Colin's Last Stand, Episode 35: Google, Diversity, and Silicon Valley's Political Tribalism

Thank you so much!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for your support, and kind words!

Colin Moriarty

Indeed.

Colin Moriarty

One of the greatest honors I get doing this show is when people tell me I'm the "voice of reason." That's high praise, and I appreciate it.

Colin Moriarty

I don't know that anything can sway the extremes. It's going to take overwhelming independent, centrist force to wrest everything away from the polar opposites.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for watching!

Colin Moriarty

My favorite CLS episode yet, well said/done Colin.

A.G.Rowe

It may be more productive to discuss the merits of Damore's (or Colin's) points and ideas than to call him names or link to substance-free "articles" that willfully miss the point he's trying to make

Well said! I have a hard time putting words to my thoughts sometimes and you nailed it! Keep up the great work brother.

jeff rogers

Amen Colin! This world has too much Malcom X and not enough MLK.

Bryan Silva

Bravo, Colin! I could not agree more. I read the 'memo' earlier this week and while I didn't agree with all his points, I wish more people were brave enough to admit it should be more about equality of opportunity and openness to cordial debate rather than the force fed perception that diversity has to be managed in order for it to exist. Thank you as always for being a voice of reason.

Nicole Webb

Cannot agree more Colin, great job, in your opinion what can be done to sway the opinions in the progressive camp? As a liberal it irks me that I cannot say any of this without getting suspicious looks from my peers, but I honestly think that someone has to. Is there no hope to turn this situation around?

LiquidEnder

Brilliant video which is much needed and appreciated.

Michael Francis

Google ultimately has the right to hire and fire as it sees fit, but we should certainly discuss the more systemic norms that lead to these types of situations.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks! Unfortunately, nothing I can do about it now. =D

Colin Moriarty

Thank you! What I take heart in is that people on the left and right are starting to stand together against the extremes. It's happening right before our very eyes.

Colin Moriarty

It's pretty bad right now, and I imagine it stays the same.

Colin Moriarty

I'll have to check this out!

Colin Moriarty

It's certainly not the society I want.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

It sounds to me like you're going to get by just fine on your talents. It's what's in your head that matters, and it seems like you've got it, kid. =)

Colin Moriarty

It makes me scratch my head when I see people that are AGAINST meritocracy. Why would someone be against that?

Colin Moriarty

I'l have to check this out when I get the chance. Thanks for the link!

Colin Moriarty

Wouldn't the real beauty of the situation be if race played no part in your hiring, whatsoever? Idealistic, sure. But we can get there.

Colin Moriarty

That's where he started to lose to me, too, when he started playing psychologist a bit. I don't know what is true and what isn't with his assertions -- I need to carefully go through the citations one day -- but it struck me as kind of left field.

Colin Moriarty

That's what surprised me: It was made out to be something it totally was. Which is pretty much par for the course.

Colin Moriarty

I don't think diversity has no value. I think diversity that comes naturally -- a diversity predicated on ideas, and skillsets, and approaches -- is the most valuable kind. I simply don't believe that Google makes a better product because it focuses first on diversity and second on qualifications. I just don't believe that at all. If you have an eye on diversity as a qualifier, than I think your eye isn't on the ball. But that's just my take. Thank you for your detailed feedback!

Colin Moriarty

Indeed! And if that means the entire staff is black women, so be it. But it should be the best of the best. Not a quota system.

Colin Moriarty

While I agree with the view humans should be judged by their identity as a whole rather than a few traits they were born with, I think many of his specific arguments take a very simplistic view of human biology. Regardless, I don't have a huge issue with the firing. I work at a corporate real estate firm, a field far from left leaning, and I don't think this memo would get by HR there either. It seems pretty inappropriate, in a work environment.

Josh Squires

Hi Colin, great video. But there's a photo of GCHQ in the UK while discussing Silicon Valley tech companies @2:20 -Ross

Ross Arbour

Thought-provoking is a perfect way to describe this episode of CLS. It's so easy to call things like this memo "racist" or a "screed" or whatever else people like to call this stuff. Judge people on their merits, it's as simple as that and it shouldn't be so damn controversial. Also, it's fascinating and scary at the same time how easy it is to cast judgments on issues like this from simply reading headlines. I often read Kotaku, which is under the same umbrella (I think?) as Gizmodo, and reading their coverage is a little sickening. For example: "In the memo, which is the personal opinion of a male Google employee and is titled “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber,” the author argues that women are underrepresented in tech not because they face bias and discrimination in the workplace, but because of inherent psychological differences between men and women." I'm with Colin here, I don't necessarily agree with this guy on all fronts or even most fronts, but why not have an exchange of ideas?

