apples are GF? I will smile and say thanks. 😘

Melanie Schlosser

Spoilers, technically it's ALL chemicals, the whole world.

Meghan Weber

The sunscreen conspiracy has a far reach! I first encountered it in the comments section of a NYT article a few years ago where several comments (with lots and lots of 'recommends') were advocating that wearing sunscreen was worse than putting nothing on and that sunscreen did not prevent skin cancer. Truly a bonkers position!

Lauren Luther

Yes!

Jenn

The commercial to the clip was a 3-minute long video about a new "fat dissolving loophole" that promised significant weight loss without regard to food or exercise, which is also a secret from a far-away Vietnamese village that modern execs don't want you to know about since it will hamper profits. It was a Maintenance Phase goldmine!

Jane

yay new episode!!! have you guys considered possibly doing an ozempic episode at all?

Shelbey Deegan

“We’re not going anti insulin” 😂

Sara Lewis

It’s very upsetting how popular mullets are in Australia now, hopefully Pete having one ushers in the death of this era haha

Pip

I know we’re all sick to death of Gwyneth coverage, but I’d love to hear epis on GP cronies. Like the grifter interviewing her Dr Will Cole?! 🤮 Or Shiva Rose 🥀 love you both so much.

Meg Trupp

“Sweet, fancy Jesus” — another great Aubrey-ism

Rhiannon

lol As someone with Celiac, I'm all for jumping on the wheat hate bandwagon - yes, let's go! 🤸‍♀️- but I don't eat any and I'm still fat AF, so I find their claims about it being "the perfect obesogen" very amusing. 😄

Zefora

these retreats give me 'nine perfect strangers'

caught in a respect blizzard

the idea of the transcript saying “Oh sweet fancy Jesus” gives me life

Jessica Parant

speaking of fasting cures, criminal podcast just dropped an interesting episode about an early american wellness grifter you should "enjoy.". https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-212-the-fasting-cure-3-24-2023

Ron

I'm so sick of the "cancer feeds on sugar" (and by extension if you're the imitable Medical Medium and that ilk, viruses feed on sugar and other 'poisons' like eggs, dairy etc.) b.s.! Here's an excellent and really digestible article that explains super complex physical processes involving sugar and cancer: https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2020/10/20/sugar-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/ Just another example of a grifter trying to go viral and feeding on the vulnerabilities and ignorance of their followers. It's disgusting! Kind of like anyone wearing a mullet these days. LOL

Suzan Lemont

As an Australian, I love that you called Mamamia a "news" website 🤣

Kate McDonell

👏👏👏

Jen B.

SAME!

Lenka Koudelkova

ah, another thing to add to my list of things that supposedly cure autism. most of us don't want to be cured, thanks.

Pris137

A "Boop boop" T-shirt would be a real deep cut for the Patreon supporters

Tim Horsfield

This episode made me Google “Pete evans mullet” so listener beware

Claire Slesinski

Wait... a watch club... does that mean can watch u guys talking...no??

Carly Brindley

OMG, saw the name of the episode and had to stop everything I was doing to listen :D :D

Lenka Koudelkova

Aaah! You spoil us! Always so happy when a new episode drops 😊😊

Haley Mosley


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