Freiren Episode 20 Extended (YT link below)
Added 2024-05-13 01:00:05 +0000 UTCIn Frieren episode 20, Necessary Killing, Frieren and Denken's teams clash in a battle to exchange their best magic...al exposition.
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YouTube Link:
https://youtu.be/XWcRfdWNNd4
Comments
Kraft has definitely put in the work. He's nomadic and hermetic, yes, but he has a long established record of helping people, and he doesn't turn a blind eye. Maybe Serie has that record? If so, we haven't seen any evidence of it. All we've seen so far is Serie curating magic alone, and then using it as a carrot to recruit potentially strong magic users, but then not using that influence to help places in urgent need. If it turns out differently, then I'd be glad to forgive. I tend to be overly judgmental at first.
Ryan
2024-05-15 15:06:28 +0000 UTCI don't think I follow your logic? 1) The Magic Association is only 50 years old, meaning it was established after the death of the Demon King. 2) I mean, Kraft seemingly hasn't contributed to the death of the Demon King either, with his deeds long forgotten due to the passage of time. And Serie is implied to be as old or even older than him. Would you call Kraft callous or cowardly by that same metric?
BirthdayParty
2024-05-15 08:56:16 +0000 UTCI think that's a little bit apples and oranges. 1) Frieren isn't intimately connected with associations that gather intel and assign duties to mages like Serie is. 2) Frieren has walked the walk. She is called 'sousou no Frieren' for a reason, not least of which the killing of the Demon King. If Serie has contributed directly, we have yet to see it. 3) [redacted for spoilers at the end of this season, but philosophy of magic, in a nutshell]
Ryan
2024-05-15 00:56:11 +0000 UTCI mean, while I agree with most of your points, I think your criticisms about Serie not doing more could be equally levelled at Frieren too, no?
BirthdayParty
2024-05-14 11:02:06 +0000 UTCBesides, she's made it pretty clear that she doesn't really give a crap about her own certification. She's just here to give Fern moral support XD.
BirthdayParty
2024-05-14 10:59:37 +0000 UTCThat's true, she can go along with it even without needing it or liking it. After watching some more my feeling about it is that she's so far above it it's not a positive but it's not a negative either. Just something to do that has other possible benefits that are within the range of her choice and control
Alex G
2024-05-14 02:12:18 +0000 UTCWelcome to translation station. Today, our stops include Wirbel, whose name means "whirl" or "vortex". Some kind of swirly thingy. Not really sure what his name gets at. Our second stop for the day is Ehre, whose name means "honor", which may explain the fact that she attacked Fern head-on as Wirbel said.
Josh Bowers
2024-05-14 02:07:56 +0000 UTCI also think of my role as facilitator, not bestower of knowledge. In fact, I think that's true of almost all mentor-like relationships across domains. Apprentices with enough passion, insight, and opportunity will seek out success and obtain it regardless. A coach does not "make" good players, etc., but coaching is also a skill, good coaches exist, and players get better faster with help--with effective facilitation--than they do alone. If I use a video game analogy, I think of teachers as quest givers who give out +EXP buffs. It's true that some especially dedicated individuals could eventually get to max level through endless grinding and figuring out the game themselves, but if there's a good quest hub that gives out level-appropriate tasks, gives tips on how to get them done more effectively, puts you in touch with potential party members, and provides credentials or rewards that help make other tasks easier, then I think most people would use that quest hub as much as possible until they become over-levelled for it. That is my ideal of a good teacher, anyway. In the real world, a very large number of things get in the way of that. It's a cut to some people's ego to be described like some sort of NPC. If that discourages people who need the ego boost from joining teaching as a profession, so be it. The world would be better off for it.
Ryan
2024-05-13 07:19:02 +0000 UTCFrieren just always goes with the flow too. She's not in a hurry to go anywhere and she's not the type of person that would break the law. She originally only wanted Fern to take the test, but Fern forced her to take it too, so they'd have better odds of one of them passing the 1st class exam.
Danny
2024-05-13 07:14:58 +0000 UTChahaha It was very entertaining watching you get triggered by this exam. I agree with you that it's bullshit that frieren even needs to get certified. But it's within her character to just go with the flow and "waste" time. Back when she got thrown in jail is a perfect example. She could have easily resisted being arrested or even broken out of prison but that's not in her character. She follows whatever rules humanity has set even though she could forcefully get her way, and no one would be able to stop her.
Danny
2024-05-13 07:06:50 +0000 UTCThat's a great point about teaching being a skill in itself, outside of the subject in question. It's definitely true that having expertise in an area does not make one a great teacher by default. I very directly know this because (embarrassingly) once upon a time I was one of those people who initially thought, "how hard can it be to teach English, I already speak it!" For all my dissatisfaction about the educational system, there was a lot I liked about being a teacher. The best part for me was the connections I made with the students, but in terms of educational development alone I felt that the best situation was when a student really wanted to learn and used the class and the teacher as a way to expedite their development. In that light, at least when it came to language, I felt the best role I could play was always that of facilitator, as opposed to something like a "giver" of knowledge. For that reason, one of the things that made me somewhat cynical about my role as a teacher is that a student's success or failure often felt predetermined and had little to do with me, except at the margins. I could perhaps slightly speed up or slow down their progress depending on how well I did my job, and maybe help instill interest in the topic, but the dedicated students were / are probably going to get there one way or the other, with or without me.