Brent Lindquist

This was probably the most thought provoking episode that I have watched yet, Colin. I am usually someone who leans left on the social political spectrum. However, many things that you said were true. Why is it that we base so much in business on inclusivity? Inclusivity, is at its core, a great idea. However, it is not always one that is good in practice. We may be very well crippling our economy and other lives in the name of acceptance. Your thought on having an application with nothing pertaining to the person other than their qualifications was one that, while I had never considered, is a great idea! I think people underestimate how often if we just take the best of the best that the diversification of business will come into its own. Being someone who typically leans left on social issues, the far left scares me as much as the far right. While the far right will disown anyone who is not of their ilk, the far left will state that everyone is of the same ilk, and if you disagree, then you are no longer welcome by them. I know this is an incredibly grey topic, but it is something that deserves more thought and research than going whole hog, one way or the other. Great episode, Colin! Can't wait to continue seeing what you and all of our friends think!

If you had to guess, do you think it gets worse or better?

Chad Lewis

Are you people all of you upset at this guy getting fired now... This guy is such a douche bag and really makes it very difficult to defend him with whiny privileged statements like this. Is it really all that surprising that he was fired now. <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/10/16127968/fired-google-engineer-compares-high-paid-tech-job-to-soviet-forced-labor" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/10/16127968/fired-google-engineer-compares-high-paid-tech-job-to-soviet-forced-labor</a>

Joshua Chap

If anyone's interested in a perspective of someone who is an expert in gender differences, Jordan Peterson interviewed the author and talked about his thoughts on it. Linked below: <a href="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU</a>

It's disturbing that someone isn't allowed to even question anything anymore without backlash. Is this the society we really want?

Christopher Hopkins

Great stuff as usual!

Steven Camilo

Hi Adam, I will try my best to give you good pointers here but this is only from my own knowledge, there may be better sources. Dr. Jordan Peterson discusses a lot of about some of this in his talks. Notably the Joe Rogan episode with him (~3hrs long but so dense and deep it's worth it) has a good section on some of these traits. Basically it gets into Evolutionary Psychology which in itself is an entire topic of discussion and debate. There may be more concrete sources as well. Further there is going to be equally as much counter information out there so it's hard to tell what is really fact. The claims are made however on an average basis with most men falling one way or the other on things that are neither bad or good. It's like being an introvert or extrovert. It just so happens, and far more likely than not, on the whole men and women might not have a perfect distribution in all these types of categories. This is really the crux of the discussion, the debate, and the reason he was fired. There is also a JP talk directly with him as well that came out a few days ago. You can watch that too.

Awesome

Illuminati Games

Thank you Colin. Your passion, experience, education and fairness really shows here leading to easily your best episode yet. Please keep doing you my friend.

Michael Morris

I'm a senior in college and will be looking for a job in the next year. I have a killer academic resume. I'm the editor in chief of my colleges philosophy journal, I won an essay contest and presented my work to my professors and fellow students, and overall just try to be a good student. But I am also in a wheelchair. I fight pretty hard to make my work stand on its own. I don't want it to be good for a kid in a wheelchair, I just want it to be good. When I go to a job interview, I want my resume to stand on its own and not be another diversity hire. At the same time, I do feel like I could probably inject a new perspective into the workplace because of my disability. There's definitely a happy medium between the two. Diversity of perspective is good, but only so far as the person is also the best candidate for the job. Great video!

Seem to be fine for me. sure your internet connection isnt wonky? Akioms razor and all that.

Quarak

Excellent video Colin, and agree with all your points. I really believe in the idea of Meritocracy and skills/talent rising up above all else. The negative reaction and shame this guy received is truly scary, although sadly not surprising. I don't think we'll see an ideological overhaul within companies like Google for some time though.

Luke Drake

Just to clarify the controversial claim in the memo... The so-called "stereotypes" in the memo are actually long-established facts about population-level sex differences. This means ON AVERAGE (across giant populations) males and females are largely the same but there are subtle differences in preferences, propensities and proclivities. These differences become more exaggerated when societies become more egalitarian because when females can freely choose their pursuits they often choose differently then males. This was examined in Norway, one of the top 5 most equal countries in the world, where they have been unable to achieve "gender parity" in many fields. This documentarian set out to discover why in this episode of a 2011 Norwegian series called "The Gender Equality Paradox": <a href="https://youtu.be/p5LRdW8xw70" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/p5LRdW8xw70</a>

Kush

I certainly agree with Colin in principle that, as a Black man, I'd much rather be hired or have a particular job because I'm very qualified and good at it rather than mostly or entirely for the color of my skin...BUT...in practice, if it becomes a choice between having a good job based on my race or NOT having that same job based on my race, I'm going to go with the former. I'm not going to stand on principle and readily accept flipping burgers for a living just because others either doubt the qualifications of Blacks in general, or simply prefer to hire and work with "their own". Having said that, I don't think the Google employee should ever have been fired for his manifesto. But having said *that*, I also don't think his assessment of the difference between men and women should become the basis for discrimination against women being seen as "rational" based on a perception that they are biologically less fit as a rule. Someone on Twitter made the point that calling Damore's approach "scientific" or "unbiased" is disingenuous unless this method can also be applied to generalizations about men. The example he used was that a "scientific" case could be made that men are far more likely to be disruptive or even a danger in the workplace because men commit 70% or more of all violent crimes. This could almost certainly be tied to our biologically higher levels of testosterone, yet no one would even suggest that otherwise qualified men can't be counted on to control "naturally violent urges" to work successfully with others in a business setting. Twain's comment about "Lies, damn lies and statistics" seems to apply here. Numbers can be both the most accurate mode of assessment and the least accurate depending on who wields them and for what purpose. Caution and vigorous debate are always to be recommended.