Alex G
2024-05-13 06:37:02 +0000 UTCVictory for me is inevitable
Alex G
2024-05-13 06:12:23 +0000 UTCThe legendary battle of Goodwin Vs School continues
Jade
2024-05-13 06:08:02 +0000 UTCWirbel and the other cast really weren't explored or explained to us by this point so I understand your confusion. He is already a second class mage, and apart of northern demon fighting corp, which is a way to show that he is really really experienced in combat. He is for sure very adept, kinda like a Marine fighting with people from random non military walks of life. For the 'our generation' part that Denken spoke of, im pretty sure the context is that he meant 'his' generation. The younger, including Richter probably don't encompass the generation that knows all about Frieren so readily.
Gir
2024-05-13 05:36:27 +0000 UTCI do think it depends on the nature of the subject and the overall goal. Even in that scenario though, while I think class is made more enjoyable by discussion, I don't think attendance should be compulsory. It comes back again to what is the goal. If it's to support the school atmosphere and contribute to the education of other students, then discussion is essential. If it's to become a highly literate reader, a competent writer, or to be knowledgeable about a certain body of work, then the effects or importance of discussion in any particular class are somewhat ambiguous. Generally speaking if something has to be made mandatory, it's either there as a remedial safety net for those with poor self management OR it doesn't actually fit what people want or need from the thing. In that sense, it's probably good to have overall for students, but does not fit those who are high achieving and take a high level of self-directedness in their own work. I think for those students, it should be their choice to what extent and how they participate.
Alex G
2024-05-13 05:07:32 +0000 UTCYup! For MHA I'm waiting for dub. For Demon Slayer, I just realized the first episode is out so I will watch it ASAP
Alex G
2024-05-13 05:01:07 +0000 UTC[Oh dear.... I wrote this and then looked at the length. I'm sorry.] I agree that the notion of "testing" Frieren is absurd. I agree that Genau, in literally laughed at the prospect of people dying on his watch, has no redeeming qualities, and yet he is a very realistic portrayal of people in positions of power in education. In fact, I agree with almost everything Alex said about the education system. I think that the education system is (important: "is," not "should be," or "always has been" or "always will be," but just currently "is" in most of the world, including North America and East Asia) all-of-the-above: a means of passing on and imparting diverse skills and knowledge and allowing young people to find out what they are good at and how they can contribute to society, a babysitting service to contain young people from revolting, a gatekeeping caste system designed by elites to keep their clubs exclusive, and a corporation used by some of those elites to redistribute capital in a reverse Robin Hood style from the poor to the already wealthy through exorbitant tuition and fees. (From the inside I think it'd be important to add that, especially at so-called "R1" institutions in the US or Canada, higher education is also largely a structure for funding specialized research and "training" researchers) I'm a part of the system, and I struggle with the ethics of it. I "get in trouble" and I'm told often that I'm acting unwisely when I bring up those concerns openly or advocate for certain changes, but so far it hasn't gotten me fired. My relationship with students is (I sincerely believe) not adversarial. Attendance is worth exactly 0% of my grades, I provide alternative ways of demonstrating content mastery whenever it's logistically feasible, and I see those things as moral imperatives. That said, I come up short in ways I'm aware of and doubtless in many other ways I'm not aware of. The most I can say is that I hear what Alex is saying, I'm happy that other people hear it, and I'm not alone. (Setting aside for a moment the problems that are probably just endemic to capitalism and corporate structures generally) I think one of the biggest causes of the classroom-internal problems like the psych elective is that a truly shockingly small number of professors/upper admin have any real "training" in teaching itself. I say "training" because I don't mean only coursework or formal mentorship per se. Just listening to Alex's rants and coming up with personal answers to them would be a good start, but most people don't even get that. They don't question the system that they (believe they) personally benefited from. The vast majority of my colleagues, even in my department (world languages), never took a class on teaching ethics, or assessment/evaluation, or even language acquisition. It wasn't required for their degrees. In fact, in the vast majority of cases it wasn't even *offered*. That's especially true in Business and STEM. There are very few if any STEM or Business PhD programs that offer any sort of formal training at all on how to teach, on the ethics of teaching, or on evaluation and its critiques. I'm not excusing their ignorance entirely; I admit that they had plenty of opportunities to equip themselves with this knowledge outside of class, and these are questions that I think reasonable people should ask and answer for themselves. Indeed, there are a number of teachers in every discipline who question the system, but they are the minority. Most sincerely believe that the system's priorities surely must have a basis, and that if they truly needed other knowledge, they would have received it. The result is that they're put in charge of classrooms without the skills or presence of mind to do anything other than what was done to them. They see "teaching" as the mere act of relaying information from a sacred source like a textbook, and so their teaching methods are largely just presentational. In this sense, many of them are no better than the well-sourced articles on Wikipedia, and the only thing they do that's more conducive to learning than sending a series of links to open-source tutorials is curating an environment where like-minded students can feed off each other's energy and motivate each other to learn more than they could sustain alone. As Alex said, what makes elite education elite is the students, not the teachers or the facilities. Anyway...... I will cut myself off here. Apologies again, and I am genuinely open to suggestions if there are ways I can make it less terrible that I'm a pawn in the system. Last, and only slightly related: if Serie is in fact this powerful *and* the demon king is already dead, then I think Serie is either callous or cowardly in not doing more to stop things like demons obliterating Stark's village, other demons killing Fern's family, Aura and her lackies terrorizing a city for generations, and so on (unless there truly is much more to demons and their motivations than we've seen so far).
Ryan
2024-05-13 04:48:00 +0000 UTCAnd also it's a side quest. Frieren LOVES side quests lol
Sunny
2024-05-13 04:36:31 +0000 UTCI don't disagree with you totally. But I think one factor is respecting your peers by following the rules. At least in an english degree attendance is important. In class discussions, I'm learning more by everyone showing up and being prepared to discuess. I gaining their perspective and knowledge, listening to what they have to bring to the table, and I'm doing my best to add to their learning also as a peer. I'd be kinda mad if someone did the reading but didn't attend class because they didn't contribute to my learning or have that exchange where they learned from all of us.
Sage
2024-05-13 04:26:30 +0000 UTCSorry if I didn't see this posted elsewhere, are you planning to watch the new seasons of MHA and Demon Slayer?
Tristan
2024-05-13 04:08:47 +0000 UTCYeah it does feel like Fern has the most to gain
Alex G
2024-05-13 03:03:52 +0000 UTCThere’s a good chance that she’s only doing this for Fern’s sake as the obstacles can be seen as a good teaching moment.
bl0odm1st
2024-05-13 03:00:54 +0000 UTCI would even go as far as saying that I’m the product of the education system that I adapted to. The routine of waking up and going to school every day is to prepare you to do the same in the workforce. Show up every day to make someone else money. Hell, the degree I have is essentially just proof showing my employer that I paid to wake up and commit for four years straight. It’s kind of a bleak outlook to have knowing that I’m still the one that agreed to all this and am relatively comfortable and happy doing so.
bl0odm1st
2024-05-13 02:59:17 +0000 UTCI knew the exam arc would be your favorite. I'm interested for when they get more into the theory of magic later.
Douglas Davis
2024-05-13 02:43:10 +0000 UTCYeah I think after seeing the state of the exam and mage society, if Frieren can figure out a way to go there illegally yet harmlessly (basically just avoiding detection by the law) that seems better than doing it legally but with killing.
Alex G
2024-05-13 02:23:16 +0000 UTCYou know, I also love how passionate you were about just forgetting the whole exam thing and dipping when Richter was hellbent on killing the girls. I don't think I've seen any reactors say just ignore the license requirement and go to the northern lands anyway, because yeah you make a good point, who the hell is going to be able to stop Frieren from going. Last time I checked she was one of the people that defeated the demon king, she has no need to play this ridiculous game. Hell, the second demon activity picked up again, they should've personally sent a request to her to make a trip up there to finish the job.
Alter Nate
2024-05-13 02:19:51 +0000 UTCFern is a stone cold killer and I love it
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-05-13 02:11:45 +0000 UTCYeahhhh!!! Get 'em Goodwin, screw the edumacation system. You can do everything right, and still be behind when you come out the other end. Not that it's entirely useless, but god good there is so much bureaucracy meant to inflate the egos of academics who want to maintain an air of elitism.
Alter Nate
2024-05-13 02:04:32 +0000 UTCI'm particularly jaded and love to rant about school 😂 So it's not that NO good can come of it for ANYONE. It's just that as with most things I think it will come down to a combination of awareness, deliberateness, and effort. School as a whole is bizarre, I think part of the difficulty of unpacking it is that it's a lot of things at once. It's complex because it seems to have evolved over time to fit various needs. Like with the human body and I guess programming (?) one resource hack is to use the same thing for multiple benefits. I think there ARE elements of everything I said: - skill and knowledge training - quality control - daycare - status filtering - an authoritative outlet for the disgruntled Etc It's easy to rail on a system and find it's flaws without understanding there are so many unseen benefits that it's practically essential. That said I think really being conscious about the overall goal and being at least somewhat discerning about what does and doesn't matter is really important and IMO not talked about enough
Alex G
2024-05-13 02:00:40 +0000 UTCWirbel is so funny, and such a softie to carry both his teammates when they were tired
Sunny
2024-05-13 01:47:12 +0000 UTCI was fortunate enough to get through schooling playing by all the arbitrary rules to end up on the other side with a STEM degree actually worth something to start a life and family with. I wouldn’t say I needed the complete curriculum to do my day job but that’s the way the system is rigged and how the game goes. Still in schooling debt almost a decade later, yes. Fortunate enough that my family was just well off enough to put me through school but poor enough to also get Pell grants. I say all this just to hear how ridiculous it sounds from an unbiased perspective.
bl0odm1st
2024-05-13 01:44:46 +0000 UTC