Stephen J Seidler

I thought so too until I read this piece by a California labor lawyer: <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/07/it-may-be-illegal-for-google-to-punish-engineer-over-anti-diversity-memo-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/07/it-may-be-illegal-for-google-to-punish-engineer-over-anti-diversity-memo-commentary.html</a>

Kush

Haven't watched the episode, but I did read the Memo. I thought it had a lot of very interesting points. I appreciated the suggestions he had for fostering a better work environment for women, like pair programming and part time work, without resorting to affirmative action, which I've always found a bit clumsy. I think the guy is obviously very critical and thoughtful. That said, I kind've face-palmed when I got to the part where he says that one of the trends between men and women is that women tend to have more neuroticism. When at any point during anyone's work day do any of us think it's appropriate to bring up women's tendency to be neurotic, much less in a memo to the whole company? True or not (I don’t have a strong opinion either way), I can see how that could be seen as a very unconstructive thing to say, and honestly don’t really see what you would wish to do with that information. It strikes me as akin to treating men as a health and safety risk because of their tendency to be more agressive (again, not commenting on whether that’s true). Whether it’s a fireable offense is something I’m unsure about. It can be easy to assume that this was a sudden and swift termination, but who knows if this is the Nth time he was told to stop telling women around the office of their tendency towards neuroticism. Google’s follow up memo really did make them sound interested in encouraging ideological diversity, despite how things turned out. Whether they come out clean is yet to be seen in my opinion. I actually come out of this one frustrated at the guy, because I feel he would have opened up a discussion about this stuff more effectively, if he had just been a bit more tactful. Not a lot, just a bit. I also think the media outlets that reported it as an employee being fired for an anti-diversity memo were really off base, because that’s obviously not what it was, and are just feeding into a very combative narrative. All a bit tricky to navigate for me personally. Some things just don’t seem as black and white as they did to me at first glance. Curious what people think.

Joey Pape

I agree with everything you said. To anyone who has not read the memo, I encourage you to do so. It's very tame and nothing like the regressive left have been claiming.

David Clarke

I think he's allowed to do these things, but not on company time. I don't know the details of how it was distributed but, if you sent that kind of thing at any company, you're likely going to get some sort of discipline for it. - Perhaps if he had done it on his own time, like a blog or something, maybe it would be a different outcome? Just because we're free to question things, doesn't mean the company has to let you do it. -- Just like I always say, freedom of speech, doesn't mean freedom from discipline from where you work. -- I think maybe if he left it at questions it would be one thing, but the things like women can't take the stress of men and such, where I would love to see cited data on that, made the document not worth giving proper attention to. -- We all want to live the dream of hiring the best candidate possible, but we also have to acknowledge that bias exists.

Owen

Hey Colin. Great show. I'm on board with most of what you say, thought I disagree with your idea that diversity has no value. I'm a speech-therapist, and I believe that using books where my minority students see themselves represented is a good thing. I think we should all work towards a world where historical and fictional figures can inspire us to do great things, even if we don't share a single identity with them. I do think students from marginalized groups would currently benefit from seeing themselves represented as scientists instead of princesses or businesspeople instead of basketball players. I too have felt such a boost. I'm a bisexual male and, when I was in college, experienced so little representation of my identity that I had difficulty asserting if I was truly correct about my orientation or not. There are so many instances of gay guys using "bi" as a transitional identity that once, at a college party, the guys in the room (We seem to cluster by default 😅) had an up-or-down hand vote about whether I was gay or bi, which was unanimous barring one abstention. Needless to say, I have treasured characters on TV like Captain Jack Harness or Oberyn Martell (WHO THEY HAAAD TO F$@#ING KILL OFF SOOO SOON) and celebrities like Alan Cumming or Raúl Esparza for making me feel less alone and for giving me hope that--as the idea of male bisexuality permeates the culture--bi guys won't have to suffer what I did. Has diversity/multiculturalism/feminism/queer theory/X identity studies gone off the deep end? Hell yes! But that doesn't mean we can't derive *some* value from them, while fighting off the Orwelling monster they have become. --Ray

I'm glad you tackled this topic. It was very frustrating to watch this unfold. I was convinced as soon as the media picked this up he was going to be fired, deservedly or not. I also don't think the overall message was a bad one. I'd like to know more about where he got some of his information from, namely the part about women being (generally speaking) unable to handle anxiety/stress as well as men. That, at first glance, seems like something that science could easily prove or disprove. Diversity itself isn't inherently bad, as it often brings new ideas to the table. But like you've said many times, diversity for diversity's sake is bad. One would hope that by simply looking at the best people available, diversity naturally falls out of that.

Adam Niksch

I agree with you Colin. My liking of a company has to do with the services they provide, not who provides the services. I would rather the fact that a company hires multi-racial, multi-sexual, multi-gender and multi-religious by accident. I would rather have the best team possible than an sub-par or average team that checks all the boxes on an application.

Alex Ball